My Hollow Earth Theory

[digitalartist]

At the end of the war, something like 200 of their newest submarines were unaccounted for. They had at least 2 different models of flying saucers, atomic weapons, particle beam weapons. They just didn't have time to build enough of them to turn the tide of the war. One American general said if they'd had 6 more months, they could have won the war. KennyB

According to sharkhunters only 5 or 6 subs were missing, not 200.

Flying saucers - NO (Teacup saucers - yes)

Atomic weapons - NO

Particle Beam Weapons - NO

[questionmark]

According to sharkhunters only 5 or 6 subs were missing, not 200.

It was a few more, the following boats have not been found to this day:

U-116 (Okt. 1942 Nordatlantik),

U-122 (21.6.1940 ?)

U-163 (15.3.'43 französische Küste),

U-165 (27.9.'42 in der Biskaya),

U-196 (30.11.'44 südlich Java),

U-242 (3.4.'45 ?),

U-377 (Jan. '44 Atlantik),

U-398 (Mai '45 England),

U-553 (Jan. '43 Mittelatlantik),

U-602 (23.4.'43 ?),

U-647 (3.8.'43 vor England),

U-650 (7.1.'45 westlich England),

U-703 (Sept. '44 Nordmeer),

U-745 (4.2.'45 im Finnbusen),

U-753 (15.5.'43 ?),

U-925 (Sept. '44 ?),

U-972 (Jan. '44 Nordatlantik),

U-1020 (Jan. '45 ?),

U-1226 (28.10.'44 Nordatlantik)

This is the official list of the German Defense Ministry ("Deutschen Dienststelle für die Benachrichtigung der nächsten Angehörigen von Gefallenen der ehemaligen deutschen Wehrmacht") used to notify MIA.

It certainly was not 200, as that would have been about 15% of the German fleet. (In fact the Germans had a lot less U-Boats then supposed by allied intelligence).

Edited September 23, 2009 by questionmark

[Oniomancer]

It was a few more, the following boats have not been found to this day:

U-116 (Okt. 1942 Nordatlantik),

U-122 (21.6.1940 ?)

U-163 (15.3.'43 französische Küste),

U-165 (27.9.'42 in der Biskaya),

U-196 (30.11.'44 südlich Java),

U-242 (3.4.'45 ?),

U-377 (Jan. '44 Atlantik),

U-398 (Mai '45 England),

U-553 (Jan. '43 Mittelatlantik),

U-602 (23.4.'43 ?),

U-647 (3.8.'43 vor England),

U-650 (7.1.'45 westlich England),

U-703 (Sept. '44 Nordmeer),

U-745 (4.2.'45 im Finnbusen),

U-753 (15.5.'43 ?),

U-925 (Sept. '44 ?),

U-972 (Jan. '44 Nordatlantik),

U-1020 (Jan. '45 ?),

U-1226 (28.10.'44 Nordatlantik)

This is the official list of the German Defense Ministry ("Deutschen Dienststelle für die Benachrichtigung der nächsten Angehörigen von Gefallenen der ehemaligen deutschen Wehrmacht") used to notify MIA.

It certainly was not 200, as that would have been about 15% of the German fleet. (In fact the Germans had a lot less U-Boats then supposed by allied intelligence).

Uboat.net lists 52, some uprated after the fact from nonconfirmable claimed kills, but still almost 150 short of the alleged 200. Of those, all were listed as lost during normal combat operations and a significant portion prior to the allied invasion when germany still had the upper hand. Only one was a large transport capable model.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Oniomancer

[KennyB]

Well, it is well known the winners get to write (falsify) the history books.KennyB

[questionmark]

Uboat.net lists 52, some uprated after the fact from nonconfirmable claimed kills, but still almost 150 short of the alleged 200. Of those, all were listed as lost during normal combat operations and a significant portion prior to the allied invasion when germany still had the upper hand. Only one was a large transport capable model.

I doubt that the German MIA list is missing any boat... but lets have it for the sake of the argument: Every year more submarines are found (the latest is the so-called Hitler's lost fleet in the Black Sea).

I don't doubt that at some point there were 50+ MIA boats, but most of them have been accounted for by now.

[digitalartist]

Well, it is well known the winners get to write (falsify) the history books.KennyB

Interesting since much of the information comes out of Germany, you know, the country that lost.

Your comment is most used by those who, when confronted by facts, have no answer for the facts, and to acknowledge the facts would mean to give up the fantasy.

[KennyB]

Swede, check this out. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tierra_hueca/tierrahueca/Chapter1.htm

KennyB

[Swede]

Swede, check this out. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tierra_hueca/tierrahueca/Chapter1.htm

KennyB

Kenny, thanks so much! It's been a long day and I really enjoyed the good laugh! Silliest thing I've seen in quite some time. But thank you for providing an example of your sources. It explains a lot. If you will note, it is extracted from a work written in 1964 by a bit of a crack-pot. I won't even bother to take it apart to any great extent, as it is not worth the time. Just a couple of things - The article heavily quotes a UFO magazine of the time. Have you actually read one of them? Go on E-Bay or such and see if you can get a copy. You will positively crack up! I know, as I am from that era and read a few. Secondly, the claims made about Byrd's travel distances are simply a lie, as both the actual records of the aircraft's capabilities and flight records demonstrate. And that is just for starters...

This is a prime example of the pitfalls encountered when choosing to utilize questionable or out-right fallacious sources to support ones argument. Such actions will naturally expose one to well deserved criticism.

[danydandan]

Swede, check this out. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tierra_hueca/tierrahueca/Chapter1.htm

KennyB

The book, "The Smoky God," describing Olaf Jansen's unusual trip to the hollow interior of the Earth, was published in 1908. It tells about the people who dwell inside the Earth, whom he and his father met during their visit and whose language he learned. He said that they live from 400 to 800 years and are highly advanced in science. They can transmit their thoughts from one to another by certain types of radiations and have sources of power greater than our electricity.

They are the creators of the flying saucers, which are operated by this superior power, drawn from the electromagnetism of the atmosphere. They are twelve or more feet in stature. It is remarkable how this report of a visit to the Earth's interior corresponds with the other described above, yet both were entirely independent of each other. Also the gigantic size of the human beings dwelling in the Earth's interior corresponds to the great size of its animal life, as observed by Admiral Byrd, who, during his 1,700 mile flight beyond the North Pole, observed a strange animal resembling the ancient mammoth.

We shall present later in this book the theory of Marshall Gardner that the mammoths found enclosed in ice, rather than being prehistoric animals, are really huge animals from the Earth's interior who were carried to the surface by rivers and frozen in the ice that was formed by the water that carried them.

Thats from that link you posted

For god sake

Did you even read any of it before you posted

[KennyB]

TheSearcher, I know it's just a waste of time trying to argue with you guys but I like to do it, anyway. You get so worked up. You say you don't believe the Nazis had atomic weapons, huh? Well, I read that before the end of the war, the Nazis loaded a lot of their hi-tech stuff into a type 22 submarine and sent it to Japan. On the way, the war ended and they surrendered to the U.S. Navy. When they unloaded the boat, among other goodies, they found several containers of enriched uranium. Even without the rest of the bomb, you could make some dandy 'dirty bombs' with this. Right? KennyB

[KennyB]

TheSearcher, Yeah, they had some experimental submarines. One being the type 23(?). However, that sub used hydrogen peroxide as a fuel. Even tho it had the best performance than any other sub they had, it was too dangerous. They did have a whole bunch of type 22s, tho, and used them everywhere, even around the Southern tip of South America. They had refueling stations down there. At least 2 of these surrendered to Chile or Argintina several months after the war was over. KennyB

[jaylemurph]

The book, "The Smoky God," describing Olaf Jansen's unusual trip to the hollow interior of the Earth, was published in 1908. It tells about the people who dwell inside the Earth, whom he and his father met during their visit and whose language he learned. He said that they live from 400 to 800 years and are highly advanced in science. They can transmit their thoughts from one to another by certain types of radiations and have sources of power greater than our electricity.

Ahhh, so they have radio and television!

--Jaylemurph

[TheSearcher]

TheSearcher, I know it's just a waste of time trying to argue with you guys but I like to do it, anyway. You get so worked up. You say you don't believe the Nazis had atomic weapons, huh? Well, I read that before the end of the war, the Nazis loaded a lot of their hi-tech stuff into a type 22 submarine and sent it to Japan. On the way, the war ended and they surrendered to the U.S. Navy. When they unloaded the boat, among other goodies, they found several containers of enriched uranium. Even without the rest of the bomb, you could make some dandy 'dirty bombs' with this. Right? KennyB

Kenny, read below again and try to understand what I actually said.

...

Had the Germans had 6 more months, they might have had the atomic bomb as well, that is true, as they were in the last stages of developing it. Would that have influenced the outcome of the war? Most likely yes, as to what degree I'm not sure.

They did not have flying saucers, however, nor did they have particle beams.

...

The bold part, proves that I'm well aware that the Germans could have had an atomic bomb had they had more time, in order to finish it. All the parts and components were there. So yes, on a theoretical side the Germans had the atomic bomb, on a practical side they were still missing key components, like the enriched uranium you mention.

Now, lets examine the term "dirty bomb". The definition you have in mind, is the modern one I wager, which refers to a speculative radiological weapon which combines radioactive material with conventional explosives. Correct?

Now this concept was actually not considered in those early days. Let me explain why, the term "dirty Bomn" has been used historically to refer to certain types of nuclear weapons. Due to the inefficiency of early nuclear weapons, only a small amount of the nuclear material would be consumed during the explosion. Little Boy had an efficiency of only 1.4%. Fat Man, which used a different design and a different fissile material, had an efficiency of 14%. Thus, they tended to disperse large amounts of unused fissile material, and the fission products, which are on average much more dangerous, in the form of nuclear fallout.

During the 1950s, there was considerable debate over whether "clean" bombs could be produced and these were often contrasted with "dirty" bombs. "Clean" bombs were often a stated goal and scientists and administrators said that high-efficiency nuclear weapon design could create explosions which generated almost all of their energy in the form of nuclear fusion, which does not create harmful fission products.

[TheSearcher]

TheSearcher, Yeah, they had some experimental submarines. One being the type 23(?). However, that sub used hydrogen peroxide as a fuel. Even tho it had the best performance than any other sub they had, it was too dangerous. They did have a whole bunch of type 22s, tho, and used them everywhere, even around the Southern tip of South America. They had refueling stations down there. At least 2 of these surrendered to Chile or Argintina several months after the war was over. KennyB

Kenny, there is a stretch between having "some" experimental submarines and the 200 you mention in your previous posts. Questionmark's and Oniomancer's lists are quite explicit, as to the boats that were not found or never reported back.

But from what I understand from your post, you refer to a Walter U-boat, as it was the only boat, with a closed circuit propulsion system driven by hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) in a stabilized form called Perhydrol. It actually was workable, not dangerous, but it turned out to be hard to produce. There were only a limited number of them, none of them combat boats.

When you refer to type 22, I'll go out on a limb and suppose that you talk about Type XXI's? These were indeed produced as a combat boat and quite a few of them were commissioned. Type XXI were elektro boats and actually needed very little refueling for a very long time (as they did have an emergency diesel engine) and had quite some range.

See below a list of the boats produced for the two types.

There where several types of "special" U-boats constructed during the war.

First the "Elektro" boats :

Type XXI :This was the boat that perhaps could have won the war in the Atlantic for the Germans had she been in the water maybe 2 years earlier. She was the first real combat submarine and had much better crew facilities than previous classes, silent underwater, a freezer for food, a shower and a basin, etc. Also a hydraulic torpedo reload system that enabled the commander to reload all 6 tubes in something like 10 minutes. It had 3 times the electrical power of the VIIC, which gave the boat enormous underwater range. It took the boat 3-5 hours to re-charge the batteries with the Schnorchel once every 2-3 days if travelling at moderate 4-8 knots. 118 commissioned U-boats of this type where commissioned : U-2501, U-2502, U-2503, U-2504, U-2505, U-2506, U-2507, U-2508, U-2509, U-2510, U-2511, U-2512, U-2513, U-2514, U-2515, U-2516, U-2517, U-2518, U-2519, U-2520, U-2521, U-2522, U-2523, U-2524, U-2525, U-2526, U-2527, U-2528, U-2529, U-2530, U-2531, U-2533, U-2534, U-2535, U-2536, U-2538, U-2539, U-2540, U-2541, U-2542, U-2543, U-2544, U-2545, U-2546, U-2548, U-2551, U-2552, U-3001, U-3002, U-3003, U-3004, U-3005, U-3006, U-3007, U-3008, U-3009, U-3010, U-3011, U-3012, U-3013, U-3014, U-3015, U-3016, U-3017, U-3018, U-3019, U-3020, U-3021, U-3022, U-3023, U-3024, U-3025, U-3026, U-3027, U-3028, U-3029, U-3030, U-3031, U-3032, U-3033, U-3034, U-3035, U-3037, U-3038, U-3039, U-3040, U-3041, U-3044, U-3501, U-3502, U-3503, U-3504, U-3505, U-3506, U-3507, U-3508, U-3509, U-3510, U-3511, U-3512, U-3513, U-3514, U-3515, U-3516, U-3517, U-3518, U-3519, U-3520, U-3521, U-3522, U-3523, U-3524, U-3525, U-3526, U-3527, U-3528, U-3529 and U-3530.

Type XXIII : A small sized electro patrol boat. The XXIII was so crammed internally that she could only carry two torpedoes and those had to be loaded externally in harbour. The 61 commissioned U-boats of this type are :U-2321, U-2322, U-2323, U-2324, U-2325, U-2326, U-2327, U-2328, U-2329, U-2330, U-2331, U-2332, U-2333, U-2334, U-2335, U-2336, U-2337, U-2338, U-2339, U-2340, U-2341, U-2342, U-2343, U-2344, U-2345, U-2346, U-2347, U-2348, U-2349, U-2350, U-2351, U-2352, U-2353, U-2354, U-2355, U-2356, U-2357, U-2358, U-2359, U-2360, U-2361, U-2362, U-2363, U-2364, U-2365, U-2366, U-2367, U-2368, U-2369, U-2371, U-4701, U-4702, U-4703, U-4704, U-4705, U-4706, U-4707, U-4709, U-4710, U-4711 and U-4712.

Then the "Walter" boats :

Type V80 : This was the first Walter boat, known as V80. It was built in Kiel during 1939-1940 and was driven by one Germaniawerft Walter turbine (20,000rpm). A crew of 4 was needed to operate the vessel which was unarmed and built purely for research purposes. V80 was used for various trials and shattered all underwater speed records at the time when the boat reached 28 knots. V80 was taken out of service at the end of 1942.

Type XVIIA : Also purely an unarmed research boat. Only 4 were ever build, in two different categories. U-792 & U-793 were of the category Wa 201, which was heavier and had a greater range. U-794 & U-795 were of category Wk 202.

Type XVIIB : these were small coastal research vessels. Only 3 were ever in active duty : U-1405, U-1406 and U-1407.

U-1408 through U-1411 (3 boats) were under construction, but were not complete when the war ended.

U-1411 through U-1416 (6 boats) Under construction but were cancelled in 1943 in favour of the XXI.

Type XVIII : On 4 Jan, 1943 contracts were granted for 2 XVIII Walter submarines. These boats (U-796 & U-797) were intended to be the first real combat Atlantic submarines based on the Walter design. These boats were cancelled in favour of the XXI on 28 March 1944.

So you see, I know full well that there were special boats, there were even plans to equip a type XXI, as launch platform for V2 rockets.

[danydandan]

seening as wilis something somthingson was a fiction writer i wouldnt take his work litrally

[KennyB]

TheSearcher, It is obvious you know more about German submarines. So what is our disagreement about them. Is it the number of them unaccounted for? Is it their capacity for transporting large groups of men and material to South America? Or, is it just a matter of crossing some Ts and dotting some Is? I was using the modern definition of 'dirty bomb'. I disagree with you that they didn't have plenty of enriched uranium. They possibily even used a couple of conventional uranium bombs against the Russians. KennyB

[questionmark]

TheSearcher, It is obvious you know more about German submarines. So what is our disagreement about them. Is it the number of them unaccounted for? Is it their capacity for transporting large groups of men and material to South America? Or, is it just a matter of crossing some Ts and dotting some Is? I was using the modern definition of 'dirty bomb'. I disagree with you that they didn't have plenty of enriched uranium. They possibily even used a couple of conventional uranium bombs against the Russians. KennyB

A German battle submarine, such as those on the missing lists above, hardly had any place in it for the crew... never mind putting half a civilization in them. The Milk-Cows (as the cargo and tender subs were called) are all accounted for.

[Oniomancer]

I doubt that the German MIA list is missing any boat... but lets have it for the sake of the argument: Every year more submarines are found (the latest is the so-called Hitler's lost fleet in the Black Sea).

I don't doubt that at some point there were 50+ MIA boats, but most of them have been accounted for by now.

They made a point of saying that the number of MIA boats had actually gone up over time.

As I said, apparently this is from boats that were believed to have been sunk in a particular action, and thus probably on the combat loss lists, but which turned out on later examination not to have been provably involved in that action, hence the uprating. modern navel warfare can be a tricky business when it comes to who did what to who, more so for submarines. It's not unheard of for new info on a vessel's fate to come out 50 years later, as with the black sea fleet.

All in all, it's largely an academic issue. As you said, all the large transports are accounted for and the only MIA boat that even comes close is a single minelayer that doubled as a cargo carrier using it's mine tubes which went missing in 1942.

[TheSearcher]

TheSearcher, It is obvious you know more about German submarines. So what is our disagreement about them. Is it the number of them unaccounted for? Is it their capacity for transporting large groups of men and material to South America? Or, is it just a matter of crossing some Ts and dotting some Is? I was using the modern definition of 'dirty bomb'. I disagree with you that they didn't have plenty of enriched uranium. They possibily even used a couple of conventional uranium bombs against the Russians. KennyB

Questionmark summed it up quite nicely. Their capacity of transporting people and material, is most certainly not large, it's in fact to small for anything you claimed, besides a small item like the enriched uranium.

And yes it's also a matter of crossing T's and dotting some i's, because that is what research is all about. Know the subject you're talking about, lest someone who knows the subject better will point out the impossibilities of your claims. Blaming everything on the big conspiracy, without any proof of any kind, but the wild claims of certain writers, well that's just not good enough.

Us "so-called sceptics" allways have to prove everything, while CT's just allways claim things and never advance any proof.

So soddit, yes I want proof now. Lets start with your claim of conventional uranium bombs used against the Russians and the fact the the Germans had plenty of enriched uranium. I want facts, numbers, provenance of the uranium, believable reports of the detonations of said bombs. Locations of the uranium mines, production specs if possible.

[adrianv]

Matt, I know that Germany was in ruins. Germany had several secret weapons, some in limited operation and several others in production. One thing they had in great numbers was a fleet of the biggest and the best submarines in the world. They already had sub bases in Antartica and land in Argintina. They started using these submarines to get their secret projects out of Germany. They had already sent thousands of slave laborers and equipment down there to build these underground bases. At the end of the war, something like 200 of their newest submarines were unaccounted for. They had at least 2 different models of flying saucers, atomic weapons, particle beam weapons. They just didn't have time to build enough of them to turn the tide of the war. One American general said if they'd had 6 more months, they could have won the war. KennyB

Oh my I'am completely speechless..........

[KennyB]

TheSearcher, Where do you come off demanding I give you information? I've said many times that everthing I post is a "personal opiniom". If you want proof of everything said in a normal discussion kind of way, look it up for yourself. Oh, yeah, Professor, you can give me an F for my grade. Quit making a Federal case out of everything! KennyB

[Hans Dolbrook]

if you believe there is a hollow earth,you must have a hollow head!

[The_Spartan]

TheSearcher, Where do you come off demanding I give you information? I've said many times that everthing I post is a "personal opiniom". If you want proof of everything said in a normal discussion kind of way, look it up for yourself. Oh, yeah, Professor, you can give me an F for my grade. Quit making a Federal case out of everything! KennyB

Boy this is where you should be really examining yourself.

In a forum like this, if you are posting stuff/claims out of the blue, be prepared to be asked for proof/evidence to corroborate your posts/claims.

No, its not the other users business to look up stuff on what you write/claim. its your responsibility to verify your claims.

This is where many posters baulk and get into defensive and fights start.

You already had one in another thread.

all that is asked of you and other similar users is while you post your opinions/claims, you should be ready to prove them too.

Cheers!

[KennyB]

The Spartan, I can't find anywhere in the forum rules that a member is required to submit proof or references to a personal opinion or general conversation. Please tell me the rule number that says I do. KennyB

[KennyB]

openmind1963, I have never said that I believe in 'The hollow Earth theory'. If you think I have, give me the thread and post number. KennyB