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DC09

Muslim Europe

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"Europe becomes more and more a province of Islam, a colony of Islam." So declares Oriana Fallaci in her new book, La Forza della Ragione, or, "The Force of Reason." And the famed Italian journalist is right: Christianity's ancient stronghold of Europe is rapidly giving way to Islam.

Two factors mainly contribute to this world-shaking development.

The hollowing out of Christianity. Europe is increasingly a post-Christian society, one with a diminishing connection to its tradition and its historic values. The numbers of believing, observant Christians has collapsed in the past two generations to the point that some observers call it the "new dark continent." Already, analysts estimate Britain's mosques host more worshippers each week than does the Church of England.

An anemic birth rate. Indigenous Europeans are dying out. Sustaining a population requires each woman on average to bear 2.1 children; in the European Union, the overall rate is one-third short, at 1.5 a woman, and falling. One study finds that, should current population trends continue and immigration cease, today's population of 375 million could decline to 275 million by 2075.To keep its working population even, the E.U. needs 1.6 million immigrants a year; to sustain the present workers-to-retirees ratio requires an astonishing 13.5 million immigrants annually.

Into the void are coming Islam and Muslims. As Christianity falters, Islam is robust, assertive, and ambitious. As Europeans underreproduce at advanced ages, Muslims do so in large numbers while young.

Some 5% of the E.U., or nearly 20 million persons, presently identify themselves as Muslims; should current trends continue, that number will reach 10% by 2020. If non-Muslims flee the new Islamic order, as seems likely, the continent could be majority-Muslim within decades.

When that happens, grand cathedrals will appear as vestiges of a prior civilization — at least until a Saudi style regime transforms them into mosques or a Taliban-like regime blows them up. The great national cultures — Italian, French, English, and others — will likely wither, replaced by a new transnational Muslim identity that merges North African, Turkish, subcontinental, and other elements.

This prediction is hardly new. In 1968, the British politician Enoch Powell gave his famed "rivers of blood" speech in which he warned that in allowing excessive immigration, the United Kingdom was "heaping up its own funeral pyre." (Those words stalled a hitherto promising career.) In 1973, the French writer Jean Raspail published Camp of the Saints, a novel that portrays Europe falling to massive, uncontrolled immigration from the Indian subcontinent. The peaceable transformation of a region from one major civilization to another, now under way, has no precedent in human history, making it easy to ignore such voices.

There is still a chance for the transformation not to play itself out, but the prospects diminish with time. Here are several possible ways it might be stopped:

Changes in Europe that lead to a resurgence of Christian faith, an increase in childbearing, or the cultural assimilation of immigrants; such developments can theoretically occur but what would cause them is hard to imagine.

Muslim modernization. For reasons no one has quite figured out (education of women? abortion on demand? adults too self-absorbed to have children ?), modernity leads to a drastic reduction in the birth rate. Also, were the Muslim world to modernize, the attraction of moving to Europe would diminish.

Immigration from other sources. Latin Americans, being Christian, would more or less permit Europe to keep its historic identity. Hindus and Chinese would increase the diversity of cultures, making it less likely that Islam would dominate.

Current trends suggest Islamization will happen, for Europeans seem to find it too strenuous to have children, stop illegal immigration, or even diversify their sources of immigrants. Instead, they prefer to settle unhappily into civilizational senility.

Europe has simultaneously reached unprecedented heights of prosperity and peacefulness and shown a unique inability to sustain itself. One demographer, Wolfgang Lutz, notes, "Negative momentum has not been experienced on a large scale in world history."

Is it inevitable that the most brilliantly successful society also will be the first in danger of collapse due to a lack of cultural confidence and offspring? Ironically, creating a hugely desirable place to live would seem also to be a recipe for suicide. The human comedy continues.

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Come lol if that isnt ultra right wing scaremongerin I dont know what is lol.

Whered you get that from? lol

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New York Sun.

Right wing? lol

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LOL if its nethin like the Brittish Sun then yeah.

Neway its a lotta crap.

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Actually, I think it's true to an extent...while I certainly don't think it's quite so bad that Islam will be "the majority" in Europe in a few years, it's no secret that in certain parts of the UK we're not allowed to celebrate Christmas in school anymore, and our own beliefs are not being recognised, replaced instead by this ridiculous "multi-culturalism"....which isn't "multi" at all, it's one people's beliefs being replaced with someone else's.

It does terrify me where this country is going to be in a few years, no doubt huh.gif However, people are becoming more aware (and more angry) about the situation, and I have a feeling "political correctness" has likely been stretched as far as it can be before a huge backlash happened...I doubt very much we're going to end up in an "Islamic state", but I do find myself more than slightly unsettled about the sort of place I'm going to be raised my kids in huh.gif

If I have a daughter, is she going to have to go to school covering her head so she doesn't "offend" the Muslim children?

Will Santa, the Easter Bunny, and other traditional holiday figures be eliminated by the time I have kids? (we're already moving in this direction it seems...)

It's rather scary when you think about it blink.gif

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LOL i know what your sayin sera.

Its up to us tell muslims that we'll celebrate what we want when we want.

However it ultra PC whites that make the decisions you prolly find most muslims couldnt care less what we celebrate and how lol.

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It's getting to be like that here in America too...

PC running out of control.

ph34r.gif

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We need to be balanced but we cant have majority's being discriminated against purely because they are the majority.

Its always doogooder student for life uni geeks that dont have a clue about the real world anyway that make these daft rules.

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What's there to "balance"? If these people want to come to our country, why can't they integrate like everyone else? Why on earth should be be forced to compromise our own beliefs in the slightest, in our own country?

I've said it before, but when's the last time you heard about the Chinese community tearing down advertising posters because it "offended their women", or set up their own "government" that they recognised as the only legitimate government in the country?

It's not only the government's promotion of posative discrimination, there's a definate trend in recent years of immigrants flatly refusing to integrate with the country they find here, and wanting to set up their own little island of whatever country they came from...only with social security, free health care, and all the perks they want from our country, but still trying to force their own beliefs over the top of our own.

Alot of the currrent extremists are second generation people who think that, because their parents aren't British, want to "reclaim their heritage"...What they do in their own homes is their business...but these little activists groups can, as far as I'm concerned, p*** off where those beliefs are practiced if they love that culture as much as they do; they can take all the oppression that went with it too.

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Sure there are more Muslims in the UK and the rest of Europe these days.

But, with the exception of ethnic cleansing (what a subtle word for murder), what the hell are we going to do about it?

Suggestions on a postcard please.

Personally, this report smacks of a 'reds under the bed' mentality.

Anyway, the way things are heading, and if you believe the right-wingers, we are all heading for an Islam v The West style world war, so that should sort the problem out one way or another.

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Posted (edited)

This is the type of article that would be supported by the British National Party, a political party that believes Whites are "genetically special." As a non-White person, I would have to disagree. To say that a race, like Arabs or Pakistanis, are not capable of integrating is to say that they are by NATURE different, as in having different brain genes. This thinking parallels the ideas in the notorious book "The Bell Curve" which was a very racial book. These ideas have been proven wrong.

Edited by Transhumanism

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To say that a race, like Arabs or Pakistanis, are not capable of integrating is to say that they are by NATURE different, as in having different brain genes. This thinking parallels the ideas in the notorious book "The Bell Curve" which was a very racial book. These ideas have been proven wrong.

pffft, it suggest no such thing, noone is saying they can't intergrate, the fact is that they don't want to integrate (btw i'm pakistani/australian in case this is of any relevance)

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Posted (edited)

Well then, we are talking about completely new politics: one that states all people must follow only one type of belief and cultural system in a nation. In other words, we all have to practice the same religion, speak the same language, dress the same, enjoy the same recreations, have the same sexual orientation, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, etc. This is in fact what you are saying when using the word "integrate" or "assimilate." So, is this what we want the future to be like?

Where is the balance between individualism and homogeneity? Is there an objective and "fair" way to determine the balance?

My take is different: I am opposed to any further immigration for environmental reasons: overpopulation, a lack of resources, a lack of space, too much air and water polution, etc. I want zero population growth in the United States. Another reason for me is the lowering of wages here because immigrants work for cheap. Plus the very fact that too many unemployed citizens and too few jobs. I don't want new immigrants taking the jobs. I would rather see citizens get them first.

So for these reason, I want to end immigration. But it has nothing to do with race or culture for me.

Edited by Transhumanism

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Well then, we are talking about completely new politics: one that states all people must follow only one type of belief and cultural system in a nation. In other words, we all have to practice the same religion, speak the same language, dress the same, enjoy the same recreations, have the same sexual orientation, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, etc. This is in fact what you are saying when using the word "integrate" or "assimilate." So, is this what we want the future to be like?

Don't have to wait for the future. This is French policy for the last 200 years or so. Nothing new.

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Anyone else slightly worried about this thread?

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I'm not worried. As I stated in another thread, I support academic freedom, even if the ideas oppose my personal beliefs.

If the original post in this thread is invalid, it should be proven so simply by using reason. If not, then that would mean the original post was infact correct.

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Well then, we are talking about completely new politics: one that states all people must follow only one type of belief and cultural system in a nation.

Rubbish; nobody is asking anyone to give up their beliefs. What IS being asked is that we are not forced to give up our own, in our own country, for the sake of this ridiculous concept of multiculturalism.

I'm sick and tired of having to compromise my own beliefs, that have existed in this country for generations, because the government's policy of posative discrimination. I am sick and tired of trying to get into Asda at Easter or Christmas, and finding picket lines outside of people shouting and jeering at everyone who enters, because celebrating our own holidays if offensive to their way of life.

What's being asked is that immigrants respect this is our home, and that nobody has a right to come into another person's home and tell them what to do. Nobody is saying "come here, and you have to convert"....that's not what integration means...what's being said is that, if you come into this country, you respect the native culture. You're free to do whatever you like in your own homes, but Scotland is Scotland...not some neo-Iran.

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If you are saying that Whites should be free to do their own thing as well, I agree. I am opposed to discrimination against Christians or Whites. I don't even support affirmative action, which is legal discrimination against Whites.

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You mind not calling us "whites" so offhandedly? huh.gif If I started talking about "blacks" I doubt alot of people would be very happy huh.gif

Anyway, it's not about "doing our own thing"...it's about losing our national identity, because politicians are jittery about upsetting all the activist groups that are being set up today to "promote" the way of life of imigrants...who exactly is protecting our way of life anymore? huh.gif

In a few years, the government might not even acklowedge holidays like Christmas disgust.gif some schools are already trying to alter things so it isn't celebrated, and is instead replaced with "multicultural day" in January, where instead of santa, the kids get a clown....what the heck is that supposed to be!? What's "diverse and enriching" about that!? It's just tossing our beliefs out of the window to bow to the minority...an even smaller minority of whom even care.

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Do you know of a more scientific term than "White?" But, I don't mind if you talk about Blacks. I am not politically correct, I always use the word "white or black." I don't need word like European-American or African-American.

By discrimination, I mean, if politicians promote the culture of non-Whites, I think they should equally promote the culture of Whites as well.

Regarding religion, I think the government should acknowledge every religion that has a presence in the country. Discriminate against none, support all.

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Calm down people, the white Europeans arent just going to diminish and die out!

I'll bet for every immigrant in the UK, there is at least one Briton living in another country.

European cultures are never going to die out either, and the decline in Christianity doesnt signify the end of humanity, just the modernisation of a society which no longer requires the 'Burn in Fires of Hell' approach to behave themselves.

NB. It might be worth noting that when people from one country settle in a different country, they tend to become exaggerations or a parody of their own culture. take a look at how Italians in Italy seem to be more Italian than italians.

Or how British people adorn themselves with flags etc while on holiday, not how we behave at home.

thats exactly how immigrants act, and it certainly doesnt mean that they are planning on taking over!

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Remember, with the exception of the Celts, most of us Brits were 'foreigners' quite recently too.

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anyway were not becoming a mulsim state. END OFF.

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Don't be so sure... anyone heared of any Byzantines latley?

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Well as you so often comment to me that im not in Israel an dont understand.

Take it from someone who is european. There is no islamic takeover about to happen here.

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