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morrison1976

Scientist admits to study of Roswell debris!

332 posts in this topic

What I don't understand is, why sending soldiers out in the same field were the nuclear strike occoured, that is a suicide mission i will say. Including after they made a nuclear strike at Copenhagen and Southern Jutland too, and then afterwards sending troops in? It does'nt make sense, just another suicide mission. That is madness.

Anyway, seems war plans were made by both sides:

http://www.nrdc.org/...ar/nwarplan.asp

Exposing the U.S. Nuclear War Plan

It is quite interesting read, albeit a bit chilling at times ;)

Indeed, both sides had war plans ready. Regarding sending troops into areas where nuclear and/or chemical weapons had been used, that was a sacrifice that had to be made.

The Soviets estimated casualty rates in excess of 50% for the initial invading Polish and East German forces. The problem was to get the straits through Denmark opened as fast as humanly possible so as not to trap the Soviet Baltic fleet in the Baltic Sea where they could do little good. That therefore entailed to minize any defensive capabilities Denmark might possess and then send in occupation forces to ensure that defensive capabilities were not restored. It would have been a costly affair, but necessary nonetheless.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Yes, I know there were both CIA agents in the Former Soviet Union, and KGB Agents in USA. The part of the Cold War.

I have read your interesting link. Very interesting:

By the way, some more interesting information here:

http://www.php.isn.ethz.ch/collections/coll_polex/piotrowski.cfm?navinfo=16446

The Danish Straits

The Navy was to support the northern wing of the front attacking along the coast. The first exercises of this "teamwork between naval and land forces" were conducted in 1954. At that time, the naval forces were stronger than what was planned for mobilization. This changed in subsequent years, as less investment was made in the navy than in the other armed forces. After the Warsaw Pact was founded in 1955, cooperation was built up with the USSR's Baltic Fleet and the GDR navy. From the early 1960s on, these forces together formed the United Fleet. Its main goals were to dominate the Baltic Sea, cooperate on a landing operation on the Danish isles, and secure free access to the North Sea.

A landing on the Danish coast was prominent in plans being made in 1961-63. Selected for this mission were the Seventh Landing Division ("blue berets") and the Sixth Air-Landing Division ("red berets"). These units were being prepared for an air-sea operational landing on the Danish isles located between Great Belt and Øresund (including Zealand). The Polish divisions would be backed up by the Baltic Fleet, Soviet air-landing and marine units, and a landing regiment of the National People's Army of the GDR.

In 1962-73, Polish shipyards constructed 23 ships intended for the Second Brigade of Landing Ships stationed in Świnoujście. Plans were also made to buttress the landing forces with ships mobilized from the civilian fleet. After gaining control of Zealand, the landing forces could be used to launch an attack on southern Norway, around Oslo.

A Polish Nuclear Attack

"It is desirable to consider (...) nuclear attacks on such centers as Hannover or Brunswick, Kiel and Bremen. The destruction of these cities will likely cause a complete disorganization of political life, the economy, etc. It will significantly influence the creation of panic in areas of nuclear strikes. The exploitation of the effects of strikes by our propaganda may contribute to the spread of panic among enemy armies and populations (...). In order to exclude Denmark from the war as quickly as possible, nuclear strikes should be launched at Esbjerg (an important strategic point in the NATO system) and Roskilde (Zealand Island), and subsequently a widespread special propaganda action aimed at deepening the existing panic should be conducted to warn Denmark's troops and civilian population of the consequences of further resistance and the threat that, in the event of continuation of the war, further atomic strikes will occur."

(Excerpt from a presentation by the commander of the Polish Front, General Zygmunt Duszyński, in 1961)

And a wealth of information here: :)

http://www.php.isn.ethz.ch/index.cfm

Quite chilling stuff, some of it ;)

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Nope. Shape Memory Alloy (SMA) was first discovered in 1932 and research was conducted in what later became Nitinol in 1938, well before Roswell.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited for clarity.

But, according to the sources you and Hazz it does not state that Nitinol were developed in 1938.

Let me point out to you again:

http://en.wikipedia....y_metal#History (Wikipedia link brought up by Hazzard)

History

The first reported steps towards the discovery of the shape memory effect were taken in the 1930s. According to Otsuka and Wayman (1998), A. Ölander discovered the pseudoelastic behavior of the Au-Cd alloy in 1932. Greninger & Mooradian (1938) observed the formation and disappearance of a martensitic phase by decreasing and increasing the temperature of a Cu-Zn alloy. The basic phenomenon of the memory effect governed by the thermoelastic behavior of the martensite phase was widely reported a decade later by Kurdjumov & Khandros (1949) and also by Chang & Read (1951).

The nickel-titanium alloys were first developed in 1962–1963 by the Naval Ordnance Laboratory and commercialized under the trade name Nitinol (an acronym for Nickel Titanium Naval Ordnance Laboratories). Their remarkable properties were discovered by accident. A sample that was bent out of shape many times was presented at a laboratory management meeting. One of the associate technical directors, Dr. David S. Muzzey, decided to see what would happen if the sample was subjected to heat and held his pipe lighter underneath it. To everyone's amazement the sample stretched back to its original shape.

There is another type of S.M.A., called a ferromagnetic shape memory alloy (FSMA), that changes shape under strong magnetic fields. These materials are of particular interest as the magnetic response tends to be faster and more efficient than temperature-induced responses.

Metal alloys are not the only thermally-responsive materials; shape memory polymers have also been developed, and became commercially available in the late 1990s.

As you can see, according to you and Hazz' Wiki-source Nitinol were first discovered in 1963 by Dr. David S. Muzzey. The first reported steps towards the discovery of the shape memory effect were taken in the 1930s. But Wikipedia does not mention about that the effort to make Nitinol was actually started in 1938 at all.

http://americaninvet...mory-metal.html

Memory metal The invention: Known as nitinol, a metal alloy that returns to its original shape, after being deformed, when it is heated to the proper temperature. The person behind the invention: William Buehler (1923- ), an American metallurgist The Alloy with a Memory In 1960, William Buehler developed an alloy that consisted of 53 to 57 percent nickel (by weight) and the balance titanium. This alloy, which is called nitinol, turned out to have remarkable properties. Nitinol is a “memory metal,” which means that, given the proper conditions, objects made of nitinol can be restored to their original shapes even after they have been radically deformed.

But In 1960 (13 years after the Roswell Incident), William Buehler developed same memory metal that return back to it's original shape, and that is 3 years before Dr. David S. Muzzey discovered that.

But since, someone did find out that the development of Nitinol studies actually began just after the Roswell Incident:

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0509/ROSWELL-DEBRIS2.php

The earliest known combination of Titanium and Nickel reported in the scientific literature was in 1939 by two Europeans. However, this crude sample was a "by-product" of research entirely unrelated to the study of Nitinol. Its "memory metal" potential was not sought or noted. The scientists would have been unable to purify Titanium to sufficient levels at that time-and they would not have known about the energy requirement needed to create the "morphing" effect.

The next time that we see the unique combination of Titanium and Nickel emerge in science is by military scientists associated with Naval Intelligence at the US. Naval Ordnance Lab. It was there that Nitinol was "officially" created in the early 1960s. But Nitinol's "official" history –including the date and reasons for discovery- is conflicting. More on this murky history will be detailed in a future article. Recently gained information suggests that it was in fact Battelle's metallurgist and UFO researcher Dr. Howard Cross who "fed" the US Navy information (including the “phase diagram” and details on Titanium processing) that is required to create Nitinol.

Research by this author has confirmed that Nitinol studies actually began at Battelle immediately after the Roswell crash -and not in the early 1960s. And it was Wright Patterson (the base where the crash material was flown) that contracted this secret work.

Are you confused now? :D

If you are not confused then I hope you have understand clearly by now that the Nitinol studies began just after the Roswell Incident.

Edited by Ra_Sun-God

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But, according to the sources you and Hazz it does not state that Nitinol were developed in 1938.

Let me point out to you again:

http://en.wikipedia....y_metal#History (Wikipedia link brought up by Hazzard)

<snip>

While Wiki can be good, one also has to take into account that Wiki articles are written by whoever has an interest in writing about a subject and that is why the references used in any given article are so important.

I suggest you read the report by Frederick Wang, the co-inventor of Nitinol. You can find a PDF file here. It's 5.6MB and 107 pages (or so). You don't need to read it all, but just pieces here and there.

If you look at pp. 1, you will find the history of Nitinol or, rather, the Ti-Ni system.

1938: Wallbaum et. al. starts looking into the Ti-Ni system finding

  • A primary solid solution of titanium in nickel exists with the solubility falling with decreasing temperature.
  • The primary solid solution of titanium in nickel forms a eutectic with a congruent melting intermediate phase, TiNi
  • A eutectic on the titanium-rich side of TiNi is bounded by titanium and nickel with slightly variable composition.

1941: Wallbaum3 extended his previous work into the titanium-rich end of the diagram and discovered Ti2Ni which forms a eutectic with a solid solution of nickel in Beta-titanium

And so on and so on it continues. On pp. 7 you will find that Wang describes the discoveries by Buehler and Wiley and subsequently Wang himself that leads to the trade-marking of Nitinol. The development of Nitinol shows a very linear and continuing line of research until the specific composition called Nitinol was trade-marked. Thus, there are no sudden leaps, no bumps, no sudden great inventions or anything like it. And the Ti-Ni system was not a crude by-product, but a very specific research effort as otherwise you don't write scientific papers about it. And it should be noted that what Buehler and Wiley were actually looking for were alloys resistant to heat for missile warhead cones.

But the fact remains that shape memory alloys themselves have been known since 1932 and that Nitinol has a very well documented history going back well before 1947. That it was trade-marked in 1962 with the name Nitinol has no bearing on it's research history. What matters is the careful analysis of the properties if Ti-Ni alloys and the development production facilities (i.e., getting the purity required) as described in the linked reported. That is the important part, namely the research and development history of the material. It didn't just pop up out of nowhere and it certainly wasn't looked at only after 1947 and Roswell.

Are you confused now? :D

<snip>

Not confused at all, thanks :P

Cheers,

Badeskov

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A lot of new technologies emerged, post-WWII. Heck, transistors, fibre optics, they all trace their roots back to this big industrial expansion. Nitinol is a red herring; what was described by Roswell witnesses has no bearing on it, which has quite different properties. It is possible that this informed research, and perhaps people involved with SMM research could have been consulted as part of a reverse engineering effort.

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Now THAT is a trophy. Screw Bigfoot, Nessie and Sasquatch. :D

:tu:

One of my friends has a Ducati 848, he reckons the people he bought it off swear some well off fellow came and bought one just for that very reason.

Never turned the motor over, just pegs through the axles.

Actually, that is one of the big illusions of the downed ET craft hypothesis in my mind. I don't think the proponents of such really understand the magnitude of the scientific and engineering task it would be to reverse engineer something so alien, so advanced. There seems to be this idea that it can be done by a few bespectacled geeks hidden away somewhere deep under Area 51. Just feed 'em pizza, coke and coffee and out comes a stream of new gadgets based on alien technology.

Naturally, the world doesn't work like that. To undertake something like that new advances in physics, math, propulsion, metallurgy, electronics etc etc would have to be made, requiring the foremost brains of the world collaborating on cracking that nut. We are talking thousands and thousands of people, and people talk. Completely new measurement equipment would have to bade made and so on. Just give a scientist from 1947 an Intel XEON processor. The poor guy wouldn't stand a chance of figuring out what it was without a lot of help and that is only a 60 year span. He would only be able to look at it by destructive testing and thus have no means of probing and prodding it afterwards to see what it actually did. Not that he would be able to before anyways.

However, the biggest argument against this is the Soviet Union. Any scientific endeavor trying to crack the secret of an ET spacecraft would most certainly be discovered by the KGB some years after it happened, say the early to mid 1950s. Think how they would react if there was even the smallest chance of Roswell actually happened as proposed. The Soviets would then be looking at a United States of America with technology at their hands that could possibly render the entire Soviet weapons arsenal, including their small nuclear stockpile at the time, completely and utterly useless if the US could extract ET tech. What would the Soviets have done? They would most likely have tried the UN and requested that the US shared the tech. If not, well, then the Soviets were looking at their rapid demise and given the Soviet War plans released in the 1990s, I think it is a safe assumption to make that they would have invaded Europe and most likely engaged the US in war.

Either way, we would know.

Cheers,

Badeskov

I have to agree, very well put. I would have thought we would see some gadgets, like perhaps gauges, or new proposals for E=MC2, but as you point out, such would not get down to the general public in any case. The Soviet connection is one I also strongly agree on, many experts consider the KGB to have been the world's most effective intelligence agency in its time, even currently the entire world is starting to get fragmented with such super powers, China currently would be a force that would not lie down whilst the US has interstellar traffic happening. There is so much more than the US to consider in such global questions, but rarely does the magnitude get recognized.

Cheers.

Edited by psyche101

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Oh, I see you don't know much about Moore and Shandera. Let me tell you something about them. They miscredittet Marcel on purpose by putting their words into his mouth.

And peaking of misleading. I tell you what, Moore and Shandera tried to mislead what Marcel really said. And they did that succesfully at a period of time.

You see that do you?

You need glasses my friend.

I know who Moore and Shandera are, for goodness sakes fellow, is this some type of attempt to annoy me? Why would you say that?

You would well know by now that Shandera seems to have a good reason for confusion. After this interview

The initials ‘JHS’ stand for Jamie H. Shandera and the initials ‘GTD’ denote Gen.Thomas DuBose:

JHS: There are two researchers (Don Schmitt and Kevin Randle) who are presently saying that the debris in General Ramey’s office had been swtiched and that you men had a weather balloon there.

GTD: Oh Bull! That material was never switched!

JHS: So what you’re saying is that the material in General Ramey’s office was the actual debris brought from Roswell?

GTD: That’s absolutely right.

JHS: Could General Ramey or someone else have ordered a switch without you knowing it?

GTD: I have damn good eyesight - well, it was better back then than it is now - and I was there, and I had charge of that material, and it was never switched

or this one

JHS: Now as to this Roswell business - let’s begin with when Jesse Marcel came

over from Roswell with this material.

GTD: Yes. Well, as best I can recall, I met the airplane that came in from Roswell and I took a canvas mail pouch with this debris over to General Ramey’s office...

JHS: Did you see additional debris on the plane?

GTD: No, I was just handed this canvas mail pouch with the stuff in it, and headed straight to Roger’s [General Ramey’s] office. [Emphasis added.]

JHS: Now again, these other researchers (Schmitt, Randle and Friedman) are saying that you guys switched this stuff and that this stuff was some kind of a weather balloon, and that you did that to fool the press and the press never saw the real stuff.

GTD: Nah.

One would expect some confusion? However, calling Shandera sloppy in the face of Friedmans farce is truly a case of the pot calling the kettle back. He may well be a dodgy investigator, there is one in every crowd, however, I fail to see how that affects the known facts? Deciding Roswell is an ETH incident based on a personal opinion of Shandera is not an evaluation, it is personal preference.

Now if we could approach the initial question?

How has Moore and Shandera come into the mix?

Why do they come into the conversation every time Marcel is shown to have confused facts?

The references I had outlined were not in any way connected to Moore or Shandera.

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Is big foot your picture version of an ET from outer space? :D Seems there are something wrong with your brain, sorry I mentioned the word "wrong". Does a big foot look like a Grey alien to you? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, is it really difficult for you to see the difference between big foot and a Grey Alien? I'm truly sorry if it is so difficult for you, because then you are suffering of some sort of a long term disease, and in case you really are suffering of long term disease, then I will of course stop making fun of you.

As you seem to have missed the joke, there is as much evidence Bigfoot pilots UFO's as there is an Alien crash landed in Roswell.

The Skinwalker Ranch in Utah considers this a very possible connection.

The National Institute for Discovery Sciences, based in Las Vegas, Nevada, conducts ongoing research at several locations in the United States, one in Utah that is referred to as the Skinwalker Ranch. Dr. Colm Kelleher, PhD, a biochemist and molecular biologist, was one of the lead researchers at this location. In his book Hunt for the Skinwalker: Science Confronts the Unexplained at a Remote Ranch in Utah, he reports that numerous anomalies have been recorded at the ranch. These included visits to the area by numerous types of UFO-like and Extraterrestrial phenomena, such as lights in the sky that alternately flew through the sky and hovered, giving the impression of intelligent control and operating much like an aerial surveillance and observation platform, as well as actual sightings of saucer-like craft and entities. Sightings of a creature closely resembling the Sasquatch was also observed and monitored at the ranch. Both Extraterrestrials and the Sasquatch were observed appearing through portals in the air. Witnesses have reported that they have sometimes had glimpses through the portals of landscapes different than that in which the witness stood, appearing almost alien in origin. These anomalies have been recorded extensively by research scientists.

With both anomalies, Extraterrestrials and the Sasquatch appearing at the same location in much the same manner, a direct connection between the two is naturally and allowably assumed. Is Sasquatch also an alien entity, an Extraterrestrial? Is it considered wildlife from another planet or dimension? Is it a "pet" of Extraterrestrials, being "let out to exercise", much the same way Humans allow their pet dogs and cats out at night? Naturally, we have no answers at this time, only speculation based on circumstantial evidence. Making this connection, though, makes for some interesting thought!

LINK

This hypothesis actually falls along the lines suggested by Jaques Vallee. A person far more capable of making a coherent hypothesis than anyone involved in the alleged Roswell Incident. And he does not believe that incident involved a UFO, which he said, extremely ironically (considering the Bigfoot refrences), in an interview with Dr. Bob Hieronimus. :lol:

Edited by psyche101

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A lot of new technologies emerged, post-WWII. Heck, transistors, fibre optics, they all trace their roots back to this big industrial expansion. Nitinol is a red herring; what was described by Roswell witnesses has no bearing on it, which has quite different properties. It is possible that this informed research, and perhaps people involved with SMM research could have been consulted as part of a reverse engineering effort.

Zim,

I completely agree with you. I am sure, if there had been a reverse engineering effort somewhere that such people would have been consulted, however, to be quite I do not see any obvious leaps in technology anywhere when looking around.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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I have to agree, very well put. I would have thought we would see some gadgets, like perhaps gauges, or new proposals for E=MC2, but as you point out, such would not get down to the general public in any case.

And this is the illusion people that don't really understand science seems to live in. To create the US nuclear bomb, the US initiated the Manhattan project. It was born out of work done in the 1930s by many prominent physicists and engineers. The theory behind the bomb was fairly well known, the required materials well known. How to fabricate them also, more or less. Yet, it took 6 years and 130,000 people to do.

I can't even imagine what it would take to reverse engineer something as advanced as an ET craft that they had no idea of and wouldn't even know how to probe and prod (no, they had no particle drills or scanning electron microscopes at the time to look at nanometer scale structures as we do now). It is clearly a lack of understanding of how science work and how difficult it would be to reverse engineer something so advanced.

Or maybe they really just have it hanging on a wall somewhere. :blink:

;)

The Soviet connection is one I also strongly agree on, many experts consider the KGB to have been the world's most effective intelligence agency in its time, even currently the entire world is starting to get fragmented with such super powers, China currently would be a force that would not lie down whilst the US has interstellar traffic happening. There is so much more than the US to consider in such global questions, but rarely does the magnitude get recognized.

They were indeed considered the foremost intelligence agency in it's time and one can just look at some of their most spectacular successes. However, there is one other angle that I find is rather overlooked. What if a space ship really crashed at Roswell? What would the implications be? I would argue it would add a whole new threat level. Sure, the cold war was bad and the Soviets were most certainly seen as a threat. However, something so advanced as an interstellar spaceship would most likely be seen as an even bigger threat. What if it was the precursor of an ET invasion? That would dwarf the threat the Soviet Union posed at the time immensely and a huge reverse engineering effort would have been initiated to learn as much as possible as fast as possible. And it would most likely have been a shared effort with other countries.

But not only that, I am also convinced that all the efforts on putting up radar and surveillance systems around the Soviet Union to see what they were up to would also have been completely dwarfed by a surveillance effort looking into the sky instead as that would be where ET would be coming from.

So quite frankly, the Roswell myth is simply falling apart from all angles. But that is typically overlooked by the proponents that tend to look at a few things which cannot even be corroborated, whereas the larger implications are not included and pondered at all.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited for clarity.

Edited by badeskov

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As you seem to have missed the joke, there is as much evidence Bigfoot pilots UFO's as there is an Alien crash landed in Roswell.

The Skinwalker Ranch in Utah considers this a very possible connection.

LINK

This hypothesis actually falls along the lines suggested by Jaques Vallee. A person far more capable of making a coherent hypothesis than anyone involved in the alleged Roswell Incident. And he does not believe that incident involved a UFO, which he said, extremely ironically (considering the Bigfoot refrences), in an interview with Dr. Bob Hieronimus. :lol:

As much evidence for Bigfoot pilots UFO's as there is an Alien crash landed in Roswell? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you can't be that serious, are you really?

First, Bigfoot belongs to Cryptozoology area, and not UFO/ET area. Beside, that unreliable link of yours ONLY ask a question something like this "Is Bigfoot Extraterrestrial?", and that means that you can't take that source of yours seriously at all.

Let me show you something from the Cryptozoolgy world:

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/argosy71.htm

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/11754_yeti.html

Moscow explorers discovered a wigwam of a creature unknown to science in the snow-covered forest

Members of the Kosmopoisk association have returned from an expedition to Russia's Kirov Region where they searched for a bigfoot that allegedly lived in that region. Kosmopoisk leader Vadim Chernobrov says the expedition has discovered a den occupied by a mysterious giant and an underground passage dug obviously not by a human.

Ivan Konovalov has been working as a forest warden for 30 years in the Kirov Region. At first, the man did not plan to stay in that region for long, however he had an important meeting in November 1985 and changed his mind. Ivan Konovalov tells about that meeting: "It was snowing on the day when I was walking along the fir wood and suddenly heard snap of twigs. I turned around and saw an awesome creature covered with dark hair that was much taller than me. It smelt strongly. The beast leant against a pine tree and started bending it down to the ground. The tree was rather thick, but it cracked under the creature's burden. Then the creature started breaking the tree against the knee. Its hands were as thick and long as its legs. Quite of a sudden, the creature felt something and turned its "face" to me. I saw two black eyes and the impression at the bottom of the eyes deeply impressed me. I still remember the look of the eyes. Then the creature flung the tree and quickly left. But I stood thunderstruck :P and could not move a finger."

After that awesome meeting the forest warden was anticipating another meeting with the bigfoot. However, the man did not doubt that it was a snowman. Ivan Konovalov thinks the creature unknown to science has some mysterious capabilities resembling hypnosis.

It was only twice that he managed to come across the creature face to face. Another time Ivan Konovalov met with a she-yeti and a baby. They noticed the forest warden and ran deep into the forest emitting sounds resembling dog's barking.

Hunter Vasily Kapustin tells that he has seen numerous footprints of a snowman, but came across the creature only once. A hairy creature attacked a young elk, shouldered it and directed toward the forest. When the yeti saw the hunter it was at first confused, then looked at the man with astonishment, emitted some indistinct sound and rushed into the deep forest. Vasily Kapustin felt as if he stood for 15 minutes and then went toward his village. But when he came home it turned out he had spent about four hours in the forest! He had a headache and felt as if he had a hangover. But the hunter was an abstainer. He made an effort to get back to the place where he came across the yeti and discovered the footprints of an enormous naked foot looking very much like a human foot, but wider and bigger in fact. The snow on the site was spotted with blood of the baby elk obviously. However, it was not clear how the creature managed to escape through the deep forest and broke no branches and left practically no traces.

Vadim Chernobrov, the leader of the expedition tells that hunters are as a rule not talkative men; but they enjoy respect of the local population. Locals do believe that some strange forest creatures exist in fact. Those who have ever come across such creatures are treated as people's heroes there.

The two hunters helped the expedition to search the place. Vadim Chernobrov tells that the group set up a tent camp in a big meadow. "I had many baits that were to help us catch a yeti. On the first night the group was really very tired and did not arrange the baits. The baits remained in my tent. The group put out the fire and appointed a man on duty for the night. When we woke up early in the morning we saw a torn side of my tent as if someone attempted to get inside of the tent. My rucksack stood half a meter away from the torn side of the tent. But the man on duty was on the top of a tall pine tree clutching at branches. The guy had a hatchet, and all branches were cut under his feet. It took us much effort to take him down from the tree. He was white from terror, his hands and legs were trembling and he could hardly speak. In two hours he started crying and said he wanted to go back home. His home was far from the tent camp, however the man was so terror-stricken that he would not stay there."

On the next nights, the group chose more experienced people to be on duty. But they did not see anything scary at all. Baits laid around the tent camp brought no success. However, when members of the expedition went deep into the forest in broad daylight they discovered strange things there: trees broken so neatly as if someone chopped firewood there and incisions on trees made either with teeth or with claws.

It was only once that the expedition was actually rewarded for the persistence: the group discovered a den made of stems of trees in the middle of a forest clearing. The den of five square meters did not resemble people or animal's habitation. Vadim Chernobrov together with some members of the group walked around the den and then decided to get inside.

The floor of the den was laid out with logs and rotten leaves, the walls were strong and did not let the cold wind pass through. There was nobody inside of the den. There was some construction covered with sticks in the middle of the "room". Under the sticks, there was a hole of about one meter in diameter leading deep under the ground. The hole was highly likely very deep as a stone thrown down emitted no sound at all. The expedition decided it was an underground passage. However, the group had no special equipment to come down the passage. They just charted the site to get back to it later.

The leader of the expedition says it is now important to gather many experts, biologists, zoologists and doctors to organize another expedition to the mysterious site in the Kirov Region.

Alexey Rozanov, a correspondent member of the Russian Academy of Sciences Paleontology Institute says that yeti is one of the most mysterious puzzles of present-day science. Opinions still differ whether yeti exists or not. Some people believe there is no documented evidence proving existence of yeti; all photos and videos allegedly showing yeti are falsifications. Others say that yetis are in fact baboons, huge monkeys, and Himalayan bears about two meters tall. There is an opinion that yeti is an offshoot of the primates developing parallel to human beings. At the time when human brain and intellect developed, yeti acquired some extrasensory capabilities. Some researchers believe that people's hairy neighbors can not only hypnotize, but also levitate, become invisible or cure any diseases with a glance. There are even more fantastic hypotheses saying that yetis are wood-goblins, demons or some beings from the parallel world. Unfortunately, there is not single evidence proving any of the fantastic suggestions.

Legends about yeti go back to the antiquity; it was mentioned for the first time about 4 thousand years ago, crypt-zoologist, doctor of biological science Alexander Bayanov tells. More information about yeti appears every year. Japan mountaineers left for the Himalayas in August 2002 to search for yeti; they got back from the expedition absolutely confident that yeti actually existed. The mountaineers brought about ten pictures of yeti footprints taken on the slopes of the Dhaulakhari mountain and told they had seen an apelike creature quickly running about the mountain slopes. There is evidence provided by an American mountain-skier who came across two hairy creatures when he descended from Everest. He says the creatures were neither animals nor humans. The meeting ended like any other story connected with yeti: the creatures suddenly disappeared.

In two months, it was reported from Pakistan that a hairy creature near the settlement of Haripura attacked a 20-year-old native. The creature seized the guy's shoulder and scratched him, but when the native cried, the creature got scared and ran away. Doctors examined the guy's wounds, but could not say what the creature actually was.

A hairy very tall creature was also once seen in Russia near the cities of St.Petersburg and Tomsk. A mummified paw of some ancient animal belonging to none of the known to science species was discovered in Russia's Altai Mountains. Vice-president of the Russian Association of Vet Anatomists Yury Malafeyev took an X-ray photograph of the paw and made a conclusion that it looked very much like a human hand, but covered with red fur and of a bigger size.

Edited by Ra_Sun-God

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As you seem to have missed the joke, there is as much evidence Bigfoot pilots UFO's as there is an Alien crash landed in Roswell.

The Skinwalker Ranch in Utah considers this a very possible connection.

LINK

This hypothesis actually falls along the lines suggested by Jaques Vallee. A person far more capable of making a coherent hypothesis than anyone involved in the alleged Roswell Incident. And he does not believe that incident involved a UFO, which he said, extremely ironically (considering the Bigfoot refrences), in an interview with Dr. Bob Hieronimus. :lol:

Actually I find it funny about this Big Foot vs Extraterrestrial. It just shows that Big Foot sometimes can be mistaken for being an ET :lol:

Interesting link Psyche101 :)

Edited by Ra_Sun-God

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It is quite interesting read, albeit a bit chilling at times ;)

Indeed, both sides had war plans ready. Regarding sending troops into areas where nuclear and/or chemical weapons had been used, that was a sacrifice that had to be made.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Both war plans never came to real life.

It's nice there still is peace. Well, except that Vladimir Putin some years ago was mad at the Bush Administration's missile defending shield plan on Poland and the Czeck Republic. I do remember Putin's eyes while he spoked to the crowd, his eyes looked very "War"-like mad (adressed to the United States of America). Yah, Bush Administration's missile defending shield plan near the Russian border was (still is?) not so popular in Russia, since the Bush Administration did not wanted the Russians to participate in the US missile defending shield plan. It could easily provoke the Russian Bear. But since Barrack Obama allow the Russians to participate in these missile defending shield plan, the Russians are more confident. I know that the Bush Administration tried to convince the Russians that the "Shield" only use is to shoot down Iran's nuclear missiles, but that was only by words.

Well, now to the less New Cold War situations:

Yeltsin's humor make Bill Clinton laugh

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/07/obama-putin-hold-private-_n_226778.html

Edited by Ra_Sun-God

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I suggest you read the war plans before stating something you know absolutely nothing about. Just to pique your curiousity, then the plans for Denmark were nuclear and chemical first strikes over Copenhagen, Southern Jutland and strategic defense points (like Stevns fortet). That was then to be followed up by a land invasion by East German forces through Southern Jutland and an invasion by East German and Polish naval forces to capture the remains of Copenhagen and to ensure the straits were open for the Soviet Baltic fleets.

Ah, the Nelson touch, updated, then.

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What I don't understand is, why sending soldiers out in the same field were the nuclear strike occoured, that is a suicide mission i will say. Including after they made a nuclear strike at Copenhagen and Southern Jutland too, and then afterwards sending troops in? It does'nt make sense, just another suicide mission. That is madness.

Seems pretty much standard Russian procedure since the days of the Peter the Great.

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Ah, the Nelson touch, updated, then.

Ah, that would be correct, 747 ;)

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Both war plans never came to real life.

It's nice there still is peace. Well, except that Vladimir Putin some years ago was mad at the Bush Administration's missile defending shield plan on Poland and the Czeck Republic. I do remember Putin's eyes while he spoked to the crowd, his eyes looked very "War"-like mad (adressed to the United States of America). Yah, Bush Administration's missile defending shield plan near the Russian border was not a good idea, otherwise it would easily provoke the Russian Bear.

Well, now to the less New Cold War situations:

Yeltsin's humor make Bill Clinton laugh

http://www.huffingto...-_n_226778.html

Yes, luckily it never happened - that would have been nasty.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Seems pretty much standard Russian procedure since the days of the Peter the Great.

Standard Russian procedure to send out soldiers to the same places were the nuclear strikes occoured? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that is so unrealistic. No, the Russians would never use nuclear strikes unless the Western countries strikes first.

Remember that I mentioned that the Russians don't want to take the first step in nuclear strike, and that was before Badeskov put on the War Plan link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563692/Soviet-plan-for-WW3-nuclear-attack-unearthed.html that also states:

Moscow’s commanders fully expected western “imperialists” to make the first nuclear strike.

Edited by Ra_Sun-God

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Man I could use some of that memory mental right Now! Who said the Russians Had it ?

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Standard Russian procedure to send out soldiers to the same places were the nuclear strikes occoured? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that is so unrealistic. No, the Russians would never use nuclear strikes unless the Western countries strikes first.

Remember that I mentioned that the Russians don't want to take the first step in nuclear strike, and that was before Badeskov put on the War Plan link http://www.telegraph...-unearthed.html that also states:

Moscow's commanders fully expected western "imperialists" to make the first nuclear strike.

I would suggest you read up a bit more on cold war history. Nuclear and chemical warfare as first strike scenarios were very viable and very likely options for the Soviets in case of an invasion of Western Europe. The reason being that the Soviets needed to conquer Western Europe before ground and air reinforcements could arrive from the US and they could therefore not allow themselves to be bogged down anywhere, but were 100% dependent on the ability of their armor to continue their advance.

And they do sacrifice troops for advances. As 747400 correctly stated, pretty much standard procedure since Peter the Great. Why do you think the Soviets lost so many during World War II? Why did they send people into battle with no weapons against well equipped German infantry and armor? I seriously suggest you read up on Soviet (and Russian) history and the battles they have engaged in. Simply put, the Soviet soldier was expandable and expected to be expended during times of battle.

And the belief that the Soviets would never strike first is simply just naive. Of course they would if they had deemed it necessary. That was also part of the war plans.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited by badeskov

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Man I could use some of that memory mental right Now! Who said the Russians Had it ?

Hmmm. I'll take a beer instead, big D. ;)

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Zim,

I completely agree with you. I am sure, if there had been a reverse engineering effort somewhere that such people would have been consulted, however, to be quite I do not see any obvious leaps in technology anywhere when looking around.

Cheers,

Badeskov

I do. Groom Lake - however that is the result of advanced requirements and technology suppression combined with streamlined R&D and quite possibly very different organisational structures to the rest of the aerospace industry.

Somebody on this board also mentioned technology releases in the 90s supposedly accelerating the semiconductor industry. THAT could have been the spin-off of some advanced smart materials project, or research into ET technology.

The amount of technology lost to sheer government stupidity is mind-boggling. Our current risk-averse mindset only allows incremental advances, not quantum leaps.

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I would suggest you read up a bit more on cold war history. Nuclear and chemical warfare as first strike scenarios were very viable and very likely options for the Soviets in case of an invasion of Western Europe. The reason being that the Soviets needed to conquer Western Europe before ground and air reinforcements could arrive from the US and they could therefore not allow themselves to be bogged down anywhere, but were 100% dependent on the ability of their armor to continue their advance.

And they do sacrifice troops for advances. As 747400 correctly stated, pretty much standard procedure since Peter the Great. Why do you think the Soviets lost so many during World War II? Why did they send people into battle with no weapons against well equipped German infantry and armor? I seriously suggest you read up on Soviet (and Russian) history and the battles they have engaged in. Simply put, the Soviet soldier was expandable and expected to be expended during times of battle.

And the belief that the Soviets would never strike first is simply just naive. Of course they would if they had deemed it necessary. That was also part of the war plans.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Bade,

Overall Soviet strategy depends in large part on what decade you were talking about. After Kruschev, Soviet strategy became less belligerent. In all time periods, nuclear was regarded as a last resort because the consequences were obvious. Most Pentagon wargames saw NATO getting swept out of Western Europe within a few weeks. In an armour-heavy environment like Western Europe, there simply would be no way to hold the Soviets for that long. The introduction of tank destroyers like the A-10 and AH-64, as well as the M-1 saw the balance tip towards a stalemate. But in the mid '70s, Sheridans and M-60s versus a tidal wave of T-55s and T-72s, with Spetsnaz creating much excitement in the rear sectors? They would have been toast.

In regards to sending troops through freshly-nuked areas, both sides were willing to do so. The infamous Davy Crockett was essentially a nuclear mortar which would almost invariably give the launching crew a lethal dose, not to mention the unfortunate sods in the trenches in front... this gives you an idea of the mentality on both sides during the early Cold War.

M-388 Davy Crockett

DavyCrockettBomb.jpg

Edited by Captain Zim

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Hi Zim :)

I do. Groom Lake - however that is the result of advanced requirements and technology suppression combined with streamlined R&D and quite possibly very different organisational structures to the rest of the aerospace industry.

I would agree with the streamlining, but I personally still see no sudden leaps or sudden appearances of new technologies.

Somebody on this board also mentioned technology releases in the 90s supposedly accelerating the semiconductor industry. THAT could have been the spin-off of some advanced smart materials project, or research into ET technology.

To the best of my knowledge there has been no acceleration in the semiconductor industry stemming from technological infusions during the 1990's and right now the semiconductor industry is actually suffering due to power consumption and heat dissipation and is in dire needs for such infusions. In my opinion, what we saw in the 1990's was the proliferation of the personal computer and thus the immense increase in demand for hardware that in turn generated the revenue enabling an intensified research effort (in addition to the increased competition between silicon vendors). Semiconductor technology as such has generally followed Moore's law (predicting roughly the doubling of the number of transistors on a chip per two years) since it was formulated in 1965 with only small deviations. However, what Moore's law does not take into account is how much power that consumes and that has become the main bottleneck now.

The amount of technology lost to sheer government stupidity is mind-boggling. Our current risk-averse mindset only allows incremental advances, not quantum leaps.

Now that is something I can wholeheartedly agree with.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Bade,

Overall Soviet strategy depends in large part on what decade you were talking about. After Kruschev, Soviet strategy became less belligerent. In all time periods, nuclear was regarded as a last resort because the consequences were obvious. Most Pentagon wargames saw NATO getting swept out of Western Europe within a few weeks. In an armour-heavy environment like Western Europe, there simply would be no way to hold the Soviets for that long. The introduction of tank destroyers like the A-10 and AH-64, as well as the M-1 saw the balance tip towards a stalemate. But in the mid '70s, Sheridans and M-60s versus a tidal wave of T-55s and T-72s, with Spetsnaz creating much excitement in the rear sectors? They would have been toast.

In regards to sending troops through freshly-nuked areas, both sides were willing to do so. The infamous Davy Crockett was essentially a nuclear mortar which would almost invariably give the launching crew a lethal dose, not to mention the unfortunate sods in the trenches in front... this gives you an idea of the mentality on both sides during the early Cold War.

M-388 Davy Crockett

<snipped image>

Zim,

I would actually be very interested in having a chat with you about it as I enjoy cold war history myself, but that would most certainly be way off-topic here. That said, I completely agree with you and the stance of the Soviet Union and the United States changed with changing leaders, technological advances, the threat assessment at any given time and likewise the assessment of the opponent at any given time.

But it is my opinion that either side would have taken preemptive measures should it be known that the opposing side had gained or could gain a technological advance that was so significant that it would render any deterrence obsolete and that was really the point I was trying to make.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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