Ancient Stonework of Peru

[TheSearcher]

Afterwards I felt like I had walked around in dream land...

Licking a toad or chewing coca leaves will do that to you....

Just joking, I know what you mean though, hike through other places like Iceland or Nepal and you'll get the same effect.

[Abramelin]

Just make sure that you spend an afternoon flying over the Nazca Plains.

I will never forget that flight, lol.

I remember that the pilot was an Italian who had lived there for like 20 years (back in 1991). I was sitting beside him, on the seat where normally a co-pilot woud sit, and man, how I loved it.

The Italian guy had flewn over that plain for like a zillion times, and I saw in his eyes he was in for a bit of fun... So I winked at him, and asked "Hey, is it ok if I fly the plane?" He smiled, and said "OK, take the wheel" (or whatever that thing is called with which you stear a plane, lol). Of course he didn't really, he just pretended to let me fly the plane, and he knew why I had asked him...

You will have to know that to be able to make photos, the plane (a double-decker) must ascend, and then make a dive and turn left or right, so the toursist in the plane will see the ground with the lines right below them and can take photos.

"OK", I said, "Now let's see if I can make a dive to the left". So the Italian dived to the left, but the other guys of my group I was travelling with and were in that plane all thought it was me doing the flying (and diving). I must say I have never heard 5 people scream bloody murder so loud, hahahahahaaa !!!

After we landed, and after I had told them it was just a practical joke, I had to run...

[TheSearcher]

I will never forget that flight, lol.

I remember that the pilot was an Italian who had lived there for like 20 years (back in 1991). I was sitting beside him, on the seat where normally a co-pilot woud sit, and man, how I loved it.

The Italian guy had flewn over that plain for like a zillion times, and I saw in his eyes he was in for a bit of fun... So I winked at him, and asked "Hey, is it ok if I fly the plane?" He smiled, and said "OK, take the wheel" (or whatever that thing is called with which you stear a plane, lol). Of course he didn't really, he just pretended to let me fly the plane, and he knew why I had asked him...

You will have to know that to be able to make photos, the plane (a double-decker) must ascend, and then make a dive and turn left or right, so the toursist in the plane will see the ground with the lines right below them and can take photos.

"OK", I said, "Now let's see if I can make a dive to the left". So the Italian dived to the left, but the other guys of my group I was travelling with and were in that plane all thought it was me doing the flying (and diving). I must say I have never heard 5 people scream bloody murder so loud, hahahahahaaa !!!

After we landed, and after I had told them it was just a practical joke, I had to run...

I'm now kicking myself that I never thought of doing that. Good one.

[fantazum]

I will never forget that flight, lol.

I remember that the pilot was an Italian who had lived there for like 20 years (back in 1991). I was sitting beside him, on the seat where normally a co-pilot woud sit, and man, how I loved it.

The Italian guy had flewn over that plain for like a zillion times, and I saw in his eyes he was in for a bit of fun... So I winked at him, and asked "Hey, is it ok if I fly the plane?" He smiled, and said "OK, take the wheel" (or whatever that thing is called with which you stear a plane, lol). Of course he didn't really, he just pretended to let me fly the plane, and he knew why I had asked him...

You will have to know that to be able to make photos, the plane (a double-decker) must ascend, and then make a dive and turn left or right, so the toursist in the plane will see the ground with the lines right below them and can take photos.

"OK", I said, "Now let's see if I can make a dive to the left". So the Italian dived to the left, but the other guys of my group I was travelling with and were in that plane all thought it was me doing the flying (and diving). I must say I have never heard 5 people scream bloody murder so loud, hahahahahaaa !!!

After we landed, and after I had told them it was just a practical joke, I had to run...

I eny you. I didnt have enough money for a flight over nazca. I had to be happy riding my motorcycle to some high points which gave me a reasonable view.I didnt stay long as it was very hot and dry and I couldnt carry enough water but its still an amazing place.

[lightly]

yes I have actually visited many of the sites noted here.The method of construction makes no sense.Very few blocks are squared off and the overall impression is that the jigsaw system of matching and jointing is deliberate and with a specific purpose.The blocks are not only intricately cut and fitted but the edges are bevelled.

The scale of the block work is also puzzling.Why bother with such huge pieces when it would have been far easier to cut squared-off blocks of a size easily handled and moved by small teams of men.

The answer to my own questions became clear when I visited the museum in la paz and saw a seismic record of earthquakes in the region over the last century.

the Inca knew what they were doing because they understood the effects of seismic activity on human construction and they built to resist it.

very few of the constructions of the Inca suffered greatly from the numerous earthquakes and many of their buildings and walls suffered no effect at all when all else collapsed around them.

Very much like the pyramids in egypt that have withstood thousands of earthquakes when all other construction forms collapsed into the sand.

hi fantazum, I'm glad to hear that you , and others here, have been able to visit ,as you say, "many of the sites noted here"... i have been in most states of the U.S. , and parts of Canada and Mexico , but haven't seen other parts of the world. I started this topic because i find that type of megalithic construction (Huge/Polygonal) to be especially interesting and peculiar.... with it's, as you say, "beveled" or rounded edges giving it that odd puffy look... and it's equally odd smooth indentations and protrusions that ,thus far, no one seems to find interesting... dismissing them as most probably naturally occurring and ,for some reason, left as is in an otherwise worked surface , and even going so far as to say the basic shapes were most probably found in the rocks selected. Well ... maybe... maybe not. I certainly don't know the truth of their construction. I do agree that Ancient peoples were entirely capable of creating what we see without Alien intervention .. but i'm not so sure that we always know exactly how . This is the where i go "fringie" part ... might it be possible that ,sometimes, Ancient peoples had knowledge and capabilities that we don't? i hope so , lol love,lightlyy

[Qoais]

Frieze dated from 5,000 years ago found in Peru

LivinginPeru.com

Isabel Guerra

A frieze that would have been sculpted 5,000 years ago, was found at Vichama archaeological complex, some 120km to the north of Lima, according to archaeologists of the Caral-Supe project.

According to a press release, the most notable part of the frieze is one that represents a human hand holding an object like a knife or a spindle.

The exposed part of the hand measures 23 x 20 inches, and the instrument is 35 cm long by 20 centimeters wide.

The archaeologists think that the frieze might be associated with ceremonial activities, and could probably represent a particular scene or ritual slaughter.

Dated from 5,000 years ago, this would be one of the oldest friezes in the region.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/10316

Why is it that the people who make these discoveries, always attribute everything they find to being a religious item, or having to do with worship? I'd love to see someone use a knife in that position and not cut themselves. The minute I looked at it I immediately thought the person was weaving. (as in spindle).

[questionmark]

Why is it that the people who make these discoveries, always attribute everything they find to being a religious item, or having to do with worship? I'd love to see someone use a knife in that position and not cut themselves. The minute I looked at it I immediately thought the person was weaving. (as in spindle).

Ehm yes, but in absence of a thread I'd supposed right after that it could be a ... hhhmm... vibrator?

Then again it could be the discoverer of asparagus... we will never know as long as the only remnant is a badly chiseled hand with an equally badly chiseled object.

But nice find.

Edited October 9, 2009 by questionmark

[+HerNibs]

Ehm yes, but in absence of a thread I'd supposed right after that it could be a ... hhhmm... vibrator?

Then again it could be the discoverer of asparagus... we will never know as long as the only remnant is a badly chiseled hand with an equally badly chiseled object.

Burt nice find.

Glad to see that I am not the only one who's mind wandered in that direction. I thought it would be a good sign for a sex toy store. I'm assuming that type of stuff existed. I remember watching something about ancient Egyptian "toys".

Nibs

[Qoais]

Try holding something in your hand in the position indicated. One needs to bend the fingers to grasp and to put pressure on whatever tool it may be. A strange way to carve the position of hand using a tool.

[+HerNibs]

Try holding something in your hand in the position indicated. One needs to bend the fingers to grasp and to put pressure on whatever tool it may be. A strange way to carve the position of hand using a tool.

Why? It appears to be a sign or symbol, not a detailed "how to" carving.

Why can't it just be one of the signs or carving that an apprentice did? Or the guy who failed "carving class"?

I think it looks like a simple sign or something. Like this

Simple, gets the message across but isn't "lifelike".

Nibs

[Qoais]

Ok, sure. What do you think the sign indicates?

[Qoais]

Not wanting to open a new thread just to ask a question, what happened to Eyesallseeing's thread about Atlantis?

[+HerNibs]

Ok, sure. What do you think the sign indicates?

Already said what it makes me think of.

I'm not sure what it indicates but it seems to me that it could be a very simple design. Maybe done cheaply for a store? I don't know. I just think that sometimes we expect too much or read too much into some of these finds.

Bakery

Pestle sale

Drum lessons

Who knows.

Nibs

[hortie]

What do you need explained? Do you think the Inca were too stupid or too primitive to cut stone well, or are you going to try to convince us that your some manner of expert stonecutter and you /know/ it couldn't have been done by them with the tools available? I wasn't aware craftsmanship was an insoluble mystery.

--Jaylemurph

OMG here we go again, just because youve put thousands of replies doesnt mean u know what ur talking about. Just no life. The stones are cut perfect, you understand? perfect, not a knife can fit in any crack have any idea how hard it wouldve been? We dont however really know what tools they had but i this is a great mystery unless you could make a wall like that. i dont think i could.

[Swede]

Frieze dated from 5,000 years ago found in Peru

LivinginPeru.com

Isabel Guerra

A frieze that would have been sculpted 5,000 years ago, was found at Vichama archaeological complex, some 120km to the north of Lima, according to archaeologists of the Caral-Supe project.

According to a press release, the most notable part of the frieze is one that represents a human hand holding an object like a knife or a spindle.

The exposed part of the hand measures 23 x 20 inches, and the instrument is 35 cm long by 20 centimeters wide.

The archaeologists think that the frieze might be associated with ceremonial activities, and could probably represent a particular scene or ritual slaughter.

Dated from 5,000 years ago, this would be one of the oldest friezes in the region.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/10316

Why is it that the people who make these discoveries, always attribute everything they find to being a religious item, or having to do with worship? I'd love to see someone use a knife in that position and not cut themselves. The minute I looked at it I immediately thought the person was weaving. (as in spindle).

Qoais - All the following comments aside, please do not discount the implications of this and other related sites. You have previously asked for evidence of precursor technology in regards to later construction. Need one say more?

[Qoais]

Qoais - All the following comments aside, please do not discount the implications of this and other related sites. You have previously asked for evidence of precursor technology in regards to later construction. Need one say more?

I guess you do because you've lost me there.

[Qoais]

http://www.mcguinnessonline.com/gold/cast.htm

Arrow down until you find this picture:

Look at the guy's hands. Maybe the carving we're guessing about is a hand holding a "lime bottle"!!

Edited October 10, 2009 by Qoais

[Oniomancer]

Frieze dated from 5,000 years ago found in Peru

LivinginPeru.com

Isabel Guerra

A frieze that would have been sculpted 5,000 years ago, was found at Vichama archaeological complex, some 120km to the north of Lima, according to archaeologists of the Caral-Supe project.

According to a press release, the most notable part of the frieze is one that represents a human hand holding an object like a knife or a spindle.

The exposed part of the hand measures 23 x 20 inches, and the instrument is 35 cm long by 20 centimeters wide.

The archaeologists think that the frieze might be associated with ceremonial activities, and could probably represent a particular scene or ritual slaughter.

Dated from 5,000 years ago, this would be one of the oldest friezes in the region.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/10316

Why is it that the people who make these discoveries, always attribute everything they find to being a religious item, or having to do with worship? I'd love to see someone use a knife in that position and not cut themselves. The minute I looked at it I immediately thought the person was weaving. (as in spindle).

Common practice in NA gravesites, etc. to leave spearheads and blades as ritual offerings, so it's not a completly unsound assumption. This raises the the question though, what is the proper way to hold a razor sharp unhafted edge weapon? Seems to me the subject's doing it about the only way you can, held flat directly between the thumb and fingers.

[Qoais]

Seems to me that if you're right, the subject would have to be dead!! And if he isn't, one slip of that knife between the thumb and index finger and he soon would be. I've tried holding a knife blade the way you describe, as shown in the picture and I don't find it a natural position at all. One automatically bends the knuckles.

[Swede]

I guess you do because you've lost me there.

Sorry! I should have been more clear. I was referring to the speculated dating of this site (circa 5,000 BP). If this date stands up, then we have demonstrable evidence of the carving of large lithics that predate later construction by 1,500 to 2,000 yrs. Quite a reasonable span in which to develop and refine technologies.

As to the graphic "style", one should keep in mind that artistic techniques have, themselves, been subject to development, particularly when working in durable materials. That, and early works are often highly stylized (see the 37,000 BP "Venus" of Hohle Fels for example).You may also wish to pull up some photos of the roughly contemporaneous (to the Peruvian site) North American Jeffers Petroglyph site. Different subject matter and technology, but the carvings again display a notable level of stylization.

It will be interesting to follow the excavation and observe the relationship of what has currently been exposed to subsequent findings.

[lightly]

The archaeologists think that the frieze might be associated with ceremonial activities, and could probably represent a particular scene of ritual slaughter.

Dated from 5,000 years ago, this would be one of the oldest friezes in the region.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/10316

Ritual Slaughter!? (see above)... why does much of Archaeology seem to be on some sort of death trip? Where do they get Ritual Slaughter from that hand & blade like object carving??? It seems that more often than not when an especially ornate or jewell encrusted dagger is found.. it is considered to be some sort of Sacrificial dagger! ..And any table like object ,especially if it has some drainage channels, is undoubtedly a Sacrificial Alter... and not a fish cleaning table. lol We mostly only have the ,most probably highly exaggerated, word of the Spanish Invaders about Aztec human sacrifice .. and yet.. some Archaeologists eagerly jump to the conclusion that the Aztecs may have Sacrificed themselves out of existence!! ... i guess that sounds more Politically Correct on behalf of the spanish than... the spanish killed them off with imported disease... or whatever really happened ... anywayyyy... ever notice the tendency of Archaeology to jump to that sort of conclusion???

it could just as easily be a lithic poster for the carrot festival.

Edited October 13, 2009 by lightlyy

[questionmark]

ever notice the tendency of Archaeology to jump to that sort of conclusion???

Ehm, yes... but as pointed out before it could be all kinds of things. Naturally one tends to assume first that it is something known and associated with ancient cultures.

[TheSearcher]

The archaeologists think that the frieze might be associated with ceremonial activities, and could probably represent a particular scene of ritual slaughter.

Dated from 5,000 years ago, this would be one of the oldest friezes in the region.

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/10316

Ritual Slaughter!? (see above)... why does much of Archaeology seem to be on some sort of death trip? Where do they get Ritual Slaughter from that hand & blade like object carving??? It seems that more often than not when an especially ornate or jewell encrusted dagger is found.. it is considered to be some sort of Sacrificial dagger! ..And any table like object ,especially if it has some drainage channels, is undoubtedly a Sacrificial Alter... and not a fish cleaning table. lol We mostly only have the ,most probably highly exaggerated, word of the Spanish Invaders about Aztec human sacrifice .. and yet.. some Archaeologists eagerly jump to the conclusion that the Aztecs may have Sacrificed themselves out of existence!! ... i guess that sounds more Politically Correct on behalf of the spanish than... the spanish killed them off with imported disease... or whatever really happened ... anywayyyy... ever notice the tendency of Archaeology to jump to that sort of conclusion???

it could just as easily be a lithic poster for the carrot festival.

Ritual sacrifice does not mean per definition human sacrifive either. Take Rome for example where animals where slaughtered ritually for the gods as well. It might have been the fish cleaning table and knife, but in al fairness, we do know from other cultures, that this more often than not, was not the case.

[sandman25]

I think soon we will be able to look back on a lot of these theories proposed by the academics as best guess of a primitive science. Archeology has only been around a hundred years or so, and those that are allowed to succeed in the field don’t impart wild theories. Once we have some real proof of an advanced lost civilization in pre-history, many old antiquated theories will change. With that said, there is a lot of evidence that sacrifice and blood letting was a common element of cultures before the modern age.

We are still very much swayed by the narrow interpretations made by academia. That’s OK. AS of today, we are really only establishing a baseline for future generations of academics who will raise the bar the let us know a much more accurate picture. Professors can’t cross the line. That’s for those on the fringe, who will seed the next wave of modern thinking.