Atlantis

[The_Spartan]

I see, and this record would be contained in...?

QM..I think Agonaces of Susa's next answer would be that "these records will be found in the hall of records under the paw of the great shpinx"

[Qoais]

Qoais, yes that very strange theory suggests that the entire solid portion of the earth (above the liquid iron core) is capable of movement when there are forces great enough to get it started. I don't have any idea what would be necessary but suggested in another thread that the weight of ice on the North American continent during the last Ice Age might have been enough. Proponents of this theory suggest that the magnetic north pole has shifted several times over the last 100,000 plus years. The last location of true North was supposedly the last location of magnetic north supposedly in Hudson Bay. That would be some 1500 or 2000 miles of distance. The magnetic north is currently making its way toward our current North Pole and last I heard it was increasing its velocity to something like 25 to 40 km per year. (Not sure on that figure but it was in a Nat. Geographic magazine)

Come to think of it, I think I read that as well. The point is of course, that if the crust is going to move, the whole crust is going to move and not just a part of it. Therefore, neither Greenland nor Antarctica were outside the Pillars of Heracles, except in a time so long in the past as to be when pangea was breaking up.

[lakeview rud]

Abramelin, yeah the Piri Reis isn't very good but try the Oronteus Fineaeus map. It appears to show rivers entering the Ross Sea. Like I said, if ice cores are available from all over Antartcica then likely no way in hominid history was it ice free.

[The_Spartan]

Archaeological evidence and paleontological data and dating.

And pray, tell me more about these "evidence" and "data' & "dating"? Got Milk..ooops a credible source, huh?

[Harte]

If your point is that you have no evidence, I think I get it.

The evidence is all over this board.

Try the Search function.

Try "advanced" and input "Piri Reis" into the search field.

If you want the facts, you should type "Harte" into the field labeled "author." LOL

There are absolute physical facts that preclude what you claim about this map.

There are also absolute physical and political facts that explain why the map shows only the coastline of South America, albeit bent eastward.

Harte

[questionmark]

Every library on Earth.

If you are talking about Plato's Atlantis, that is an allegorical story. And see that last word?

[Agonaces of Susa]

And pray, tell me more about these "evidence" and "data' & "dating"? Got Milk..ooops a credible source, huh?

It would take an entire server farm to catalogue it all but I'll just say a couple things.

To begin with, you have to multiply all of your conventional dates by 6.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110135411.htm

In other words, a biological specimen determined by traditional DNA testing to be 100,000 years old may actually be 200,000 to 600,000 years old

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7068/abs/nature04425.html

Here we show by 40Ar/39Ar dating and corroborating palaeomagnetic data that the basaltic tuff on which the purported footprints are found is 1.30 +/- 0.03 million years old.

"The fact that some prehistoric man made a pictograph of a dinosaur on the walls of this canyon [Havasupai Canyon, Arizona] upsets completely all of our theories regarding the antiquity of man. Facts are stubborn and immutable things. If theories do not square with the facts then the theories must change, the facts remain." -- Samuel Hubbard, paleoanthropologist, November 1924

"In Pershing County, Nevada, a shoe print was found in Triassic limestone, strata indicative of 400 million years, in which the fossilized evidence clearly revealed finely wrought double-stitching in the seams." -- Brad Steiger, author, October 1978

"...the suggestion of sentient humans walking about writing on North American walls during the Carboniferous Era, 250 million years ago, simply subjects the orthodox thinking apparatus to more shocks than may be comfortably sustained." -- Brad Steiger, author, October 1978

"I determined fission-track ages on zircons from two of the tephra units overlying the artifacted beds. The Hueyatlaco ash yielded a zircon fission-track age of 370,000+/-200,000 years, and the Tetela brown mud yielded an age of 600,000+/-340,000 years. There is a 96 percent chance that the true age of these tephras lie within the range defined by the age and the plus or minus value. Now, there were four different geological dating techniques that suggested a far greater antiquity to the artifacts than anyone in the archaeological community wanted to admit." -- Charles W. Naeser, chemist, April 2007

"... we could also consider the shoe print, you know, that was found near Antelope Springs Utah by William Meister. And he found that in the year 1968. He was a researcher, a collector of fossils, and he was breaking open pieces of slate rock at this place Antelope Springs and when he broke open one piece of rock he found a shoe print. You know, my coauthor Richard Thompson went to visit William Meister in Utah and he was able to see this specimen, he was able to take photographs of it, and we did a computer analysis, and we showed that the shape of this impression in the rock is exactly like that of a shoe print. And if you look at your shoe, at the bottom of your shoe, you can usually see where your heel is worn down in a certain place, so this print had that same feature in it and also crushed in the middle of the foot print was the fossil of a trilobyte. Now a trilobyte is a shellfish that existed about 500 million years ago in what's called the Cambrian Period." -- Michael A. Cremo, author, March 19th 2008

"Scientists have recently announced the discovery in Kenya of some interesting footprints, found in layers of rock about 1.5 million years old. Researchers describe them as anatomically modern. That is to say, the foot structure is the same as in human beings like us. But most scientists today would never even dream of suggesting that the footprints were made by humans like us. According to their understandings, humans like us did not exist 1.5 million years ago. We had not evolved yet. Most scientists now believe the first humans like us came into existence about 150,000 years ago. So the Kenya footprints are ten times too old for modern humans. So the scientists attributed the footprints to the apeman called Homo ergaster, which some scientists believe to be a kind of Homo erectus. The problem is that we do not know what the Homo erectus foot structure was really like. No one has ever found a foot skeleton of Homo erectus. So at the present moment, the only creature known to science that has a foot just like that of a modern human being is in fact a modern human being, like us. Maybe in the future someone will find a foot skeleton of Homo erectus (or Homo ergaster) that is fully modern in it’s anatomy. But that has not been done yet. So if we are going to stick to the facts, to the evidence that we really have, then the most reasonable thing we can say is that the scientists in Kenya have found evidence that humans like us existed 1.5 million yeas ago. And this contradicts the current evolutionary accounts of human origins." -- Michael A. Cremo, author, February 2009

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[Agonaces of Susa]

If you are talking about Plato's Atlantis, that is an allegorical story. And see that last word?

There is nothing allegorical about the existence of Antarctica. Antarctica is real.

[The_Spartan]

All that is correct, what is mentioned above.

I never brought up the question of DNA testing for age or anything.

My question is geological timescale, proved by ice core samples.

Any words about it?

[questionmark]

There is nothing allegorical about the existence of Antarctica. Antarctica is real.

I see, so that includes Red Riding Hood and Cinderella?

[Agonaces of Susa]

My question is geological timescale, proved by ice core samples.

Any words about it?

What about it?

I see, so that includes Red Riding Hood and Cinderella?

Obviously not. Why do you believe in Red Riding Hood and Cinderella but not Antarctica?

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[Qoais]

Agonaces, why do YOU believe Antarctica was Atlantis? I've read Flem-Aths book as well, when it first came out, but then for the last three years I've been trying to make Plato's story fit his time line and it just doesn't work. There was no Atlantis as Plato told it. Now, there might have been an Atlantis as Edgar Cayce told it, because that story has quite a different explanation. But the point remains. If there had been a power such as described by both these people, why are there no remnants? Absolutely nothing, to show for it? Not only in their homeland, but supposedly they had power over Europe and Africa too. Would not their culture have left traces in this area as well? Would they not have had relatives a friends living in other parts of the world that would have survived and carried on the traditions and religions?

[Agonaces of Susa]

Agonaces, why do YOU believe Antarctica was Atlantis?

1. The 360 B.C. description of Atlantis is a description of Antarctica.

"... in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent." -- Plato, Timaeus, 360 B.C.

2. The 1665 map of Atlantis is a map of Antarctica.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[questionmark]

1. The 360 B.C. description of Atlantis is a description of Antarctica.

"... in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent." -- Sonchis of Sais, priest, 6th century B.C.

2. The 1665 map of Atlantis is a map of Antarctica.

I see... and you got these where?

[Agonaces of Susa]

I see... and you got these where?

Any library on Earth or on the internet.

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Athanasius_Kircher%27s_Atlantis.gif

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[questionmark]

Any library on Earth or on the internet.

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Athanasius_Kircher%27s_Atlantis.gif

I see, hope you know Latin then you will learn first hand that Kircher did not put Atlantis in Antartica...in fact he did not even know that it existed. He was still expecting to find the Terra Australis Incognita where we know there is only Australia:

[Agonaces of Susa]

I see, hope you know Latin then you will learn first hand that Kircher did not put Atlantis in Antartica...in fact he did not even know that it existed.

How did Kircher produce a map of Antarctica if he didn't know it existed? The answer: because Atlantis is Antarctica!

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[Abramelin]

<br />Are you saying that Plato and Athanasius Kircher were not historical figures and persons of historical record?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

LOL, yes, they existed.

Now show us that historical record that tells us that Antarctica was an Atlantian Empire.

Quotes will be sufficient.

[Abramelin]

How did Kircher produce a map of Antarctica if he didn't know it existed? The answer: because Atlantis is Antarctica!

He didn't, it's just your favorite interpretation.

Why don't you just admit that you got these ideas from Flem' Aht's book?

Or did you just pluck a quote from the internet, believing it was the source, and having no clue where it originally came from??

Well, in that case, let me assist yoü:

http://www.flem-ath.com/2009/07/atlantis-in-antarctica/

.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Abramelin

[questionmark]

How did Kircher produce a map of Antarctica if he didn't know it existed? The answer: because Atlantis is Antarctica!

Because above it seez clearly that those two small islands to the right of "Atlantis" are the Canary Islands. They are most certainly NOT near Antarctica. in fact, they are nearer to the arctic.

ED, sorry the left. And that mass of land to the lower left is supposedly Spain (Hispania)

Edited November 16, 2009 by questionmark

[jules99]

I always liked plato's description for the location of atlantis in the atantic and the theory that when it sank it allowed the gulf stream to flow up towards the uk and europe, increasing their temporature and pushing back the glaciers. Maybe in conjunction with someother cataclysmic event it marked the ending of the last ice age. The ending of the last ice age would roughly correlate with platos date for the sinking of atlantis.

If the sinking had happened in stages then that might explain platos description of the impassable mud shoals

Its also curious that parts of the antiplano, lake titicaca region appear to have been greatly lifted up by geological upheaval.

[Agonaces of Susa]

He didn't, it's just your favorite interpretation.

Any child can see it.

And if Rand Flem-Ath can see it too it's probably because he's an intelligent observer.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[Abramelin]

Any child can see it.

And if Rand Flem-Ath can see it too it's probably because he's an intelligent observer.

He's imaginative, yes.

And his interpretation is your favorite one, so therefore it must be true.

OK, I get it now.

[Agonaces of Susa]

They are most certainly NOT near Antarctica.

Kircher knew exactly where the Canary Islands were...

The Canary Islands are nowhere on Kircher's map.

The islands off Antarctica are not the Canary Islands.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[questionmark]

Kircher knew exactly where the Canary Islands were...

The Canary Islands are nowhere on Kircher's map.

The islands off Antarctica are not the Canary Islands.

You are right, those are the Falklands or Australia... Problem is that in Kirchers time at least Australia was unknown. As I said, they were still looking for the Terra Australis Incognita. It was not until Cook that they knew it did not exist.

The secret of the above map is that the wood engraver mirrored the image, now if we put it right again and compare it with a normal map:

It looks like it has to look, America to the left, Spain and Africa to the right and in the middle of both Atlantis.

Hint, you know that arrow that all maps have pointing to the North...look at the circle.