Atlantis

[cormac mac airt]

In other words there are no fossil bones found of any of these animals on these islands lelf of the island continent Atlantis, so they could`nt have walked there.

No, they couldn't have walked there because there wasn't a 1000 mile long landbridge for them to walk on. And horses and elephants don't swim for 1000 miles at a stretch, particularly in the ocean.

cormac

[docyabut2]

No, they couldn't have walked there because there wasn't a 1000 mile long landbridge for them to walk on. And horses and elephants don't swim for 1000 miles at a stretch, particularly in the ocean.

cormac

Thanks cormac, in my opinion the tale of Atlantis may never have been true the way it writtin and translated many times, but if true had to be based on a real place and event that appears in history.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I wonder could we read some hieroglyphs differently. Maybe Egyptians also have had their own esoteric knowledge which they carved into walls in cryptographic way.

Maybe it was written just wait someone to dechipher it.

I doubt that hieroglyphs were enough protectin from keeping your knowledge secret. In the end hieroglyphs are easy to learn.

[kmt_sesh]

I wonder could we read some hieroglyphs differently. Maybe Egyptians also have had their own esoteric knowledge which they carved into walls in cryptographic way.

Maybe it was written just wait someone to dechipher it.

I doubt that hieroglyphs were enough protectin from keeping your knowledge secret. In the end hieroglyphs are easy to learn.

I wouldn't say "easy," as I've spent many years learning hieroglyphs and am certainly not an expert. But is it possible? Absolutely. I guarantee you, far more people today can read hieroglyphs than the ancient Egyptians could have.

On the subject of cryptographic hieroglyphs, this was in fact done but not until Ptolemaic times—so, very late in Egyptian history. Nevertheless, linguists have deciphered these glyphs, too. In any case hieroglyphs were not really meant to convey secrets. The Ptolemaic cryptic glyphs aside, hieroglyphs represented a form of the ancient language reserved for ritual and religion, pharaonic propaganda included. There's nothing much esoteric about them.

At the end of the day there is simply no extant record or remnant in the Egyptian tradition of the Atlantis story—be it in hieroglyphs, hieratic, or demotic.

[docyabut2]

I wouldn't say "easy," as I've spent many years learning hieroglyphs and am certainly not an expert. But is it possible? Absolutely. I guarantee you, far more people today can read hieroglyphs than the ancient Egyptians could have.

On the subject of cryptographic hieroglyphs, this was in fact done but not until Ptolemaic times—so, very late in Egyptian history. Nevertheless, linguists have deciphered these glyphs, too. In any case hieroglyphs were not really meant to convey secrets. The Ptolemaic cryptic glyphs aside, hieroglyphs represented a form of the ancient language reserved for ritual and religion, pharaonic propaganda included. There's nothing much esoteric about them.

At the end of the day there is simply no extant record or remnant in the Egyptian tradition of the Atlantis story—be it in hieroglyphs, hieratic, or demotic.

There is a record of a storm that destroyed Egypt, around 1550bc. Perhaps the eruption of Threa.Which also relates to the Cecrops dynasties of the 1500 `s hundreds bc, the kings of Athens, that were said to have been in the Atlantis`s war.

The Tempest Stele (alt. Storm Stele) was erected by Ahmose I early in the eighteenth dynasty of Egypt, circa 1550 BCE. The stele describes a great storm striking Egypt during this time, destroying tombs, temples and pyramids in the Theban region and the work of restoration ordered by the king.^[

^{http://en.wikipedia....i/Tempest_Stele}

Plato

This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/cparada/GML/MythicalChronology.html

Edited February 17, 2013 by docyabut2

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I wouldn't say "easy," as I've spent many years learning hieroglyphs and am certainly not an expert. But is it possible? Absolutely. I guarantee you, far more people today can read hieroglyphs than the ancient Egyptians could have.

On the subject of cryptographic hieroglyphs, this was in fact done but not until Ptolemaic times—so, very late in Egyptian history. Nevertheless, linguists have deciphered these glyphs, too. In any case hieroglyphs were not really meant to convey secrets. The Ptolemaic cryptic glyphs aside, hieroglyphs represented a form of the ancient language reserved for ritual and religion, pharaonic propaganda included. There's nothing much esoteric about them.

At the end of the day there is simply no extant record or remnant in the Egyptian tradition of the Atlantis story—be it in hieroglyphs, hieratic, or demotic.

Hello Kmt!

I never study them. But I listen for people who did studied hieroglyphs what they say. Im not saying that you are slow or nothing. DIfferent people study on different levels. Some use qucik reading technique and read pages as you read sentences. They read sentences as you read words. I know that fast reading has nothing with understanding hieroglyphs but it did open different perspective on texts. They see words as symbols. They dont read letter after letter. They are visual.

One student of Egyptology told me that after he learn hieroglyphs see our words as symbols. I remeber J.A. West and his theory of Egyptian symbolism and their transformation universe. Transformation is key word. Our science dont have principles. We are random event in universe. For Egyptians we were universe who discover itself. Awarness of universe which transform into material work. Their all culture was allegory and symbolism.

So I think it depends to person to person. I do think that people who meditate learn easy. Also many others factors are crucial. Trained brain learn easier. Young brain learn easier.

About chipher, there are countless types of chiphers. I guess we all agree that if you want something to be secret it wouldnt be smart to wrote that on temple wall. Now you said that more people know Egyptian hieroglyphs today then backthen. I guess thats because todays population is very much high and you can learn it on the internet if you want (I guess).

Also as I said there are many different types of codes, chiphiers. Cryptography is science. So its not like we grasp all. Maybe, and I say maybe, there is chance that smart Egyptians did carved their secret knowledge on walls. And that only chosen can read it. Its like conspiracy theory. When you want to hide something you put it in public. Example, when Germany wanted to hide its prize new Messerschmidt fighter plane in 1938, the aircraft was put on display at the Paris Air Show.

You probably think now , okay lets say that they were that smart and that they did hide secret messages on walls who come that no one before didnt decode it? Ah probably because there is no secret messages. And I must agree with you. But we cant ignore that might be a chance. Im sure that many people knew to read hieroglyphs that were not scribes,priests and so on. There are many examples in history. And dont know did you heard about 19 century mathmatician Marie-Sophie Germain who secretly study math and pretend that he was a man in her letters to others mathmaticians.

Now what kind of chipher can hide messages. I dont know. I can only guess. Maybe it was something like Cardan grille.

I remember one more thing.

When Champollion was 11 old he obeserved with admiration on Joseph Fourier collection of Egyptian artifacts. He was stumble upon hieroglyphs. Young Champollion decided that he will understand hieroglyphs no one could read so he end up like great linguist.

When in 1828 he visited Egypt at Dendera he said: "We in Europe are only dwarfs." There he wrote in letter to his brother that he understand reading hieroglyphs.

At Karnak and Dendera Champollion found that he could read hieroglyphs. Then by looking at Rosetta stone he realized that his decipherment of few years earlier had been correct. He said: "You get better results if you dont think about it too much."

So we can conclude that Champollion himself thought that its easy to understand Egyptian hieroglyphs. That reading it shouldnt be a hard work but rather enjoyment of understanding their symbolism.

[docyabut2]

In the poem of Solon`s Atlantis, I believe the 9000 years before was in references to the foundations of the cites of Atlantis, Athens and the Gods,not of the war that was said to have taken place in the 1500bc`s and of Atlantis`s destruction.

[Abramelin]

In the poem of Solon`s Atlantis, I believe the 9000 years before was in references to the foundations of the cites of Atlantis, Athens and the Gods,not of the war that was said to have taken place in the 1500bc`s and of Atlantis`s destruction.

Can you give us a quote from Plato where he says that the war had taken place in 1500 BC?

[docyabut2]

Can you give us a quote from Plato where he says that the war had taken place in 1500 BC?

Plato

This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,

http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

[cormac mac airt]

Plato

This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,

http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

That doesn't work as Plato says, specifically, in Critias:

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe.

cormac

[docyabut2]

That doesn't work as Plato says, specifically, in Critias:

cormac

There still is a lot of controversy over those numbers, to 900 years before Solon to the Plato reincarnations of souls for only ten thousand years. I guess when it comes down to it, most believe the city that Plato does describe could not have existed 11,500 years ago.

http://thriceholy.net/transmigration.html

[cormac mac airt]

There still is a lot of controversy over those numbers, to 900 years before Solon to the Plato reincarnations of souls for only ten thousand years. I guess when it comes down to it, most believe the city that Plato does describe could not have existed 11,500 years ago.

http://thriceholy.ne...smigration.html

The only controversy is a made-up controversy by fringe proponents in order for them to play fast-and-loose with what Plato said. In short, BS to cover their incompetence.

cormac

[docyabut2]

Well something has to fit, if the tale of Atlantis was ever true:)

[cormac mac airt]

Well something has to fit, if the tale of Atlantis was ever true:)

Atlantis, as written and described by Plato, was not real.

cormac

[Panos89]

I wonder could we read some hieroglyphs differently. Maybe Egyptians also have had their own esoteric knowledge which they carved into walls in cryptographic way.

Maybe it was written just wait someone to dechipher it.

I doubt that hieroglyphs were enough protectin from keeping your knowledge secret. In the end hieroglyphs are easy to learn.

You don't have to read Egyptian Hieroglyphs. The Egyptian priest Manethon had translated many of those hidden-knowledge-walls to ancient Greek. He lived in Ptolemaic Egypt and he was greek edjucated thanks to what Alexander left behind for this world.

[Panos89]

And what's your opinion guys about the artifacts named "Paladion" ? they said Atlantis had one of em. Such as Troy. At least we have some clues about Troy... anyway Paladion was a statue that gave godlike powers to whoever was able to use it. If "Paladion" sunk with Atlantis and none of these citizens escaped with it... Bermuda Triangle isn't a pretty nasty coincidence, according to nowadays urban legend, for this powerful artifact to be at the bottom of the ocean?

I know, it's science fiction but we have to take a look in all evidence we have.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Panos89

[cormac mac airt]

And what's your opinion guys about the artifacts named "Paladion" ? they said Atlantis had one of em. Such as Troy. At least we have some clues about Troy... anyway Paladion was a statue that gave godlike powers to whoever was able to use it. If "Paladion" sunk with Atlantis and none of these citizens escaped with it... Bermuda Triangle isn't a pretty nasty coincidence, according to nowadays urban legend, for this powerful artifact to be at the bottom of the ocean?

I know, it's science fiction but we have to take a look in all evidence we have.

Science fiction is only evidence that someone has a good imagination. Not that sci-fi stories are true.

cormac

[docyabut2]

[Crit.] Then listen, Socrates, to a tale which, though strange, is certainly true, having been attested by Solon, who was the wisest of the seven sages. He was a relative and a dear friend of my great-grandfather, Dropides, as he himself says in many passages of his poems; and he told the story to Critias, my grandfather, who remembered and repeated it to us.

[soc.] Very good. And what is this ancient famous action of the Athenians, which Critias declared, on the authority of Solon, to be not a mere legend, but an actual fact?

For when there were any survivors, as I have already said, they were men who dwelt in the mountains; and they were ignorant of the art of writing, and had heard only the names of the chiefs of the land, but very little about their actions. The names they were willing enough to give to their children; but the virtues and the laws of their predecessors, they knew only by obscure traditions; and as they themselves and their children lacked for many generations the necessaries of life, they directed their attention to the supply of their wants, and of them they conversed, to the neglect of events that had happened in times long past; for mythology and the enquiry into antiquity are first introduced into cities when they begin to have leisure, and when they see that the necessaries of life have already been provided, but not before. And this is reason why the names of the ancients have been preserved to us and not their actions. This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/cparada/GML/MythicalChronology.html

Edited February 20, 2013 by docyabut2

[dadatheking]

look up the huge holes in north and south poles teraforming the earth. Atlantis is something to be investigated but we will never know.

[Abramelin]

[SHaYap]

^

WhUt?

O_o

[Quaentum]

look up the huge holes in north and south poles teraforming the earth. Atlantis is something to be investigated but we will never know.

The supposed huge holes don't actually exist.

^

WhUt?

O_o

I believe he is referring to the ones reffered to by the hollow earth proponents

[kmt_sesh]

...

I remember one more thing.

When Champollion was 11 old he obeserved with admiration on Joseph Fourier collection of Egyptian artifacts. He was stumble upon hieroglyphs. Young Champollion decided that he will understand hieroglyphs no one could read so he end up like great linguist.

When in 1828 he visited Egypt at Dendera he said: "We in Europe are only dwarfs." There he wrote in letter to his brother that he understand reading hieroglyphs.

At Karnak and Dendera Champollion found that he could read hieroglyphs. Then by looking at Rosetta stone he realized that his decipherment of few years earlier had been correct. He said: "You get better results if you dont think about it too much."

So we can conclude that Champollion himself thought that its easy to understand Egyptian hieroglyphs. That reading it shouldnt be a hard work but rather enjoyment of understanding their symbolism.

LOL One thing I cannot do is ever compare myself to Champollion. Not with a straight face, anyway. The man was a genius and a natural linguist. He could fluently speak several languages by the time of his early adolescence. That certainly doesn't describe me. It's only a pity that he didn't live longer because we would very likely have reached a mastery in our understanding of the ancient language much, much sooner.

I don't possess that mastery and never will. I'm not a professional historian or linguist. While I can translate most hieroglyphic inscriptions I encounter, it almost always takes a lot of work and time for me to do so. And my ability to do so is only a testament to the great many brilliant men and women who preceded me in studying hieroglyphs—going back to Champollion.

The Champollion story is very interesting and there are a number of very good books on his life and achievements. No such book shall be written about me.

I will say that while I've made great strides in my own years of studying Egyptian hieroglyphs, I once dabbled in the study of Akkadian cuneiform—and soon gave up. In my opinion, compared to cuneiform, Egyptian hieroglyphs are easy!

[TheSearcher]

look up the huge holes in north and south poles teraforming the earth. Atlantis is something to be investigated but we will never know.

Alas, except the holes in your view of the world, there are no holes to be found in the poles. Besides, Atlantis and the hollow earth bovine manure are two unrelated things. Was is an ancient text written by Plato, the other is excrement.

[Harte]

Maybe it was a typo.

"...look up the huge Poles in north and south..."

Harte