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stevemagegod

Atlantis

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Small words can mean two things, therefor a translation or a oral tradition can over thousands of year loose its meaning.

Det regner ( i ) bergen, it rains ( in ) bergen, det regner ( i ) 40 dager, it rains ( for ) 40 days.

In norwegian the same word ( i ) means two different things, in and for. Therefor it is a part of the bible floodstory can mean two things. Time or place.

The texts referred to by me were not written in Norwegian. For this part to even have a chance to be possible you need to show that it was the same in Sumerian, Babylonian and Hebrew

Moses also travelled away in 40 days and 40 nights, ( when his people made a golden statue while he was gone) this could also mean he traveled to the kingdom of 40 days and 40 nights. Why else mention nights when you all ready have sayd how many days you have been gone. Who does/ say that today? Makes no sense, unless its a place.

Moses was up on Mt Sinai for (not in) 40 days and 40 nights. Can you show that Mt Sinai is near the North Sea?

Same with in front of the pillars, this can also mean two tings, outside or in front of. In fact several of translation i have read use the words outside, and not in front of. The greek also saw the outside of the pillars as a seperate world they knew little about. Their own world lied within the pillars. Therefor this is a natural boarder between two worlds and it makes more sense to say outside.

This link http://www.cakravartin.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/plato-complete-works.pdf Is the literal translation of the complete works of Plato in one pdf file.

The translation on page 2749 says in part "there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles" Since it is a literal translation it is exactly what Plato wrote, In front of, not outside of.

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Ever heard of hyperborea and the titans? Hyperborea was an island, also called the island of light nights, the land north of the north wind, Home of gods. Thought long to lie at the north pole. The days lasted 24 hours, which places it above the arctic circle. Why cant this be part of the atlantis myth? And why does platon mention poseidon and atlas, which are important caracters in both stories?

Is that the same island as Hy-Brasil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasil_(mythical_island)

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Ever heard of hyperborea and the titans? Hyperborea was an island, also called the island of light nights, the land north of the north wind, Home of gods. Thought long to lie at the north pole. The days lasted 24 hours, which places it above the arctic circle. Why cant this be part of the atlantis myth? And why does platon mention poseidon and atlas, which are important caracters in both stories?

Though some sources refer to it as a peninsula or an island, those were later sources. The earlier ones agreed, to an extent, that it was located in northern Greece or southern Europe.

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Though some sources refer to it as a peninsula or an island, those were later sources. The earlier ones agreed, to an extent, that it was located in northern Greece or southern Europe.

Usually given as being north of Thrace, IIRC.

cormac

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The texts referred to by me were not written in Norwegian. For this part to even have a chance to be possible you need to show that it was the same in Sumerian, Babylonian and Hebrew

Moses was up on Mt Sinai for (not in) 40 days and 40 nights. Can you show that Mt Sinai is near the North Sea?

This link http://www.cakravartin.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/plato-complete-works.pdf Is the literal translation of the complete works of Plato in one pdf file.

The translation on page 2749 says in part "there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles" Since it is a literal translation it is exactly what Plato wrote, In front of, not outside of.

I dont know how to read either language and dont know anyone who does. Would be interesting to have an expert on ancient language and meaning of words to check if there are any room for an inaccurasy.

But still we are talking about a very long time, where these texts in egypt must have been translated at least a few times, maybe lost and retold orally for periods of time, before platon finally wrote it down. Small changes especially in these kind of words could have happened.

It is normal practice to for agressive imperial powers to rename the places and mountains they invade after places from their homeland. As greece and sorrounding area was occupied by atlantis for a long time it wouldent surprise me if there was a mount sinai in atlantis too

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I dont know how to read either language and dont know anyone who does. Would be interesting to have an expert on ancient language and meaning of words to check if there are any room for an inaccurasy.

But still we are talking about a very long time, where these texts in egypt must have been translated at least a few times, maybe lost and retold orally for periods of time, before platon finally wrote it down. Small changes especially in these kind of words could have happened.

It is normal practice to for agressive imperial powers to rename the places and mountains they invade after places from their homeland. As greece and sorrounding area was occupied by atlantis for a long time it wouldent surprise me if there was a mount sinai in atlantis too

And what actual texts would those be as all we have is an unevidenced claim, nothing more. It doesn't even make for good hear-say.

cormac

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Though some sources refer to it as a peninsula or an island, those were later sources. The earlier ones agreed, to an extent, that it was located in northern Greece or southern Europe.

Until hyperborea has been found with archeologic evidence it is allowed to speculate, what evidence/indications is there for the northern greece or southern europe theory? And why was it called the land of the light nights? Aplace above the arctic circle fits much better..

Edited by whitegandalf

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It is normal practice to for agressive imperial powers to rename the places and mountains they invade after places from their homeland. As greece and sorrounding area was occupied by atlantis for a long time it wouldent surprise me if there was a mount sinai in atlantis too

If Atlantis had conquered and occupied any of the areas indicated in Plato's works there would be writings, myths, legends or stories from at least some of those areas but there are none. Likewise Athens and it's allies, having beaten Atlantis would have something concerning the war and various battles but none of those accounts exist either. There is nothing to support Atlantis actually ruling over any part of Europe or Africa.

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While it's true that the Greeks believed Egypt had the greater antiquity

Thank you cormac!

Plato claims that the tale of Atlantis was given to Solon by priests in Sais, Egypt. And that the story, from the Egyptians, claimed that Atlantis existed 9000 years before Solon's time. He also claims that the priests told Solon the age of Athens and Sais and by extension Atlantis, meaning that Solon didn't have to translate anything as regards the 9000 year date. So if the priests told Solon the story, verbally, then there is no way he could have gotten the date wrong by such a huge length of time.

You are surely aware that the skeptics usually assume that Plato invented the Solon story?

Now, what if Plato invented the Solon story, but not the Atlantis story? Just as a thought. Just as a possiblity.

Are you aware that you argue like a believer if you insist that the Solon story has to be true word by word or otherwise it is all worthless?

Just questions ...

_

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Until hyperborea has been found with archeologic evidence it is allowed to speculate, what evidence/indications is there for the northern greece or southern europe theory? And why was it called the land of the light nights? Aplace above the arctic circle fits much better..

Since there is no evidence at all of the existence of Hyperborea then there can be no evidence for it's location anywhere. However, in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperborea it indicates where many of the early writers placed Hyperborea.

Homer placed Boreas in Thrace, and therefore Hyperborea in his opinion was somewhere to the north of Thracian territory, perhaps Dacia.[9] Sophocles (Antigone, 980–987), Aeschylus (Agamemnon, 193; 651), Simonides of Ceos (Schol. on Apollonius Rhodius, 1. 121) and Callimachus (Delian, [iV] 65) also placed Boreas in Thrace.[10] Other ancient writers however believed the home of Boreas or the Rhipean Mountains were in a different location. For example, Hecataeus of Miletus believed that the Rhipean Mountains were adjacent to the Black Sea.[11] Alternatively Pindar placed the home of Boreas, the Rhipean Mountains and Hyperborea all near the Danube.[12] Heraclides Ponticus and Antimachus in contrast identified the Rhipean Mountains with the Alps, and the Hyperboreans as a Celtic tribe (perhaps the Helvetii) who lived just beyond them.

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If Atlantis had conquered and occupied any of the areas indicated in Plato's works there would be writings, myths, legends or stories from at least some of those areas but there are none. Likewise Athens and it's allies, having beaten Atlantis would have something concerning the war and various battles but none of those accounts exist either. There is nothing to support Atlantis actually ruling over any part of Europe or Africa.

These writings, myths, legend and stories do exist, but describes possibly the same sivilisation by different names, from different parts of the mediterian and the world. They all decribe their own experience with these gods, which would have been different, acording to timing and what part of the atlantis empire they were most in contact with.

And when it possibly happened 11 600 years ago, one would expect most of the myths and stories to be forgotten and lost. Some of the stories has been exaggeratied and changed over time too. What we have today is probably a fraction of what existed right after it sank.

Edited by whitegandalf

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Thank you cormac!

You are surely aware that the skeptics usually assume that Plato invented the Solon story?

Now, what if Plato invented the Solon story, but not the Atlantis story? Just as a thought. Just as a possiblity.

Are you aware that you argue like a believer if you insist that the Solon story has to be true word by word or otherwise it is all worthless?

Just questions ...

_

You do realize Cormac wasn't indicating that the story of Solon was true don't you? He was specifically referring to the claims made by Plato. A completely different thing.

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These writings, myths, legend and stories do exist, but describes possibly the same sivilisation by different names, from different parts of the mediterian and the world. They all decribe their own experience with these gods, which would have been different, acording to timing and what part of the atlantis empire they were most in contact with.

Please link to the writings myths and legends in those areas supposedly subjugated by Atlantis that could be references to Atlantis.

And when it possibly happened 11 600 years ago, one would expect most of the myths and stories to be forgotten and lost. Some of the stories has been accreated and changed ower time too. What we have today is probably a fraction of what existed right after it sank.

maybe most but not all, yet there are none, that is unless you can reference any.

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Thank you cormac!

You are surely aware that the skeptics usually assume that Plato invented the Solon story?

Now, what if Plato invented the Solon story, but not the Atlantis story? Just as a thought. Just as a possiblity.

Are you aware that you argue like a believer if you insist that the Solon story has to be true word by word or otherwise it is all worthless?

Just questions ...

_

Because there is no evidence to the contrary from archaeology, geology, contemporary myths or legends so suggest otherwise. Nada, Zip, Zilch.

Then he could only base it on what he knew which would only concern the first millenium BCE. And the name of Atlantis, as an island, would have been known during that time if it were true. It would also invalidate his claim as to Atlantis location, its size, it's military/naval capabilities and its control of a vast area of the Mediterranean. Also its conquering of Egypt but subsequent defeat at the hands of Athens. Also, texts or inscriptions of any kind in Egypt mentioning Atlantis would have been known and talked about far and wide. Yet, there's nothing.

My argument is that one has to start with the story as written and not how they'd prefer to rewrite it to make it more palatable to themselves. The story begins and ends with Plato.

cormac

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You do realize Cormac wasn't indicating that the story of Solon was true don't you? He was specifically referring to the claims made by Plato. A completely different thing.

Correct. I just assumed it went over his head.

cormac

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Please link to the writings myths and legends in those areas supposedly subjugated by Atlantis that could be references to Atlantis.

maybe most but not all, yet there are none, that is unless you can reference any.

You can google it yourself, too many to mention them all. In scandinavia we have thousands of different stories of godlike giants. The nordic mythworld is pretty good known and understood. It also states that giant like creators with superior technology. It also mentions two or three major floods, it also tells of two wars against these gods. They also have a island atlantis like myth story that sank in the sea, it was called utrøst.

The japanese mythology also tells of foreign intervention by gods. The firstone was a god princess sent from the home of the gods to marry the king of japan to build and develop this land. When she got old, things have went very well with the japanese kingdom, she went home to the gods again, left his husbond king and japan. The king was so sad he, and he couldent rule alone, he desided to take a ship and travel 1 000 000 "miles" to get her. He eventually got there and sneaked inside the gatesof the castle. He was told to wait, but he couldent and got a sneak peak of her while sleeping in som sort of device. He saw the real princess as she really was, and got so scared and terrified tht he in a hurry ran and sailed home to japan as fast as he could. ( it went something like that)

The north and southern america alo have lots of stories of giants.

The sumer talk about gods

The bible, noah flood

I am not familiar to all the worlds stories and myths, but i wouldent be suprised if there are alot more, that could be relevant to the atlantis story.

As atlantis was the superpower of that time with a large fleet that ruled the world, at least along the main naval searoutes, one would expect to find stories and myth lots of places around the world. And the fact that they do exist, is very similar, is an argument that speaks in favour of the existence of an atlantis like civilisation in th distant past.

The seven sisters is also a god myth that exists all over the world.

Edited by whitegandalf

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You can google it yourself, too many to mention them all. In scandinavia we have thousands of different stories of godlike giants. The nordic mythworld is pretty good known and understood. It also states that giant like creators with superior technology. It also mentions two or three major floods, it also tells of two wars against these gods. They also have a island atlantis like myth story that sank in the sea, it was called utrøst.

The japanese mythology also tells of foreign intervention by gods. The firstone was a god princess sent from the home of the gods to marry the king of japan to build and develop this land. When she got old, things have went very well with the japanese kingdom, she went home to the gods again, left his husbond king and japan. The king was so sad he, and he couldent rule alone, he desided to take a ship and travel 1 000 000 "miles" to get her. He eventually got there and sneaked inside the gatesof the castle. He was told to wait, but he couldent and got a sneak peak of her while sleeping in som sort of device. He saw the real princess as she really was, and got so scared and terrified tht he in a hurry ran and sailed home to japan as fast as he could. ( it went something like that)

The north and southern america alo have lots of stories of giants.

The sumer talk about gods

The bible, noah flood

I am not familiar to all the worlds stories and myths, but i wouldent be suprised if there are alot more, that could be relevant to the atlantis story.

As atlantis was the superpower of that time with a large fleet that ruled the world, at least along the main naval searoutes, one would expect to find stories and myth lots of places around the world. And the fact that they do exist, is very similar, is an argument that speaks in favour of the existence of an atlantis like civilisation in th distant past.

The seven sisters is also a god myth that exists all over the world.

The people of Atlantis were neither giants nor gods, so what you posted is completely and utterly irrelevant.

You got anything else?

Harte

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You can google it yourself, too many to mention them all. In scandinavia we have thousands of different stories of godlike giants. The nordic mythworld is pretty good known and understood. It also states that giant like creators with superior technology. It also mentions two or three major floods, it also tells of two wars against these gods. They also have a island atlantis like myth story that sank in the sea, it was called utrøst.

The japanese mythology also tells of foreign intervention by gods. The firstone was a god princess sent from the home of the gods to marry the king of japan to build and develop this land. When she got old, things have went very well with the japanese kingdom, she went home to the gods again, left his husbond king and japan. The king was so sad he, and he couldent rule alone, he desided to take a ship and travel 1 000 000 "miles" to get her. He eventually got there and sneaked inside the gatesof the castle. He was told to wait, but he couldent and got a sneak peak of her while sleeping in som sort of device. He saw the real princess as she really was, and got so scared and terrified tht he in a hurry ran and sailed home to japan as fast as he could. ( it went something like that)

The north and southern america alo have lots of stories of giants.

The sumer talk about gods

The bible, noah flood

I am not familiar to all the worlds stories and myths, but i wouldent be suprised if there are alot more, that could be relevant to the atlantis story.

As atlantis was the superpower of that time with a large fleet that ruled the world, at least along the main naval searoutes, one would expect to find stories and myth lots of places around the world. And the fact that they do exist, is very similar, is an argument that speaks in favour of the existence of an atlantis like civilisation in th distant past.

The seven sisters is also a god myth that exists all over the world.

It is well known that myths borrow from older ones so having similar elements within seperate myths is ubderstandable.

If Atlantis was the inspiration for the god myths then the myths would have started closest to the location of Atlantis and spread out. Your hypothesis should have the oldest myths located near the North Sea and spread out to Europe, Middle East, Africa, etc... In Reality, when we look at the oldest myths we find them in the middle east (Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian) and spreading out from there. If your belief that the god myths are tales of Atlantis then Atlantis would have been located in the Middle East or Asia Minor and not the North Sea.

The biblical flood is not a historical accounting but if it were and was a tale about Atlantis, since it locates Noah in the middle east, would further support the Middle East as the location of Atlantis and not the North Sea

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An absurd statement.

Plato knew the number "3,000." He chose the number "9,500."

Why did do this?

To put Atlantis far enough into the past to remove it from his present-day society, as well as to position it in an heroic time period - the "Golden" past when every Athenian was great.

..............

The idea that Plato "meant" 3,000 years when he plainly said otherwise is ridiculous. Where does Plato link the origin of Egypt to the rise of (or fall of) Atlantis?

Remember, all we have here is Plato's words. We have nothing from any priest of Sais, nothing from Socrates (who was dead before Plato wrote of Atlantis) nothing from the character Critias (or Timaeus,) real or imaginary.

Your statement is absurd. First, I did not say that Plato meant 3000 years, but any date after 3000 BC. I am not "calculating" here, not "dividing by 10" or similar nonsense, you got it? Because:

Second, Plato meant a date within the time frame of ancient Egypt. You cannot deny this. For Plato this is a time frame of 10000 years, for us it is upto 3000 BC. If you put Plato's dating into a modern time frame you end up at the end of the ice age. Only weird pseudo-scientists do this. Where does the ice age occur in the Atlantis story? Nowhere of course, but Egypt does. So please do not confuse things. You cannot put ancient datings into modern time frames. Generally not. You also cannot put an islamic dating "after Hidshra" directly into a Christian dating "after Christ".

Third, the time 9000 BC is a mythical time for the Greeks, yes, but not a mythical time for the Egytians, because they have allegedly according to Plato non-mythical, written records about this time. That's the point made by Plato. Again: Meant is always a point in time within the Egyptian history.

Seems, that these insights are too difficult for low-level skeptics.

_

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You do realize Cormac wasn't indicating that the story of Solon was true don't you? He was specifically referring to the claims made by Plato. A completely different thing.

Hm, yes, maybe you confuse the meaning of "Solon story"?

I meant: The story that Solon brought the Atlantis story to Greece.

Additional thought:

You know that Thucycides "invented" the speeches of politicians in his work on the Peloponnesian War. But no one would ever say that this war did not happen. No one would ever say that these speeches did never happen, it's only that Thucycides had no tape recorder and so he composed the speeches in a way which looked realistic to him. Is it too far-fetched to ask the question whether Plato did the same with Solon?

Because there is no evidence to the contrary from archaeology, geology, contemporary myths or legends so suggest otherwise. Nada, Zip, Zilch.

Then he could only base it on what he knew which would only concern the first millenium BCE. And the name of Atlantis, as an island, would have been known during that time if it were true. It would also invalidate his claim as to Atlantis location, its size, it's military/naval capabilities and its control of a vast area of the Mediterranean. Also its conquering of Egypt but subsequent defeat at the hands of Athens. Also, texts or inscriptions of any kind in Egypt mentioning Atlantis would have been known and talked about far and wide. Yet, there's nothing.

My argument is that one has to start with the story as written and not how they'd prefer to rewrite it to make it more palatable to themselves. The story begins and ends with Plato.

Is this a physical reflex always to flee into the statement that nobody ever found something? Look, it is even not clear what to find, as you say yourself, so how can this be an argument, then? - And then you flee back to the literal meaning, like any simple-minded pseudo-scientist. Look, even philologists admit that the story is composed of parts Plato really meant (time frame, catastrophees, etc.) and parts they hold for invented. Could you please be so kind to adjust your opinions to the state of academic research? You know, this does not mean to believe in Atlantis, it does only mean to stop being more dogmatic than necessary, and maybe even ... to start own thinking!

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Hm, yes, maybe you confuse the meaning of "Solon story"?

I meant: The story that Solon brought the Atlantis story to Greece.

Additional thought:

You know that Thucycides "invented" the speeches of politicians in his work on the Peloponnesian War. But no one would ever say that this war did not happen. No one would ever say that these speeches did never happen, it's only that Thucycides had no tape recorder and so he composed the speeches in a way which looked realistic to him. Is it too far-fetched to ask the question whether Plato did the same with Solon?

Is this a physical reflex always to flee into the statement that nobody ever found something? Look, it is even not clear what to find, as you say yourself, so how can this be an argument, then? - And then you flee back to the literal meaning, like any simple-minded pseudo-scientist. Look, even philologists admit that the story is composed of parts Plato really meant (time frame, catastrophees, etc.) and parts they hold for invented. Could you please be so kind to adjust your opinions to the state of academic research? You know, this does not mean to believe in Atlantis, it does only mean to stop being more dogmatic than necessary, and maybe even ... to start own thinking!

Can you substantiate Plato's claims, as written since the story begins and ends with him? If not, you have no argument other than what you'd like to be true. And as written, yes it's clear what should be found, yet nothing has been.

So philologists 'admit' that Atlantis existed 11,500 BP and that it sank in its entirety into the sea due to earthquakes, etc? And you're arguing that it actually occurred <3000 BC. That's absolutely hilarious.

cormac

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Hm, yes, maybe you confuse the meaning of "Solon story"?

I meant: The story that Solon brought the Atlantis story to Greece.

Additional thought:

You know that Thucycides "invented" the speeches of politicians in his work on the Peloponnesian War. But no one would ever say that this war did not happen. No one would ever say that these speeches did never happen, it's only that Thucycides had no tape recorder and so he composed the speeches in a way which looked realistic to him. Is it too far-fetched to ask the question whether Plato did the same with Solon?

To my knowledge, Solon does not mention Atlantis in any of his writings. Surely something as important as that would have deserved some kind of comment by him. The only work we have that indicates Solon learned of Atlantis is in the writings of Plato. We have to wonder where Plato would have gotten the information since none of the other writers mention it and Plato was born 130 years after Solon died. Add to that the fact that not one reference to Atlantis can be found in anything we have discovered in Egypt and you have what amounts to a story with nothing to move it from story to fact.

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Second, Plato meant a date within the time frame of ancient Egypt. You cannot deny this. For Plato this is a time frame of 10000 years, for us it is upto 3000 BC. If you put Plato's dating into a modern time frame you end up at the end of the ice age. Only weird pseudo-scientists do this. Where does the ice age occur in the Atlantis story? Nowhere of course...

Where in the areas mentioned in Critias and Timaeus did the Ice Age occur?

Nowhere, of course.

So please do not confuse things. You cannot put ancient datings into modern time frames. Generally not. You also cannot put an islamic dating "after Hidshra" directly into a Christian dating "after Christ".

No, you are merely moving Plato's date forward in time to match the rise of the Egyptian civilization, a date which neither Plato, nor Solon, nor the fictional priest in Sais was aware of.

Nothing in Plato's writing links any Egyptian date to the time period he gives to Atlantis, other than what I already pointed out - his date for the establishment of Sais, which is absurdly incorrect, but he had no way of knowing either way.

He does not relate Atlantis to Egypt at all, other than by the two dates I quoted.

The Dialogues never state whether Atlantis invaded Egypt. They don't even state whether Egypt even existed in that time period.

The only Egyptian date we get is the date for Sais.

So, where's your justification for changing Plato's allegory here? In your mind?

Harte

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You can google it yourself, too many to mention them all. In scandinavia we have thousands of different stories of godlike giants. The nordic mythworld is pretty good known and understood. It also states that giant like creators with superior technology. It also mentions two or three major floods, it also tells of two wars against these gods. They also have a island atlantis like myth story that sank in the sea, it was called utrøst.

But that must have happened around 2000 BCE:

Sideblikk

Opp gjennom årtusene har det gått store ras i "Eggakanten" rett utenfor Røst. Det yngste raset regnes for å være 4000 år gammelt og skjedde ytterst i "Trænadjupet" som ligger 110 kilometer vest for Værøy. Det er ikke umulig at Utrøst kunne ha ligget ut mot Eggakanten og forsvunnet i dypet undet et av disse gamle rasene.

Crap translation:

Side view

Over the millennia it has undergone major landslide in the "shelf break" outside Røst. The youngest landslide is considered to be 4000 years old and came out at the "Trænadjupet" located 110 kilometers west of Værøy. It is not impossible that Utrøst could have been out to the shelf break and disappeared into the depths undet one of these old breeds.

http://www.mythic-lofoten.com/Kap14GudeneFraNord.html

http://www.mareano.no/nyheter/nyheter_2010/blant_ras_og_korallrev_i_norskehavet

http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mareano.no%2Fnyheter%2Fnyheter_2010%2Fblant_ras_og_korallrev_i_norskehavet

Looking for clues

Researchers from the University of Tromsø has studied the slide and looked for traces of tsunamis. The age of the slide is determined for 4000 years and this slide is regarded as the youngest of several major landslides that have occurred along the shelf edge and continental slope off Trænadjupet. The researchers also looked for signs of tidal waves that probably struck the country, but so far no luck. Perhaps nature has erased all traces, or they have not found the right place yet.

http://www.npd.no/en/Publications/Reports/Petroleum-resources-in-the-sea-areas-off-Lofoten-Vesteralen-and-Senja/Main-geological-features/

The Trænadjupet Slide: a large slope failure affecting the continental margin of Norway 4,000 years ago.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00367-002-0092-z

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@Harte:

@Cormac:

@Qaentum:

I stop here. I do not have the feeling that you really try to think about it.

Funniest was Harte: That the dating of Atlantis is not at all related to Egypt ... good joke!

Bye bye ...!

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