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The Infidel Guy

The Top One Reason Religion Is Harmful

172 posts in this topic

So what is it about religion -- exactly -- that's so harmful?

I've argued many times that religion is not only mistaken, but does more harm than good. But why do I think that is?

Sure, I can make a list of specific harms religion has done, from here to Texas.I've done exactly that. But that's not enough to make my case. I could make long lists of harms done by plenty of human institutions: medicine, education, democracy. That doesn't make them inherently malevolent.

arrow3.gifRead more...

I believe she got it spot on!

PS: I'm back from my holiday :D

Peace

T.I.G

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Yes religion has an armour LOL thats how it lasted so long. The worst of the armour comes from politics no less. You can't get elected unless you believe in a boogy man take your pick. Religion is so armored that even politics has no defense, to be a politician you have to be religious (oxymoron). So in agreement yes, religion is very harmful. More so the H1N1 LOL but you wouldn't think so given that politics is running the show and religion is sitting back going hmmm prayer didn't work this time LOL as if it ever did...

P.S. hope you had a kick ass holiday ;)

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Yes religion has an armour LOL thats how it lasted so long. The worst of the armour comes from politics no less. You can't get elected unless you believe in a boogy man take your pick. Religion is so armored that even politics has no defense, to be a politician you have to be religious (oxymoron). So in agreement yes, religion is very harmful. More so the H1N1 LOL but you wouldn't think so given that politics is running the show and religion is sitting back going hmmm prayer didn't work this time LOL as if it ever did...

P.S. hope you had a kick ass holiday ;)

Obama is Coke and Bush is Pepsi at the end of the day your still drinking the same beverage.

Of course within politics they are going to use religion as majority of the world is Religious to some extent whether they it be Islam, Christianity or Jewish. It's a sad world we live in.

H1N1.... I ain't touching that &*%#@ if you paid me. I like my health... :tu:

PS: I had a kick a$$ holiday and perhaps retiring from Playerism :lol:

Peace

T.I.G

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Obama is Coke and Bush is Pepsi at the end of the day your still drinking the same beverage.

Of course within politics they are going to use religion as majority of the world is Religious to some extent whether they it be Islam, Christianity or Jewish. It's a sad world we live in.

H1N1.... I ain't touching that &*%#@ if you paid me. I like my health... :tu:

PS: I had a kick a$$ holiday and perhaps retiring from Playerism :lol:

Peace

T.I.G

Man, PM some of your holiday pic's LOL

Ok I will branch off here a wee bit. What if politics created religion as means of a more simple control factor? Politics to complex so lets use religion? Man is manipulative and damn if I had a time machine I would so do what I just said LOL.

I would be a god LOL however I would need to become omnipitant and uncaring.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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I believe she got it spot on!

PS: I'm back from my holiday grin2.gif

Peace

T.I.G

It must not have been a good holiday ....for you have come back and bingo...in bumping thread after thread all against religion....no wait, maybe it was a good holiday after all w00t.gif ohh man your two weeks up allready? times flies huh?

On Topic.... I agree it does more harm than good.. thats partly why I stepped away from it all

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It must not have been a good holiday ....for you have come back and bingo...in bumping thread after thread all against religion....no wait, maybe it was a good holiday after all w00t.gif ohh man your two weeks up allready? times flies huh?

On Topic.... I agree it does more harm than good.. thats partly why I stepped away from it all

This had nothing to do with the thread? So what was this post about? Besides the last sentence to justify this post as being a contribution? LOL just kidding making a haha :)

So what is your take that politics happened befor religion and how they are so tight even though it's not suppose to be that way?

It must not have been a good holiday ....for you have come back and bingo...in bumping thread after thread all against religion....no wait, maybe it was a good holiday after all w00t.gif ohh man your two weeks up allready? times flies huh?

On Topic.... I agree it does more harm than good.. thats partly why I stepped away from it all

Edited by The Silver Thong

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This had nothing to do with the thread? So what was this post about? Besides the last sentence to justify this post as being a contribution? LOL just kidding making a haha original.gif

Ohh you made a ha ha...sorry I forgot to ha ha back!!!! I mentioned his holiday just like he did and you too AND if TIG didnt wish for anyone to mention his holiday..he wouldnt have done so himself... in his OP

So what is your take that politics happened befor religion and how they are so tight even though it's not suppose to be that way?

Politics has been going on forever (so it seems)...so has religion...........as to how they got so tight... why dont you tell me? sinse you like to play the post police.. I am sure you will grace us all with that answer

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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This is about the question ofreligion being harmful, not making accusations against other posters - the other posters are NOT the topic.

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I like this article a lot, TIG, one of your best IMO. This is basically what I've been trying to say in my terrorism thread where they are going back and forth on whether religion or political motivations are to blame. My point is - you want to get something done, really want to get something done - put God behind it. You want to promote one group while limiting another, claim it's God's wishes. There's no better way, no more enduring of a method. People can trace political motivations back to people but not God as he seems always unavailable for questioning. You start trying to point that man-made social prejudices have worked their way into religion, they lose it because it all has to be true or this delicate house of cards starts to crumble - that part people are counting on - those wonderful promises of afterlife might just gets some doubts cast on them as well which cannot happen at any cost which is the real danger of religion. People would rather hate on eachother based on gender, sexual affiliation, etc. rather than give up that security of what is waiting for them after they die. It is the absolutely the most effective way to cement that ideal in society. I'll quote the article here because she words this great:

I'm realizing that everything I've ever written about religion's harm boils down to one thing.

It's this: Religion is ultimately dependent on belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after we die.

It therefore has no reality check.

And it is therefore uniquely armored against criticism, questioning, and self- correction. It is uniquely armored against anything that might stop it from spinning into extreme absurdity, extreme denial of reality ... and extreme, grotesque immorality.

The thing that uniquely defines religion, the thing that sets it apart from every other ideology or hypothesis or social network, is the belief in unverifiable supernatural entities. Of course it has other elements -- community, charity, philosophy, inspiration for art, etc. But those things exist in the secular world, too. They're not specific to religion. The thing that uniquely defines religion is belief in supernatural entities. Without that belief, it's not religion.

And with that belief, the capacity for religion to do harm gets cranked up to an alarmingly high level -- because there's no reality check.

Any other ideology or philosophy or hypothesis about the world is eventually expected to pony up. It's expected to prove itself true and/or useful, or else correct itself, or else fall by the wayside. With religion, that is emphatically not the case. Because religion is a belief in the invisible and unknowable -- and it's therefore never expected to prove that it's right, or even show good evidence for why it's right -- its capacity to do harm can spin into the stratosphere.

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From the article quoted in the OP:

I'm realizing that everything I've ever written about religion's harm boils down to one thing.

It's this: Religion is ultimately dependent on belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after we die.

It therefore has no reality check.

And it is therefore uniquely armored against criticism, questioning, and self- correction. It is uniquely armored against anything that might stop it from spinning into extreme absurdity, extreme denial of reality ... and extreme, grotesque immorality.

There is nothing "unique" about religion in this regard. Human beings are little troubled with reality checks when hatching their many and varied belief systems.

Where is the reality check for economic theories? Where is the reality check for political dogma? Where was the reality check for secular delusions, like the phantom "weapons of mass destruction" stockpiled in Iraq? Maybe it's filed next to the reality checks for racial superiority, or tribal superiority, or sports team superiority.

Human beings fight over every dimension along which two human beings can differ. The mother source of harm is not any one dimension of human difference, but the human inability and unwillingness to accommodate those differences.

Many atheists live in a fairy-tale land where religious thought emerges from some different place than economic thought, political thought, racial thought, and relative-penis-size thought. It doesn't. All fighting thoughts come from inside human skulls, and invade other skulls through contact with infected individuals.

And when the dispute is religious, it makes no difference that the religion is atheist.

The Chinese Communist Party exterminated Tibetan Buddhist clergy in the last century, indiscriminately and on industrial scale. This was not "nation building." The Tibetan political leadership was gone. The atheists' victims were generally monastics, of both sexes, whose only crime was to believe in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after they die.

It is obvious that very many atheists would fight, maim, and kill another person over such things, if only they could get away with it. Those atheists think that these thoughts offset the humanity of whoever thinks that way, so that the thinker becomes "fair game."

Tibet is the laboratory which furnishes the experimental evidence. When atheists could get away with it, they killed over these things. And not just killed, but murdered innocent men and women with imaginative invention and unhurried attention to detail.

If religion is a problem, then all religions are problems. The author of the quoted matter is in denial that her atheism is a religion. She thinks that the warm rising of the blood she feels as she lovingly itemizes each and every shortcoming of her fantasy opponent is something rational. Indeed, she thinks the rush is proof of her sobriety.

This is risible, or would be if religiosity were not such a dangerous passion.

Edited by eight bits

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Religion: The politics of fear.

Would it be conceivable that in a day where there was talk about going to hell and all that stuff. That one person could see this as an ideal oppertunity to make others do stuff which were beneficial to him/her? Because otherwise you'd be going to eternal damnation.

While it's already pretty clear hell is a fabrication and so is Satan, well the current image we have of him at least. Yanno with his big fork surrounded by bbq-ed ppl.

It's pervers to scare ppl into doing stuff they essentially might not have done. But now have to because compulsively enough, if they stop doing it, they'll suffer.

Keeping ppl occupied with things like going to church/mosques/whatevers on a regular basis, while this time could be spent otherwise. Maybe in a philisophical debate even, that leaves room for more interpretations then only god.

It's how Bush score points.

Religion seems to be as important as the "man in command" tells everyone it is.

In times where presidents showed doubt in catholicism churches were practically empty. Then suddenly it came back and oooh fear and "if you don't believe you'll be punished" trallaal. Same with Bush .. "if you're not with us you're against us and may god have mercy on your soul" and "god won't be there for you" Puh-lease.

It's like myths/fairy tales to keep children out of the woods at night or something. Just scare them enough and they"ll "correct" themselves when they're about to do something, in the carer's eyes, dangerous.

Edited by Triade

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Haha. Funny how an irrelevant, non-existent celestial bearded guy can drive atheists crazy.

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Haha. Funny how an irrelevant, non-existent celestial bearded guy can drive atheists crazy.

It's rather how that bearded guy is used in conversations, like it would be an explanation to certain questions, that drives certain ppl crazy.

Not the bearded guy in itself.

It's cuz certain ppl become agressive because of this entity. Because everyone just has to believe in it too, otherwise it's no fun and they start doubting themselves and feel insecure and then fearful and then frustrated and agressive and eventually purely hateful and violent.

And it drives certain "atheists" crazy how certain believers keep trying to push their belief onto others. For example again: The Dover intelligent design case.

It's ridiculous, and ppl are wasting and incredible amount of time because of it. And most ppl don't like the feeling of losing time on something irrational and useless.

Edited by Triade

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Haha. Funny how an irrelevant, non-existent celestial bearded guy can drive atheists crazy.

*smiles*Not the non-existing dude. His followers.

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It's like myths/fairy tales to keep children out of the woods at night or something.

Yep. Definitely all about the "followers" and their attempts to "push their belief onto others."

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From the article quoted in the OP:

There is nothing "unique" about religion in this regard. Human beings are little troubled with reality checks when hatching their many and varied belief systems.

Where is the reality check for economic theories? Where is the reality check for political dogma? Where was the reality check for secular delusions, like the phantom "weapons of mass destruction" stockpiled in Iraq? Maybe it's filed next to the reality checks for racial superiority, or tribal superiority, or sports team superiority.

The weapons of mass destruction, good example - a rumor of something claimed to exist, everyone feared. So let's compare that to a similar religious concept - Hell. Now, the reality check - well we went there found out WMD was all BS, it was possible for us to find out. So how do we do that with hell? You can't. We can't go to hell and investigate, those who die and supposedly go there can't ring us up and tell us what it's like. Racial superiority might be close to religion, but I'd say even with that if a certain race makes progress and advancements even that could fade somewhat, at least there's something within the realm of reality that could be argued against it, different than religion where there's no litmus test. Religion is based on faith which is a built in fail-safe, no results are really expected from it where it can prove to be true or false in our reality.

Edited by ChloeB

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So let's compare that to a similar religious concept - Hell. Now, the reality check - well we went there found out WMD was all BS, it was possible for us to find out. So how do we do that with hell?

Hold on. The only way to check whether or not there were WMDs was to do the very thing which the WMD story was invented to support: invade Iraq.

The only way to check the Hell hypothesis is obviously parallel in its timeliness to influence decisionmaking.

Someday? Either you and I will know whether or not there is a Hell, or else we shall cease to exist. Some pious people say that ceasing to exist is the real Hell. Meh.

Call it checked, then, one way or the other, and too late to influence decisionmaking. Just like the WMDs.

So, the two cases really are parallel. A reality check that "checks" only after it is too late to matter is not peculiar to religion.

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Haha. Funny how an irrelevant, non-existent celestial bearded guy can drive atheists crazy.

Actually, since I have never seen evidence of his existence I really don't give two hoots about him.

It's those that have a fanatical belief in him (or others just like him) that scare the bejesus out of me.

Nibs

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Actually, since I have never seen evidence of his existence I really don't give two hoots about him.

It's those that have a fanatical belief in him (or others just like him) that scare the bejesus out of me.

Nibs

I know it's odd concidering god has never hurt a living soul LOL it's all the nuts that follow this bearded phantom.

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This is about the question ofreligion being harmful, not making accusations against other posters - the other posters are NOT the topic.

Ahhh forget it, but it was damn funny LOL

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Hold on. The only way to check whether or not there were WMDs was to do the very thing which the WMD story was invented to support: invade Iraq.

The only way to check the Hell hypothesis is obviously parallel in its timeliness to influence decisionmaking.

Someday? Either you and I will know whether or not there is a Hell, or else we shall cease to exist. Some pious people say that ceasing to exist is the real Hell. Meh.

Call it checked, then, one way or the other, and too late to influence decisionmaking. Just like the WMDs.

So, the two cases really are parallel. A reality check that "checks" only after it is too late to matter is not peculiar to religion.

Right, I see what you're saying. I'm not saying religion is the only thing that gets people to go along with something destructive - my point is what is unique about religion is that unlike everything else it doesn't eventually play out on the scene where we can see where it takes us, where we end up while we're alive.

Edited by ChloeB

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I believe she got it spot on!

PS: I'm back from my holiday :D

Peace

T.I.G

Why do I keep thinking I am a college freshman when reading this kind of thing? People can think what they want, but do atheist (of her kind, the author) have to sound so much alike. I guess some atheist can be the flip side of the coin that religious fanitics are on. Also if I did not believe God, why all the fuss, why waste time on the subject at all. One life, swiftly gone, eternal nothingness awaiting....so why waste time?

BTW glad you had a good holiday :tu:

Peace

Mark

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Why do I keep thinking I am a college freshman when reading this kind of thing? People can think what they want, but do atheist (of her kind, the author) have to sound so much alike. I guess some atheist can be the flip side of the coin that religious fanitics are on. Also if I did not believe God, why all the fuss, why waste time on the subject at all. One life, swiftly gone, eternal nothingness awaiting....so why waste time?

BTW glad you had a good holiday :tu:

Peace

Mark

Why the fuss? Well simple really. People are often trying to either force or merely "educate" there religious beliefs on others. This is seen time and time again not only on this board but in physicality as well where religious groups are in local malls, airports and even door knocking trying to get you to "see the light" so to speak.

What us Atheists do is merely attempt to illuminate the inconsistencies in they're own dogma that they either ignore or fail to recognize.

PS: My holiday was grand and for everyone on here i am "perhaps" retiring from being a player.... :unsure:

Peace

T.I.G

Edited by The Infidel Guy

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I believe she got it spot on!

PS: I'm back from my holiday :D

Peace

T.I.G

Thank goodness you're back from your holiday. Now, you can get back to wasting your precious time bashing the religious some more... :blink:

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Thank goodness you're back from your holiday. Now, you can get back to wasting your precious time bashing the religious some more... :blink:

As usual i come back and you have nothing to contribute but "wasting" your own hopeless time posting things which have nothing to do with the topic..... keep it up.... i see you've put aside this time to embarrass yourself....again.... :rolleyes:

Peace

T.I.G

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