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AndyThorley

Debunking rune stones

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Rune Stones, Tarot cards and other such methods of telling the future...I don't believe in them.

For those who don't know how it works, here's how...

A person has a set of stones, each with a different rune on them (or a set of cards with different pictures on them)...they draw 5 or 6 and from what they find, they come up with some way of making the cards relevant to your life.

I first had mine done back in high school. A self-proclaimed witch (Read: Gothic weirdo who wanted to scare people) read my rune stones. They said I'd end up with lots of money and a big house and lots of kids blah blah blah.

When she'd done it I said, very calmly; "Very good. Now read them again."

We got into a quick debate about how she couldnt POSSIBLY do that again...ultimately resulting in her admitting that she didnt believe in what she was doing.

Debunk #1: If Rune stones/tarot cards meant anything there would be a 100% redraw rate when tried again.

When I had them done a second time (Again, a gothic weirdo looking to scare people) I asked him to draw them again.

"Oh, they'll be different" he said, "the spirit energy is shifting all the time"

"So if I draw again, right now, my future will have changed?"

"Yes."

Debunk #2: The fact that a persons future can change just by standing still and drawing stones/cards again shows that the whole thing is bunk.

When you go to get a reading like this, the medium doesnt actually tell you anything, you tell the medium things. It's like going

"I'm psychic"

"No youre not"

"HA! I knew you were going to say that"

For instance, you draw the death card.

Medium: "This symbolises rebirth. Is there something new in your life recently?"

You: "Yes. Wow, you must be psychic"

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Posted (edited)

It seems that the rune stones that you came in contact with AndyThorley are a modern invention, a gimmick of sorts.

"Runteinir" (rune sticks or rune lots) used for divination were made of wood. Today the rune stone sets are made of ceramic, glass, even plastic. The best rune lots for divination are still wood, carved, blooded, and consecrated by the person who owns them.

The rune stones I looked at are large stone or wood markers found in Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Iceland. They were used as crossroad markers, or to impart messages. Many of them were destroyed by Christian priests and monks when they tried to convert each of these countries. The priests viewed them as reminders of the pagan past. More have been broken up for construction material by those who did not realize their historical significance.

The little stones that I assume you used simply take some of the common symbols found on these original markers in Europe and transpose them onto whatever material.

Here's a map that shows the distribution of rune stones in Europe, Sweden has the most with 2500.

user posted image

Here's a nice picture of a rune stone, notice the markings that are now placed on the gimmick stones you witnessed.

user posted image

Here's a picture of the gimmick stones sold in most novelty and new age shops.

user posted image

Edited by Chauncy

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90% of those out there who set out to tell your fortune are fakes.

The other 10 respect our abilities enough not to try and "cash in" on them. ;P

And Chauncy, m'dear, is correct! As usual! wink2.gif

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chauncy is it just wood? i'd heard the original ones were, except in the story, the original ones were made by odin...so yeah. can't they also be actual stone? ya know, what with "rune stone" and not "rune wood chip"?

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so yeah. can't they also be actual stone?

Absolutely, I said that:)

The rune stones I looked at are large stone or wood markers found in Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Iceland.

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oh ok, i missed that part. cool. w00t for odin! w00t.gif

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Chauncy, you are indeed correct.

It's the gimmicky ones I had read for me, not the big monolith.

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After 3 or 4 hernias(trying to carry the monolith around...), ancient rune readers decided to make the monolith runes into something a bit more portable for any house calls they may have to make...

rolleyes.gif

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Good job AndyThorley on your debunking methods with the 'Gothic wierdos'.

I see it more as a party game sort of deal.....like Twister original.gif

Wonder what those symbols mean?

user posted image

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Good job AndyThorley on your debunking methods with the 'Gothic wierdos'.

It's hardly the gospel truth just because I say so.

(I'd LIKE it to be the gospel truth. but sadly it isnt)

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And besides, you never want to take any kind of "futer reading" as absolute. Infact the people who do use tarots for such, kind of use them as guidelines, or help... like something to do to help you put things in perspective... Kinda like how some people meditate and such.

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AndyThorley Posted on Jun 3 2004, 01:49 PM

A self-proclaimed witch (Read: Gothic weirdo who wanted to scare people)

that made me chuckle... although I do hope it was a generic term whistling2.gifthumbsup.gif

I used to carry a pack of tarot cards everywhere at school.. but it wasn't to scare people.. tongue.gif

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I actually learned to read Tarot Cards. Since each one can have two or more meanings it's relatively easy to tailor an accurate reading to someone you know. If you read them for a stranger you can pick up verbal and physical cues from them and still get a pretty high success rate..

Over all I find that it's kind of like what a stage magician does..

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I had an Auntie that could tell the future with a plain deck of cards. The stuff she told you was wasn't general. She would say, in two weeks you are going to a party with two married men. Then it would happen, just like she said. I have the orginal deck, but I don't think it was the cards, I think it was her. I had her tell my future twice and both times what she said happen. After that I decided I just didn't want to know. Even with all that I don't think the future is fixed.

Peace

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I think the way tarot and runes work is by the energy one sends out. In addition, by doing that, the readings will show that-what one is thinking, feeling, and taps into ones inner conscious, and expressing your energy in a whole and shows the karmic nature that holds with this. But in addition, some readers are phychic and cards can be used as a tool to also see other things.

Where comes a novice or a reader without much knowledge, experience and/or natural ablities to read and counsel...well, one way of looking at it besides entertainment...I think if you were really meant for a true reading you would have been drawn to a "qualtified" reader or listened to your own judgement. Nevertheless, even with a reader that is new and learning may give helpful and beneficial advice.

If you ask the same question twice, usually it is because you were unwilling to accept the original reading and your energy may change the cards to something you would have rather heard...but not in all circumstances. Regardless...each of us are in control of our own destiny and can change roads when we wish to.

Then there also takes into place...the reader may feel insecure to tell exactly what they see (ususally newbies) or may even be reading themselves rather than you...for instance something hit home for them and may realize something new...something like you're going through too. I know in healing fields...the teacher and the student reap the rewards equelly.

Personally, I feel we all have the answers to our own questions and some people often undermine themselves in regards to this...insecurity. But it's also nice to reach out to others too. And it's unforunate that there are many scams out there, but well...you get what you ask for and the best comes when you're ready to give your best...in many circumstances.

I care to say...I do not find it appropriate to label someone Goth in a demeaning way. And to call Goths weirdo's.... it appears to me as your way of describing one Goth makes you better than them.

I find it more appropriate to see one as an individual than a label regardless of religion, sex, rich or poor or....

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I dont use tarot cards or runes .

Whenever I tell someone their future I ask them to put there hand in mine . I transfer some of their energy to myself ( draining psi is easy . If enough people pm me I'll be glad to write something up on it original.gif ) I then try to take this energy and place it to my foreeye . I then picture the future through visualization and it almost always comes up as images of what the person will be doing / where they are going ... pretty interesting as its like flashes of their life .

Ive heard that crystal balls and such increase your ability , but I dont really want to try them . I like to see how far I can go on my own .

For the most part , I agree with what most have said . Many psions / fortune tellers / psychics only want your money . And the fact that you dont always draw the same lot each go when it comes to tarot cards and runes is another part of the reason I have stayed away . cat.gif

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Posted (edited)

AndyThorley Posted on Jun 3 2004, 01:49 PM

A self-proclaimed witch (Read: Gothic weirdo who wanted to scare people)

that made me chuckle... although I do hope it was a generic term whistling2.gifthumbsup.gif

I used to carry a pack of tarot cards everywhere at school.. but it wasn't to scare people.. tongue.gif

Well, Celti...it wasn't a generic term. She really did use the witch card (If you'll pardon my pun) to scare people away.

You know how most people would go "Back off, I've got a knife"

She went "Back off, I'm a witch, I know magic"

(ahhh, she put me under so many hexes because I didn't believe her. Kids, eh? Who'd have 'em)

I think the way tarot and runes work is by the energy one sends out/

Not really...because if it relied on anything other than pure chance there would be some kind of pattern or consistency in the readings.

Regardless...each of us are in control of our own destiny and can change roads when we wish to.

Again, you've just proven the concept of looking to the future to be total bunk.

If you can change the future, you cannot TELL the future.

You may as well predict what shape an ink blot is going to make.

I care to say...I do not find it appropriate to label someone Goth in a demeaning way.

Find a consistent and universal definition of a goth and I'll continue this point. As it happens I've yet to find one on the web...it keeps changing from site to site. Thus, as far as I can see, it's just another label for just another group of people starving for attention who have nothing unique, interesting, mysterious or intellectual about them.

And to call Goths weirdo's.... it appears to me as your way of describing one Goth makes you better than them.

I didn't call all goths weirdos. I called her a weirdo.

Rightfully so, I would say.

I find it more appropriate to see one as an individual than a label regardless of religion, sex, rich or poor  or....

As an individual this girl was indeed a gothic weirdo.

If youre going to demand staff and pupils call you "Moonbeam", turn up to class looking like a black+white mime or sit in class cutting yourself or scratching pentagrams onto the tables, I think youre going to be labelled as weird.

Also worth saying her entry in my leavers book reads "Estuans interius ihra vehementi, Moonbeam, Moonbeam. Incendite tenebras mundi".

I'd be impressed if she hadnt stolen final fantasy lines.

-edit-

Ged my spollang socks.

Edited by AndyThorley

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AndyThorley Posted on Jun 3 2004, 01:49 PM

A self-proclaimed witch (Read: Gothic weirdo who wanted to scare people)

that made me chuckle... although I do hope it was a generic term whistling2.gifthumbsup.gif

I used to carry a pack of tarot cards everywhere at school.. but it wasn't to scare people.. tongue.gif

Well, Celti...it wasn't a generic term. She really did use the witch card (If you'll pardon my pun) to scare people away.

You know how most people would go "Back off, I've got a knife"

She went "Back off, I'm a witch, I know magic"

(ahhh, she put me under so many hexes because I didn't believe her. Kids, eh? Who'd have 'em)

I think the way tarot and runes work is by the energy one sends out/

Not really...because if it relied on anything other than pure chance there would be some kind of pattern or consistency in the readings.

Regardless...each of us are in control of our own destiny and can change roads when we wish to.

Again, you've just proven the concept of looking to the future to be total bunk.

If you can change the future, you cannot TELL the future.

You may as well predict what shape an ink blot is going to make.

I care to say...I do not find it appropriate to label someone Goth in a demeaning way.

Find a consistent and universal definition of a goth and I'll continue this point. As it happens I've yet to find one on the web...it keeps changing from site to site. Thus, as far as I can see, it's just another label for just another group of people starving for attention who have nothing unique, interesting, mysterious or intellectual about them.

And to call Goths weirdo's.... it appears to me as your way of describing one Goth makes you better than them.

I didn't call all goths weirdos. I called her a weirdo.

Rightfully so, I would say.

I find it more appropriate to see one as an individual than a label regardless of religion, sex, rich or poor   or....

As an individual this girl was indeed a gothic weirdo.

If youre going to demand staff and pupils call you "Moonbeam", turn up to class looking like a black+white mime or sit in class cutting yourself or scratching pentagrams onto the tables, I think youre going to be labelled as weird.

Also worth saying her entry in my leavers book reads "Estuans interius ihra vehementi, Moonbeam, Moonbeam. Incendite tenebras mundi".

I'd be impressed if she hadnt stolen final fantasy lines.

-edit-

Ged my spollang socks.

First of all, anyone to threaten black magic should be avoided. I do not know who you are talking about, but it sounds more to me that she has some personal acceptance issues, ect.

In term Gothic weirdo...well, I may have gotten a little defensive because well, I know that not all Goths are "weidos" nor satanic as some may see. And I personally don't like labels, but yet nevertheless...I do still use them too, but I avoid it as much as possible for many reasons being...

that we all are different regardless...yet we all are one.

I know the Goth image is a fad right now, but because one tries to be Goth or claims them one doesn't make them one. And many people that are claiming to be Goth really do not understand it...therefore just being a fake. It isn't about wearing white make-up, tarot cards, wiccans, or vampires...some people are into that. But many of us try new things out..experience here and there with different cultures or ways of being.

*I may not be making a lot of sence in this post...my energy is a bit drained today.*

Here's a link about Goths. It's the best explaination I've seen. The majority I've read in this claims me Goth, but I see myself as an individual and will not claim/identify myself to any label because I don't identify with people who section themselves out of other cultures. I am my own individual. I got interested in reading about "Goths" because I love 80's music, dress 80's, love castles and graveyards...and I've discovered other simularities.

http://www.blood-dance.net/goth/grant.html

My personal experiences with cards, runes ect. I'm keeping this short because my personal experiences aren't yours...but it does in deed work. I've witnessed too many times where info was nailed to the point that noone could have known unless I said.

Andy...I don't care to make you a believer. It's your life and mine is mine and we draw different experiences. I use to not believe in it, but once I started learning about how energy works...I've found truth in it and have had many true readings.

Including myself reading runes. 99% of my readings happen even if I forgot about it or even do not take the advice...it happens. I only read for myself or a few friends. *like I said in the other post...some readers are phychic and runes/cards can be used as tools to help see more.

And I do believe we are in control of our own destiny...maybe in a future post I'll explain this.

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Well andy, when you used the fact that rune readings are always different , you say this proves that runes are total rubbish.

You are the 1 talking rubbish! You obviously know very little about divination.

Runes always give different reading because each of us have loads of different possible future paths. But only one of these could happen. Different rune reading give an insight into the different possible paths of your future.

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Well andy, when you used the fact that rune readings are always different , you say this proves that runes are total rubbish.

You are the 1 talking rubbish! You obviously know very little about divination.

Runes always give different reading because each of us have loads of different possible future paths. But only one of these could happen. Different rune reading give an insight into the different possible paths of your future.

Surely the fact that there're many different futures rubbishes the theory further.

Let us suggest, for a moment, that there is an art of telling the future based on the roll of a dice. Let's call it...the ancient art of...umm...Yahtzee.

I roll the dice.

34535: My future will be filled with riches.

15443: My future will be filled with poverty.

45326: My future will be reasonably well off and moderately impoverished.

You see?

The fact that you draw out a totally different set of runes the second time round isnt because of the many possible futures, it's because of the rules of probability.

It's a case of "heads I win tails you lose" and *nothing* truly reliable can be measured like that.

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When I had them done a second time (Again, a gothic weirdo looking to scare people) I asked him to draw them again.

"Oh, they'll be different" he said, "the spirit energy is shifting all the time"

"So if I draw again, right now, my future will have changed?"

"Yes."

I don’t know about Rune Stones, but Tarot cards, if read properly , will give the same message no matter how many times you re-draw. Many people just memorize the meaning of each card and read them as the same way, instead of reading each card in relation to the other cards.

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