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UltraThunderMan

Twilight

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Everywhere I look nowadays, I see Twilight this or Twilight that. If it isn't that it's some new show with vampires everywhere in it. I read the first Twilight book and it was like something a high school kid read, an average one at that. I realize I'm not the target audience, but these books are a massively popular. To you who like the books or the movies or whatever, why do you like them? What makes this series so great? I would really like to know because I can't figure it out for the life of me.

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I don't like it, but I can tell you why they do.

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???

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It a mary sue fiction that is why they like it.

I freaking hate the thing. Its a disgrace to good books everywhere.

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It is romantic, many of us want to love and be loved by just one person and loved forever.

It is easily relatable too, simple non-complex writing does that, many of the situations she writes about, some of us have been in, such as being interested in someone and they seem to ignore you, and you are like wtf why are they ignoring me? So you find out.

Also for me personally it would be the magic, I love all things magic, dark but also bright light, shining, sparkling magic too.

If any of the above does not appeal to one it is very understandable they will not enjoy Twilight. Also for me not watching any television with commercials helps heaps since I have no clue about the aggressive marketing campaigns and hype which would be a turnoff.

Edited by Rosewin

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Kaysorry.

People, mainly women, eat it up because it is a first person narrative. That's the base here. And, Rose finally hit the nail on the head, people want to love and be loved. Rather, they want to "love" and be "loved" by the ultimate, most handsome, most bad-ass baddy out there, rather than someone who is realistic. More over that, they would prefer a one-night stand with someone like Edward than a life time with their boyfriends or husbands. I've even heard stories of girls breaking up with their boyfriends because they weren't up to scale with Edward (or even that they were waiting for Edward), and Meyer even said she would divorce her husband if she met someone like Edward (now, that's commitment for you! I just don't know who she's committed to. Personally, I think it ought to be the psych ward).

Naturally, it is not about romance or love, it is about class, status, and the conformist in us humans. There's nothing about Edward to love other than his physical appearance, which is described so many times that it is embedded in a reader's brain. Meyer's style of writing is like a vacuum. It sucks a reader in, because it is so easily read, but it also sucks all of the good judgment out of a person, if they're not an experienced reader. It can literally dumb someone down, because they begin looking at the books as reality, instead of fiction. It's a combination of the first person narrative and the overload of description, two giant key points in sucking up your readers. You don't just consume them, you make sure that your reader IS the main character. Bella is not only a reflection of Meyer, but she is so simple and mailable that absolutely any person who reads these books can put themselves in her position. They're not just the reader anymore, they are Bella, and suddenly it comes to the point that they don't just want Bella's life, but that they are living it.

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I find it really sad that so many women seem to think love = completely submiting to the will of a man. Seriously if these books were by a guy there would be book burnings. The mind boggles.

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I find it really sad that so many women seem to think love = completely submiting to the will of a man.

It's the way things should be.

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I find it really sad that so many women seem to think love = completely submiting to the will of a man. Seriously if these books were by a guy there would be book burnings. The mind boggles.

It's the way things should be.

Well, he was as the book constantly points out Gorgeous, and posed that danger, his family is rich and he is super strong and immortal with the prospect of turning her immortal too. OH AND he sparkles like diamonds!!!! DIAMONDS are a girl's best friend!!!! Somehow I think all that is whats reeled the female fans in.

It's the ideal of a petty fantasy. Not my cup of tea...but...

I want total honesty here boys...if the tables were turned and it was about a normal guy who met said female vampire who was stunning, had it all as far as physicality goes anyway...the looks, the bod and to top it off she is rich and seriously only has eyes for you, and may turn you immortal...just curious, does that appeal to you?

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I have read literally hundreds of books. Most have been really good, some have been average, and some have sucked completely. Twilight is average. I don't hate this book, but I DO hate when I see all these teens and even some adults claiming that it is a great novel or anything along those lines. Disclaimer: I've only read the first one, but from what I've heard, it's pretty much the same along the spectrum. The main character has few if any redeeming qualities, and if what EbonyKrow said is true, I find it highly disturbing that this is the kind of life women want. If so, then young girls must be far more emotionally unstable than I've ever known. Bella is a complete wuss and clumsy and narcissistic to boot. She only cared about herself in the first one, even to the extent of everyone else close to her. And Edward, good god. Constantly telling how beautiful someone is or constantly writing about the same thing on every page is BAD WRITING. We get it, he's handsome. But what other redeeming traits does he show in the first book? I didn't see any. I guess the main reason I'm so up in arms about this is because I'm passionate about reading and people will say that it's a "good romance" or "literature" when it really isn't. You want romance, try Wuthering Heights or any of the 5 million novels superior to this one in that genre. But I think that's the problem, today's generation seems to have an extremely short attention span. Perhaps they need it to be written this way for it to be interesting. I don't know, but whatever the reason, I encourage others to always seek out better and better novels, doing so broadens your horizons and teaches you things about the human condition you won't learn from Bella and Edward.

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LOL I personally find it all very amusing ^_^

Alas...this is not the first time something disturbing has amused me. Yes I wont say that I loathe it as much as some, but I too think overall it's trash. But I don't get why people wonder why girls (some guys) like it soo much, why do heaps of guys droll over Megan Fox? (yes I know some don't but we're talking about the legions of guys that do) it's superficial teen-(general) lust, some adults are attracted to it for the same lustful reasons, there's nothing deep about it because it's solely based on physical gratification. Yes there may be no sex until the last book after marriage, but there doesn't need to be, the sexual tension between the two characters is obviously enough.

IMO this story...is purely written in such a way to drain and drag out lust. It feeds the desires of the general hormonal teenager.

Edited by Moon Minion

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I haven't read the Twilight Saga, and don't intend to read them, it's the fact that every damn book or show these day's has Vamps in them. I love to read but I'm a picky reader. Twilight, doesn't appeal to me.

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You want romance, try Wuthering Heights

Wuthering Heights is enjoying an unexpected renaissance in France after Stephenie Meyer fans picked up on repeated references to the novel in Eclipse, the third volume in the bestselling Twilight saga.

At one point during Eclipse, Meyer's heroine Bella quotes Cathy speaking about Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights, saying of her vampire lover Edward that "if all else perished, and he remained, I should still continue to be; and if all else remained, and he were annihilated, the universe would turn to a mighty stranger". Bella is torn between her feelings for Edward and her friend Jacob, a werewolf, much as Cathy is torn between Edgar and Heathcliff in Emily Brontë's classic.

"Sales went up 50% last year and since the start of 2009 they have continued to rise," said a spokeswoman for the book's French publisher Le Livre de Poche. She added that French bookshops have been selling Wuthering Heights alongside Meyer's Eclipse, which has helped to drive sales.

At chain store Fnac, the novel is described as the "favourite book of Bella and Edward, the two heroes of Twilight!" Teenage fansites are buzzing with chat about the book. "Fan de bella" thought it was "GENIAL" and "couldn't stop crying it was so beautiful", while "Flora" from Strasbourg said she'd "adored" it for its "unparalleled violence", its "mad poetry" and "profound passion". "Bella is the dignified descendent of the romantic Victorian heroine, which is seen in her sometimes disproportionate, slightly mad reactions, which are reminiscent of a certain Catherine," said a third commentator.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/mar/16/twilight-vampire-wuthering-heights

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Twilight is popular for the same reasons as the Da Vinci code- it's written in small, easily digestible chunks, so as not to tax the little brains that would quickly give up on reading proper literature. Fact is, the general populace don't want to have to use their brains too much. If you want a good book recommendation, don't look at any best sellers lists.

The target market for such a book is probably the same people who don't usually read anything other than celebrity magazines. :mellow: As an adult, I would be embarrassed to admit I enjoyed reading about teenage vampire's romances.

Equally ridiculous are the adult Harry Potter fanatics. If you want romance then read some of the classics.

Edited by StoneAgeQueen

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At least The Da Vinci Code was well written. There's a difference between writing that's easy to read, and writing that reads like a 13 year old's first attempt at fan fiction.

What's so bad about Harry Potter? HP has morals and advice to live by. I had a friend, a retired nun in her 60s, that loved Harry Potter for the messages he gave to the world. She told me once that she couldn't understand why people (other Christians) couldn't accept Harry, because the message he had to give the world (love, acceptance, loyalty) was stronger than any of the darkness. Anything bad that Harry faced was conquered with love, REAL love. Harry teaches children more than Twilight could ever could. So what's weirder, 40+ year old moms screaming over a 17 year old, or a 60+ nun praising Harry for his strength over poverty? (And besides, Harry Potter isn't a romance. Not in the slightest.)

What does Twilight have? Abuse, obsession...? Consider this list of things that Twilight encourages and/or views as being positives in a human being or in a relationship:

- Beauty is what is important. Outer appearance is the only meaningful thing in a human being, personality, opinion, or the makings of the inner mind have nothing to do with friendships or relationships or being human at all. Bella falls "in love" with Edward before she even knows who he is, and becomes utterly obsessed with his physical characteristics.

- Arranged "marriages" and child brides (imprinting), or pedophilia. Jacob becomes obsessed with Bella's child to the point of planning his marriage to her even before she can think for herself.

- Controlling behavior. Edward doesn't want or allow Bella to visit her friends or family. For one example, he removes the battery from her car so that she can't.

- Stalking. Bella follows Edward's every move, even though he expresses dislike for her and doesn't want her around. Vise versa, after the relationship is engaged, Edward stalks Bella and breaks into her house to watch her sleep at night without her knowing or consent.

- Teenage pregnancy. Yes, eighteen is still a teenager. "Legal adult" doesn't cut it. Most eighteen year-olds do not have enough worldly experience to take care of a child; let alone the maturity to do so.

A couple of other things that Twilight sees as being big positives in a relationship:

- "Real" men are violent predators that women tempt.

- "Real" men are the decision makers.

- Your husband/boyfriend is worthy of worship.

The book is also very demeaning to women. Women have been viewed as unequal to men for centuries, it wasn't until the 1920s that women were given the right to vote. Even today, many women are treated as inferiors. America is the only developed nation to have NOT ratified the CEDAW (Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women).

So, all the women out there, let's go ahead and thank Twilight for bringing us back to the 1900s, when women couldn't think for themselves.

- Women are chattel.

- Weakness is prized in women.

- A woman must lessen herself for her spouse.

- A woman does not have a voice in a relationship; all decision making is done by the man.

- Women tend to be taken over by base instincts and it is up to the man to keep her under control. (See the non-sex scenes in the book and movie.)

(Do want to thank Nibs, she made mention of a lot of that before I ever could.)

Edited by Ebonykrow

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At least The Da Vinci Code was well written. There's a difference between writing that's easy to read, and writing that reads like a 13 year old's first attempt at fan fiction.

What's so bad about Harry Potter? HP has morals and advice to live by. I had a friend, a retired nun in her 60s, that loved Harry Potter for the messages he gave to the world. She told me once that she couldn't understand why people (other Christians) couldn't accept Harry, because the message he had to give the world (love, acceptance, loyalty) was stronger than any of the darkness. Anything bad that Harry faced was conquered with love, REAL love. Harry teaches children more than Twilight could ever could. So what's weirder, 40+ year old moms screaming over a 17 year old, or a 60+ nun praising Harry for his strength over poverty? (And besides, Harry Potter isn't a romance. Not in the slightest.)

What does Twilight have? Abuse, obsession...? Consider this list of things that Twilight encourages and/or views as being positives in a human being or in a relationship:

- Beauty is what is important. Outer appearance is the only meaningful thing in a human being, personality, opinion, or the makings of the inner mind have nothing to do with friendships or relationships or being human at all. Bella falls "in love" with Edward before she even knows who he is, and becomes utterly obsessed with his physical characteristics.

- Arranged "marriages" and child brides (imprinting), or pedophilia. Jacob becomes obsessed with Bella's child to the point of planning his marriage to her even before she can think for herself.

- Controlling behavior. Edward doesn't want or allow Bella to visit her friends or family. For one example, he removes the battery from her car so that she can't.

- Stalking. Bella follows Edward's every move, even though he expresses dislike for her and doesn't want her around. Vise versa, after the relationship is engaged, Edward stalks Bella and breaks into her house to watch her sleep at night without her knowing or consent.

- Teenage pregnancy. Yes, eighteen is still a teenager. "Legal adult" doesn't cut it. Most eighteen year-olds do not have enough worldly experience to take care of a child; let alone the maturity to do so.

A couple of other things that Twilight sees as being big positives in a relationship:

- "Real" men are violent predators that women tempt.

- "Real" men are the decision makers.

- Your husband/boyfriend is worthy of worship.

The book is also very demeaning to women. Women have been viewed as unequal to men for centuries, it wasn't until the 1920s that women were given the right to vote. Even today, many women are treated as inferiors. America is the only developed nation to have NOT ratified the CEDAW (Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women).

So, all the women out there, let's go ahead and thank Twilight for bringing us back to the 1900s, when women couldn't think for themselves.

- Women are chattel.

- Weakness is prized in women.

- A woman must lessen herself for her spouse.

- A woman does not have a voice in a relationship; all decision making is done by the man.

- Women tend to be taken over by base instincts and it is up to the man to keep her under control. (See the non-sex scenes in the book and movie.)

(Do want to thank Nibs, she made mention of a lot of that before I ever could.)

Hmmm...came in to post a rant but I see that EK has it covered.

:tu:

Nibs

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See, this is what I don't understand. I think Meyer was a Lit Major. That's very strange that someone who's read so much is such a bad writer at times. I'm glad to see the above article, now people can enjoy one of the greatest novels ever written.

It is great you are glad and I am going to have to agree with StoneAgeQueen. It is written rather simply for mass accessibility. This is not necessarily a bad thing and it can be seen as quite condescending to telling Twilight fans to go read something better. There are many books written targeting different demographic groups and one would not tell a child to not read a children's book and instead pick up one of the classics regardless of what anyone else was reading at that age.

Many also like Twilight including those who regularly read more difficult material. It is not an agreed fact she is a bad writer. I see nothing truly terrible with her writing and grew up reading, Anne Frank Diary by 8, encyclopedia set by 10, lots of other books but that is really beside the fact. Twilight is not high literature thus should not be derided for not being so. It was written with a specific audience in mind but has captured the hearts and minds far beyond that target audience.

Twilight might not be written as well as Harry Potter but the that does not always mean well liked. It is likely S Meyer poured her soul into Twilight which is where the magic comes from.

At least The Da Vinci Code was well written. There's a difference between writing that's easy to read, and writing that reads like a 13 year old's first attempt at fan fiction.

Still many like it regardless of such an opinion. Does she even have a history of writing fan fiction or is this some kind of common complaint by those who themselves have read much fan fiction written by 13 year old's thus are able to compare?

- Beauty is what is important.

Many believe beauty to be quite important so Meyer is not alone. Nothing wrong with beautiful people or celebrating the fact either.

- Your husband/boyfriend is worthy of worship.

Just as much as a wife/girlfriend is worthy of being worshipped back. At least I would imagine this makes for the best type of marriages. I want to be adored times infinity!

So, all the women out there, let's go ahead and thank Twilight for bringing us back to the 1900s, when women couldn't think for themselves.

Women from the 1900s are quite appealing, at least to me. I like old fashioned. I am sure there were many strong marriages back then regardless of how society acted. Supposedly we have all these social rights today but marriages are failing and truth be told there are not many women out there I would want to be married to because they are just not 'womanly' to me and not even 'girlish' either. I am glad my wife is old fashioned. A few of us would have liked it better back then, not because society was better, but because people were not as wrapped up as much in society as they were in just everyday ordinary living like some folks tend to do and enjoy.

Edited by Rosewin

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At least The Da Vinci Code was well written.

The Da Vinci code was terribly written. :blink: At best it's something to pass the time at an airport then throw away once you reach your destination.

Edited by StoneAgeQueen

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Hmmm...came in to post a rant but I see that EK has it covered.

:tu:

Nibs

One step ahead. :D

It is great you are glad and I am going to have to agree with StoneAgeQueen. It is written rather simply for mass accessibility. This is not necessarily a bad thing and it can be seen as quite condescending to telling Twilight fans to go read something better. There are many books written targeting different demographic groups and one would not tell a child to not read a children's book and instead pick up one of the classics regardless of what anyone else was reading at that age.

Then I guess I've never graded work handed in by 13 year olds before. :( I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they need to go pick up Shakespeare, but I am saying that Meyer can't write. Great, people want to read something simple, but WHY are they all, "OMG Myer is teh best weriter VERRRRR!!!!!"? She's supposed to have a degree in English, but I don't know how she even managed to pass her first writing class. :/

Many also like Twilight including those who regularly read more difficult material. It is not an agreed fact she is a bad writer. I see nothing truly terrible with her writing and grew up reading, Anne Frank Diary by 8, encyclopedia set by 10, lots of other books but that is really beside the fact. Twilight is not high literature thus should not be derided for not being so. It was written with a specific audience in mind but has captured the hearts and minds far beyond that target audience.

Are you also an English major and an author? It's not agreed upon by readers, but I'm not aware of any respectable author that believes Meyer can write.

Twilight might not be written as well as Harry Potter but the that does not always mean well liked. It is likely S Meyer poured her soul into Twilight which is where the magic comes from.

She didn't just pour her soul--well. You already know where I stand on that. :tu:

Still many like it regardless of such an opinion. Does she even have a history of writing fan fiction or is this some kind of common complaint by those who themselves have read much fan fiction written by 13 year old's thus are able to compare?

Like I said, I've gone through papers by thirteen year olds before. I used to assist in a few of my English classes in high school, so I know what a kid's writing looks like. It looks like Twilight.

Many believe beauty to be quite important so Meyer is not alone. Nothing wrong with beautiful people or celebrating the fact either.

Well, there is a problem when that's ALL you care about.

Just as much as a wife/girlfriend is worthy of being worshipped back. At least I would imagine this makes for the best type of marriages. I want to be adored times infinity!

I'll just phone up your wife and let her know you want to be treated like a god, okay? That's generally what the word "worship" is intended to describe.

Women from the 1900s are quite appealing, at least to me. I like old fashioned. I am sure there were many strong marriages back then regardless of how society acted. Supposedly we have all these social rights today but marriages are failing and truth be told there are not many women out there I would want to be married to because they are just not 'womanly' to me and not even 'girlish' either. I am glad my wife is old fashioned. A few of us would have liked it better back then, not because society was better, but because people were not as wrapped up as much in society as they were in just everyday ordinary living like some folks tend to do and enjoy.

Again, been through this too. It isn't about the style of the 1900s, it's about the beliefs of a woman's rights.

The Da Vinci code was terribly written. :blink: At best it's something to pass the time at an airport then throw away once you reach your destination.

How so? Awful typos, run-ons, dreadful repetition, with tons of purple prose to fill in all of the places that are missing action and genuine thought?

Edited by Ebonykrow

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It is great you are glad and I am going to have to agree with StoneAgeQueen. It is written rather simply for mass accessibility. This is not necessarily a bad thing and it can be seen as quite condescending to telling Twilight fans to go read something better. There are many books written targeting different demographic groups and one would not tell a child to not read a children's book and instead pick up one of the classics regardless of what anyone else was reading at that age.

Many also like Twilight including those who regularly read more difficult material. It is not an agreed fact she is a bad writer. I see nothing truly terrible with her writing and grew up reading, Anne Frank Diary by 8, encyclopedia set by 10, lots of other books but that is really beside the fact. Twilight is not high literature thus should not be derided for not being so. It was written with a specific audience in mind but has captured the hearts and minds far beyond that target audience.

Condescending or not, when people say that it is a great book but haven't read anything better, it gets under my skin. It's great because they have nothing to judge it against and then will fiercely defend their opinion. Again, I am talking about the first book and only that one, I haven't read any other ones. If you are reading more difficult material or have read classics or great literature, then you have to understand what I'm talking about. I called her a bad writer sometimes because she makes such novice mistakes, mistakes you won't see any lit major with decent abilities make. But she's graduated with that degree so she should be beyond making them. At the very least her editor messed up even letting the book get made that way. But I guess that point is meaningless now because everyone will buy it anyhow.

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People only fiercely defend their decision when one fiercely attacks it. I am not going to waste my time debating first time readers their opinion on other titles when they have only read one lol but I can understand why some simply hate the hype.

Edited by Rosewin

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It's not hating the hype, Rosewin. You seem to think we have negative opinions of Twilight specifically because of all the hype surrounding it. This is the opposite of the truth. The hype only bothers us because there is SO MUCH hype for something so incredibly, astonishingly mediocre. Were Twilight up to average standards, we wouldn't give a damn if it got hyped like the Blair Witch Project got hyped. But Twilight isn't up to average standards - if you look up 'Mediocre' in the dictionary, you'll find "# - See Twilight".

And what bothers me the most isn't even the questionable content of the books. I've read worse. A series called The Lives of the Mayfair Witches, by Anne Rice. These stories are nausea-inducing and sickening on levels Meyer dare not even aspire to (As one of the weakest examples of 'o_0' moments in those stories, in the first one we're introduced to a thirteen year old girl, who frankly states that she didn't lose her virginity - she demolished it. Years ago. Thoughout the series she uses seduction to try to get her way.)

What bothers me the most is that Meyer wrote something mediocre and simple, she purposefully wrote down to her target audience - and they're obsessed with it. She purposefully wrote a story in a manner that makes it the literary equivalent of Hamburger Helper, and almost an entire generation of girls are eating it up when they have the option of something better.

It doesn't just bother me, it disturbs me.

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I don't even think "disturbs" quite cuts it for me.

I don't like Anne Rice either, but I can say that her audience isn't 12, 13, and 14 year old girls. Her audience is much, much older, she can write whatever the hell she wants and her readers aren't going to be like, "OOHHH I should go do this!" (Still, I don't support her or her books. Just saying that the only thing different between Rice and Meyer is the audience in this case.)

Edited by Ebonykrow

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Well, that and writing skill. I'm not calling her a skilled writer, but Rice is definitely better with the pen. I've called Meyer a Deranged Rice Fanficcer before, and meant it.

Plus Rice herself kind of bothers me. She threatens to sue any fanfic site that hosts fanfics of her stories. This is the woman who got her start writing BDSM ero-fanfics of Sleeping Beauty, for Christ's sake. Slightly hypocritical. I hope Charles Perrault haunts her mercilessly for it.

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