Mommy Posted December 31, 2009 #176 Share Posted December 31, 2009 We had American companies trading with Germany all thru WW2. Why would they have not continued to do so even if Germany won the war? KennyB I was talking about WWI as far as trading goes and Germany would not have won WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurthurBB Posted December 31, 2009 #177 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Yeah. Asides from the whole assumption that we were in a position to verify any attack, sure. That would have stopped them. The Japanese were known for backing away from a fight. Way to judge character. It really makes me laugh to think that some people believe we ever entered a war for another country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted December 31, 2009 #178 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Yeah. Asides from the whole assumption that we were in a position to verify any attack, sure. That would have stopped them. The Japanese were known for backing away from a fight. Way to judge character. The U.S. knew where those ships were from the time they left Japan. They had plenty of time to get the captial ships lit off and ready. The carriers were already at sea. 12 submarines were setting in their pens, loaded and ready to go. They had a few B-17s and had more coming in. They had hundreds of P-40s on the ground, ready to go. They had plenty of time to get those ships out to sea. Ships have never won a battle against land-based bombers. Yamamoto knew that. If he came on, he would have lost his entire fleet before he even got in range to launch his planes. He would probably have gone to the Philipeens and attacked Manila, that would have put us at war. But we would be in much better shape because we wouldn't have lost any ships at Pearl. That's what that traitor Roosevelt should have done. He just gave them the fleet at Pearle. He could have brought all the capital ships we had in the Atlantic thru the Panama Canal and threw them against the Japanese, too. We could have defeated them in short order. Never had to use the A-bombs. We could have fire bombed them till there wasn't a stick of wood in the islands. Japan would never have attacked us with all that firepower facing them. They would have had to withdraw from China and Korea and make peace with us so we'd raise the embargo. KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted December 31, 2009 #179 Share Posted December 31, 2009 It really makes me laugh to think that some people believe we ever entered a war for another country. They would back away if they didn't think they had the edge. At Pearle, they didn't make another sortie because they didn't know where the carriers were. They would have backed off if we had sent that whole fleet from Pearle at them, especially with those land-based planes. If they didn't we'd have sunk them all. KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted December 31, 2009 #180 Share Posted December 31, 2009 They would back away if they didn't think they had the edge. At Pearle, they didn't make another sortie because they didn't know where the carriers were. They would have backed off if we had sent that whole fleet from Pearle at them, especially with those land-based planes. If they didn't we'd have sunk them all. KennyB BB, If we didn't enter the Korean war and the Vietnam war for South Korea and South Vietnam, why did we enter them? KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadetak Posted December 31, 2009 #181 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) We just don't go to war because we are nice and want to help and other fluffy cloud BS we have other motives. Edited December 31, 2009 by Cadetak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted December 31, 2009 #182 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Isn't really that hard to imagine. A near global ELE, complete economic crash, etc. Wouldn't be that hard for a charismatic leader to capitalize on something like that and sucker other leaders as well as individuals into a global union of some sort. We already have an EU. If Dubya could rally a somewhat 80%+ approval rating in the states during 9/11 by using it as an advantage, imagine what someone a lot brighter may be capable of... Dubya wasn't much, but his crew and the Mossad blew those buildings down and convinced the sheeple the Muslims did it and went over and jumped on Iraq. It didn't take the sheeple long to figure out they'd been lied to, but it was too late. KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted December 31, 2009 #183 Share Posted December 31, 2009 We just don't go to war because we are nice and want to help and other fluffy cloud BS we have other motives. BS, Cadetak. We just couldn't stand the thought of those dirty ol Huns conquering our Mother England. KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousman Posted December 31, 2009 #184 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) Seriously Kenny: read some history books - NOT from a conspiracy section - about fascism. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is a heavy tome but worth the effort, with respect to the Nazis. I know this is insulting, but you really don't have a clue. Edited December 31, 2009 by Obviousman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousman Posted December 31, 2009 #185 Share Posted December 31, 2009 KennyB - further to my post above, I'd like to start a new thread and talk about various historical events, specifically the rise of the Nazis and their plans for a post-Nazi victory in the UK, Europe and other places. Would you participate in such a thread? I raise this specifically to try and correct what I consider are gross inaccuracies in your understanding in history. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MID Posted December 31, 2009 #186 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Dubya wasn't much, but his crew and the Mossad blew those buildings down and convinced the sheeple the Muslims did it and went over and jumped on Iraq. It didn't take the sheeple long to figure out they'd been lied to, but it was too late. KennyB Wow, alot of thought went into that. And alot of Internet surfing of the nut-bomb sites, I imagine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted December 31, 2009 #187 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) It really makes me laugh to think that some people believe we ever entered a war for another country. Screw the other countries. We go to war to advance our own interests. The U.S. knew where those ships were from the time they left Japan. They had plenty of time to get the captial ships lit off and ready. The carriers were already at sea. 12 submarines were setting in their pens, loaded and ready to go. They had a few B-17s and had more coming in. They had hundreds of P-40s on the ground, ready to go. They had plenty of time to get those ships out to sea. Ships have never won a battle against land-based bombers. Yamamoto knew that. If he came on, he would have lost his entire fleet before he even got in range to launch his planes. He would probably have gone to the Philipeens and attacked Manila, that would have put us at war. But we would be in much better shape because we wouldn't have lost any ships at Pearl. That's what that traitor Roosevelt should have done. He just gave them the fleet at Pearle. He could have brought all the capital ships we had in the Atlantic thru the Panama Canal and threw them against the Japanese, too. We could have defeated them in short order. Never had to use the A-bombs. We could have fire bombed them till there wasn't a stick of wood in the islands. Japan would never have attacked us with all that firepower facing them. They would have had to withdraw from China and Korea and make peace with us so we'd raise the embargo. KennyB Wow, your understanding of the Japanese psyche in general and of the Japanese warrior specifically, is truly outstanding. They would back away if they didn't think they had the edge. At Pearle, they didn't make another sortie because they didn't know where the carriers were. They would have backed off if we had sent that whole fleet from Pearle at them, especially with those land-based planes. If they didn't we'd have sunk them all. KennyB Of course they would have! The Japanese always shied away from a lost cause. They never charged machine gun nests with swords drawn. They even displayed this logical approach to combat magnificently at The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot. Kenny, you are guilty of ethnocentrism. Edited December 31, 2009 by aquatus1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfieboy Posted December 31, 2009 #188 Share Posted December 31, 2009 i cant help but wonder how much of this story has to do with, the recently signed agreement between russia and iraq. concerning the main oil reserves are to be marketed by the russians. now if memory serves me right. the usa spent a considerable amount of money to free up those reserves from the grip of their former dictator. so capitalism being what it is. are we not due some form of compensatory payment from these revenues. and how the hell did we drop the ball on this one?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoIverine Posted December 31, 2009 #189 Share Posted December 31, 2009 i cant help but wonder how much of this story has to do with, the recently signed agreement between russia and iraq. concerning the main oil reserves are to be marketed by the russians. now if memory serves me right. the usa spent a considerable amount of money to free up those reserves from the grip of their former dictator. so capitalism being what it is. are we not due some form of compensatory payment from these revenues. and how the hell did we drop the ball on this one?? I'm not suprised we did. Incompetence abounds at all levels apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hound Posted December 31, 2009 #190 Share Posted December 31, 2009 continues - http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/baldwin/091211 If it doesn't and sometime soon, I'm going to have more firepower than the ATF will find more than anyone person should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hound Posted December 31, 2009 #191 Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) The Masons are prepared for it, well most are. What do think we spend sometime talking about when the lodge is in session? Edited December 31, 2009 by Graveyard Hound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted January 2, 2010 #192 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Screw the other countries. We go to war to advance our own interests. Wow, your understanding of the Japanese psyche in general and of the Japanese warrior specifically, is truly outstanding. Of course they would have! The Japanese always shied away from a lost cause. They never charged machine gun nests with swords drawn. They even displayed this logical approach to combat magnificently at The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot. Kenny, you are guilty of ethnocentrism. A1, There's a big difference between an isolated garrison making suicide charges and a Western educated military genius like Yamamoto sending his main carrier battle fleet into certain destruction against land based bombers and battleships. That battle fleet represented the cream of the Japanese Navy. If he had lost that fleet in a suicidal battle, he would have had to commit hari-kari. They fought like hell at the Marianas because they had to. They had got caught in a trap and attacked by American planes. We knew where they were but they didn't know where we were until the battle was nearly over. After that, every engagement of the war was suicidal. KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurthurBB Posted January 2, 2010 #193 Share Posted January 2, 2010 BB, If we didn't enter the Korean war and the Vietnam war for South Korea and South Vietnam, why did we enter them? KennyB Do you really not know? Are you completely ignorant to cold war history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Being Posted January 2, 2010 #194 Share Posted January 2, 2010 The US will collapse into civil war when it loses superpower status. What will happen is that some states will try to rejoin Europe and apply to be members of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted January 2, 2010 #195 Share Posted January 2, 2010 KennyB - further to my post above, I'd like to start a new thread and talk about various historical events, specifically the rise of the Nazis and their plans for a post-Nazi victory in the UK, Europe and other places. Would you participate in such a thread? I raise this specifically to try and correct what I consider are gross inaccuracies in your understanding in history. Thank you. And what makes you such an authority? What are your credintals? From what I've seen, you're nothing but a camp-follower, never posting anything new, just jumping in in support of the ones you think are the brains of the forum. Just watching the TV doesn't make you a professional historian. KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted January 2, 2010 #196 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Do you really not know? Are you completely ignorant to cold war history? Enlighten me. KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conspiracybeliever Posted January 2, 2010 #197 Share Posted January 2, 2010 KennyB - further to my post above, I'd like to start a new thread and talk about various historical events, specifically the rise of the Nazis and their plans for a post-Nazi victory in the UK, Europe and other places. Would you participate in such a thread? I raise this specifically to try and correct what I consider are gross inaccuracies in your understanding in history. Thank you. Why would we need to know these things to realize we are coming to a civil war in the US? I mean a civil war would be a war between different sides in our own country right? It would be discontent in our own country. What does that have to do with the Nazis and all the other places? We've had a civil war before. Couldn't we just look at that part of OUR history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousman Posted January 2, 2010 #198 Share Posted January 2, 2010 It's not about teaching you what has happened during civil wars, it's about teaching some people about the intentions of regimes like the Nazis and the militaristic Japanese empire of the WWII era; about how they came to power, why they were successful, how they operated, and what the world would have been like if they had won. Some people have incredibly naive beliefs like 'if you don't bother them, they won't bother you'. Why would we need to know these things to realize we are coming to a civil war in the US? I mean a civil war would be a war between different sides in our own country right? It would be discontent in our own country. What does that have to do with the Nazis and all the other places? We've had a civil war before. Couldn't we just look at that part of OUR history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterAdam Posted January 3, 2010 #199 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Would this war be bigger than the East Coast vs West Coast war of the early 90's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted January 3, 2010 #200 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Why would we need to know these things to realize we are coming to a civil war in the US? I mean a civil war would be a war between different sides in our own country right? It would be discontent in our own country. What does that have to do with the Nazis and all the other places? We've had a civil war before. Couldn't we just look at that part of OUR history? CB, You are right. I'm sorry I participated in derailing the thread. I won't post anymore about WW2 on this thread. KennyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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