My theory why we can't find Bigfoot

[lightly]

Brilliant. Why haven't biologists thought of this?

Thanks Neognosis! best laugh i've had all day ... i probably shouldn't.. but my personal BigFoot postulation is that they are inter dimensional beings/creatures which forage for food, or "hide" if they want to, in many different dimensions. .. haha ..told ya i shouldn't.

[psyche101]

No, not necessarily. The population of the US is approximately 308480000 and of that on average only 69000 people are hit by cars every year and the vast majority of these accidents occur in URBAN areas. Only around 180,000 pedestrians have been killed in motor vehicle accidents between 1975 and 2005, 72% of these people died in an urban environment.

Most serious bigfoot researchers would not claim that the entire bigfoot population amounts to 180,000 individuals, it is distinctly possible that if the creature is real it's actual population might not even number in the thousands. Given that it is also likely we would be dealing with a species that is intelligent enough to avoid humans and posesses more acute senses than us it is not reasonable to use the fact that a specimen has never been hit by a car in the environment where fewest pedestrian accidents occur as proof that they do not exist, it is extremely poor logic.

To add to evans post, the above statistics to me also mean that Biff should have succumbed to an altercation by now, as you say Urban accidents account for 72% of those fatalities, I think you will find that due to the nature of rural environments (bends, poorly-maintained roads and higher speed limits) push that statistic considerably higher, and when one considers every know animal has been hit by a car from bugs to bears (insect roadkill is counted) I find it completely unbelievable that not one "Sasquatch" has had the unfortunate distinction of joining those ranks. One would expect more "Sasquatch" accidents to occur in a rural environment where the likelihood of actually surviving an encounter is slim. I think that the ideal of a single animal escaping this common event which has claimed specimens of every other known species, including man, is not exactly logical either.

[psyche101]

I'm technically a "believer" (I dislike saying that word because it sounds very cultish) and in defence of those nasty sceptics it has to be said that with the yowie - Australia's bigfoot - there is far more hoaxing and fabrication than their is actual evidence of their existence. It has always been that way - we are a nation of straight-faced larrakins.

We do seem to have a history of such considering the Drop Bear and the Hoop Snake.

Doesn't everyone enjoy a good chuckle?

[+DieChecker]

I think it goes without saying that if Mak claimed he had a biff hair he received from Henner, that Henner would have already evaluated it.

After all, Henner is where all enthusiasts, credentialed and not, send hairs for analysis. Including Meldrum.

To have it evaluated it would have ended up back in Henner's hands.

What?..... So, if I was to send this hair to someone I contacted at a Primate research center and said I had a hair that I thought was from a bigfoot, they would send it to Henner? Myself I would send the hair in and tell them it was from an African friend who said it was a gorilla hair, and see what they said from that POV.

Which one? In the end it was explained as three to account for the inconsistencies.

Geez mate, near every single member saw massive holes in it. Even Mak was dubious in PM. I am afraid it would appear the Neo is right. You are losing your objectivity.

Well, I guess there have been some other stories. The one I know is the one where Odie found some tracks, followed them and after a while found a small family, then ran off. From what I know he has never changed that story. But, there have been other threads, and I do not read all of them. I only actually picked up on this thread after many pages.

Gosh mate, after all the possibilities we have discussed over the last couple of years, it comes down to this? What happened to investigation, plausibility and confirmation?

Isn't that what I am promoting? That we investigate and confirm before trashing a report?

According to the above statement, you need to give Tom Biscardi total validation. Well done.

In a way I am. I am saying dispite his horrible things he has done, even reports by Biscardi should be investigaged before trashing them.

As a serious explanation?

You have to be kidding.

Sure. Aren't Aliens as much or more possible then Bigfoot?

Please tell me you are kidding. You are not talking Vallee's inter-dimensional Hypothesis, you are talking about a species that happened to evolve into similar life forms to earth, that jump into spaceships and whizz through the darkness across impossible distances to pee in our crop fields. Good God man.

Well, not pee in the crop fields, but maybe run around doing field work in Earth's forests and other wildernesses. Even if the BFs are not the aliens themselves, they could be something like a living field camera for the ETs.

Why would you ask that? Keep moving the goal posts on that one don't you!

You claimed that people were so arrogant and complacent with vehicles that they literally jump out in from of them. I proved that is not the case. Do you realise how many children are seriously injured and killed by cars backing out of driveways each month?

I have no idea how many children are killed, but I'm assuming that those children live near the car and that they are simply not aware the car is even on. BF has none of those faults.

Since when did the question move from behaviors to statistics?

Bud, I am not psychic, you have to be clearer, or more consistent.

One would have been hit by now, if such existed. And they have. Hobo's have been hit by cars.

I've been consistant with saying that one should have been hit by now. In almost every post I admit that. I'm just pointing out that statistically there is quite a lot of wiggle room, if one wants to be a true believer and claim one has never been hit, there is a definate, but small percent chance that it is true.

That is my point. There is no exception to the Biff rule is there? No curious Youngster, no accident victims, no conflict. Pretty much every species on earth makes a spectacle of themselves in some way by an individual bucking standard behavior patterns. I suspect Natural Selection might have hand in that. Not so with Biff.

I'm sure there are lots of encounters that involve accidents with BFs and young BFs, but for whatever reason none have ever turned up any evidence.

Many, many species, Orangutans included learn from watching, like the spear fishing Orangutan.

Do we have examples of Orangs using machetes, or matches, or rope, or pots, or binoculars, or any of the hundreds of other objects that field researchers or villagers will have available? Because using the same logic, orangs would be using those by now too, as they have shared the same regions with humans for thousand of years.

How can they possibly be watching us closely for ten thousand years, learned what guns are, and how devastating they are, and manage the incredible feat of staying hidden for so long, yet not have the intelligence to try replicating use of one of our tools?

Not plausible I'd say.

How long would the BFs have to watch us... each. Since most apes can not really teach, the BFs would have to basically congigate in hundreds in peoples back yards to actually learn anything.

Comparing early hominids is detrimental. How many revolutions have arisen by observing others? Spear hunting took of like Wildfire in NA ten thousand years ago. The development is simply speeding up, prompted by the Industrial Revolution, it is not like it was never there.

But that is the power of Homo Sapiens Sapiens. They can learn from others and thus technology speeds up, inventions compounding on each other. The poor ape has to reinvent the wheel individually each time.

Hominids are well known. This proposed creature is described by all accounts as Hominid. The Bili Ape was identified as a fifth sub-species of Chimpanzee from a scat sample because we recognise the markers.

I think I have badly phrased something here. Could the tracks of a dragon be confirmed as belonging to a dragon, if dragons are not recognized by science? Then using the same idea, we can say that it is impossible to prove that a BF has been tracked, or not, because it is not a animal recognized by science.

No, not necessarily. The population of the US is approximately 308480000 and of that on average only 69000 people are hit by cars every year and the vast majority of these accidents occur in URBAN areas. Only around 180,000 pedestrians have been killed in motor vehicle accidents between 1975 and 2005, 72% of these people died in an urban environment.

Most serious bigfoot researchers would not claim that the entire bigfoot population amounts to 180,000 individuals, it is distinctly possible that if the creature is real it's actual population might not even number in the thousands. Given that it is also likely we would be dealing with a species that is intelligent enough to avoid humans and posesses more acute senses than us it is not reasonable to use the fact that a specimen has never been hit by a car in the environment where fewest pedestrian accidents occur as proof that they do not exist, it is extremely poor logic.

Thank you.

There are no inconsistencies. If you would have understood what you read, or maybe even read it without just glancing through you would see that there are no inconsistencies. I was talking about THREE DIFFERENT encounters, the first one was a DEFINITE sighting but the other two may have possibly been something else. The second was just a split second sighting and the third was nothing but a lot of evidence that pointed in the direction of BF.

Can you link to the three different stories? If so, then people will be able to point out whatever inconsistancies they are talking about. Or, maybe repost them here.

If I were you, I'd write down my story/sitings in a Word document and then add to it if needed. But, at least your story will be consistant at that point.

[Neognosis]

ure. Aren't Aliens as much or more possible then Bigfoot?

Aliens are more plausable, because we don't know as much about space as we do about our own ecosystem. We don't reasonably know that there are no aliens. Though there is no evidence for them either.

[Gigmaster]

Criminals on the run from the law are as desperate as possible to NOT be found, and certainly have modern human intelligence, in addition to a knowledge of current technology. Yet, with the exception of maybe D. B. Cooper, all are eventually apprehended.

This argument won't hold water.

If Bigfoot really existed, it would be very easy to simply capture pictures of one with judiciously placed 'Critter Cams'. They are used routinely (and successfully) to photograph very shy and rare species. They are also known as 'Trail Cams'.

I know many of you think Bigfoot isn't real because it would of been found by now, but what if it is real and I have a good and possible theory. Why we haven't found the species yet. If Bigfoot is an animal. I could imagine it being very intelligent. Don't any of you think that maybe this species knows how to hide well from humans. Like for example.

So maybe an animal like bigfoot has near human intelligence and we haven't found it because they can hide well.

1. If someone comes by they hide quickly.

2. They might know how to hide their tracks and evidenice which is probably why we only found very few evidence.

3. we probably haven't found a dead body because they know how to bury their dead.

and 4. They are noctural and come out at night but might come out in the day if they have too. For most of the day they could be underground. I know you might find it strange but what if the way they get underground is by caves which could be connected.

So maybe an animal like bigfoot has near human intelligence and we haven't found it because they can hide well.

That's my theory, but if there's something you have to say. Do answer.

[psyche101]

What?..... So, if I was to send this hair to someone I contacted at a Primate research center and said I had a hair that I thought was from a bigfoot, they would send it to Henner? Myself I would send the hair in and tell them it was from an African friend who said it was a gorilla hair, and see what they said from that POV.

If you sent it to Meldrum's office it would. You would have to do some follow up. Some proponents are credentialed remember.

You would go to a primate centre, but your objectivity was always far above that of Mak's.

I cannot see Mak going that far, he had a lot of faith in Henner, they exchanged email and telephone regularly. I have no doubt they still do. Meldrum even sends his hairs to Henner, at the cost of his credibility though.

I don't remember Mak ever speaking of approaching even a local Uni let alone a primate research centre. A Shame. I would love the see a hair (maybe cut in half) sent to both Henner and a Primate research centre, unbeknownst to either, and see what the results are.

Well, I guess there have been some other stories. The one I know is the one where Odie found some tracks, followed them and after a while found a small family, then ran off. From what I know he has never changed that story. But, there have been other threads, and I do not read all of them. I only actually picked up on this thread after many pages.

Isn't that what I am promoting? That we investigate and confirm before trashing a report?

In a way I am. I am saying dispite his horrible things he has done, even reports by Biscardi should be investigaged before trashing them.

I think there is being thorough, and then there is just wasting time. Major inconsistencies reflect a disjointed recollection. If that be the case you can put any peg in any hole you please.

I think Tom Biscardi has proven that his primary interest is hoaxing. He has perpetrated the most public embarrassments associated with the phenomena to date. Following his claims is a waste of time, as all investigations have proven to date. Not only are you not going to find Biff with Tom, his exploits will make sure any other claims are more likely to be ridiculed, and embarrass the phenomena into a non-funded crackpot hobby. Excepting the Hoaxed victims of course. Didn't Tom make a tidy sum from the Georgia hoax?

I think putting stock in obviously erroneous accounts is damaging to the field altogether. It will stop us finding out what people are seeing, be it a Hobo or Biff. It also promotes the ideal that only nutters are associated with such research.

Regardless, I stand by that I feel offering a personal encounter is not proof that Biff has been tracked, and does indeed violate the forum rule quoted. No number of encounters is proof of anything, or Biff would right now be seriously considered a real animal by all and taught in schools. One cannot say "Biff has been tracked 'cause I tracked him" By the same token I could say Biff is a hobo because I have spent the last 20 years following up every single report on the globe and every single one led to a Hobo. It just gets silly if you cannot stick to known facts.

Sure. Aren't Aliens as much or more possible then Bigfoot?

Well, not pee in the crop fields, but maybe run around doing field work in Earth's forests and other wildernesses. Even if the BFs are not the aliens themselves, they could be something like a living field camera for the ETs.

Plausible in space, not on earth. Distances will always keep us from our cosmic neighbors.

The Universe is 27 billion light years wide. Yep, even at light speed, 27 billion years to get from one end to the other, and it is always expanding!

In reality, I guess we have pretty much the same evidence of both. Good for me that I believe in neither LOL.

That camera would have one hell of a lag on it to even the closest of habitable worlds. The empires you are watching would have risen, fallen and possibly been replaced with another species.

I have no idea how many children are killed, but I'm assuming that those children live near the car and that they are simply not aware the car is even on. BF has none of those faults.

Too many, and no not always.

One very brilliant rule established in a rural Aussie town called Toowoomba is that 4WD's are not permitted within 300 (I think,might have been 100) meters from a school entrance during pickup and drop of times due to the fatalities. It has been quite effective to date.

I've been consistant with saying that one should have been hit by now. In almost every post I admit that. I'm just pointing out that statistically there is quite a lot of wiggle room, if one wants to be a true believer and claim one has never been hit, there is a definate, but small percent chance that it is true.

I find it more than amazing that every other animal including sapiens have been hit - I mean how could they judge distances? That is one of the major incident creators, particularly at night it is very difficult to judge distances. I mean, how does Biff know a Ford Taurus moves at probably half the speed a Ferari does? Where was his learning curve on motor vehicles?

Then when one looks at other major events that cause fatalities - earthquakes, fire, etc, - one has to ask, where is Biff?

I'm sure there are lots of encounters that involve accidents with BFs and young BFs, but for whatever reason none have ever turned up any evidence.

Young Biffs have been claimed in encounters, I think I saw a thread run here about a year ago of a alleged Biff Baby swinging through treetops, I think it was in a campground? The Jacobs photo's are allegedly juveniles, and there is a claim even the Patty film shows a Biff with young in the background.

No curiosity in juveniles, but then some encounters are explained as a "curious" creature. It seems to have the trait, yet unlike other primates, it has not lead a single specimen into danger?

Do we have examples of Orangs using machetes, or matches, or rope, or pots, or binoculars, or any of the hundreds of other objects that field researchers or villagers will have available? Because using the same logic, orangs would be using those by now too, as they have shared the same regions with humans for thousand of years.

Remember these DIY Orangutans?

Some Chimps developing and using tools as well.

How long would the BFs have to watch us... each. Since most apes can not really teach, the BFs would have to basically congigate in hundreds in peoples back yards to actually learn anything.

But that is the power of Homo Sapiens Sapiens. They can learn from others and thus technology speeds up, inventions compounding on each other. The poor ape has to reinvent the wheel individually each time.

I do believe the fishing Orangutan still defies this. None have ever been observed fishing before this despite sharing the Island with humans, and that he was unsuccessful, but eventually caught fish with his spear in man made traps.

If that does not illustrate learning, I am honestly not sure what would.

I think I have badly phrased something here. Could the tracks of a dragon be confirmed as belonging to a dragon, if dragons are not recognized by science? Then using the same idea, we can say that it is impossible to prove that a BF has been tracked, or not, because it is not a animal recognized by science.

I think I am onto it.

I cannot imagine 40 years of tracks, leading nowhere. Really, I just cannot. We are not that hopeless at hunting and tracking as a species. If that were the case,one wonder how we got this far.

Edited January 18, 2010 by psyche101

[+DieChecker]

Criminals on the run from the law are as desperate as possible to NOT be found, and certainly have modern human intelligence, in addition to a knowledge of current technology. Yet, with the exception of maybe D. B. Cooper, all are eventually apprehended.

That is not true. I read a report several years ago that as much as 90% of minor crimes, and even one time bank robberies, are never solved. It is the repeat offenders that are caught. Robbing a 7-11 once is very likely to be successful, even if you leave fingerprints and hair behind. Unless you are already in a database, they will have no idea who you are.

If you sent it to Meldrum's office it would. You would have to do some follow up. Some proponents are credentialed remember.

You would go to a primate centre, but your objectivity was always far above that of Mak's.

I cannot see Mak going that far, he had a lot of faith in Henner, they exchanged email and telephone regularly. I have no doubt they still do. Meldrum even sends his hairs to Henner, at the cost of his credibility though.

I don't remember Mak ever speaking of approaching even a local Uni let alone a primate research centre. A Shame. I would love the see a hair (maybe cut in half) sent to both Henner and a Primate research centre, unbeknownst to either, and see what the results are.

Mak used to PM me all day long, so maybe it was in a PM. He kept trying to get my home phone number too, but I would never give that out on the internet to what amounts to a complete stranger.

You could be right in his wanting Meldrum to be his champion, but I do not believe he specified that Meldrum was the only one he was going to have check the hair.

Anyway it was well known that Mak was not very objective, and probably that is what got him Banned. Draconic Chronicler probably got the same Banning for his fanaticism about Dragons.

I think there is being thorough, and then there is just wasting time. Major inconsistencies reflect a disjointed recollection. If that be the case you can put any peg in any hole you please.

Well, to probably 99% of the people out there in the world what all of us are doing on this Site is wasting time. To me the discussion is the thing, not whether the point is minor or major.

I think Tom Biscardi has proven that his primary interest is hoaxing.

Do you think it is like his Hobby to try to do this, or is he mostly after Money? I've always thought it was money.

Regardless, I stand by that I feel offering a personal encounter is not proof that Biff has been tracked, and does indeed violate the forum rule quoted. No number of encounters is proof of anything, or Biff would right now be seriously considered a real animal by all and taught in schools. One cannot say "Biff has been tracked 'cause I tracked him" By the same token I could say Biff is a hobo because I have spent the last 20 years following up every single report on the globe and every single one led to a Hobo. It just gets silly if you cannot stick to known facts.

That is true enough. So, what should Odie have prefaced his story with? "This is my story."? I guess I agree some kind of disclaimor needs to be posted, but like I posted earlier, all reports are suspect anyway.

Plausible in space, not on earth. Distances will always keep us from our cosmic neighbors.

The Universe is 27 billion light years wide. Yep, even at light speed, 27 billion years to get from one end to the other, and it is always expanding!

In reality, I guess we have pretty much the same evidence of both. Good for me that I believe in neither LOL.

That camera would have one hell of a lag on it to even the closest of habitable worlds. The empires you are watching would have risen, fallen and possibly been replaced with another species.

Off topic, but I think we have the technology to make generational ships and colonize other planets and other systems right now. Even if it takes 500 years, it is clearly possible to go out and explore and live around other stars. The propolsion systems are there, the structural technologies are there, the only problem being we are not crowded enough on Earth yet to provide the pressure to make that leap out into space, but the time will come soon when humans will be faced with either leaving Earth or running out of room.

I find it more than amazing that every other animal including sapiens have been hit - I mean how could they judge distances? That is one of the major incident creators, particularly at night it is very difficult to judge distances. I mean, how does Biff know a Ford Taurus moves at probably half the speed a Ferari does? Where was his learning curve on motor vehicles?

Then when one looks at other major events that cause fatalities - earthquakes, fire, etc, - one has to ask, where is Biff?

I got no quick answers for your questions. All I have is vague "perhaps"'s. I can not even argue that BF has a fear of cars, as to gain such a fear, BF would have had to be hit by them in large numbers.

Young Biffs have been claimed in encounters, I think I saw a thread run here about a year ago of a alleged Biff Baby swinging through treetops, I think it was in a campground? The Jacobs photo's are allegedly juveniles, and there is a claim even the Patty film shows a Biff with young in the background.

No curiosity in juveniles, but then some encounters are explained as a "curious" creature. It seems to have the trait, yet unlike other primates, it has not lead a single specimen into danger?

There are reports of juveniles, but like you said, if they are stupid enough and young enough to be seen picking through garbage or walking around suburban back yards, then surely one would have been shot by the Police by now, or caught somehow. I got no good idea why such a thing has not happened yet.

Remember these DIY Orangutans?

Some Chimps developing and using tools as well.

Yes. And I am sure that if BF is real, then some of them are smarter then others and are carrying axes or wearing belts, but as a culture, or as a species, they are likely still not evolved enough with enough contact to pick up most technology as a group.

I do believe the fishing Orangutan still defies this. None have ever been observed fishing before this despite sharing the Island with humans, and that he was unsuccessful, but eventually caught fish with his spear in man made traps.

If that does not illustrate learning, I am honestly not sure what would.

Has this Orang taught others how to do this? And if not then will the orangs fishing ability die with him?

[louis_last]

Anyway it was well known that Mak was not very objective, and probably that is what got him Banned. Draconic Chronicler probably got the same Banning for his fanaticism about Dragons.

You know, i miss makayla and DC, they spiced things up a bit. Nowadays the cryptozoology section's just filled with 12 year olds that think their vampires and boring skeptics that keep forcing me to confront harsh realities.

[+DieChecker]

You know, i miss makayla and DC, they spiced things up a bit. Nowadays the cryptozoology section's just filled with 12 year olds that think their vampires and boring skeptics that keep forcing me to confront harsh realities.

We need more Fanatics to spice things up??

There are some new members who seem to be more in line with True Believers, perhaps some of them will fill the role?

[Mind_n_Motion]

I'm going to theorize something.

IF Bigfoot does not already exist now, then it is, in theory, only a matter of time before the creature does become realistic. The longer we keep primates in domesticated situations, teach them and expose them more to human nature the more likely it is they will begin to mimic us. They are highly intelligent adaptive animals. Some can and do walk more up right the longer they spend time around us. Far fetched as it may seem to some no one can predict evolution so it is not an unrealistic possibility.

[aquatus1]

Well, sure...that was the entire basis of the Planet of the Apes movies.

[Mind_n_Motion]

Never saw the remade version of Planet of the Apes, grew up on the old ones and I always thought that it was suggesting that our egocentric single minded belief that we are at the top of the evolutionary ladder is misguided .

I believe in Bigfoot.

I know the stats, I know all the evidence that says he/she/it can & cannot exist.

I still believe though. Not because of any evidence however I do love the little tidbits that fall into that "Well I just can't be sure what it is" category (Like hairs found that have yet to be identified to any known animal). I believe because I cannot nor will I say for certain that evolution has no secrets from us. Mother nature is a very adaptable creature and she cares not for science or evidence. If it is possible in her mind, then it is created & I like to keep my mind just as open .

[odiesbsc]

If I were you, I'd write down my story/sitings in a Word document and then add to it if needed. But, at least your story will be consistant at that point.

Thank you DieChecker, That's a good idea, I'll see if I can dig up my posts and copy them to word when I get time. I stand by my earlier posts and there are no inconsistancies in them for those who can read and understand. (other than typos or misspelled words)

Odie

[~Onyx~]

There are some new members who seem to be more in line with True Believers, perhaps some of them will fill the role?

[Neognosis]

That is not true. I read a report several years ago that as much as 90% of minor crimes, and even one time bank robberies, are never solved.

That is because of lack of manpower and lack of empathy, not because we don't have the ability to catch such people.

as far as makaya goes, he made veiled threats to me and my family after uncovering my real life identity. Not cool.

[Neognosis]

Mother nature is a very adaptable creature and she cares not for science or evidence.

Actually, "mother nature" plays by a set of rules. Mother nature has to obey the laws of physics and the laws of biology which make her up.

But it is fun to believe and I don't begrudge you your ideas.

[psyche101]

Mak used to PM me all day long, so maybe it was in a PM. He kept trying to get my home phone number too, but I would never give that out on the internet to what amounts to a complete stranger.

Me too!! I was the same, he even tried to get my full name, no doubt so he could try to access the number anyway, I refused to give that out as well for the same reasons.

You could be right in his wanting Meldrum to be his champion, but I do not believe he specified that Meldrum was the only one he was going to have check the hair.

Anyway it was well known that Mak was not very objective, and probably that is what got him Banned. Draconic Chronicler probably got the same Banning for his fanaticism about Dragons.

Henner picked up the phone LOL Bet he is still getting calls!

Despite Henner going off the rails, Mak insisted he was the be all and end all concerning Biff, I strongly expect that Henner's evaluation was gospel to him.

I don't think he said he would send it to Meldrum, that would be a waste of time as he would then send it to Henner. I was just saying you have to check where you send it, if it goes to Meldrum it will end up back with Henner, and Meldrum does work at Idaho State University. If one did do that, I wonder if Henner wold recognise it as coming from him originally?

I suspect Henner is where Mak got his stronger debating skills from. Her would ring Henner and make him aware of the active debate and ask his views. Apparently Henner mostly told him we are unbelievers and not worth wasting his time on. I would expect no less to be honest.

Well, to probably 99% of the people out there in the world what all of us are doing on this Site is wasting time. To me the discussion is the thing, not whether the point is minor or major.

Discussion is good, but back to the flying spaghetti monster, I do feel this board has enough active and regularly participating members to offer some real solutions. If one looks at what is available on the Internet concerning the phenomena, I firmly believe this site has the best critical thinking skills and varied solutions. Many good ideals are born here that the more prominent supporters seem to miss.

I love the way this place provides thinking debate on the subject, far too many boards consist of members patting each other on the back at how they "beat" science. The way both sides of the fence often meet here in an amicable fashion is it's strength. The international audience gives great coverage concerning the global phenomena as well.

I reckon put them to the test, lets evaluate some of these objectively. I do feel this is a better place to find real information regarding the phenomena rather than a website full of proponents like the BFRO. You have to have a skeptic and a believer to get both sides of the story, and only 2 halves make a whole. If we can evaluate something that both sides consider an outright fabrication, I don't think that is bad for either proponent.

Really, what I'd love to see is Jeff Meldrum of Fahrenbach participate.

Do you think it is like his Hobby to try to do this, or is he mostly after Money? I've always thought it was money.

I reckon it is both. It is an easy job to sit around making tales up. If it was purely money, religion would probably have suited his purposes better, the way people flock to these new UFO religions and give up money and anything else desired, heck, I am thinking of starting one up myself.

That is true enough. So, what should Odie have prefaced his story with? "This is my story."? I guess I agree some kind of disclaimor needs to be posted, but like I posted earlier, all reports are suspect anyway.

Yes, I'd be happy if he did not force his claim as evidence. Voicing an opinion, or describing personal experience is fine, but in no way does his personal claim mean that Biff has been tracked.

Off topic, but I think we have the technology to make generational ships and colonize other planets and other systems right now. Even if it takes 500 years, it is clearly possible to go out and explore and live around other stars. The propolsion systems are there, the structural technologies are there, the only problem being we are not crowded enough on Earth yet to provide the pressure to make that leap out into space, but the time will come soon when humans will be faced with either leaving Earth or running out of room.

We have made the spaceship, what killed it off was the The Partial Test Ban Treaty of 1963. Someone ought to bring that treaty to the attention of the French, Korean and Vietnamese.

Interesting topic, although I don't believe there could be a mother ship or similar sitting on the dark side of the moon as with the millions of Amateur astronomers (including radio telescopes), satellites, and space experiments, not to mention Hubble, Keppler Aricebo, The Big Ear etc. etc. could all miss something like that coming into the solar system. Especially under it's own power. That "mystery Object" that just passed by earth was a mere 33 to 50 feet wide at most. An amateur astronomer in a forum I visit managed a good capture. Very impressive considering the scales. I dropped the link in the ET section of it. Of course, some decided it was ET.

Link to Project Orion (nuclear propulsion)

500 Years seems a dream trip. If there was an ET on the closest planet we know of that could possibly harbor life, and he/she/ET had a ship that did travel at the speed of light, he/she/ET would have to have left whilst we were helping Neanderthal man spear Mammoths to arrive at the present time.

I believe that the scenario you have put forth is possible, but I think we would know about it if it did happen. I also firmly believe that Biff would not come all this way to pee in the snow and bugger targeted nutjobs.

I got no quick answers for your questions. All I have is vague "perhaps"'s. I can not even argue that BF has a fear of cars, as to gain such a fear, BF would have had to be hit by them in large numbers.

There are reports of juveniles, but like you said, if they are stupid enough and young enough to be seen picking through garbage or walking around suburban back yards, then surely one would have been shot by the Police by now, or caught somehow. I got no good idea why such a thing has not happened yet.

Even a good capture, I feel the best place to find a Biff should be a tip.

If we had a flick and tick sheet, this would be 2 more to add on the not-plausible column.

Yes. And I am sure that if BF is real, then some of them are smarter then others and are carrying axes or wearing belts, but as a culture, or as a species, they are likely still not evolved enough with enough contact to pick up most technology as a group.

Wouldn't ten thousand years of carful observation be enough to pick up the basics? If they are intelligent enough to avoid cars and people to an incredible degree, tool usage seems a given?

Has this Orang taught others how to do this? And if not then will the orangs fishing ability die with him?

If he learned it from humans, and to be using the spear and raiding traps one would take that as a given, why wouldn't others?

If I were you, I'd write down my story/sitings in a Word document and then add to it if needed. But, at least your story will be consistant at that point.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all got a second chance to "get it right".

I think you ought to look at the original thread to be honest.

Edited January 19, 2010 by psyche101

[psyche101]

Never saw the remade version of Planet of the Apes, grew up on the old ones and I always thought that it was suggesting that our egocentric single minded belief that we are at the top of the evolutionary ladder is misguided .

Same story. LOL, Aquatus1 is right, you just re-wrote The Planet of The Apes.

Hrmmz, interesting - evolutionary ladder hey? There is a top to evolution? A final level? I was unaware of this?

Or do you just think we stoopid humanz should just goez away?

Did you mean top of the food chain?

I believe in Bigfoot.

I know the stats, I know all the evidence that says he/she/it can & cannot exist.

I still believe though. Not because of any evidence however I do love the little tidbits that fall into that "Well I just can't be sure what it is" category (Like hairs found that have yet to be identified to any known animal). I believe because I cannot nor will I say for certain that evolution has no secrets from us. Mother nature is a very adaptable creature and she cares not for science or evidence. If it is possible in her mind, then it is created & I like to keep my mind just as open .

To "champion the underdog" is not being open minded. Do you really believe in Biff? How hard is it for you to say "I do not believe in Biff"? Yep, that is the tricky part, accepting evidence contrary to what one wishes to believe in. Biff is far cooler than a Hobo with parallax error, and appears that way to scientists as well as the average punter. Reality is the bitter pill where this phenomena is concerned.

Mother Nature is one of the one's saying Biff does not exist, she has a delicately balanced ecosystem.

Edited January 19, 2010 by psyche101

[evancj]

Me too!! I was the same, he even tried to get my full name, no doubt so he could try to access the number anyway, I refused to give that out as well for the same reasons.

Henner picked up the phone LOL Bet he is still getting calls!

Despite Henner going off the rails, Mak insisted he was the be all and end all concerning Biff, I strongly expect that Henner's evaluation was gospel to him.

I don't think he said he would send it to Meldrum, that would be a waste of time as he would then send it to Henner. I was just saying you have to check where you send it, if it goes to Meldrum it will end up back with Henner, and Meldrum does work at Idaho State University. If one did do that, I wonder if Henner wold recognise it as coming from him originally?

I suspect Henner is where Mak got his stronger debating skills from. Her would ring Henner and make him aware of the active debate and ask his views. Apparently Henner mostly told him we are unbelievers and not worth wasting his time on. I would expect no less to be honest.

Mak tried the same on me. He even tried to get me to debate Henner via email. I saved the PM with some of Henners responses to my posts Mak sent him.

[psyche101]

Mak tried the same on me. He even tried to get me to debate Henner via email. I saved the PM with some of Henners responses to my posts Mak sent him.

Crikey!!!!!

He sure was determined! He must have been hitting that keyboard 24/7, I wonder where he is these days. Shame he let his enthusiasm get the better of him. He lost it altogether when he started insulting Neo. And any credibility he has shored up as far as investigation goes.

I knew he was getting Henner to help his debating You could just tell when it was a Henner answer and when it was Mak. Shame Henner never fronted up.

Edited January 19, 2010 by psyche101

[+DieChecker]

That is because of lack of manpower and lack of empathy, not because we don't have the ability to catch such people.

as far as makaya goes, he made veiled threats to me and my family after uncovering my real life identity. Not cool.

That is Not Cool. Sorry he compromised your privacy.

The point still is good though that not every criminal is caught, not even most of them.

Henner picked up the phone LOL Bet he is still getting calls!

Probably.

I suspect Henner is where Mak got his stronger debating skills from. Her would ring Henner and make him aware of the active debate and ask his views. Apparently Henner mostly told him we are unbelievers and not worth wasting his time on. I would expect no less to be honest.

You think he was doing Word for Word? So, those debating him were actually debating Henner?

I love the way this place provides thinking debate on the subject, far too many boards consist of members patting each other on the back at how they "beat" science. The way both sides of the fence often meet here in an amicable fashion is it's strength.

And a primary reason I post here and not on BF forums. Why post there when everyone is like, "Yeah! Bigfoot is real.", and no one posts otherwise, or they are Banned.

Really, what I'd love to see is Jeff Meldrum of Fahrenbach participate.

I've often wondered that too. Why do no "Big Name" people post here, publicly? Unexplained Mysteries is at the top of the list if you Google those terms. Is it really such a backwater? Not as big name as ATS? I'd like to see most or all of the BF experts post here, at least occationally.

I reckon it is both. It is an easy job to sit around making tales up. If it was purely money, religion would probably have suited his purposes better, the way people flock to these new UFO religions and give up money and anything else desired, heck, I am thinking of starting one up myself.

I'd never go into Religon, unless I had a couple hundred pigeons already willing to go. My Father-in-Law is a Pastor and has been unemployed for going on 5 years.

Project Orion

I think Project Orion was very feasible, but of course it would not be able to be used large scale, with out a lot of environmental damages.

Wouldn't ten thousand years of carful observation be enough to pick up the basics? If they are intelligent enough to avoid cars and people to an incredible degree, tool usage seems a given?

Not if they followed the trend of primitive hominids, where they learned as a people very slowly. I don't think there has been "close observation", either.

If neanderthals could have learn new tools and techniques as quickly as the invading H. Sapiens Sapiens, they might not have been wiped out in Europe.

If he learned it from humans, and to be using the spear and raiding traps one would take that as a given, why wouldn't others?

I suppose we shall have to watch the news over the coming years to see if there is any cross learning by other orangs. We will need to wait and see.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all got a second chance to "get it right".

I think you ought to look at the original thread to be honest.

Hopefully Odie will repost or link to his stories.

[YETI MAN]

Boy, I would hate for a vagrant to get away with homicide because the town's police officers were idiots and were looking not for a person, but for a sasquatch.

Hey neo its your worst nightmare checking in on you and your non-believing friends.You know you guys come in here and have a field day on the believers . You insist that there's no proof that bigfoot exist.Yet there are thousands of documented cases,pictures all over the internet of bigfoot and some videos of bigfoot to be found out there.But still you disbelievers out there continue to cry the blues you want proof. Well I think its time that you prove to us that do believe he's real that he doesn't exist. After all the proof in front of your noses its your minds that are missing the true fact in front of your faces.Instead of runing your mouths get out from behind your computer screens and do a little investigating yourselves.But just remember just because you haven't seen one yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means your not smart enough to know how to find one yet. have a great day all.

the silly idea that bigfoot is simply too smart to be found ignores what we know about intelligence in animals... namely that in all animals (and extinct humanoid species) that exhibit(ed) higher intellect, that intellect is(was) accompanied by certain things, among them culture, tool use and making, burial to varying degrees, group cooperation, etc. All these things are very difficult to hide. So when you say that we can't find bigfoot because he is too smart, it belies a lack of knowledge and understanding about intelligence in species and the markers of that intelligence.

Unless this protocol is YET ANOTHER that we have to allow bigfoot to break, in addition to all the others...

[psyche101]

That is Not Cool. Sorry he compromised your privacy.

The point still is good though that not every criminal is caught, not even most of them.

I agree, that was below the belt. How to get a free holiday.....

Would that statistic pertain primarily to urban, or rural environments?

You think he was doing Word for Word? So, those debating him were actually debating Henner?

Not quite, every now and then.

And a primary reason I post here and not on BF forums. Why post there when everyone is like, "Yeah! Bigfoot is real.", and no one posts otherwise, or they are Banned.

I don't mind the BFF, it just seems to move a bit slow, and one subject can get monotonous. I have to say I met some good people there, but with a handful of good people, one runs out of subjects pretty quick. Nearly every post I have ever made at the BFF is responded to with "this has been discussed already" and it seems everything has. Nothing is resolved though, you have the "for" and "against" like most places. I feel this board does diversify better than others.

I've often wondered that too. Why do no "Big Name" people post here, publicly? Unexplained Mysteries is at the top of the list if you Google those terms. Is it really such a backwater? Not as big name as ATS? I'd like to see most or all of the BF experts post here, at least occationally.

That is a good question. Heck, UM has even featured on telly.

I'd never go into Religon, unless I had a couple hundred pigeons already willing to go. My Father-in-Law is a Pastor and has been unemployed for going on 5 years.

Wow, not much business in faith anymore? I must say that seems rather surprising. I used to go to school with the son of a Born Again Pastor, man they had the goods, big house on the water, boat out the back, beamer in the garage. Considering how many faiths abound these days, I guess some have to suffer.

I think Project Orion was very feasible, but of course it would not be able to be used large scale, with out a lot of environmental damages.

It still remains to this day the best design for interstellar travel, I think the fallout problems could have been alleviated with a Moon base, practical testing would surely have led to more efficient designs. Still 1,000 years to even look at Alpha Centauri close up, but it would bring Pluto down to a one year trip. That would have to be worth it, a manned mission to Europa would herald many insights I believe.

Not if they followed the trend of primitive hominids, where they learned as a people very slowly. I don't think there has been "close observation", either.

That would be because there were no other hominids to copy, once technology progressed beyond fire to the wheel, and onto agriculture we started a cycle that was not going to stop.

If neanderthals could have learn new tools and techniques as quickly as the invading H. Sapiens Sapiens, they might not have been wiped out in Europe.

I am sure Neanderthal did use tools. If Biff managed to outlast the Neanderthal, and exist entirely covertly for ten thousand years, surely that indicates the level of intelligence required to master such basic techniques?

Archaeologists have recreated the stone tools made by Neanderthals, and found them to be as useful and efficient as those made by the earliest Homo sapiens, who survived while the Neanderthal line died off.

The study, which will be published in the Journal of Human Evolution [subscription required], found only one possible advantage to Homo sapiens’ blades: They could be easily attached to a shaft to make a spear or projectile. Eren doesn’t believe that difference is enough to explain the disappearance of the Neanderthals from Europe by about 30,000 years ago, but other archaeologists have proposed it as a contributing factor.

LINK

I suppose we shall have to watch the news over the coming years to see if there is any cross learning by other orangs. We will need to wait and see.

Mate, David Attenborough called it learning.

David Attenborough!!

Hopefully Odie will repost or link to his stories.

LOL, I got enough during the first telling

I am not going to support you on that one!

Edited January 19, 2010 by psyche101

[psyche101]

You know you guys come in here and have a field day on the believers

Well, I must say that is an interesting observation Yeti Man. How is presenting a valid debate backed with evidence "a field day on believers"?

Edited January 19, 2010 by psyche101