MysticOnion Posted January 1, 2010 #1 Share Posted January 1, 2010 So Religion. All in your head or something real and tangible? Religious stories - wherever and whichever religion they come from are very good fairy tales but why believe in them? Why is it ok to believe in them and not ok to believe in Santa Claus over the age of 10 years old? And whats the difference anyway? IMO we don't need to believe but other people want us to so that they can control our reactions and get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakzar Break Posted January 1, 2010 #2 Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) IMO it's all in your head. Religion is like a belief, an idea. Or something like that.. Correct me if I'm wrong. Edited January 1, 2010 by Brakzar_Break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted January 1, 2010 #3 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hi nerd herder, Your question is simple, but far more intricate than I think even you realise. But for the context of this particular point you raise, I think what is important is that not all religious people see the stories of their religions as simply "fairy tales". Sure, some of the stories may be poems, or figurative stories, but there are others which their adherents see as fact - things that actually happened. This differentiates itself from stories such as Santa Claus in that Santa Claus is routinely dismissed as a myth to tell children (and even some parents will tell their children the truth about Santa from a young age, rather than bow to the consumerism/popularity of Santa as a child's story). I understand that you don't see a difference in the story of Santa and other myths from their various religions, others are not the same - for some, belief in the stories of whatever religious book they ascribe includes a necessary belief that those stories are true. From your point of view, that may mean there is no tangible difference. But for others, that may be all the difference in the world. As one of my university lecturers once said of beliefs - "Mythology + Belief (in that mythology) = Truth" (he was an atheist - or at the least non-religious; we didn't really get into details of what he believed...). That's a difference that can only be measured by the level of belief a person has in that belief. Best wishes, ~ PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChloeB Posted January 1, 2010 #4 Share Posted January 1, 2010 As one of my university lecturers once said of beliefs - "Mythology + Belief (in that mythology) = Truth" (he was an atheist - or at the least non-religious; we didn't really get into details of what he believed...). Define truth. Let's say I've convinced myself I'm the new messiah and have convinced people to follow me, sign over all their belongings to me, and join my cult......does that make it true? Am I the real messiah or is it all in my head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted January 1, 2010 #5 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Define truth. Let's say I've convinced myself I'm the new messiah and have convinced people to follow me, sign over all their belongings to me, and join my cult......does that make it true? Am I the real messiah or is it all in my head? As far as the one believing, yes, that is truth. It still may be all in your head, but that's aside from the point. Mythology + belief = truth. No one's saying that this equates to objective proof. I don't think I ever stated as such. Perhaps the next time I bring this up I should preface it with a comment that this is entirely "personal truth". I thought it was clear that this was already the case, but clearly I'm mistaken.~ PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChloeB Posted January 1, 2010 #6 Share Posted January 1, 2010 As far as the one believing, yes, that is truth. It still may be all in your head, but that's aside from the point. Mythology + belief = truth. No one's saying that this equates to objective proof. I don't think I ever stated as such. Perhaps the next time I bring this up I should preface it with a comment that this is entirely "personal truth". I thought it was clear that this was already the case, but clearly I'm mistaken. ~ PA I'm sorry - I didn't realize it was aside the point. I thought that was what she was asking - if it was all in your head. I mean we can call many things personal truths, but we are crossing into existentialism there. Religion is no different. To me, the answer is obviously yes that religion is all in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pycomonkey Posted January 1, 2010 #7 Share Posted January 1, 2010 All I know, is that the day I was told Santa was not real everything else went with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted January 1, 2010 Author #8 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Well compared to the story of Christ, Santa Claus seems entirely believeable. I mean, Mary gets pregnant by God, has his son in a stable, heralded by Angels, astrological phenomenons and all the beasts a lowing... A big man in a red suit with Magical reindeer seems quite possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakzar Break Posted January 1, 2010 #9 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Well compared to the story of Christ, Santa Claus seems entirely believeable. I mean, Mary gets pregnant by God, has his son in a stable, heralded by Angels, astrological phenomenons and all the beasts a lowing... A big man in a red suit with Magical reindeer seems quite possible. Santa Claus doesn't exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted January 1, 2010 Author #10 Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) Yes he does and we see him in many forms EVERY CHRISTMAS. Hmm a triple 7 swastika... Edited January 1, 2010 by Nerd Herder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DfizzleShizzle Posted January 1, 2010 #11 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Yes he does and we see him in many forms EVERY CHRISTMAS. Hmm a triple 7 swastika... Exactly! I mean really, a belief in Santa Claus seems more justified than a belief in God. If the cookies I left under my tree disappearing isn't proof, then I don't know what is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted January 1, 2010 Author #12 Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) There you go. How can all those children possibly be wrong? They are people too and every child in the world believes in Santa Claus. He has inumerate number of witnesses and the kids don't question him at all till they are told different. Even if they find their prezzies they still believe the big red guy is coming down the chimney. Edited January 1, 2010 by Nerd Herder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DfizzleShizzle Posted January 1, 2010 #13 Share Posted January 1, 2010 There you go. How can all those children possibly be wrong? They are people too and every child in the world believes in Santa Claus. He has inumerate number of witnesses and the kids don't question him at all till they are told different. Even if they find their prezzies they still believe the big red guy is coming down the chimney. And when kids start to question Santa, the number one thing parents tell them is: "As long as you believe, then he is real" That seems to go for many other things as well- like God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted January 1, 2010 Author #14 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Well if you believe you can make anything real. Sounds a bit Matrix-ish. Your mind can make anything real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DfizzleShizzle Posted January 1, 2010 #15 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Well if you believe you can make anything real. Sounds a bit Matrix-ish. Your mind can make anything real. And as an ex-christian, I will gladly agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted January 1, 2010 Author #16 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I am also Ex-Christian. That doesn't make me believe in anything else though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted January 1, 2010 #17 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Santa Claus doesn't exist! He did once for real..LOL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted January 1, 2010 #18 Share Posted January 1, 2010 So Religion. All in your head or something real and tangible? Its all in my head....well something has to be a space filler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoombie Posted January 2, 2010 #19 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Santa Claus exist!!!! I'm not listening to all of you... :angry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted January 2, 2010 #20 Share Posted January 2, 2010 There you go. How can all those children possibly be wrong? They are people too and every child in the world believes in Santa Claus. He has inumerate number of witnesses and the kids don't question him at all till they are told different. Even if they find their prezzies they still believe the big red guy is coming down the chimney. Hmm, my parents told me straight off the bat that Santa was not real, he was a myth. You never can quite tell the shock in a bus when a lady asks a child what Santa's getting them for Christmas and the child responds loudly for everyone to hear, "Santa isn't real". The thing is, in the same way, as a child I was never told that Christianity was the real religion either. I believed in neither Santa nor Jesus. Yet when I was 19-20 years old (can't remember exactly), that changed when I turned to Jesus Christ. So we can't say that this was simply a belief I was told since I was a kid, and have never been told different, or never thought different. Sure, other Christians have grown up as such their whole lives, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. This is not just about believing what we've always believed as kids as seems to be intimated when we compare Santa to religion - no one turns to Santa when they're adults Though while we're on the topic of Santa, Mr Deity certainly had some words about that: ~ PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted January 2, 2010 Author #21 Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) Hmm, my parents told me straight off the bat that Santa was not real, he was a myth. You never can quite tell the shock in a bus when a lady asks a child what Santa's getting them for Christmas and the child responds loudly for everyone to hear, "Santa isn't real". The thing is, in the same way, as a child I was never told that Christianity was the real religion either. I believed in neither Santa nor Jesus. Yet when I was 19-20 years old (can't remember exactly), that changed when I turned to Jesus Christ. So we can't say that this was simply a belief I was told since I was a kid, and have never been told different, or never thought different. Sure, other Christians have grown up as such their whole lives, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. This is not just about believing what we've always believed as kids as seems to be intimated when we compare Santa to religion - no one turns to Santa when they're adults Though while we're on the topic of Santa, Mr Deity certainly had some words about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnzoxSEiW88 ~ PA It doesn't matter how much you try to justify it to yourself. Someobody else told you Christ existed and you believed them. If someone told you Santa existed when you were a baby you would have believed them too. Edited January 2, 2010 by Nerd Herder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted January 2, 2010 Author #22 Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) I think personally that Neil Diamond sums up what growing up is all about. You stop believing in things just because people tell you to and you start believing in yourself. I AM. I AM. This isn't just about a guy who doesn't know where he belongs.. its about growing up and realising who's in control and personal identity. It means a lot if you listen to it properly. Edited January 2, 2010 by Nerd Herder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted January 2, 2010 #23 Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) Hmm, my parents told me straight off the bat that Santa was not real, he was a myth. You never can quite tell the shock in a bus when a lady asks a child what Santa's getting them for Christmas and the child responds loudly for everyone to hear, "Santa isn't real". The thing is, in the same way, as a child I was never told that Christianity was the real religion either. I believed in neither Santa nor Jesus. Yet when I was 19-20 years old (can't remember exactly), that changed when I turned to Jesus Christ. So we can't say that this was simply a belief I was told since I was a kid, and have never been told different, or never thought different. Sure, other Christians have grown up as such their whole lives, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. This is not just about believing what we've always believed as kids as seems to be intimated when we compare Santa to religion - no one turns to Santa when they're adults Thing is about santa aka st nick..he actually was real at one point and long time dead...thats where the exaggerated version came soon after to keep the kids belief alive...a way to make them be good... But the difference between Santa and jesus is..there is proof santa did at one time exist..but nothing that shows jesus did I can fully understand no proof of god in heaven.(with god being a spiritual being)....but being on earth in the flesh living and breathing, you'd think there would be some evidence...but there isn't...all you have is a bunch of stories that could be made up or stolen ideas from another faith...lets not get into that but you get my drift Similar principles with both Santa and Jesus (apart from santa being an actual living person once)...well..think about it... both offer rewards & punishment... IE An old fashioned tale was If you are good, santa leaves you gifts..but if you are bad he leaves whipping rods or lumps of coal... If you are good and follow jesus you get rewarded in heaven as it is the only way to heaven and before you babble on how its not a reward, if its not a reward then why strive to get there? After all it is rewarding to get to a better everlasting life...and if you are bad then suffer Both give the same sort of principles ...difference is only one of those principles have worked in real life... Edited January 2, 2010 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DfizzleShizzle Posted January 2, 2010 #24 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Thing is about santa aka st nick..he actually was real at one point and long time dead...thats where the exaggerated version came soon after to keep the kids belief alive...a way to make them be good... But the difference between Santa and jesus is..there is proof santa did at one time exist..but nothing that shows jesus did I can fully understand no proof of god in heaven.(with god being a spiritual being)....but being on earth in the flesh living and breathing, you'd think there would be some evidence...but there isn't...all you have is a bunch of stories that could be made up or stolen ideas from another faith...lets not get into that but you get my drift Similar principles with both Santa and Jesus (apart from santa being an actual living person once)...well..think about it... both offer rewards & punishment... IE An old fashioned tale was – If you are good, santa leaves you gifts..but if you are bad he leaves whipping rods or lumps of coal... If you are good and follow jesus you get rewarded in heaven as it is the only way to heaven and before you babble on how its not a reward, if its not a reward then why strive to get there? After all it is rewarding to get to a better everlasting life...and if you are bad then suffer Both give the same sort of principles ...difference is only one of those principles have worked in real life... Amen. For a man that everyone believes existed, theres very little proof. It makes sense though, most people wouldn't even think to question the very existence of Jesus, because him not even being real doesn't even seem plausible. Shoot, it wasn't until recently that I started questioning his existence (His physical existence, not "spiritual") and I was surprised how little evidence there was in his favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurthurBB Posted January 2, 2010 #25 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Amen. For a man that everyone believes existed, theres very little proof. It makes sense though, most people wouldn't even think to question the very existence of Jesus, because him not even being real doesn't even seem plausible. Shoot, it wasn't until recently that I started questioning his existence (His physical existence, not "spiritual") and I was surprised how little evidence there was in his favor. People on this message board are surprised to find out that other people question if Jesus actually existed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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