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AngelsShadow

NextGen

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Is the NextGen Aviation System going to be the future Skynet in the Terminator series?

What is NextGen?

NextGen is an aviation system being developed by the FAA. NextGen will take all aviation controls to a satellite based system rather than a ground based. It will allow airplanes to fly closer together "safely" and plot more direct courses from point A to point B. The satellite system of NextGen is being developed with the FAA the Military and NASA. Will the Military and Government want to use this new system for a weapons and defense system? The chances of that are extremely high.

This NextGen system will not only be used for the commercial aviation system but also it will be used to control Unmanned Aircraft for the military, all Unmanned Aircraft have weapons and NextGen will essentially have full control over them.

What is Skynet?

For those of you who have not seen the Terminator movies, Skynet is the primary antagonist in the story. It was developed by the Military as a satellite based weapons defense system, in the early 21st century it became self aware and saw the humans as a threat to its existence and set off a nuclear attack, known in the story as "Judgment Day". It has complete control over the systems and attacks the humans with other computer systems and robots called "Terminators" the only reason they are called this is because they're names are "T-101" "T-600" "T-800" etc. and when they kill a human they say they have been "terminated".

So what are the similarities?

NextGen will have control over the aviation systems and the unmanned Military aircraft weapons systems, Skynet had control over weapons systems as well.

NextGen is a satellite based system, Skynet was a satellite based system.

NextGen is being developed by the FAA, NASA and all the branches of the Military, Skynet was developed by the Military as well.

NextGen is supposed to make everything better, so was Skynet.

We are already coming so far into our technology that we have the ability to make software and robots that can think for themselves and be self aware. What's next for our technology? Are all these factors going to spell the end for man? Are we going to be taken over by the very innovation and technology that we hold so dear to us?

So I'm gonna leave it up to you to decide. Is NextGen going to be the future Skynet? Is this the brink of the end for mankind? Nobody truly knows until the future comes...

Links

NextGen:http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/nextgen/

Skynet:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_%28Terminator%29

Edited by AngelsShadow

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In the UK the MOD have had the Skynet system long before the Terminator films were produced!

We are up to version 5C now and it hasn't gone sentient yet(as far as we know!)

Mind you we only use it for communications, don't quite trust it with armed killdrones - yet! :devil:

Edited by glyndowers heir

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In the UK the MOD have had the Skynet system long before the Terminator films were produced!

We are up to version 5C now and it hasn't gone sentient yet(as far as we know!)

Mind you we only use it for communications, don't quite trust it with armed killdrones - yet! :devil:

Lol I saw that lol but my point was that this is supposed to be an aviation system and I know our government is gonna want to use it as a weapon defense system because to the American government, if it can't be used as a weapon then it's useless lol

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Is the NextGen Aviation System going to be the future Skynet in the Terminator series?

What is NextGen?

NextGen is an aviation system being developed by the FAA. NextGen will take all aviation controls to a satellite based system rather than a ground based. It will allow airplanes to fly closer together "safely" and plot more direct courses from point A to point B. The satellite system of NextGen is being developed with the FAA the Military and NASA. Will the Military and Government want to use this new system for a weapons and defense system? The chances of that are extremely high.

I doubt it, this project is like you said, to manage air traffic better. There are so many planes in the sky now days that it's hard for human operators to keep up.

This NextGen system will not only be used for the commercial aviation system but also it will be used to control Unmanned Aircraft for the military, all Unmanned Aircraft have weapons and NextGen will essentially have full control over them.

Where did it say that? I had a little browse around there site but couldn't find anything about it.

So what are the similarities?

NextGen will have control over the aviation systems and the unmanned Military aircraft weapons systems, Skynet had control over weapons systems as well.

Will it?

We are already coming so far into our technology that we have the ability to make software and robots that can think for themselves and be self aware. What's next for our technology? Are all these factors going to spell the end for man? Are we going to be taken over by the very innovation and technology that we hold so dear to us?

This is far from self-aware. Simple algorithms and programming could easily manage the planes positions in the sky. We are decades away from self aware robots/software so no need to worry quite yet.

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Lol you know what the masssive problem with the terminator plot is............. computer programs cannot suddenly become sentient. I love hollywood they would have people believe computers can do anything

and this is why people should never suggest hollywood films can become real life, hollywood is too full of rubbish.

Edited by Spend

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Lol you know what the masssive problem with the terminator plot is............. computer programs cannot suddenly become sentient.

Well, to be fair to the movie plot, weren't the government/Cyberdyne/whatever trying to make Skynet sentient?

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Lol you know what the masssive problem with the terminator plot is............. computer programs cannot suddenly become sentient. I love hollywood they would have people believe computers can do anything

and this is why people should never suggest hollywood films can become real life, hollywood is too full of rubbish.

I agree that Hollywood does take things to the extreme, but only because it makes good entertainment - if everything was made factually correct then it would probably be boring. Your statement highlighted bold, however, is ridiculous. You cannot possibly know whether that could happen or not. It's highly unlikely, but we have to consider the technology available to us in the future. For example, Quantum computing. Moreover, there is work into Artificial Intelligence, and although Neural Networks and other devices are

only an approximation, we see positive results which in the future could lead to the development of near-human or human levels of intelligence simulation. Of course, the border between intelligence and sentience could be argued, and questions posed as to whether it is truly sentient. The problem with your statement is you seem to suggest it is completely impossible, whereas we do not yet know. For all we know, an artificial intelligence simulation could develop self-awareness in the future. Not likely, but we can't say impossible.

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I doubt it, this project is like you said, to manage air traffic better. There are so many planes in the sky now days that it's hard for human operators to keep up.

Where did it say that? I had a little browse around there site but couldn't find anything about it.

Will it?

This is far from self-aware. Simple algorithms and programming could easily manage the planes positions in the sky. We are decades away from self aware robots/software so no need to worry quite yet.

But you gotta think here. The U.S. Government tries to use anything and everything it can as a weapon. Hell they even used commercial video games as small training simulators, just to incorporate them into the weapon system. There's no way on God's green Earth that they're gonna let this one pass them by without trying to make it a weapon.

And the thing about the unmanned aircraft (or UAV). The NextGen is gonna have control over the aircraft, because they will plot a course for the UAV to follow and then leave it in the hands of NextGen, NextGen is gonna have complete control over it. The weapons systems are controlled by the unmanned controller of the UAV and that means that whoever has control over that UAV is gonna have control over the weapons as well.

It's kind of hard to find the sources for ALL the information I have on it because a lot of this information comes from a pilot directly. He's not a conspiracy theorist lol he tells me about this stuff and then I start thinking and then I present the idea to him and we start speculating. But he's the one who told me about the weapons systems on the UAV etc.

I'm not allowed to give his name or what his relationship to me is though.....

To me, all I'm sayin' is that the similarities are way to eerily similar to ignore. Whose to say this NextGen doesn't become sentient and then start taking us out the sneaky way by presenting itself as a human on the phone, telling the government to put all it's systems on NextGen, then when the time comes for it to reveal itself it will already be too late and NextGen will start Judgment Day..... That right there was just a spit ball theory, it holds no credible sources it's just me speculating so please don't comment on this telling me to support this one because it's just a speculation lol

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I heard something about high tech drones used to patrol borders and coastlines. Skynet did spring to mind but also dark angel. James Cameron what are you trying to tell us?

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I heard something about high tech drones used to patrol borders and coastlines. Skynet did spring to mind but also dark angel. James Cameron what are you trying to tell us?

That actually sounds pretty interesting. PM me with some more details on that if you would please, I'd like to know more about this.

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But you gotta think here. The U.S. Government tries to use anything and everything it can as a weapon. Hell they even used commercial video games as small training simulators, just to incorporate them into the weapon system. There's no way on God's green Earth that they're gonna let this one pass them by without trying to make it a weapon.

And the thing about the unmanned aircraft (or UAV). The NextGen is gonna have control over the aircraft, because they will plot a course for the UAV to follow and then leave it in the hands of NextGen, NextGen is gonna have complete control over it. The weapons systems are controlled by the unmanned controller of the UAV and that means that whoever has control over that UAV is gonna have control over the weapons as well.

It's kind of hard to find the sources for ALL the information I have on it because a lot of this information comes from a pilot directly. He's not a conspiracy theorist lol he tells me about this stuff and then I start thinking and then I present the idea to him and we start speculating. But he's the one who told me about the weapons systems on the UAV etc.

I'm not allowed to give his name or what his relationship to me is though.....

To me, all I'm sayin' is that the similarities are way to eerily similar to ignore. Whose to say this NextGen doesn't become sentient and then start taking us out the sneaky way by presenting itself as a human on the phone, telling the government to put all it's systems on NextGen, then when the time comes for it to reveal itself it will already be too late and NextGen will start Judgment Day..... That right there was just a spit ball theory, it holds no credible sources it's just me speculating so please don't comment on this telling me to support this one because it's just a speculation lol

I see what you mean. NextGen only handles positioning I think, so it wouldn't have any access to the weapons system (common sense would dictate so at least).

[daydream]

I, personally, am in favour of bringing all this robotic technology into the battlefield - as long as they are controlled via a human operator. The idea of 'terminators' controlled by humans at a computer from miles away; whereby the targets can be identified by the machine, but the actual actions taken are decided by the controller. Something akin to a screen with the program tracing red boxes around possible targets, and the operator shifting between them and pressing a 'shoot' button. Obviously though there would be problems keeping communications between the 'terminator' and the operator secure from hackers and whatnot. Of course, this is just a vague thing I would like to see in the future - no soldiers risking themselves. It all gives a rather ominous feeling to almost all of us though. I can't help thinking it would be awesome to work with programming on a project like that. It would probably never come about due to costs.

There seems to be a lot of trouble with walking and running for biped robots - but surely something like the below robot from terminator is creatable at present:

ares-terminator1.jpg

[/daydream]

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That actually sounds pretty interesting. PM me with some more details on that if you would please, I'd like to know more about this.

Caught it on a late night news report so no link. I will look tommorow though as it is an interesting issue. Particularly Camerons track record.

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I see what you mean. NextGen only handles positioning I think, so it wouldn't have any access to the weapons system (common sense would dictate so at least).

[daydream]

I, personally, am in favour of bringing all this robotic technology into the battlefield - as long as they are controlled via a human operator. The idea of 'terminators' controlled by humans at a computer from miles away; whereby the targets can be identified by the machine, but the actual actions taken are decided by the controller. Something akin to a screen with the program tracing red boxes around possible targets, and the operator shifting between them and pressing a 'shoot' button. Obviously though there would be problems keeping communications between the 'terminator' and the operator secure from hackers and whatnot. Of course, this is just a vague thing I would like to see in the future - no soldiers risking themselves. It all gives a rather ominous feeling to almost all of us though. I can't help thinking it would be awesome to work with programming on a project like that. It would probably never come about due to costs.

There seems to be a lot of trouble with walking and running for biped robots - but surely something like the below robot from terminator is creatable at present:

ares-terminator1.jpg

[/daydream]

That is a very interesting thing to think about. But the thought still arises..... "What IF they DO become sentient and believe we are a hindrance?" that in itself should be enough to stop the governments from doing something like that but obviously it won't. The only problem you have with biped robots and walking is the stiff movements of the legs, because they have to process the information required to move them before they actually do. However with the processing capabilities of today we are getting much closer to them being able to walk quite smoothly (Source: T.V. Documentary).

My only thing about NextGen is that it's going to be SO intelligent that it will have the capabilities to hold the lives of thousands of people at a time on the commercial jets throughout the world, it could plot a course directly to a mountain or something that would kill everyone on board. So it really doesn't need the weapons system to cause a lot of damage to the population, because if you think about it, how many people fly, everyday? Many thousands if not hundreds of thousands, and with the access that NextGen will have to the airplane computer it could rewrite the data in the black box to say the pilot did it or lost control of the aircraft, erasing the paper trail back to NextGen. So even if it doesn't have control over the weapons, it does have control over the flight path.

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Caught it on a late night news report so no link. I will look tommorow though as it is an interesting issue. Particularly Camerons track record.

Thank you, I really would love to hear more about this, it sounds like a very interesting read (or watch lol).

Like my father always told me "Arm yourself with knowledge and the weapons of the world grow dim!"

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Thank you, I really would love to hear more about this, it sounds like a very interesting read (or watch lol).

Like my father always told me "Arm yourself with knowledge and the weapons of the world grow dim!"

Try this for size...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1231158/Military-style-drones-set-patrol-coastline-spot-drug-smugglers-illegal-immigrants.html

There is stuff on youtube also.

Peace

Jim

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I agree that Hollywood does take things to the extreme, but only because it makes good entertainment - if everything was made factually correct then it would probably be boring. Your statement highlighted bold, however, is ridiculous. You cannot possibly know whether that could happen or not. It's highly unlikely, but we have to consider the technology available to us in the future. For example, Quantum computing. Moreover, there is work into Artificial Intelligence, and although Neural Networks and other devices are

only an approximation, we see positive results which in the future could lead to the development of near-human or human levels of intelligence simulation. Of course, the border between intelligence and sentience could be argued, and questions posed as to whether it is truly sentient. The problem with your statement is you seem to suggest it is completely impossible, whereas we do not yet know. For all we know, an artificial intelligence simulation could develop self-awareness in the future. Not likely, but we can't say impossible.

OK I recant my statement and put forth, CURRENTLY software IN ITS CURRENT FORM cannot randomly become sentient, and development of such technology in our lifetime is highly unlikely.

I like the way you say neural networks have has positive results since pretty much all of them have been massive failures.

look for a program to become sentient "randomly" you would need it to be able to edit its own coding (to make it so it can operate outside the bounds of its original coding) which it wouldnt be able to do because its not self aware (sentient). so for a piece of software to randomly become sentient it would require sentience to do so extremely unlikely even with advanced programs.

the only other way to randomly achieve sentience you would need independently evolving code which would kinda hint to start with that sentience is a possibility (so it wouldn't be unexpected sentience) and no1's gonna stick something that's changing its own code in charge of the worlds weapons.

(yes I have put this in very simply forms and substituted the word "code" for various other terms and not all terminology is correct just incase any computer wizz kids read this and moan)

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OK I recant my statement and put forth, CURRENTLY software IN ITS CURRENT FORM cannot randomly become sentient, and development of such technology in our lifetime is highly unlikely.

Much better :tu:

I like the way you say neural networks have has positive results since pretty much all of them have been massive failures.

There have been positive results - neural networks are a massive success in AI research. Look at optical character recognition, and projects such as ASIMO. This article shows numerous examples of the uses of neural networks today.

look for a program to become sentient "randomly" you would need it to be able to edit its own coding (to make it so it can operate outside the bounds of its original coding) which it wouldnt be able to do because its not self aware (sentient). so for a piece of software to randomly become sentient it would require sentience to do so extremely unlikely even with advanced programs.

the only other way to randomly achieve sentience you would need independently evolving code which would kinda hint to start with that sentience is a possibility (so it wouldn't be unexpected sentience) and no1's gonna stick something that's changing its own code in charge of the worlds weapons.

Not necessarily, as the article says:

The learning ability of the neural network overcomes the need to precisely define these instructions — instead the robot is 'taught' to perform in a particular way and creates its own instructions within its neural net.

Of course, I doubt anything like a neural network would do for what we're talking - but simulated intelligence of the kind ASIMO uses for movement doesn't need the instructions to move correctly hard coded into the actual software. Ironically:

In the military world neural nets are an essential component of virtually every smart-weapons system and every countermeasures system.
Edited by TheResearcher

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Actually dude. We do have programs that can think independently. They came out with a program that had a shark and a merman, the shark would pursue the merman and the merman would evade the shark, but here's the instance of sentience, when the mermen would notice that what he was doing wasn't working, he would try to find another way to evade the shark by hiding behind some coral and waiting for the shark to pass by, giving the merman an opportunity to run for it when he was clear, or he would stop in one spot and when the shark came close he would dart away and confuse the shark until he could get behind it where it couldn't see him. And this was back in the early early 21st century, like in 2001 when this came out so I can only imagine how far it's come since then.

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sky net?are you serious?get real!

you are taking what you see on the big screen way too far my friend!!!

skynet is made up crap from the terminator saga,nothing more.

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Computers cant randomly become sentient...weapon systems are controlled remotely(by a human).

Totally not going to happen.

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Computers cant randomly become sentient...weapon systems are controlled remotely(by a human).

Totally not going to happen.

If super computers had access to networks and they were threatened I think they could become sentient in the sense that they would want to continue to exist. The servant becomes the master perhaps. Where is the harm in retaining control, particularly with weapon systems? If civilians are killed who is responsible, the engineer, the manufacturer? There needs to be accountability and armed drones don't allow for this.

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If super computers had access to networks and they were threatened I think they could become sentient in the sense that they would want to continue to exist. The servant becomes the master perhaps. Where is the harm in retaining control, particularly with weapon systems? If civilians are killed who is responsible, the engineer, the manufacturer? There needs to be accountability and armed drones don't allow for this.

Perhaps in the future with computers programmed in such a way as to simulate intelligent behaviour. At present there's pretty much a zero chance of it happening. I agree with you about keeping a human in the loop - until there is foolproof object recognition of enemies (not likely to happen, humans can barely manage it) then a computer should never have the ability to make kill decisions.

Edited by TheResearcher

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has not happened,can never happen,never will happen,except in the movies! :ph34r::blush::sleepy:

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has not happened,can never happen,never will happen,except in the movies! :ph34r::blush::sleepy:

And what are your credentials for such an authoritarian statement? Are you perhaps a computer scientist who has just finished a thesis disproving any possibility of sentience in computers ever? Or are you merely an average joe who has an ironically closed mind, and no relevant knowledge?

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Hey guys! Sorry I haven't replied lately my schedule has been really hectic and has thrown my blood pressure and blood sugar way out of whack so I'm sorry if this doesn't really make too much sense, my blood sugar is extremely high and I'm kind of out of it right now but I'm gonna give it a tallyho anyway lol :yes: !

I don't think that anyone should bury their head in the sand about these kinds of topics because we ARE coming so far in our tech that we can simulate human intelligence (like I explained with the merman/shark program) so the only thing left to happen is for a system to come online that sees us as a threat to its existence and "terminate" us. By the way Skynet wasn't a computer, it was software, in the 3rd Terminator (Rise of the Machines) John Connor explains in the end that it couldn't have been stopped, that it was software not hardware that became sentient and with the probability coding that we have today a program can easily make a decision based on different probable factors due to the adaptive coding in the probability algorithms. And from your behavior "openmind1963" you sound like a troll, I'm not accusing you of anything at all I'm just saying that your behavior is starting to resemble a troll so if you're not one then defend your honor by providing some factual evidence for your claims, show us an article or journal by a real computer scientist that disproves the probability of software becoming sentient.

Well I hope you could understand that lol like I said, I'm pretty out of it right now because of my blood sugar so if I made any mistakes in my grammar or sentence structure then I would definitely not blame you for pointing them out to me so I can correct them lol in fact I welcome it lol please go over it and tell me if I made any mistakes lol one thing I don't like too much is bad grammar lol. (I use run-on sentences and maybe leave out punctuation on accident sometimes but I at least try to make my sentence structure good lol)

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