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Still Waters

Becoming vegetarian can harm the environment

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Except it doesn't give the land a chance to rest. true they use different things from the groumd but it never gets to rest.

The ground doesn't need to rest. It needs nitrogen fixation and that is what legume crops are for.

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You can consider this a spill over from another thread - where things got really techy. My apologies.

You will find plenty of evidence that certain proteins and fatty acids which are readily available in meat are more difficult to aquire from vegetables. However if you are a vegetarian and not a vegan, you still have access to all of these in the form of eggs and diary. Also all of these essential nutrients are available from vegetables - but you have to be a bit more savy about making certain that you get them. Meat makes life easy for the consumer, but not for the planet.

Its is definitely the case that western society consumes far to much meat protein as part of their diet and this puts a heavy load on the body systems. Most is lost in excreta or converted to less complex compounds. Since we are most closely related to chimps we should look to them for inspiration as to what level of meat we need to consume - and I think you would find that it would probably stretch to less than 5% with a good deal of that been in the form of insects.

Of the first true humans it is most probable that they got the bulk of their protein from seafood and this is probably why fish is so good for brain development. My grandparents lived on a diet of mostly vegetable (home grown) supplemented by fish from the lake and a very occassional bits of beef. They both lived over 100yrs. I cannot see my parents generation faring quite so well on their high meat and carbs diets.

Br Cornelius

i thought vegetarions couldn't eat meat or dairy since those are animal by products. ie your not a true vegi. if you eat those. they do have animal protien in them.

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The ground doesn't need to rest. It needs nitrogen fixation and that is what legume crops are for.

and what nutirates do beans and peas take from the ground in order for them to grow.

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I was a vegetarian for about 8 years, from the time I was 18 to 26, then the #$%&! i mean my ex and i, had our first child. The Doc told us that meat was essential to growth. And after watching one of my friends raise their child meatless, I decided it would be beneficial for us to start eating meat again. My friend’s kid was small, got ill all the time, and had some behavioral issues... not stating it was because he was vegetarian, but I do have my suspicions. My choice not to eat meat was not out of pity for the animals, in fact I would still eat eggs, milk and cheese. I just felt it wasn't necessary. At the time I was vegetarian, I was very athletic, and had no issues with fatigue or weakness. To this day I will only eat it once a day, and in small amounts..... unless its a BBQ, then its ON!! Anyway I will continue to feed meat to my children until they make that choice for themselves.

Anyway, I kinda think this article is a bit of propaganda from the meat industry. Raising Cattle is way more damaging to the environment. Not only do you need the land to raise the cow, but you also need a huge amount of land to grow hay for them to eat. Consider the amount of water needed to grow the hay, and all the pesticides that are used to protect it. These pesticides will eventually run off the fields and end up in our streams sometimes killing many of the fish that live there as well. Which is also not good for meat eaters!! Mmmmm trout If we could just cut down on the amount of meat being consumed then we would open up land for more veggies. Not all vegetarians go for that tofu grossness. Nor do they go for the processed soy or hell processed anything, If you have ever eaten a can of green beans you know what I’m talking about. Give me a fresh steamed broccoli burger dripping with cheese any day!!

Actually grass for hay is relatively easy to grow, grass is one of the hardiest plant types around. Soy is the one that does the damage. At present soy is the no.1 cause of rainforest destruction.

and what nutirates do beans and peas take from the ground in order for them to grow.

Ones that the other plants they are rotated with put back.

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You guys have fun with your tofu and green beans. I'll enjoy my shrimp and burgers and pepperoni pizza. ;)

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i thought vegetarions couldn't eat meat or dairy since those are animal by products. ie your not a true vegi. if you eat those. they do have animal protien in them.

A vegitarian eats cheese and milk and such. Vegans are the ones that don't eat ANY animal products but they where leather belts LOL

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Actually grass for hay is relatively easy to grow, grass is one of the hardiest plant types around. Soy is the one that does the damage. At present soy is the no.1 cause of rainforest destruction.

You do realise that most of that will end up as animal feed.

Br Cornelius

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If ye don' eat yer meat, ye don' git any puddin'!

honestly... if humans wern't supposed to eat meat.. they wouldn't have started to! lol M'dude is vegetarian.. he says it's an ethical reason and that it's more efficiant to get the nutriants et al from plants then animal. Except for the omega fatty 3.. which is from fish (mmmmm tuna..) I *tried* the whole veggy thing and it made me grumpy(er). -.- gimmee meat! *noms on ST's flank*

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If ye don' eat yer meat, ye don' git any puddin'!

honestly... if humans wern't supposed to eat meat.. they wouldn't have started to! lol M'dude is vegetarian.. he says it's an ethical reason and that it's more efficiant to get the nutriants et al from plants then animal. Except for the omega fatty 3.. which is from fish (mmmmm tuna..) I *tried* the whole veggy thing and it made me grumpy(er). -.- gimmee meat! *noms on ST's flank*

LOL make sure you leave room for desert LOL

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I *tried* the whole veggy thing and it made me grumpy(er)

Is that even possible :o

:P

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Both my children are and have been from birth.

Your children ever have any say in that?

I would love you to explain how my vegetarian from birth daughter is top of her class in all subjects and a reading age of 19 at age 13. Not bad for a crippled vegetarian brain.

Frankly that one was put to rest a long long time ago.

Br Cornelius

Meh, I had an adult reading age by the time I was 11, meat eater and proud. What can ya do. *shrug* I can brag too.

On the original topic, I would never give up meat. I'd get ill, and I already get enough of the snuffles that go around as it is. My health is too important to me to go without.

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Your children ever have any say in that?

Meh, I had an adult reading age by the time I was 11, meat eater and proud. What can ya do. *shrug* I can brag too.

On the original topic, I would never give up meat. I'd get ill, and I already get enough of the snuffles that go around as it is. My health is too important to me to go without.

Not bragging - just pointing out the fallacy of the point about IQ effects. And yes you could give up meat without ill health - you have just chosen to use health as a justification for your decision not to.

Children are not allowed to make many decisions until certain ages. If my children go on to become meat eaters then good for them, at the moment they find the idea rather disgusting.

Br Cornelius

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Not bragging - just pointing out the fallacy of the point about IQ effects. And yes you could give up meat without ill health - you have just chosen to use health as a justification for your decision not to.

Children are not allowed to make many decisions until certain ages. If my children go on to become meat eaters then good for them, at the moment they find the idea rather disgusting.

Br Cornelius

Not wanting too is one thing, but finding it disgusting is not particularly healthy as an attitude, it is something we are genetically programmed to do.

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Not bragging - just pointing out the fallacy of the point about IQ effects. And yes you could give up meat without ill health - you have just chosen to use health as a justification for your decision not to.

Children are not allowed to make many decisions until certain ages. If my children go on to become meat eaters then good for them, at the moment they find the idea rather disgusting.

Br Cornelius

I'd have a job, I'm incredibly picky. Maybe I could, I don't know. But I choose not to. Also one of my best friends is a vegetarian, has been since she was 8 years old and because she is picky too, she's had a very hard time of it trying to stay healthy.

But, so you can't say I'm hiding behind the 'excuse' of my health, I can say it without a 'justification' as you so put it. I would never give up meat. I have grown up close enough to the processes to not be ignorant of the change from cute pig to pork chop, and so have made a rather well-informed decision on the matter, and I still choose to consume meat.

Not wanting too is one thing, but finding it disgusting is not particularly healthy as an attitude, it is something we are genetically programmed to do.

My first thought was 'brainwashing' but that's a particularly incendiary remark (even though I'm saying it anyway- oops) but originally decided not to mention it- at least not in an offensive manner- because so many things people teach their children can technically be considered brainwashing...

But, I agree. It's a natural thing to do, and finding it 'disgusting' seems a little unhealthy in itself.

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I'd have a job, I'm incredibly picky. Maybe I could, I don't know. But I choose not to. Also one of my best friends is a vegetarian, has been since she was 8 years old and because she is picky too, she's had a very hard time of it trying to stay healthy.

But, so you can't say I'm hiding behind the 'excuse' of my health, I can say it without a 'justification' as you so put it. I would never give up meat. I have grown up close enough to the processes to not be ignorant of the change from cute pig to pork chop, and so have made a rather well-informed decision on the matter, and I still choose to consume meat.

My first thought was 'brainwashing' but that's a particularly incendiary remark (even though I'm saying it anyway- oops) but originally decided not to mention it- at least not in an offensive manner- because so many things people teach their children can technically be considered brainwashing...

But, I agree. It's a natural thing to do, and finding it 'disgusting' seems a little unhealthy in itself.

i am not here to judge anyones decisions, and find that a rather offensive thing to do. What I am trying to do is point out some obvious fallacies been put about without due consideration of the actual realities.

Occasionally I catch the odd pike or trout and eat it, I have encouraged my children to give it a go - no takers. So I cannot be accused of brainwashing them, its just what they are used to.

Br Cornelius

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I could never get use to my moms meatloaf, still a meat eater though as I toughed it out lol

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Is that even possible :o

:P

I know, shocking ainnit? *snickers and continues nomming ST*

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I know, shocking ainnit? *snickers and continues nomming ST*

OK missy I'm going to give an hour till you have to stop nomming me :lol:

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I'd just like to put my two cents worth in here, being a vegetarian, but maybe not for 'typical' reasons.

I don't eat meat because I'm a firm believer in the theory that if you eat it you should be prepared to kill it, skin it, cook it and eat it.

This attitude comes from seeing too many people thinking that chicken is something that comes pre-packaged in pink pieces.

I know that I couldn't kill, gut and prepare and animal - therefore I don't eat it.

However, I would take issue with the claim the a vegetarian diet can harm the environment. Admittedly some alternatives such as soya aren't always responsibly farmed, but condemning a vegetarian diet for including these is just as logical as condemning a carnivorous diet for potentially including Macdonald's.

The key here is a responsible, sustainable use of resources - it's neither carnivorous nor vegetarian diets that are exclusively at fault.

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*snickers* Ooook fiiine ST... *goes back to her tuna and rum*

Sthenno.. I can see your point of veiw, mainly because where I grew up.. yeah we did the whole.. seasonal hunting for deer thing. A good sized buck or two could keep a family with meat for the winter. I've helped skin and break down deer. I've fished/cleaned/and cooked bass and other lake fish.. So yeah, if I had to do that now.. I'd beable too. (though on the deer part.. I'll let someone with gun knowledge handle that. Not because I can't shoot bambi's mom.. I just ain't a fan of guns. But I'll sure as hell prepair her up. =P)

Butthe way our society evolved.. *shrugs* If people wanna get their meat from the store..

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*snickers* Ooook fiiine ST... *goes back to her tuna and rum*

Sthenno.. I can see your point of veiw, mainly because where I grew up.. yeah we did the whole.. seasonal hunting for deer thing. A good sized buck or two could keep a family with meat for the winter. I've helped skin and break down deer. I've fished/cleaned/and cooked bass and other lake fish.. So yeah, if I had to do that now.. I'd beable too. (though on the deer part.. I'll let someone with gun knowledge handle that. Not because I can't shoot bambi's mom.. I just ain't a fan of guns. But I'll sure as hell prepair her up. =P)

Butthe way our society evolved.. *shrugs* If people wanna get their meat from the store..

I guess I see it the other way round... we've evolved to a point where we don't need meat to get by - so why bother?

Don't get me wrong, were I stranded with no food and my only option was to eat meat, I would.

But I guess I feel that I live in a society where there are so many options that killing animals for food is a bit unnecessary.

As I say though, I have respect for people who can hunt, kill, prepare and cook their own food. but for me, being a massive softie who's unprepared to do any of those things, eating meat just feels a bit hypocritical

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a true vegetarian and or vegan would eat nothing but fruit. fruit being the only thing made be nature that is meant to be eaten. i would add also that you would need to take your dumps in the fields and grass yes even your front yard since that too is intended by nature.

Edited by danielost

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a true vegetarian and or vegan would eat nothing but fruit. fruit being the only thing made be nature that is meant to be eaten. i would add also that you would need to take your dumps in the fields and grass yes even your front yard since that too is intended by nature.

Say what? only fruit? So you mean god intened man to only eat fruits. I think you have that wrong daniel......... oh wait you mean the kind that grow on trees, you had me wondering there for a sec lol. Really though, man was never meant to eat just fruit or vegetable or meat. We evolved to take full advantage of anything edible.

Get back here SC you missed a bit LOL ;)

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Say what? only fruit? So you mean god intened man to only eat fruits. I think you have that wrong daniel......... oh wait you mean the kind that grow on trees, you had me wondering there for a sec lol. Really though, man was never meant to eat just fruit or vegetable or meat. We evolved to take full advantage of anything edible.

Get back here SC you missed a bit LOL ;)

3

i know i was just saying.

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again, Stenobeans, it's just how our society evolved. Our ancestors decided to "grow" our meats on farms et al just to make it easier for us to get the nommy flank steaks and chickens ect ect ect..

It would be more enviromentaly depremental if we all stopped eating meat. We'd have to let the zillions of cattle go free which would ruin the land 'specialy since humans culled natural breditors that are big enough to pick off a cow down to poultry numbers.. Same with the chickens.. the turkeys would die out since we've geneticaly bred them in such away that they can't even coppulate anymore. Then we'd still be sliceing down thousands and thousands of acres to grow enough crops and protine substitute crops to feed everyone..

ugh and Corn would probaly still be in everything *makes a face* that's what really ruined our health.. corn..

ROFL make up your miiind ST! *gnaws on the other flank*

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