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Samuronin

[Merged] Dyatlov Pass incident

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  1. 1. What happened to them?

    • Murder
    • Alien Abduction
    • Bigfoot
    • Werewolves/Vampire /Skinwalkers
    • Government Cover-up
    • Gang Attack
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    • Supernatural Causes
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209 posts in this topic

This could be due to some sort of weapon (if there was one) but it's still pretty mysterious.

Alien sort of weapon.

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Here are the Unanswered Questions of this fascinating case:

- Was Dubinina’s tongue ripped out before or after she died? Forensic science was still quite primitive in 1959 but the amount of bleeding she experienced can easily answer this question. This is a truly important. If it was ripped out before she died then she was likely the conscious victim of a vicious attack by a person or persons unknown. If it was after she died then scavenger predation is more likely.

- How deep was the ravine in which the final four victims were found? Could a natural fall account for their injuries?

- Did aircraft (secret or otherwise) with jet engines undertake flights in this region on the date that the “Dyatlov Pass Accident” occurred?

- Why did the Soviet Authorities deem this event important enough to classify this subject for 30 years?

- Where is the missing envelope that is supposedly identified in the declassified papers? What is in it?

- In the 50’s people were far more obsessed with accurate paperwork than they are today. To seal off a region would have required many and various authorisations and permit ions. Where are these records? What reasons do they give for the requested actions that were apparently approved?

- What are the details of the skull injury experienced by Nicolas Thibeaux-Brignollel? This information alone could go a very long way to solving the mystery. For example, is it an impact injury or a comprehensive pressure injury? Was there retinal detachment? Was he alive or dead when it happened?

- The “snowfall anomaly” refers to the fact that some of the bodies found – those returning to the camp – were buried under snow. How is it that enough snow fell to burry these bodies but tracks that were found higher up the hill were preserved in such a good condition that investigators could (allegedly) tell that at least one person had been barefoot?

- One member of the team - Alexander Zolotarev – was significantly older than the others and at 37 almost twice the age of the youngest. What was his profession and what was his connection to the team?

I don't think we will ever get the answers to these questions. Something disastrous clearly happened on 2 February 1959 but hard facts are scarce and the real sources of this mystery are very few when traced back to their actual origin. I still think they were at the wrong place at the wrong time, That certain military tests were conducted very close to the where the ski-team had camped. The authorities conducting the tests were probably unaware that the ski-team was even in the vicinity. The weapon, if it exists at all, was probably an air burst concussion device with a possibly chemical warfare component.

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Here are the Unanswered Questions of this fascinating case:

- Was Dubinina’s tongue ripped out before or after she died? Forensic science was still quite primitive in 1959 but the amount of bleeding she experienced can easily answer this question. This is a truly important. If it was ripped out before she died then she was likely the conscious victim of a vicious attack by a person or persons unknown. If it was after she died then scavenger predation is more likely.

- How deep was the ravine in which the final four victims were found? Could a natural fall account for their injuries?

- Did aircraft (secret or otherwise) with jet engines undertake flights in this region on the date that the “Dyatlov Pass Accident” occurred?

- Why did the Soviet Authorities deem this event important enough to classify this subject for 30 years?

- Where is the missing envelope that is supposedly identified in the declassified papers? What is in it?

- In the 50’s people were far more obsessed with accurate paperwork than they are today. To seal off a region would have required many and various authorisations and permit ions. Where are these records? What reasons do they give for the requested actions that were apparently approved?

- What are the details of the skull injury experienced by Nicolas Thibeaux-Brignollel? This information alone could go a very long way to solving the mystery. For example, is it an impact injury or a comprehensive pressure injury? Was there retinal detachment? Was he alive or dead when it happened?

- The “snowfall anomaly” refers to the fact that some of the bodies found – those returning to the camp – were buried under snow. How is it that enough snow fell to burry these bodies but tracks that were found higher up the hill were preserved in such a good condition that investigators could (allegedly) tell that at least one person had been barefoot?

- One member of the team - Alexander Zolotarev – was significantly older than the others and at 37 almost twice the age of the youngest. What was his profession and what was his connection to the team?

I don't think we will ever get the answers to these questions. Something disastrous clearly happened on 2 February 1959 but hard facts are scarce and the real sources of this mystery are very few when traced back to their actual origin. I still think they were at the wrong place at the wrong time, That certain military tests were conducted very close to the where the ski-team had camped. The authorities conducting the tests were probably unaware that the ski-team was even in the vicinity. The weapon, if it exists at all, was probably an air burst concussion device with a possibly chemical warfare component.

Maybe this would be helpful.

http://www.aquiziam.com/dyatlov_pass_answers.html

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Hey L what do you think of the video i posted yesterday ?? Very good stuff in my opinion...

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- Was Dubinina’s tongue ripped out before or after she died? Forensic science was still quite primitive in 1959 but the amount of bleeding she experienced can easily answer this question. This is a truly important. If it was ripped out before she died then she was likely the conscious victim of a vicious attack by a person or persons unknown. If it was after she died then scavenger predation is more likely.

It's a shame so many cases like this could have been solved or at least partially explained had forensic science been more prevalent in those times. I was just wondering about something though. If her tongue had been ripped out by an animal, wouldn't there have been other scratch and/or teeth marks elsewhere on her body? I don't know what parts scavengers generally go for, but it seems like there would have at least been other indications. Was there any evidence of nearby animals at the camp?

Sweet video you posted by the way. :tu:

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It's a shame so many cases like this could have been solved or at least partially explained had forensic science been more prevalent in those times. I was just wondering about something though. If her tongue had been ripped out by an animal, wouldn't there have been other scratch and/or teeth marks elsewhere on her body? I don't know what parts scavengers generally go for, but it seems like there would have at least been other indications. Was there any evidence of nearby animals at the camp?

Sweet video you posted by the way. :tu:

Thanks K. No, we have no report of any animals near the camp or the area where the tragedy happened. What is really strange is that both the bodies of Lyudmila Dubinina and Alexander Zolotarev had traces of radiation. It is almost certain that the area had been used to test experimental military equipment in the past. It is very possible that it was still in use, that's the feeling i have since i first read about the case two or three years ago.

Here is the timelime of events:

- First traveling by train, the group arrives at Ivdel (Ивдель), a central city of the northern province of Sverdlovsk, Oblast where they stay the night.

- The group catch a lift with a truck that takes them to Vizhay where they stay the night.

- The group starts their march towards “Gora Otorten”.

- Yury Yudin becomes ill and turns back to Vizhay. The others continue their trek towards Gora Otorten by following the valley and river.

- The group reaches the edge of the highland zone where they will break away from the River. They spend the day preparing for the climb. According to the “March Plan” they intended to leave a stock of supplies in a corn chandler’s shop. However another account suggests that they actually constructed a shelter in a nearby wooded area for the same reason.

- The group set off for what will be their last campsite. The distance they will travel is not great and is only about 2.5 miles - although a steep incline through the forest as well as weather and snow conditions may have made the journey very slow going.

- Ttowards the evening of the 2nd of February they find themselves on the slopes of Kholat-Syakhl (a Mansi name, meaning Mountain of the Dead). They set up camp on the exposed slope of this mountain some 10 miles from their destination - Gora Otorten. Evidence from the photographs suggests that they were in a positive frame of mind. They had cleared the trees and skiing should become easier from this point to the mountain.

- Tired, at least some of the Group settle down for the night. This is apparently evidenced by the fact that at least some of them were not fully clothed when they abandoned the tents. The temperature outside is bitterly cold – some say as low as -18 degrees Celsius. (To be honest, it is strange that they took off any clothes at all in these hostile temperatures. When members of the team camped near Berlin, Germany, in early December 2004 the temperature dropped to minus 17 degrees Celsius and we slept with all our cloths on including our boots.) Whatever the conditions, some of the Group felt relaxed enough to undress. This is perhaps the strongest evidence that they were not experiencing anything significantly out of the ordinary.

- The timing of this is calculated based on the undigested food in the stomachs of the deceased. The group, in various states of undress, cut or rips through the sides of the tent(s) and flees downhill to the nearest forest. There is no doubt that they are scared and in a hurry. They know they will not survive long in the outside temperature so must be fleeing for their very lives. Why they should need to cut through the tent is bizarre in itself? Had they tied the fastenings shut and didn’t have time to untie them? These and other still unanswered questions will be raised later to this section. Tracks found in the snow suggest that the group was scattered at first but came back together some distance (+/-300m) down the slope.

- It appears that the whole group hides under a larger than average pine tree on the edge of a nearby forest approximately 0.8 to 1.55 miles from their tents. Evidence of clothes transfer (sharing) significantly suggests they initially stayed together as a group.

- Desperately cold but clearly in mortal fear of returning to their tents, they light a fire. For possibly two hours they remain where they are. The fire helps but Igor Dyatlov knows that it is not enough to keep them alive. The “great” pine tree is lower than the campsite and broken branches suggest that at least one of the team tries to climb it to see if they can view what is happening. Desperate and disoriented three members of the team decide to try and return to the tents. Igor Dyatlov, Zinaida (Zina) Kolmogorova and Rustem Slobodin make this superhuman effort. Already near dead from hypothermia, or something else, they fail to make it and collapse at various intervals. Their deaths are inevitable. They are found separately at 300, 480 and 630 meters from the pine tree.

- When the leader of the team fails to re-emerge, the remaining members of the group wait for some sign of hope. Two further members, Georgyi Krivonischenko and Yuri Doroshenko die from cold while waiting. (It may be that these two died before Dyatlov decides to try for the tents and their deaths may have been the catalyst for the decision) The remaining members of the Group are desperately afraid.

- The members of the group that are still alive take the clothes from the dead bodies of their comrades. In particular, Dubinina wraps her feet in the trouser no longer needed by Krivonischenko. Straining their eyes they look in the direction of the tents. Finally they make the decision to move further away along and into the woods. It is likely that it was at this time that the injuries sustained by this group occur.

- The survivors make it a further 75 – 700 metres into and along the woods before descending into a ravine. They huddle together but it is clear that Nicolas is dead. They wait and as they do Dubinina dies from chest injuries and hypothermia. Alexander Zolotarev takes (or is given) her coat and hat to try and keep himself warm.

- Alexander Zolotarev dies from a combination of chest injuries and hypothermia.

- Alexander Kolevatov, frozen, afraid, alone and exhausted drifts off to sleep – he will never awake.

- Between the time of her death and the discovery of her body three months later something examines the bodies lying in the ravine. Dubanina’s head is thrown back with her mouth open just as it was while she took her last dying breath. Her tongue may already be frozen as something rips it, and possibly the lining of her oral cavity, from her body.

- 12 February 1959: This is the date that the Dyatlov Ski Team were meant to arrive in the town of Vishay and send a telegram announcing the completion of their route. They do not arrive and obviously no telegram is sent. This is the first real indication that something has gone wrong. However, a later converstation with B. E. Slobtsovym sugests that the team had planned an extention to their trip and would hav only arrived in Vishay on the 14th.

(http://www.aquiziam.com/dyatlov_pass_1.html)

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Hey L what do you think of the video i posted yesterday ?? Very good stuff in my opinion...

It was good video. And bravo for that time line of incident. My theory is little different. The group never split.

Edited by the L

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An avalanche is the most likely explanation, unless anybody can come up with facts that conclusively prove it wasn't an avalanche.

Edited by Waymarker

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An avalanche is the most likely explanation, unless anybody can come up with facts that conclusively prove it wasn't an avalanche.

It's a very good Theory, However : How could three people sustain such crippling injuries by falling into a shallow ravine? Also ... a study of the photographs indicates that there was actually a very, very small chance of an avalanche.

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Little avalanche scared them when they were in tent Imo. But avalanche didnt killed them. Avalanche that brokes 12 ribs and crushed someone skull must be realy big avalanche and Investigators told that there was no sign of other traces and avalanche...

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It's a very good Theory, However : How could three people sustain such crippling injuries by falling into a shallow ravine? Also ... a study of the photographs indicates that there was actually a very, very small chance of an avalanche.

Not to mention the alleged orange tint to their skin and high levels of radiation on their clothes. If there was an avalanche, I think there was something else at work as well.

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Hummmm, what about the orange spheres that the other hiking group saw? I'm like the poster above, it wasn't an avalanche. Something happened that frightened them and the crush injuries with no external signs are still unexplained.

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Not to mention the alleged orange tint to their skin and high levels of radiation on their clothes. If there was an avalanche, I think there was something else at work as well.

Yes, well said K, Both the bodies of Lyudmila Dubinina and Alexander Zolotarev had traces of radiation, and After the funerals, relatives of the deceased claimed that the skin of the victims had a strange orange tan, just like you said K.In a private interview, a former investigating officer said that his dosimeter had shown a high radiation level on Kholat Syakhl, and that this was the reason for the radiation found on the bodies. However, the source of the contamination was not found. And like Acrimoni said Another group of hikers (about 50 kilometers south of the incident) reported that they saw strange orange spheres in the night sky to the north (likely in the direction of Kholat Syakhl)on the night of the incident. Similar "spheres" were observed in Ivdel and adjacent areas continually during the period of February to March 1959, by various independent witnesses (including the meteorology service and the military). So in my opinion the Avalanche theory is not very strong.

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Such an interesting case. after finding this incident on here I decided to read anything I could find. I am not a big fan of the avalanche theory as I am still trying to find anywhere where an an avalanche is mentioned. I do however believe that them hearing the echos of an avalanche on another mountain could have scared them out of their tent. For those of us who have been up in the mountains you know that sounds can travel long distances and be projected as though they sound like they are coming from somewhere else. If they heard an avalanche and it sounded like it was above them that could account for the fast escape they made. However is does not account for why they would not have gone back to the tents after they would have realized there was no avalanche.

I am just thinking out loud here.

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Orange skin and radiation didn’t happen according to Russians. Those two had small doses of radiation from her coat. Orange tan speculation came from sepia pictures.

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Orange skin and radiation didn’t happen according to Russians. Those two had small doses of radiation from her coat. Orange tan speculation came from sepia pictures.

The orange skin came up when relatives noticed it at the funerals. Where did you find mention of sepia pictures?

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Couldn't the skin tone simply be winter/high altitude sunburn?

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Couldn't the skin tone simply be winter/high altitude sunburn?

I'd say that's completely possible. There's just not enough of a description from any eyewitnesses to really hazard a guess.

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Some people claims that some of the victims had grey hairs, again no way of knowing if this is true or not.

But what is really strange in my opinion is the fact that the Russian government seems to hide something when it comes to that case. Where are the documents from the partial declassification? Whatever happened that night it genuinely worried the Russian authorities. Please understand that Russia at this time was not an easily “scared” country. Castro was weeks away from taking over Cuba, Russian expansionism was at its peak and the Russian military had the rest of the world in a state-of-fear. Two years ago, six members of the original search party and 31 independent experts gathered in Yekaterinburg for a conference organised by Ural State Technical University, the Dyatlov Foundation and several nongovernmental organisations. They concluded that the military had been carrying out tests in the area and had inadvertently caused the deaths. I still think it's what happened.

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The orange skin came up when relatives noticed it at the funerals. Where did you find mention of sepia pictures?

http://www.aquiziam.com/dyatlov_pass_answers.html

Is it true that the bodies that were discovered were a strange orange colour?

It is not true that the first bodies that were discovered had a significant orange discolouration. This is because they were found quite soon after the event took place.

The bodies discovered almost two months later did exhibit orange discolouration but this is normal and often experienced by rescue teams that have the unfortunate task of recovering such remains. This aspect of the story has been enhanced by the fact that some of the photographs taken at the time have degenerated and the “sepia” (orange) pigments in the images have become more evident.

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they need to make a horror movie about this. and be original!

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I'm not sure if this has been stated but the hikers were all very experienced. They would have assessed the likelihood of an avalanche before setting up camp, and would have known what to do if an avalanche did take place. However, whilst the gradient of the hill they camped on *was* steep enough for an avalanche to occur (unlikely but not impossible) there was no evidence of an avalanche when the rescue team found their bodies. Furthermore, there were visible footprints from at least 3 weeks or so after they died, which also casts doubt on the avalanche theory.

Also, they all ran downhill towards the forest, which was the WORST place to run to if they actually believed an avalanche was taking/was about to take place. You can't 'outrun' an avalanche and you certainly don't run downhill from one. The hikers would have KNOWN this.

Also, I don't believe that cabin fever or some other strange psychological reason is the explanation for their behaviour. They all actually seemed to behave quite rationally. They tried to build a fire. Clothes were stripped from the dead. They tried to climb a tree to (presumably) relocate their tent or have a look at what was going on. They didn't 'run round like idiots' and I don't think paradoxical undressing even took place. Shoes and clothes were left INSIDE the tent, not strewn about the bodies. If paradoxical undressing had taken place the clothes would have been found NEXT to their bodies or at least within a few meters. They clearly woke up from sleep (and by the way, 'underwear' does not refer to cotton pants etc. but thermal underwear. Sharing a tent with 8 others would make the inside of the tent quite warm, and they had blankets, and I don't think it's normal to keep all of your day gear on to go to sleep when you're hiking. Sleeping in their thermals makes perfect sense) and slashed the tent in a blind panic. As previously stated, these were EXPERIENCED campers. They knew that by running out half dressed they were running to their deaths, but whatever they felt was happening, or was about to happen had they stayed in the tent, was clearly a more terrifying prospect. Due to the footprint being visible and the fact that they made it over 1km away means that clearly an avalanche was not TAKING place as they ran. Like I said, you can't outrun an avalanche, and if it had happened after they'd made it to the forest the tent would have been wiped out or buried.

So obviously there was no immediate danger from an avalanche. Even if they *thought* one was happening or about to happen, surely they would have realised after a running a while that actually nothing seemed to be happening? I mean.. I don't know much about natural disasters but when an avalanche hits it doesn't waste any time does it?? Also I don't believe that these experienced hikers would have just woken up, thought '**** - avalanche?' and then just run out without thinking to certain death. There had to have been some other reason. Once 2 of the hikers had died by the fire, the group DIVIDED. Interestingly, it was the more warmly dressed members who tried to keep walking AWAY from the campsite. Apparently they seemed to be headed in the direction of the last place where they knew would be supplies, shelter, etc. But that was MUCH FUTHER away than the tent they had set up the night before. There must have been a reason why these hikers felt that walking this much greater distance was a better bet than RETURNING to the tent. Something was happening there that they didn't want to return to. It was only the members who HAD NO CHOICE who tried to return to the tent. Attempting the walk would have been absolute suicide for them so they had to try and get back to the tent.

Sadly, even the warmly dressed folk succumbed to death, and these were the ones who sustained the bizarre injuries.

I don't really have any explanation but all I can guess is that any human or animal cause can be ruled out. Alcohol and psychological impairment can be ruled out. Avalanche (actual occurrence) can be ruled out, though perhaps not FEAR OF an avalanche - though the behaviour is not consistent with experienced hikers who knew of the dangers and would have known the procedure of how to react.

Edited by loveinabox

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p.s. it was not just the tongue that was missing. It included the parts that extend down into the throat. Sorry I can't remember the medical term! But a scavenger would not have had the strength to pull it out. It had to have been pulled out with considerable force.

Also, I believe the injuries sustained were not the reason for the remaining hiker's deaths. Had the injuries been acquired in the tent, I don't see how whatever it was would have left the others completely unharmed. This wasn't just a single broken bone - the ribs were SMASHED. How could only a few members of the group sustain such terrible injuries and not the others?

Also the woman with the rib injuries had one pierce her heart. If this had happened whilst she was alive she would have only had about 20 mins to live, but i believe she was one of the ones that made it furthest from the campsite, meaning others perished before she did. This makes no sense. So I believe the injury occured after death.

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The key to this is whatever happened at the tent. Everything else can be explained, from the undressed state of some of the bodies to the missing tongue, and oral cavity. I did notice the detailed, and very informative article, that there was a brief mention of eleven bodies. The article also indicates that the Soviet government did not wish to start a small scale conflict with the Mansi people. So, this is my theory:

A small group of the Mansi attacked the camp, waking the team in a panic. They managed to escape, and ran to the pine tree. The assailants fell behind, or otherwise could not locate the party, and succumbed to the cold. The rest of the events happen as per the time line, some of the group believe that they should hike through the woods, likely not thinking clearly due to the extreme cold, and the "attack". The rest, thinking a bit more clear, want to go back to the only chance they have to survive.

The group debates the course of action while at the tree and near the relative safety of the fire. They remain undecided, and decide that a small group will carefully make toward the tent to see if there is danger. Unfortunately, the group headed toward the tent dies of exposure. This, combined with the death of the group members found at the tree, push the survivors over the edge, and into action.

They make their way into the woods, however, they are at this point basically running on instinct. Their nerves are likely shot, and their bodies numb. The lack of visibility, and ravine take care of the rest. Perhaps one stumbled, and fell causing the others to attempt to save them. Or perhaps they, at this point nearly dead, decided to jump. Regardless, sad yes, supernatural, no.

Regarding the other bodies mentioned, bringing the total to eleven? The government realized they were Mansi, and had them removed quickly so as to avoid any sort of conflict with the local people.

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