Fury as U.S. boy, 11, is to be tried as adult

[TheBloom]

I feel like that too which is why I dont come into this section very often.

And to judge him based on those few pics is unwise I think and to say that a 12yr should be murdered by the state because you can see the coldness in his eyes(from a mug shot..), or from assuming he cant be helped(he is only 12..), is just bizarre.

It's ridiculous. Coldness in his eyes? It's a mug shot of a traumatised 11 year old boy...

I know a lot of you can't accept the fact that some people are just born evil, but it's a truth we have to deal with, like it or not.

And what if you don't beleive in Evil? I do not believe in Evil and don't believe people are just born it either.

What's born evil? Jealousy and anger are also truths we have to deal with, like it or not. For an 11 yr. old that's not evil, that's immaturity, a problem some adults have never outgrown. I think this boy was spoiled and accustomed to having his dad's attention. All of a sudden he has to share his world with a whole new family and he can't control it. Whether or not this woman hurt him in some way or taunted him remains to be seen at trial. You can't just say this kid is evil, because you don't yet know the facts. How can you say he's unrehabilitatable? I'm not worried. If he is he's never getting out.

RIGHT ON TARGET!

[Sweetpumper]

And what if you don't beleive in Evil? I do not believe in Evil and don't believe people are just born it either.

Well, it exists and if you fail to recognize it, you become an easy target and perhaps an unwilling victim.

You can believe whatever you want to believe but it doesn't make it true.

[+susieice]

Well, it exists and if you fail to recognize it, you become an easy target and perhaps an unwilling victim.

You can believe whatever you want to believe but it doesn't make it true.

You become an easier target when you leave weapons accessible to a child who is too young to control their emotions.

[Sweetpumper]

He just would've used another method.

[+susieice]

He just would've used another method.

I've not heard of many young children stabbing their parents to death or beating them with a baseball bat while they sleep. They find guns and act on impulse. A lot of times they shoot themselves or someone in the room because they find them and start playing with them. That is not responsible parenting or responsible gun ownership.

This kid is facing a lot of traumatic times as he matures and realizes just what he did.

[Sweetpumper]

This kid is facing a lot of traumatic times as he matures and realizes just what he did.

If he's a true psychopath (which I'm assuming is the reason he's being tried as an adult), he will not face any traumatic times and he knows exactly what he did.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Sweetpumper

[+susieice]

If he's a true psychopath, he will not face any traumatic times and he knows exactly what he did.

If.

[Sweetpumper]

If they don't think they can rehab him in the next nine years, I'm gonna say it's probably the case.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Sweetpumper

[+susieice]

If they don't think they can rehab him in the next nine years, I'm gonna say it's probably the case.

And I'm going to say that if dad had taken some responsibility for the weapon he gave his son for Christmas, none of this would have happened.

[Sweetpumper]

Yeah, it would have. Gun or not. The woman and fetus were in his way. Now they're not and that was his goal.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Sweetpumper

[+susieice]

Yeah, it would have. Gun or not. The woman and fetus were in his way. Now they're not and that was his goal.

They're more in his way now than they ever were. And without the gun, it wouldn't have been so easy.

[Sweetpumper]

He doesn't care about the consequences.

A knife would've worked too. Or a screwdriver.

[shrewgoddess]

A child cannot be diagnosed as a psychopath. I can't remember the reason why and I'm not at home where I can ask my brother who is in school for Forensic Psychology. I just remember him telling me that while he was studying. It can, however, be noted that he has psychopathic tendencies. Typically, psychologists seem to want to err on the side of rehabilitation. I, too, am going to agree that if a team of doctors don't think he can be rehabilitated, they've noted these tendencies and he will be diagnosed when he becomes an adult.

Legally speaking, the judge is taking a chance by having him tried as an adult. If the prosecutor asked the judge to try him as an adult, he must be fairly certain that he will get a conviction. There is certainly evidence which we know nothing about. And, just because we don't know motives and details of the case, those involved certainly know all there is to know at this moment. There's no doubt in my mind that it will be difficult to find a jury who will be completely willing to convict a 12 year old boy to murder if it will mean he has to spend the next 70 years in prison. It could very well happen. The judge then still has to sentence him to life without parole. He could be tried as an adult and not get the maximum sentence. That seems to me to be the most likely outcome. He won't be given directly into adult population. He'd go to a juvenile detention center until he is 18 or 21, then transferred to an adult facility.

That seems, to me, to be the appropriate measures to take in this case as he will. If he is sentence to life with the possibility of parole, he can be evaluated at differing times for his suitability for the outside world. If he is not found suitable, then he can stay in.

[Sweetpumper]

A child cannot be diagnosed as a psychopath.

These children have a character disturbance. They devalue others and lack a sense of morality. Such incidents as those described above have made it increasingly clear that psychopathy is not exclusively an adult manifestation. In fact, some child development experts believe that childhood psychopathy is increasing at an alarming rate. In the research, these children are regarded as "fledgling psychopaths" who will become increasingly more dangerous as they get older. They might not become killers but they will learn how to manipulate, deceive and exploit others for their own gain. It is generally believed that they have failed to develop affectional bonds that allow them to empathize with another's pain. What they have developed are traits of arrogance, dishonesty, narcissism, shamelessness, and callousness.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/psychopath/1.html

Edited April 29, 2010 by Sweetpumper

[zenfahr]

I agree with sweetpumper... the kid is a psychopath. Normal young children do NOT execute their parents or their parents friends, or even their pets. Remove this kid from our society, I don’t want him around my children.

[+susieice]

A child cannot be diagnosed as a psychopath. I can't remember the reason why and I'm not at home where I can ask my brother who is in school for Forensic Psychology. I just remember him telling me that while he was studying. It can, however, be noted that he has psychopathic tendencies. Typically, psychologists seem to want to err on the side of rehabilitation. I, too, am going to agree that if a team of doctors don't think he can be rehabilitated, they've noted these tendencies and he will be diagnosed when he becomes an adult.

Legally speaking, the judge is taking a chance by having him tried as an adult. If the prosecutor asked the judge to try him as an adult, he must be fairly certain that he will get a conviction. There is certainly evidence which we know nothing about. And, just because we don't know motives and details of the case, those involved certainly know all there is to know at this moment. There's no doubt in my mind that it will be difficult to find a jury who will be completely willing to convict a 12 year old boy to murder if it will mean he has to spend the next 70 years in prison. It could very well happen. The judge then still has to sentence him to life without parole. He could be tried as an adult and not get the maximum sentence. That seems to me to be the most likely outcome. He won't be given directly into adult population. He'd go to a juvenile detention center until he is 18 or 21, then transferred to an adult facility.

That seems, to me, to be the appropriate measures to take in this case as he will. If he is sentence to life with the possibility of parole, he can be evaluated at differing times for his suitability for the outside world. If he is not found suitable, then he can stay in.

He murdered a pregnant woman. Since he is being tried as an adult, under Pennsylvania law, it is a mandatory sentence of life without the possibility of parole. He will be held in a high security juvenile facility and then transfered to a state penitenary when he is 21. It will be at least 15 years before his release would even be considered during which time his response to therapy and his behavior in lock up will determine whether or not he will be released. He will be eligible for appeals, but it is going to be a long time before this kid goes anywhere. That's why he's being tried as an adult.

[+susieice]

I agree with sweetpumper... the kid is a psychopath. Normal young children do NOT execute their parents or their parents friends, or even their pets. Remove this kid from our society, I don’t want him around my children.

He is a very disturbed young man and will definitely be removed from society for a long time to come. A true psychopath would have killed the other 2 children in the house also. They were infringing on his territory too. Dad would have been in trouble with the rest of them. His target was the woman and until trial when the facts are presented, we don't know why.

[Sweetpumper]

A true psychopath would have killed the other 2 children in the house also.

That's not necessarily true. Anyway, what other children? Nowhere does it say there are any other kids in the house.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Sweetpumper

[+susieice]

That's not necessarily true. Anyway, what other children? Nowhere does it say there are any other kids in the house.

Yes it does Sweetpumper. Re-read the article. He hid the shotgun under a blanket so the woman's 7 yr. old daughter wouldn't see it and her 4 yr. old daughter told workers outside the house that she thought her mom was dead. He didn't want the 7 yr. old to see what he was going to do. Clearly he knew it was wrong, but he didn't want the girl to see. He was aware of someone else's feelings. Not the actions of a true psychopath. His vendetta was for the woman alone.

[Sweetpumper]

Huh. That's in Still Waters quote but not in the link-? Weird. It just says he shot her in the back of the head and went to school.

It's more likely that the reason it was only her and the baby was that she was having a boy. The girls didn't present a threat to him. He didn't care about the seven year old's feelings, he just didn't want her to foul up his plans.

[pallidin]

Being tried as an adult does not mean that, upon conviction, an 11/12 year-old gets incarcerated as an adult(yet)

What it does mean is that the penalties are the same. Still, because of "cruel and inhumane punishment" clauses, a minor will first go to locked juvenile detention then, after the appropriate age be transferred to adult prison.

Example: A twelve year old killing 50 people and given multiple life sentences WILL NOT go directly to adult prison. Upon reaching the age for an adult in that state, that person is transferred.

Edited April 29, 2010 by pallidin

[+susieice]

Huh. That's in Still Waters quote but not in the link-? Weird. It just says he shot her in the back of the head and went to school.

It's more likely that the reason it was only her and the baby was that she was having a boy. The girls didn't present a threat to him. He didn't care about the seven year old's feelings, he just didn't want her to foul up his plans.

Still Waters quoted the beginning of the article. How would a seven year old stand in the way of a boy carrying a shotgun? He could have shot her just as easily as anyone else. A weapon had been made easily available to him. Had it not been, it's likely this wouldn't have happened, at least not so easily. The girls didn't present a threat to him, but I would hope the father didn't just ignore them because they were girls or not his children. There's the start of a bad relationship from the get-go. He was jealous and angry about his new family, but for some reason he targeted this woman. The pregnancy probably didn't help matters. You seem to think I'm condoning what this kid did and I'm not. The OP was that people were angry this boy was to be tried as an adult and he should be. Then people were angry he wasn't facing the death penalty which I will not support for an 11 yr. old. Now he's been deemed a psychopath, which I don't believe has been proven. Only when the facts are presented at trial will we know what the boy was thinking at the time he did this. I hope Still Waters keeps us posted on this or I will if my local news carries anything on the case. I do live in PA and I support trying this child as an adult as does my neighbors and co-workers whom I've discussed this with. We all agree the father should take some responsiblity for allowing this child unsupervised access to this weapon in the first place.

[Sweetpumper]

I'm keeping an eye on this but there's really nothing new yet. Allowing the four year old to find his mom's brains splattered all over the place would probably place him on the "Couldn't care less about the girls feelings" list also.

Houk's body was only found when her four-year-old daughter told workers outside the house that she thought her mother was dead.

Still Waters doesn't have to keep us posted, we can do it!

I'm particularly interested in this because I know a couple that has a psychopathic kid. He's thirteen and they are at wits end and ready to emancipate him to the state.

[+susieice]

I'm keeping an eye on this but there's really nothing new yet. Allowing the four year old to find his mom's brains splattered all over the place would probably place him on the "Couldn't care less about the girls feelings" list also.

Still Waters doesn't have to keep us posted, we can do it!

I'm particularly interested in this because I know a couple that has a psychopathic kid. He's thirteen and they are at wits end and ready to emancipate him to the state.

OK. I understand now.

Nowhere in the article does it say this boy had any previous problems with his temperment. We don't know if he ever hurt someone else or abused animals or anything that's usually connected to a psychopathic personality. That tells me this is a random act. Until the trial we won't know any of this. No, allowing a four year old to find her mother's body isn't a good thing but he did keep them from knowing what was going to happen.

[Sweetpumper]

No article at this point is going to have the kid's behavioral history, so no one knows. He kept the girls from knowing it was gonna happen so they wouldn't interrupt him. Especially if the workers were right there to tell.