Freaky Physics Prove Parallel Universes Exist

[TRUEYOUTRUEME]

Look past the details of a wonky discovery by a group of California scientists -- that a quantum state is now observable with the human eye -- and consider its implications: Time travel may be feasible. Doc Brown would be proud.

The strange discovery by quantum physicists at the University of California Santa Barbara means that an object you can see in front of you may exist simultaneously in a parallel universe -- a multi-state condition that has scientists theorizing that traveling through time may be much more than just the plaything of science fiction writers.

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An object that is moving and standing still at the same time? Time travel is now possible?

Wild article. Very interesting experiment! But personally I do not buy into the Parallel Universes claim at all.

[Perdition]

It blows my mind to thing that something can happen but not happen at the same time. Theoretical stuff is so interesting, to bad im not a physicist

[Virtual Particle]

Very cool

[Copasetic]

The fox news article is poorly written in my opinion and panders to the pseudoscience associated with QM.

The visible object in this case, was a wire they were able to induce superposition on.

Here's the problem though. To get these quantum states of strange things happening, it requires very small and detailed control. That is why we don't really see quantum effects in things like people or even cells, because they have too much going on.

It is still cool nonetheless.

[Copasetic]

If you haven't read that actual article its published in nature; found here

Going back to what I was saying though about conditions;

The mechanical resonator, which was made of aluminium nitride and aluminium, and the qubit, superconducting quantum interference device (SQUID) and superconducting wiring, which were made of aluminium, were fabricated on an oxidized silicon wafer using standard semiconductor processing. We diced the wafer into 6.25 mm × 6.25 mm chips and placed one chip in an aluminium mount, using wire-bonded electrical connections. We made measurements of the resonator, shown in Fig. 1, at room temperature (~293 K) using a commercial microwave network analyser, and made qubit measurements of the resonator using a custom-built dilution refrigerator. The device mount was attached to the mixing chamber of the dilution refrigerator, and the device operated in vacuum at a temperature of 25 mK.

That's 25 milliKelvin or -273.125 degrees Celsius in vacuum. For some reason I doubt Schrodinger's cat or potential time travelers will take so kindly to such environments.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Copasetic

[sepulchrave]

This was reported some time ago on this very forum by Stillwaters: Link to the post.

Secondly, the `Parallel Universe' claim is complete sensationalism.

Thirdly, the quantum state is NOT observable with the naked eye. The object that is put in the quantum state is barely visible (it is 30 microns - about a third of the thickness of human hair), but when it is in the quantum state it is obviously completely shielded (no light!) from the outside world.

Fourthly, the object isn't `moving' and `not moving' at the same time. The object is hooked up to a resonator which contains a single phonon (a vibration), that single phonon is then allowed to couple to the object. Effectively the object is `vibrating' and `not vibrating' at the same time .

(yes, I know `vibrating' is a form of `moving', I just don't want people to think that the object is both stationary and flying around the room)

Finally, this quantum state only lasted 6.1 nanoseconds.

In conclusion, this is a very interesting technical result. But it does not `prove' anything new about the Universe, and is not very surprising to people who understand quantum mechanics.

[TRUEYOUTRUEME]

The fox news article is poorly written in my opinion and panders to the pseudoscience associated with QM.

The visible object in this case, was a wire they were able to induce superposition on.

Here's the problem though. To get these quantum states of strange things happening, it requires very small and detailed control. That is why we don't really see quantum effects in things like people or even cells, because they have too much going on.

It is still cool nonetheless.

I agree that the article takes a large amount of artistic liberty in how it portrays the subject.

Of course though I do not understand why you seem hostile to the idea that the quantum state may be visilble. It is present in all of reality. It is only truely our own physical limitations involving perception that forbid us from seeing it.

Edited April 7, 2010 by TRUEYOUTRUEME

[sepulchrave]

Copasetic:

In addition, I bet the choice of aluminum superconducting wires is critical to the success of this experiment. Aluminum superconducts because of a very delicate balance between electronic and phononic states at low temperature.

Secondly, the coherence length of the Cooper-pair wavefunction in aluminum is quite large (I think it is at least several microns, but I can't find a reliable reference at the moment).

I would not be surprised if the superconducting wavefunction penetrated quite far into the 30 micron `quantum drum'.

If this is the case it wouldn't change the results, but it would limit the applicability of their findings.

[Copasetic]

I agree that the article takes a large amount of artistic liberty in how it portrays the subject.

Of course though I do not understand why you seem hostile to the idea that the quantum state may be visilble. It is present in all of reality. It is only truely our own physical limitations involving perception that forbid us from seeing it.

I'm not hostile to the idea, I pointed out something misleading about the article. As did Sepulchrave above, which he is correct.

No where do they actually claim to 'view' the wire, to do so would ruin the superposition. You guys that post on physics stuff should read more of Sepulchrave's posts.

The gist of what they are doing, is transferring the quantum state of a qubit (two states) to a resonator (the wire). Under very controlled conditions. As Sepulchrave also pointed out, that really isn't that surprising. Technologically its pretty neat, ground breaking or world changing? Hardly.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Copasetic

[Copasetic]

Copasetic:

In addition, I bet the choice of aluminum superconducting wires is critical to the success of this experiment. Aluminum superconducts because of a very delicate balance between electronic and phononic states at low temperature.

Secondly, the coherence length of the Cooper-pair wavefunction in aluminum is quite large (I think it is at least several microns, but I can't find a reliable reference at the moment).

I would not be surprised if the superconducting wavefunction penetrated quite far into the 30 micron `quantum drum'.

If this is the case it wouldn't change the results, but it would limit the applicability of their findings.

It appears it was;

From the article;

I. METHODS: MECHANICAL RESONATOR FABRICATION

Mechanical resonators were fabricated on 10 cm diameter, high-resistivity (>10 kΩ-cm)

silicon wafers with a 150 nm dry thermal SiO2 isolation layer. The lithographic steps used

to generate classically-tested mechanical resonators were as follows:

1. Base electrode metallization was defined by sputter-depositing 130 nm of Al at a rate

of ∼ 0.4 ˚A/s. This layer was optically patterned by spin-coating with photoresist

and exposing with an I-line UV stepper; after developing the resist, exposed Al was

anisotropically etched in an inductively-coupled plasma reactive ion etcher (ICP RIE)

using a 2:1 Cl2/BCl3 gas mixture (mass flow rate ratio). The photoresist was stripped

in acetone with ultrasonic agitation.

2. A 330 nm thick piezoelectric AlN film was deposited in a radiofrequency reactive

sputter system, using an Al target with a 3:10 N2:Ar gas mixture. To define vias

through the AlN to the Al base electrode, the AlN layer was lithographically patterned

and etched using two steps of ICP RIE. The first step used a pure Cl2 gas plasma that

etched through most of the exposed AlN. The second step used an 8:1 Ar/CF4 gas

mixture to remove any remaining AlN, while effectively stopping on the underlying Al

layer. The photoresist was then stripped.

3. The top electrode comprised a sputter-deposited 130 nm thick Al film. This metal layer

was lithographically patterned and etched with a 2:1 Cl2/BCl3 gas mixture using the

ICP RIE.

4. The mechanically suspended structure was defined by another layer of lithography,

etched using two steps of ICP RIE. The first step used a Cl2 plasma to etch completely

through the exposed Al/AlN/Al stack, stopping on the underlying SiO2. The second

etch used 8:1 Ar/CF4 to remove the exposed SiO2, exposing bare Si.

5. Prior to mechanical release, wafers were diced into individual chips containing one

mechanical resonator per die. Mechanical release was performed using isotropic XeF2

etching, by placing individual dies in a custom-built vacuum chamber that was flooded

with XeF2 gas, which selectively removes any exposed Si, releasing the structure.

6. Completed resonators were placed in a measurement mount, with electrical connections

made with 25 μm diameter Al wire bonds.

[Copasetic]

I agree that the article takes a large amount of artistic liberty in how it portrays the subject.

Of course though I do not understand why you seem hostile to the idea that the quantum state may be visilble. It is present in all of reality. It is only truely our own physical limitations involving perception that forbid us from seeing it.

Something I missed earlier;

That part there in boldface isn't true. As I pointed out earlier only under rigorous conditions, which generally don't exist macroscopically can we observe quantum states.

So to talk of quantum states and something like people or even something small like a cell is meaningless. There is too much going on.

Again to reiterate, for this nifty trick it required conditions of -459.62 degrees Fahrenheit and vacuum and still was not 'visible' only indirectly observable through a quantum circuit.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Copasetic

[shaka5]

An object that is moving and standing still at the same time? Time travel is now possible?

Wild article. Very interesting experiment! But personally I do not buy into the Parallel Universes claim at all.

I don't buy into it either, was always too out there for me

[pallidin]

Wow. I think you guys explain it better than the "sensationalist" article does.

Would be interesting, though, if there are further experiments.

[silentsinger]

The headline

Freaky Physics Proves Parallel Universes Exist

And then a little bit into the article

that an object you can see in front of you may exist simultaneously in a parallel universe

So it may exist in more than 1 universe, that means they arent sure, so then how can they say they proved it...

[Mattshark]

The headline

And then a little bit into the article

So it may exist in more than 1 universe, that means they arent sure, so then how can they say they proved it...

That is because you don't prove in science, you evidence. There is never a point were you consider something perfectly settled.

Copa, fantastically explained once again mate.

[Pheobus-Apollo]

This is rubbish,nothing can stand still and move at the same time,even if the scientists say so

[silentsinger]

That is because you don't prove in science, you evidence. There is never a point were you consider something perfectly settled.

Copa, fantastically explained once again mate.

Well they shouldnt use a word like "prove" then

But i guess it was just used to sensationalise it, as usual.

[Mattshark]

Well they shouldnt use a word like "prove" then

But i guess it was just used to sensationalise it, as usual.

That is media for you mate, you go through journals and you'll see very different language used.

[pallidin]

Here's the answer guys...

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=393098

[Astute One]

Our reality is possible because of our senses. Take away our senses, and our reality is nonsense.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Astute One

[TheHumanRace]

Hemm.. at one point i dont want to beleve that becouse, It would be too dificult!

Its kinda strange accualy..

its hard to beleve, at the other way..

It would be kinda awesome

[Copasetic]

Well they shouldnt use a word like "prove" then

But i guess it was just used to sensationalise it, as usual.

Matt is correct, this is a problem with people trying to verify their scientific knowledge through popular media outlets. I'm not sure what the real solution is or should be. People don't want to read scientific literature, how then can they actually verify the science?

I think we need more popularizes of science who are scientists, the world took a great loss the day Sagan and his fellows were taken from us. I think if more scientists took an active and open role in discussions with the public it would help alievate the problem. For example, if you look at periods in the US where scientific literacy was high, take like during the space race, you see scientists reaching out into public venues with open dialog. Today, most scientists aren't much concerned with what the public thinks of their research unless/until it affects grant money.

I think the reasons for this revolve around the general disinterest of the public, which in the case of something creation/evolution has turned down right hostile to scientists and narrow focus most scientists have.

This is rubbish,nothing can stand still and move at the same time,even if the scientists say so

Well that isn't the gist of it, but since this is your first post and I have that tingling sense of drive-by posting, I'm loath to elaborate further.

Welcome to the forums by the way.

[newdayrising]

There is a classic physics experiment where a series of photons or electrons are sent towards a barrier that has two narrow slits in it. If one of the slits is covered, that is in effect "taking a measurement" because you know which slit the photon or electron has to go through to get to the other side of the barrier. In that case, the photon or electron behaves like a particle. If on the other hand neither slit is covered, it is not known which slit the photon or electron passed through. In that case, the photon or electron behaves like a wave. You could also say it somehow passed through both slits at the same time. The idea that something could vibrate and not vibrate at the same time is somehow related to this experiment, but I couldn't really understand how from the article.

[sp840tril]

I asked a physicist how can something not exist until we measure it. His answer was to ask me if a tree fell and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? He said no it doesn't because only ears can turn meaningless wave patterns into sound. And he tried to compare this to my original question by saying, only eyes can turn meaningless wave patterns into something, so we in a way create reality... now I'm not buying any of this because I think that these things exist with or without us. Quantum physics has a way of misleading people into thinking miraculous things.

[Sthenno]

I really, really want to understand all of this, but my head just refuses to do it. So as all of it sounds pretty bonkers to me I can safely say that this latest piece of information seems no more or less bonkers.

Time travel should only be allowed in the hands of loveable eccentrics who want to change the world...