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Theoretical Psychology

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Posted (edited)

What was life like in the past and how did it effect Psychosis?

Prior to industrialization society still needed street sweepers. People who could function 16 hrs a day...lifetimes in those days were in the 40's. Today we have By-polar disorder and when does depression set in?? Is inadvertent selective breeding related to psychosis??

Greeks and Romans wanted soldiers who had no emotions, today we have sociopaths.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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Posted (edited)

I think this is a very interesting point. Survival of the fittest for *this* world. However, when we look at fitness, some of these newer or more commonly diagnosed disorders don't seem to be to the advantage of people or society in reality. I think you would have to show that people with whatever disorders are more successful in society on average (at least among the middle classes) in order for that theory to really pan out. As well, I think you would need to show a difference between the presence of these disorders according to the various social classes (socioeconomic backgrounds). Unless the reason for unintentional selection were related more closely related to something such as culture or entertainment, instead of merely surviving in a capitalist society.

Even after all of that, there are still other things which need to be taken into consideration, such as time in front of the tv (or microwave), diet, exercise, and everything else which could contribute to the growth or diagnosis of these issues. (Who is diagnosed, by whom, how are they tested, at which ages on average, according to social class and so forth.)

I think it would be pretty hard to sift through all of the information, as there are so many factors to consider.

Edited by icile_xele

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Posted (edited)

I was very successful with regards to applying this theoretical methodology. I feel that soon (100 years perhaps) the next psychosis will be related to greed.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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To apply? I'm not sure what you mean. Again, while we may look at likelihoods and similarities, from a scientific standpoint, tons of data would have to be collected, sifted, and calculated to lend real validity to the theory. Personally, I think we're more aligned with what's culturally proper or desirable. More than greed, I would pick vanity or envy if we're looking at the general population. I might even say insecurity. I say that probably because of the way I view greed, and the issue being who we choose and why. From my perspective, we're driven more by approval than simply having all of everything or as much as possible. How much is necessary seems to depend on social grouping. I see more attempts at ladder climbing in the name of approval and ranking than I do all out greed.

The ones who do the most attracting, on average, seem to be the ones who go farthest out of their way in the name of approval in the areas of vanity and gaining envy, often out of insecurity. That's not at all scientific (nor is it a "judgment"), just a personal observation. lol

I don't see many people working 3 jobs to hoard money. I see many people trying to keep up with the Jones, and in selecting mates aiming as high as they can socially (sometimes missing the mark with the apple of their eyes because they believe that general attractiveness or pretending to have more than they do goes over better than it actually does).

I don't say this to imply that all people who have gained some "status" did so for vain reasons, but rather that most people going after them (and others) do so for vain reasons.

We're not picking mates for their ability to work long hours or till the ground. We're not picking them based on how greedy they are.

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well, the greeks and romans didnt want that. the Greeks took what they could get originally, as they couldnt fund an Actual army, so they relied on citizens for fighting. so thats not true.

anyways, im gonna go out on a limb and say much of what we have today (emotionally) was the same 2 thousand years ago. im sure many of these disorders were still around back then. although, they may have deemed someone 'possessed', a 'witch', 'evil spirit' etc.

and greed? well, thats been around for ages, and probably will be much longer.

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Posted (edited)

There are less serial killers then there are individuals with by-polar disorder. I see that as an indicator related to changes in society.

icile_xele sorry dd not initially understand you're offer let me just say? :yes:

The Roman/Greek thing was just an example...actually most if not all cultures in those days had similar needs.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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Posted (edited)

There are less serial killers then there are individuals with by-polar disorder. I see that as an indicator related to changes in society.

icile_xele sorry dd not initially understand you're offer let me just say? :yes:

The Roman/Greek thing was just an example...actually most if not all cultures in those days had similar needs.

Any thoughts?

bad example i guess.

but, just because we have A Lot more documentation now, doesnt mean these things were less than now.

we have examples of people in antiquity being insane. commodus comes to mind, as does caligula.

Edited by Agent. Mulder

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bad example i guess.

but, just because we have A Lot more documentation now, doesnt mean these things were less than now.

we have examples of people in antiquity being insane. commodus comes to mind, as does caligula.

Agreed it was :tu: Toltec's also established and enforced an Empire as another example.

I am not suggesting that. Rather, that there seems to be a pattern within the context of society at large.

Any thoughts?

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Posted (edited)

What was life like in the past and how did it effect Psychosis?

Prior to industrialization society still needed street sweepers. People who could function 16 hrs a day...lifetimes in those days were in the 40's. Today we have By-polar disorder and when does depression set in?? Is inadvertent selective breeding related to psychosis??

Greeks and Romans wanted soldiers who had no emotions, today we have sociopaths.

Any thoughts?

I dont believe mental illnesses exist.

I think people who believe they suffer from them are weak in the head and need to learn to control their own minds.

Sociopaths are not the result of selective breeding in soliders. Its a life choice made by a frame of mind. These people need to learn to control their thought processes and let go of those bad experiences causing them to act the way they do.

Edited by Alien Being

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I dont believe mental illnesses exist.

I think people who believe they suffer from them are weak in the head and need to learn to control their own minds.

Sociopaths are not the result of selective breeding in soliders. Its a life choice made by a frame of mind. These people need to learn to control their thought processes and let go of those bad experiences causing them to act the way they do.

Progressive Brain Changes Detected in Childhood Onset Schizophrenia

Evidence of progressive abnormal brain development in schizophrenia has emerged from the first longitudinal brain imaging study ever conducted in adolescents for any illness. MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans revealed ventricles (fluid-filled cavities in the middle of the brain) enlarging between ages 14 and 16 in teens with a rare, severe, childhood onset form of the disorder, report Judith Rapoport, M.D., and colleagues of the National Institute of Mental Health, in the October issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry.

Also in this issue, NIMH's Theodore Zahn, Ph.D., Rapoport and colleagues report that the same adolescents, all of whom had experienced psychosis prior to age 12, showed autonomic nervous system abnormalities characteristic of adult schizophrenia.

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My point with the above Alien Being? Is that with current technology we have identified specific issues. Which, as the result of there commonalities? Are relatable to organic factors. Now I do know of a research effort that occurred in the early 80's? The Psychiatrist who preformed the study was very wealthy and owned a castle somewhere in Europe. He went to New York, entered some of its worst neighborhoods and identified 10 or so Schizophrenics. All of them were homeless and in really bad shape. He brought the patients to his castle which was his home and he and is wife? Essentially began treating them as they were part of there family. They all had access to butlers, maids and all

the perks of a lavish lifestyle.

The patients showed significant improvement, after about 3 years. Which, does suggest? That there may be a way to get around, so to speak, the clinical issues we have observed? But the conditions I feel would have to be ideal. Now I worked with adolescent children charged with multiple instances of murder but with no convictions. And while the facilities themselves? Were standard for a private rehab/residential facility in the United States? I was given full authority and so engaged my clients in a similar way. It to about 5 years but, we got there meds lowered and many of them showed significant improvement.

To be very clear it was not a cake walk.

Any thoughts?

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Posted (edited)

What was life like in the past and how did it effect Psychosis?

Prior to industrialization society still needed street sweepers. People who could function 16 hrs a day...lifetimes in those days were in the 40's. Today we have By-polar disorder and when does depression set in?? Is inadvertent selective breeding related to psychosis??

Greeks and Romans wanted soldiers who had no emotions, today we have sociopaths.

Any thoughts?

That is a very good topic Triad, I've wondered the same thing many times and have even gone so far as to try and convince certain colleagues to look into it.

I suspect, that the greater trend in mental disorders is two fold. First, we understand the mind better than in prior centuries. This means an increased monitoring for 'mental disorders'. Which raises the reported incidence.

I also suspect there is another part to it as well, that has to do with the slacking of natural selection and freedoms granted to us from the agricultural revolution.

For this latter idea, it seems a rather touchy subject to explore. As I'm sure you're aware there have been gross abuses of 'Darwinistic evolution' in the past and the scars of Eugenics are still not fully healed. I think because of touchy nature of the subject, it likely won't receive the prominent study it should for quite sometime.

Edited by Copasetic

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My point with the above Alien Being? Is that with current technology we have identified specific issues. Which, as the result of there commonalities? Are relatable to organic factors. Now I do know of a research effort that occurred in the early 80's? The Psychiatrist who preformed the study was very wealthy and owned a castle somewhere in Europe. He went to New York, entered some of its worst neighborhoods and identified 10 or so Schizophrenics. All of them were homeless and in really bad shape. He brought the patients to his castle which was his home and he and is wife? Essentially began treating them as they were part of there family. They all had access to butlers, maids and all

the perks of a lavish lifestyle.

The patients showed significant improvement, after about 3 years. Which, does suggest? That there may be a way to get around, so to speak, the clinical issues we have observed? But the conditions I feel would have to be ideal. Now I worked with adolescent children charged with multiple instances of murder but with no convictions. And while the facilities themselves? Were standard for a private rehab/residential facility in the United States? I was given full authority and so engaged my clients in a similar way. It to about 5 years but, we got there meds lowered and many of them showed significant improvement.

To be very clear it was not a cake walk.

Any thoughts?

To be homnest I do believe that mental illness does causes changes in the brain tissue if left untreated.

However what I am talking about is the fact that what pops up in your conscious thoughts is your choice. If you are negged out and cant get over those down thoughts you end up suffering from depression. If you have traumatic experiences and cant let go of those memories you get post traumatic stress sydrome, etc, etc.

What I am saying is the individuals suffering mental illness are those not strong enough mentally to have dealt with the trigger in the first place.

If you get your leg blown off in Afganistan you might cope pretty well. You might be the sort of person who jsut picks themselves up and gets on with life. However you might be the person who breaks mentally and ends up in the p-wing for the next 20 years. What I am saying is some people are mentally very resilent and others are very weak.

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To be homnest I do believe that mental illness does causes changes in the brain tissue if left untreated.

However what I am talking about is the fact that what pops up in your conscious thoughts is your choice. If you are negged out and cant get over those down thoughts you end up suffering from depression. If you have traumatic experiences and cant let go of those memories you get post traumatic stress sydrome, etc, etc.

What I am saying is the individuals suffering mental illness are those not strong enough mentally to have dealt with the trigger in the first place.

If you get your leg blown off in Afganistan you might cope pretty well. You might be the sort of person who jsut picks themselves up and gets on with life. However you might be the person who breaks mentally and ends up in the p-wing for the next 20 years. What I am saying is some people are mentally very resilent and others are very weak.

It sounds cold what your saying but I do agree with you

The only thing i have to add is that the body affects the mind as the mind affects the body

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I appreciate your input Copasetic and just want to mention I never really feel picked upon in this forum :yes:

Yes I agree it is a touchy subject. But if I am correct? the matter of manipulating our species? I not just the result of acts with intent. They are also the result of unconscious factors upon the societal scale. Going from wild, to somewhat civilized, would result in addressing the in-firmed from a different context.

Alien being, each of us respond to stress in different way's. It is an aspect of our individuality. Case in point? If in fact someone were confronted with the reality? Of something they thought was impossible? In the wrong way? It could result potentially, in them developing a neurosis. Psychosis, is a step up on scale, of dysfunctional coping mechanisms. With regards to examples? During my tenure at the above mentioned position and in the first five years?

My throat was almost slit, skull was almost crushed by a stone that weighed about 15 lbs, my jaw was almost broken about 7 times to name a very few incidents.

The company I worked for had been around for about 30 years. It began with the Unit I supervised...In its entire history no one had kept that position longer than me.

My clients were not Neurotic they were diagnosed with Psychotic disorders. Some of those who had proceeded me had actually died on the job. In reality? my reaction to every incident resulted in no injury to my clients and no injury to myself.

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?

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Well I wasted 7 years in undergrad and grad schoool to get my M.A. and Ph.D. when it has all been so broken down so simply :sleepy: I have no clue what Theo. Psych.,is, never came across the phrase until I just read it. One could speculate that never has sooo much been sooo misunderstood by sooo many yet articulated in such a manner as to appear to be the sole source of knowledge on the topic. Now that is T.P. :blink:

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I like the cut of your jib young man, a bit in my line of thought concerning ghosts and brains, i like the idea of human conditioning and that the single biggest factor in most peoples lives today is money, maybe in the future we will all be bankers or robbers ;)

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I like the cut of your jib young man, a bit in my line of thought concerning ghosts and brains, i like the idea of human conditioning and that the single biggest factor in most peoples lives today is money, maybe in the future we will all be bankers or robbers ;)

As far as the future? The present offers potential explanations for me. The matter of psychology from the context of a world view? Thar is the topic?

Any thoughts?

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First time I've seen the two words put together to make up, create, some form of psychology, as if we don't have enough already but I'll be curious to keep on reading what gets posted and just see how close it really related to "psychology"or just something to talk about. ;)

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Community psychology deals with the relationships of the individual to communities and the wider society. Community psychologists seek to understand the quality of life of individuals, communities, and society. Their aim is to enhance quality of life through collaborative research and action.[1].

Community psychology makes use of various perspectives within and outside of psychology to address issues of communities, the relationships within them, and people's attitudes about them. Through collaborative research and action, community psychologists (practitioners and researchers) seek to understand and to enhance quality of life for individuals, communities, and society. Community psychology takes a public health approach and focuses on prevention and early intervention as a means to solve problems in addition to treatment. Rappaport (1977) discusses the perspective of community psychology as an ecological perspective with the person-environment fit being the focus of study and action instead of attempting to change the person or the environment when an individual is seen as having a problem.[2]

Closely related disciplines include social psychology, political science, sociology, social work, and community development.[citation needed]

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Any thoughts?

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What was life like in the past and how did it effect Psychosis?

Prior to industrialization society still needed street sweepers. People who could function 16 hrs a day...lifetimes in those days were in the 40's. Today we have By-polar disorder and when does depression set in?? Is inadvertent selective breeding related to psychosis??

Greeks and Romans wanted soldiers who had no emotions, today we have sociopaths.

Any thoughts?

I am going to say something many will look down on me for and that's ok.

Depression is a normal thing, for short stints, I was depressed for a long while when I miss carried my first baby, a little girl, I was depressed when my husband died and I am the one who had to have him removed from life support.

Things happen in life.

The thing is, I had no choice. I had to get up the next day and go to work. I had to put in 40+ hours a day at work, then make sure dinner was on table, bills paid, house cleaned. Weekends were filled with family, friends, shopping, cleaning. More work.

It is good work though, I mean you get exhausted, but its a good kind of exhaustion. ANd then when you have long weekends or holidays off or vacation, you enjoy those days more because you worked hard before. SO you know how to enjoy your time off.

Emotions and disorders there today were there 2000+ yrs ago.

The thing is, people 1. did not live as long so they died off early on and you did not get as many of the extremes that come with aging. 2. You worked. LIFE was work. You wanted food? You hunted/killed it, planted, grew.. tended it.. you cut wood for fire.. you washed in the creak or the water you drug in..

You worked.. hard.. just to survive. Harder then we work now!

People were sick, but they did not have time to act on it like we do now.

My grandmother was clinically depressed. Diagnosed by three doctors, and guess what? She didnt have time to deal with it except on her days off. Weird but true. The only time we noticed something was different about her was on weekends and summers off when she was home and not doing anything but paying attention to herself.

Depression is a serious thing but work tends to push you out of things for a while because your mind is concentrating on something. I began to heal from my childs death and my husbands death when I did not have time to sit at home and focus/think on it all the time.

Today people are lazy (you know what I mean). How many of us are forced to build our own houses out of items we harvest, be it wood or stone or mud or straw? How many of us on top of that tend aniamals for food, clothing and fuel (dung) as well as fertalizer?

How many of us chop wood daily for 1. to use that day and 2. to store up for other days.

How many of us spend the entire day just to do family laundry by HAND after heating the water up in big kettles.. and then the next day ironing and folding said laundry?

We dont work as hard.. we also dont die of many illnesses people died of back then, so we live a lot longer.. and we dont work as many hours.. back then you went to bed right afte working, and woke up to work...

Now you have hours of free time for tv, computers, games.. you have long weekends more often thanks to extra holidays that they used to not have.. we get two full weeks of vaca in summer..

we just have more time on our hands.. and more thoughts to dwell on.. more on ourselves.. we almost make ourselves sick by being so focused on ourselves.

I know there are exceptions, but the more people focus on themselves.. the more likely you will make yourself sicker :P

I just spent weeks in hospital and more weeks with a drainage tube from my colon to my groin draining into a bag out side of my body.. I was in pain.. sick.. and I cried a lot and was depressed.. when the drainage needle/tube was removed my doctor said 'go to work monday, do not put it off, you arent all the way healed but I promise, you go to work and you will heal faster'.

She was right, that weekend I moaned and groaned, i hurt.. monday i got up, showered.. dressed.. made my hair up.. and put on a strong face and wimpered my way to work.. for 8 solid hours I concentrated on work.. my job.. was I in pain?Sure.. but mostly I noticed it when on breaks and lunch time..

during the times I was busy I only noticed the work I was doing.. I didnt focus on myself.. I went home EXHAUSTED.. drained.. empty.. showered, ate some soup.. kissed my kids gnight and slept a solid 8 hours..

I felt better the next day, not that much better.. but better then i did the previous weekend.. and looked forward to work to concentrate on anything but me.

My roommate is clinically depressed, her doctor refused to write her up on disability saying she needed a job that challenged her mind and forced her to think.

She was p***ed, for 5 yrs till she moved to this state.. she was able to miss a lot of work due to the depression.. and she was always upset, crying.. distant.. hard to get up.. hard to make do anything.. lack luster.. sometimes hard to get her to take her meds.. she just didint give a damn

he gave her no out, work.. or lose your job and money for meds.. she cried every moringing for two weeks... then suddenly stopped.. she smiled more.. did more.. shes still depressed.. she still has 'times' when shes really out of it.. mostly on weekends and vacations..

but at work she admits she just 'does her job' and doesnt have time for being mentally sick.. when her breaks come round, she has friends who just grab her and run with her.. going for walks outside, snacking et er..

I know many hard core illnesses thats really severe wont react positively to work.. but seriously, many things?

Pple just have to much time on their hands.. and to much thought on themselves.

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When we invented fire we also had more time on our hands...Yes things have changed.

Any thoughts?

PS:The bug is cool...I actually started to remove it from my screen :yes:

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What was life like in the past and how did it effect Psychosis?

Prior to industrialization society still needed street sweepers. People who could function 16 hrs a day...lifetimes in those days were in the 40's. Today we have By-polar disorder and when does depression set in?? Is inadvertent selective breeding related to psychosis??

Greeks and Romans wanted soldiers who had no emotions, today we have sociopaths.

Any thoughts?

A couple weeks ago I attended a lecture on crisis management and PTSD for emergency workers that I found very interesting. One topic of the lecture was mass casualty incidents. The lecturer was explaining the use of "Inoculating" emergency workers going into disaster scenes, the example was Swiss Air 111. Supposedly before the second wave of divers went in the water they watched footage coming up from the first divers in order to better prepare them for the experience and reduce the risk of PTSD and other stress reactions.

If we use this theory of exposure then could it be possible that ancient civilizations were more "hardened" mentally do to their greater exposure to death (Infant mortality, epidemics, wars). With advances in medicine the rates of mortality have greatly decreased, also with services such as Hospitals and EMS people are less likely to come into contact with death unless they choose. Ask ten people on the street if they have ever seen a person die and the majority will say no; from experience I wouldn't recommend it, what we see on TV and in movies is not that accurate.

It would be interesting to examine grief and stress reactions between developed and undeveloped groups with the same cultural background. I wonder if our easy living in the west has made us soft (psychologically) compared to the third world.

Jav

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Theoretical Psychology has long had a strong theoretical tradition, and many theoretical psychologists still work within this tradition and another impetus for theoretical psychology is the increasing fragmentation of psychology.A good theoretician should be able to contribute to the study of psychoanalytic theory as readily as to behavioral theory.

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