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Ashley-Star*Child

Why block dopamine and serotonin?

23 posts in this topic

Dopamine is a good chemical so why do medications for mental illness and depression block dopamine? Doesn't dopamine and serotonin make you happy? It just seems counter productive

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I think blocking dopamine is an effort to curb the manic phase of bipolar disorder. Though the manic phase sometimes gives us bipolar patients a rush beyond anything else, it can be as disruptive to a person's life and mind as the depressive part, though obviously in a different way. (Yes, I'm a bipolar 1 patient too.) No, the medication isn't perfect by any means, but when/if you find the right one(s) you can certainly benefit from it without too much noticeable disruption to your state of mind and sense of well-being. Or at least that's how it's worked for me.

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Well I've been on anti-depressants for 4 years now on and off, I've stopped most of them, but the dopamine blocking causes weight gain (and I was a size 000 at the time which is why I was put on it because of anorexia related depression). I've stopped them again because they also just block my memory, and thought processes. I honestly can't see any good in them

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Also, Dopamine blocking medications actually cause depression

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Posted (edited)

Many see and understand medication as something meant to heal. Like an asprin or an anti-biotic. But there is another group of medications which are given? Because it is better than doing nothing at all. Most psychotropics fall into this category.

Case in point: While working in a county psych facility in Miami? Our slowest day was Christmas. It was the biggest day for the morgue as? Instead of seeking help many people committed suicide. :(

There are usually many side effects to these group of medications. But in relation to the effects of clinical depression left unchecked?

Staying alive is the priority and if your feelings take you in that direction?

Please take your medication. :yes:

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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Well I don't have depression anymore so I don't need to take them

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Well I don't have depression anymore so I don't need to take them

Long term use of most psychotropics can result side effects who's effect can be permanent. But lets be clear here your life is more important than a feeling. I have a niece your age and I cherish every moment we have together. So again, please understand? If you are feeling like hurting yourself? Take the medication. Happy birthday by the way.

Any thoughts?

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Dopamine is a good chemical so why do medications for mental illness and depression block dopamine? Doesn't dopamine and serotonin make you happy? It just seems counter productive

Hey Ashley,

That's a good question. I think the problem is we think in absolutes about this kind of stuff, ie; Dopamine is good or Dopamine is bad. The reality is too much or too little can be "bad" for one's mental state. I'd highly advise the best person to ask these questions to is your health care provider. They are there for your health and you should feel comfortable sitting down and discussing how and why you are on certain medications.

Well I've been on anti-depressants for 4 years now on and off, I've stopped most of them, but the dopamine blocking causes weight gain (and I was a size 000 at the time which is why I was put on it because of anorexia related depression). I've stopped them again because they also just block my memory, and thought processes. I honestly can't see any good in them

If it's not too personal and you don't mind my asking, do you have BPD (border line personality disorder) as well?

Often when people present clinically with an eating disorder they are only 'treated' for the eating disorder and not the underlying causes. My sister battled for a long time with BPD and self-injury and eating disorders (as an extension of self-punishment/injury). She found lots of help in dialectical behavior therapy, which focuses on coping mechanisms that most BPD people lack.

There has been a 'stigmata' associated with diagnosing people as BPD as it was long seen (incorrectly) as something very hard to treat clinically.

If you want some more resources or some good contacts let me know and I can PM them to you.

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Folks, just take your meds and be happy. The Physician's Desk Reference, listing all the meds on the market, not to mention the DSM..which ever number they are up to. I lost mine, will show in print that the chemical in any med. does certain things, the down side is how does it do it.Take Lithim for instance, a good bi-polar drug, you find in the PDR that says it does x,y, and z when administered but don't look for HOW it does it because you won't find it.I caution my pts., as well as do other M.D. not to play physician and start looking into what drug does what and why. If you could do that, you could treat yourself and anybody else that has any type of "mental illlness". :)

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No one has actually answered the OP's question, I too have often wondered what the therapeutic benefit of blocking serotonin is. Clearly there must be a physiological reason as to why this may be beneficial if so many Doctor's prescribe these treatments, but I've never actually heard a simplified explanation of why this is.

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No one has actually answered the OP's question, I too have often wondered what the therapeutic benefit of blocking serotonin is. Clearly there must be a physiological reason as to why this may be beneficial if so many Doctor's prescribe these treatments, but I've never actually heard a simplified explanation of why this is.

You probably haven't heard a simplified explanation because most likely there isn't a simple one. Dopamine blockers are not used on depressed patients. They are an anti-psychotic and used in bi-polar treatment. MAOIs actually prevent the breakdown of neurotransmitters like Serotonin and so increase the amount in the body slightly. SSRIs are relatively new, and don't actually block production. They block the reuptake which means the serotonin actually has more time to do its thing in your body before it is reabsorbed as it's supposed to. It is my undestanding that Dopamine blockers work the same way - they don't actually block production, but reuptake.

The truth is, doctors don't know a lot about depression or other mental disorders with physiological causes. And, in cases of deeply suicidal or dangerous people, I would think the immediate importance should be placed on giving some respite from the symptoms so that the patient can live a relatively normal life. So, if something works, it works. There are still studies and, hopefully, as more is learned doctors will be able to pinpoint with greater accuracy which drug will work in which situation. Until then, it's vital that if you need help that you get it.

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Still haven't seen an understanding of the drugs, what they do it, or how they do what they do. Interesting topic but I know a few medical/drug specialists that I passed this on to and their responses ran from "what the **** is this? to out right laughter. They couldn't figure it out. :wacko:

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Posted (edited)

Dopamine is a good chemical so why do medications for mental illness and depression block dopamine? Doesn't dopamine and serotonin make you happy? It just seems counter productive

SSRIs (drugs for depression, etc.) increase the extracellular level of the neurotransmitter serotonin by inhibiting its reuptake into the presynaptic cell, increasing the level of serotonin available to bind to the postsynaptic receptor. They have varying degrees of selectivity for the other monoamine transporters, with pure SSRIs having only weak affinity for the noradrenaline and dopamine transporter. Many classes of amphetamines like Adderall, and Ritalin are also prescribed (in limited doses) to enhance the SSRI effect, since they also release dopamine.

Edited by SpiderCyde

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Posted (edited)

SSRIs (drugs for depression, etc.) increase the extracellular level of the neurotransmitter serotonin by inhibiting its reuptake into the presynaptic cell, increasing the level of serotonin available to bind to the postsynaptic receptor. They have varying degrees of selectivity for the other monoamine transporters, with pure SSRIs having only weak affinity for the noradrenaline and dopamine transporter. Many classes of amphetamines like Adderall, and Ritalin are also prescribed (in limited doses) to enhance the SSRI effect, since they also release dopamine.

I think you brought-up a good point that is likely VERY misunderstood.

The blocking of serotonin(with SSRI's) is not in it's production, rather it's reuptake(in this case)

So, though one might think that serotinin is blocked from use, that is not true. It is actually made more available by blocking the reuptake phase.

Drugs such as cocaine work by stimulating production. However, if one has a problem with reuptake, stimulating production is not the answer, rather, control of the reuptake is.

Did I get this right, Spider?

Edited by pallidin

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Keep in mind that in the case of SSRI's(Selective Serotonin Re-uptake inhibitor), the drugs goal is to stop the Serotonin from being pulled back up into the axon before it can cross the synapse and make it to the neighboring receptor; the longer the Serotonin is floating around, the great change it has to make it to its target and spread correct levels of Serotonin on down the line. without the meds, serotonin gets pulled back up into the axon before it gets a chance to make it to where it needs to go.

Here is a image to describe what is going on:

AtWork.gif

hdc_0000_0001_0_img0054.jpg

Hope it helps.

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Posted (edited)

Nice, Fluffbunny!

I also heard that illicit use of drugs to increase serotonin(or any of the key neurotransmitters) is like playing Russian roulette.

A very bad neurological effect can occur. In the street, and with regards to cocaine, it's called the "cocaine blues"

What this means is that over-stimulation of the release of neurotransmitters by use of illicit drugs can easily cause a "depletion syndrome"

In short, what this means is that using a powerful, illicit drug to "feel good" usually only increases the release of key neurotransmitter chemicals. The drug DOES NOT produce them.

Thus, what happens is eventual "depletion"

This can lead to mild-severe, temporary or clinically significant depression until renormalization occurs(day's, weeks, months) while totally absent from the illicit drug and special nutritional needs applied.

Edited by pallidin

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Posted (edited)

Nice, Fluffbunny!

I also heard that illicit use of drugs to increase serotonin(or any of the key neurotransmitters) is like playing Russian roulette.

A very bad neurological effect can occur. In the street, and with regards to cocaine, it's called the "cocaine blues"

What this means is that over-stimulation of the release of neurotransmitters by use of illicit drugs can easily cause a "depletion syndrome"

In short, what this means is that using a powerful, illicit drug to "feel good" usually only increases the release of key neurotransmitter chemicals. The drug DOES NOT produce them.

Thus, what happens is eventual "depletion"

This can lead to mild-severe, temporary or clinically significant depression until renormalization occurs(day's, weeks, months) while totally absent from the illicit drug and special nutritional needs applied.

Yep, "ecstasy" burns up a substantial portion of serotonin in one shot. A co-worker of mine died of overdose a few years back. Frequent usage can lead to chronic and severe depression, and several other horrible things as well.

Edited by SpiderCyde

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Yep, "ecstasy" burns up a substantial portion of serotonin in one shot. A co-worker of mine died of overdose a few years back. Frequent usage can lead to chronic and severe depression, and several other horrible things as well.

Perhaps in time we can educate our children or ourselves on the VERY SERIOUS dangers.

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Serotonin is the tryptamine neurotransmitter, Dopamine is the phenethylamine neurotransmitter. Drugs actually mimic these transmitters in our brains. I wonder what it would be like to extract these transmitters from our brains, and ingest them with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor.

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By the way, DMT, and 5 Meo DMT, two extremely powerful entheogens, are excreted by the pineal, why do you think they call the pineal the third eye. Also called the spirit and God molecules. Read Rick Strassman for more info. DMT is the spirit, 5 Meo DMT is the power, any Amazonian shaman will tell you the same. The jaguar, and the butterfly!

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Posted (edited)

If you would like to experience life as a slave??? Use drugs for fun :innocent:

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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Posted (edited)

Well I don't have depression anymore so I don't need to take them

Ashley, as a professional I must encourage you to continue taking your medication until you have spoken to the person who prescribed it to you. You may be cured and not need it psychologically, but biologically your brain has become dependent on the medication so you must take it away gradually. Going off meds cold turkey can have negative side-effects (I don't what those side-effects might be for you because I don't know what medicines you are taking). It must be done gradually, and your doctor can tell you how to do this depending on your medication. Please, for your health, keep taking your medicine until you speak to your doctor!

As a fellow once-depressed person, I didn't know any better and went off an anti-depressant cold turkey a few years ago. I experienced vertigo spells, nausea, and a significant loss in appetite. These symptoms persisted for two weeks. Please, don't do what I did. It will be much easier if you work with your doctor and go off gradually.

Edited by Natural Wonders

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Posted (edited)

I dont profess to know or understand these relative systems though might I add some input as I feel obliged to share an opinion. I profess to understand fundamental universal natures and call myself an observer or a point thereof, nothing more.

Our knowledge of any system is ever changing. As we unravel science systems general consensus adapts and rationalizes, and in its wake are fallacies by which we once held our realities together.

In short, it is my opinion that in the attempt to understand ones mental systems, to diagnose a system, to label it as negatory and in requirement of drug treatment is an unhelpful fallacy as we attempt to unravel psychological systems of which we are not yet fully aware.

The system seems more economical than humanly beneficial.

That is to say, to diagnose someone with depression is to condemn that person to depression, and to condemn them to buy expensive drugs to treat the propositioned problem.

My proposition; Psychological problems such as depression are extremely commonplace, and are dealt with day to day through communication.

The unlucky ones are diagnosed.

Edited by Jove

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