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karl 12

The Missing UFO Evidence Thread.

54 posts in this topic

It seems there's been quite a number of instances over the years where 'UFO evidence' (ie: reports, photographs, log books, radar information) has gone conveniently 'missing'.

Of course there could be a perfectly normal explanation for this as I'm sure things get misplaced all the time (especialy via military channels) but there does appear to be quite a few examples.

If anyone knows of any more examples then please post away. :)

Here's the first case dealing with a missing photograph of a huge unknown object over Scotland:

The missing Pitlochry UFO Photographs.

Artist Impression:

c32977e462f3.jpg

Witnesses reported seeing a large, diamond-shaped object hanging in the air next to a RAF Harrier above the A9 at Calvine, north of Pitlochry, on August 4.

The UFO is said to have hovered for about 10 minutes before zooming skywards at high speed and disappearing from view.

The apparent close encounter of the Caledonian kind was photographed by members of the public whose images appear to show a blurry, diamond-shaped craft next to a jet.

Fearing the pictures would spark significant media interest, the MoD decided to bring it to the attention of the Government...

"On this occasion, however, the MoD has been provided with six photographic negatives of an alleged UFO... and has been asked for comments almost certainly for inclusion in a forthcoming story."

The memo suggested the media should be told that "no definite conclusion had been reached regarding the large diamond-shaped object".

It has also emerged the MoD went on to commission a series of line drawings of the object the following year, noting that the "sensitivity of the material suggests very special handling".

Former MoD civil servant Nick Pope, who dealt with UFO reports, described the image as the "most impressive" ever shown to his department.

He said: "The MoD has all sorts of equipment and expertise that we used to analyse and enhance imagery to tell whether there were any signs of fakery.

"This picture was assessed by our digital experts, who concluded it was a real photograph showing a solid-structured craft which was estimated as being around 25m in diameter.

"There were no wings and no visible signs of any propulsion system.

"It was exotic and unknown in a way far beyond even the most modern stealth aircraft being trialled at that time."

Pope, who served in the MoD for 21 years until 2006, claims they were unable to come up with any firm answers about the craft and its origins.

"I remember going to a briefing with the defence intelligence staff where the photograph was discussed.

"My opposite number in defence intelligence pointed his finger to the left and said, 'It is not the Americans,' then to the right, saying, 'It is not the Soviets,' and finally, he said, 'That only leaves...' and pointed his finger directly up."

During his time with the ministry, Pope had a blown-up copy of the photograph on his office wall until it was personally taken down by his superior. He recalled: "My head of division removed it and put it in his drawer because he was convinced, wrongly in my opinion, that it showed a top secret prototype craft.

"Somewhere along the line the photo disappeared, but I have no idea whether it was genuinely misplaced or whether it was treated as something we shouldn't have seen and put through a shredder."

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It seems there's been quite a number of instances over the years where 'UFO evidence' (ie: reports, photographs, log books, radar information) has gone conveniently 'missing'.

Of course there could be a perfectly normal explanation for this as I'm sure things get misplaced all the time (especialy via military channels) but there does appear to be quite a few examples.

If anyone knows of any more examples then please post away. :)

Here's the first case dealing with a missing photograph of a huge unknown object over Scotland:

Link

Nick Pope drives me crazy

I've seen him being interviewed many times , and he continously milks the system by intimating it may be this ..or..it could be that...

http://public-domain.zorger.com/more-nonsense/cartoon-bucket-on-head-sitting-on-the-fence-undecided.gif

If he worked there for 21 years why doesn't he just say what he knows to be true and get off the fence......in my book he's an annoying distraction and should be ignored.

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Hey Bogeyman, thanks for the reply - I do have some sympathy for your opinions about Nick Pope but I still would like to see the photographs from the Pitlochry incident (nice thread about the Rod Serling film BTW).

There's an interesting letter below sent by Dr James Mcdonald to Major Quintanilla regarding a missing UFO report for the Davis-Montham case - it also makes mention of another incident in which a park ranger got his hat blown off by a UFO.

The Davis-Monthan AFB UFO Incident -1952

The case of the Missing report:

This case is a classic. The late Dr. James McDonald made a valiant attempt in get details from original witnesses after discovering that a major report, submitted to Blue Book by the “UFO Officer” (who was one of the witnesses!) at Davis-Monthan, was missing.

The following letter from Dr. McDonald dated July 14, 1966, was sent to Major Quintanilla, Blue Book head:

Dear Major Quintanilla:

Following our second unsuccessful effort to locate in the Blue Book files any record of the B-36 incident at Davis-Monthan AFB, I have asked Maj. Postalozzi to put down in a letter to me an account of such details as he can still remember with confidence..

He recalls filing a rather thick report on this B-36 case, the thickest he ever filed on a UFO. It included not only his own observations and those of the B-36 crew which he personally interrogated, but also that of an airman who was standing beside him during most of the time of his own observation...

NICAP Link

Letter:

Document One

Document Two

Document Three

Cheers.

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Missing Photograph of the object involved in the Portage County Incident:

Missing Photograph

62e88521bfa3.png

Police Chief Gerald Buchert of Mantua photographed the object from in front of his home.The Air Force told him not to release the photo, but The Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that the photo showed an object that was like two saucers put together, with a light upper saucer upside down over a dark lower saucer. The picture was only seen by a reporter and Mr. Weitzel, NICAP investigator, who was not convinced, but it was never available for analysis.

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Thread

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Posted (edited)

It seems there's been quite a number of instances over the years where 'UFO evidence' (ie: reports, photographs, log books, radar information) has gone conveniently 'missing'.

Of course there could be a perfectly normal explanation for this as I'm sure things get misplaced all the time (especialy via military channels) but there does appear to be quite a few examples.

If anyone knows of any more examples then please post away. original.gif

The Rendlesham UFO incidents are where radar data, photos, and videos, have disappeared.

Edited by skyeagle409

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The Rendlesham UFO incidents are where radar data, photos, and videos, have disappeared.

Skyeagle -good call on the Rendlesham information - Nick Pope mentions in this interview that a lot of it got taken to Germany.

It's a bit of a long read but here's some testimony about the removal of Naval log books and subsequent orders never to discuss UFO/USO incidents taken from the Unidentified Submerged Objects thread.

Brand New Log Books / Do not Discuss:

Feb 1963 Royal Navy North Atlantic Fleet:

After Tom witnessed the senior officer enter the UFO observations in the radar log book, their shift ended. Radar room personnel on the early morning watch ate breakfast and then turned in. Probably sometime between 1200 and 1300, Tom said he was awakened and ordered to report to the ward room, along with the five radar and sonar operators on his shift that morning.

The senior officer proceeded to go over the events of that morning, asking questions about the radar-sonar observations.He told the six men that their conversations were being taped and explained that until more was known about the unknown target, they were to remain silent about what they had seen. "Gentlemen," the officer said, "we will remember that we have all signed the Official Secrets Act (or words to that effect)." Although there were no threats, the implication was clear that to divulge anything to anyone concerning the tracking of the UFO would be considered a breach of security.

I asked Tom if the meeting might have been part of a general order carried out on other ships in the fleet as well in connection with the UFO incident. He responded that he didn't know if it was or not.

The witness recollected that he was in the ward room about 10 minutes. He said he never heard anything further about the unknown target.

When Preston came on duty once again at 2400 hours, he said he was surprised to discover that a "spanking new book" had replaced the radar log used the previous morning.

----

USS Reeves:

All of a sudden I lost Sonar Contact like it was never there, but CIC still had it at last bearing with an abrupt positive altitude change. The chatter was look at the size of that thing. I went outside through the sonar door on the Port Side and visually saw a large moonlike shape that flew upward over the ship at a 60 degree angle and disappeared into the sky in seconds. I heard no noise from the object when it went over us. I saw a full moon that night on the other side of the ship, but it remained fairly constant give or take a few ship rolls.

When we pulled into port a few weeks later, all records in the Bridge, CIC, and Sonar logs about that time were torn out. Whoever tore them out made one error, the pen imprint on the next page was still there. No one spoke of the incident again

----

USS Reclaimer:

The F-14 went to full afterburner right off the deck, pulling a rooster-tail7 behind it. It rattled the ship severely as it went by. This USO thing pulled easily ahead of the jet, crossed the horizon in seconds while underwater... no visible wake. It just... I mean this thing was FAST. Well, we just stood there. Wow, you know... what do ya say. We speculated about what it was. Guam told us it was a classified matter not to be reported or discussed.

----

Carrier USS Kearsarge:

The cameraman was able to get some photos, not sure how many, before they all took off almost straight up and out of sight.

The cameraman turned the film into to his superior officer and was told to not ever mention it. My dad said he and his friend were asked about the incident by their NCO and also told not to ever talk about it.

----

Sonar operator Account -British Destroyer Warship:

One of Sanderson's sources stated that no less than 13 craft recorded in their logs that their sonars had tracked this object. Allegedly, the unknown target continued to be tracked for four days as it maneuvered down to depths of 27,000 feet! (This must have been in the vicinity of the Atlantic's deepest point -- 28,374 feet below sea level -- in the Puerto Rico Trench.)

If the above story is true, nothing of known earthly origin can travel underwater at such speeds or maneuver at such depths. The fastest nuclear subs can attain 45 knots (52 miles per hour) and dive to around 3,000 feet. The bathyscaphe Trieste, with a specially constructed pressure-resistant hull, descended to a record 35,820 feet in 1960. However, it was incapable of maneuvering about.

It is unfortunate that more than 21 years elapsed before the Preston case reached the attention of a UFO investigator. We have here yet another example of government UFO secrecy at work--this time a foreign nation, Great Britain. Largely due to his apprehension over potential repercussions if he revealed his experience,Tom felt compelled to keep his knowledge of the event to himself. Since it hadn't occurred to him at the time that the radar log notes would be removed,he had only his memory to rely upon during our interviews.

----

USS John F. Kennedy

So we exited the Communications Center and went to the catwalk on the port side of the ship on the edge of the flight deck and we observed a large glowing sphere over the ship. It was hard to decide what size this thing was because there was no perspective. It was late in the evening. The sun had gone down, it was twilight, but it looked huge…

After that, I talked to a few shipmate friends that I had on the ship. One in particular worked in the radar department and he was on watch during the incident. He told me that all the radar screens were glowing- and then nothing. They couldn’t detect anything on radar. We stayed up most of the night talking about it.

We heard that the compasses were not working on the bridge and that the radar navigational system had gone offline…

A few days later the Commanding Officer and the Executive Officer came on the closed circuit television system that we had on board. It was the only way that they could address the crew of 5,000. He [the Commanding Officer] looked at the camera - and I will never forget this - and he said, "I would like to remind the crew that certain events that take place on board a major naval combative vessel are considered classified and should not be discussed with anyone without a need to know." And that was all he said.

----

USS Edenton

During one of my scans of the night sky, out of know where, four red circular lights appeared. The lights where hundreds of yards apart from each other and formed a square.

After relaying the contact information a second time, the four lights, in a flash, darted towards the horizon amazingly fast. The lower two lights in the square went first, with the top two lights following directly behind them in a curved swooshing motion and there was no sound.

Next, after a half hour had passed since the sighting, the radiation detection system (gamma roentgen meter) on the bridge started making a loud clicking sound. At first, no one seemed to know what was making this sound then a very loud bell went off notifying us as to what was going on, we were being radiated.

The captain stated not to log the instance concerning the radiation exposure and left the bridge. During the rest of my watch duty that night, no officer or enlisted person spoke of what happened, and also acted liked nothing happened.

----

Submarine repair ship 'The Volga' ,October 7, 1977.

"Were such reports made public?"

Azhazha shook his head no. "At the time, naturally, they were classified top secret. Now we have a more open attitude in this country. We are able to talk about such things. On a few rare occasions I did publish some UFO information, but I paid for it under Leonid Brezhnev.The official reaction was very harsh, very negative. My career suffered as a result, and the directorship of a scientific group was taken away from me."

----

Captain of Navy R5D aircraft,February 8,1951:

Crew members and passengers witnessed UFO emerging from the Atlantic ocean:

When we landed at Argentia (Newfoundland), we were met by intelligence officers. The types of questions they asked us were like Henry Ford asking about the Model T.

You got the feeling that they were putting words in your mouth.

It was obvious that there had been many sightings in the same area, and most of the observers did not let the cat out of the bag openly. When we arrived in the United States, we had to make a full report to Navy Intelligence..

I found out a few months later that Gander radar did track the object in excess of 1800 mph".

----

USS Waldron,1968-Near Puerto Rico:

They were tracking two bright lights, that didn't answer up to IFF – they weren't enemy, friend, foe or commercial aircraft. And were flying at speeds in excess of 400 knots and making turns at right angles. Nothing we knew of could do this but they did.

We were on an operation called Racer Run near Puerto Rico. Ship officials supposedly logged a report to Washington but we never heard anymore about it.

I've told several people about this and many acted as if I had 3 heads, but I have witnesses and evidence: there were about 20 in the 2 bridge watch sections, the combat watch sections (CIC), the ships log and the report sent to Washington.

Cheers.

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Colonel Grundmanem, former head of the Polish Air Force, explains how all of Poland's UFO reports went missing.

Poland UFO Disclosure - Col. Grundmanem say "We lost the file"

f105af03670c.jpg

The Polish disclosure, was the UFO file lost or stolen?

We post this with big smile and with an accent "Canada release the UFO files, Britan released the UFO files, Poland lost the UFO files..."

Many new facts about UFO data gathering in this unique disclosure interview with Col. Grundmanem, the former head of "Air Traffic, Air Force and Air Defense", who was responsible for gathering reports regarding UFOs.

The Polish air forces gather and analyze PRL reports on the pilots' meetings with unidentified flying objects. In the folder named "The Unknown" gathered dozens of reports. In the 1990's Invaluable data disappeared.

This is an Interview with Col. Ryszard Grundmanem. Col. Grundmanem was the former head of "Air Traffic, Air Force and Air Defense", who gathered reports regarding UFOs...

Statement from Interview:

"During the 1955 Warsaw Pact exercises, a radar station in the area of Warsaw recognized two targets over the Gulf of Gdansk. The targets were moving at a speed of 2,300 km/h at an altitude of 20 thousand meters. In those days there was no aircraft with such performance. At one point it was noticed that the two objects did a 90 degrees turn, literally on the spot with no turning radius. This maneuver at such high speeds cannot be done. Most modern aircraft are unable to do so even today, and that was 50 years ago".

Col. Grundmanem

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Colonel Grundmanem, former head of the Polish Air Force, explains how all of Poland's UFO reports went missing.

Statement from Interview:

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I bet radar tapes are missing in regards to the "Phoenix, Lights." There were lots of radar data generated during the time of the sightings, so the question is, What happened to the radar tapes for the Phoenix area?

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Posted (edited)

Skyeagle -good call on the Rendlesham information - Nick Pope mentions in this interview that a lot of it got taken to Germany.

It's a bit of a long read but here's some testimony about the removal of Naval log books and subsequent orders never to discuss UFO/USO incidents taken from the Unidentified Submerged Objects thread.

Brand New Log Books / Do not Discuss:

Christopher Columbus UFO sighting in 1492

Date: October 11, Location: Atlantic Ocean,

Summary: In 1492, Christopher Columbus and Pedro Gutierrez while on the deck of the Santa Maira, observed, "a light glimmering at a great distance." It vanished and reappeared several times during the night, moving up and down, "in sudden and passing gleams."

http://www.ufoeviden...ses/case487.htm

Edited by skyeagle409

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I bet radar tapes are missing in regards to the "Phoenix, Lights." There were lots of radar data generated during the time of the sightings, so the question is, What happened to the radar tapes for the Phoenix area?

SkyEagle, thanks for the reply -I've never heard of any radar info from the Phoenix case but that certainly is an interesting question.

As for the antics of the USAF - Stanton Friedman brings up some interesting points below about the Flatwoods Monster incident from West Virginia in 1952 and makes mentions of 'missing metal and liquid samples' which were sent to the government never to be seen again.

Cheers.

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The USAF confiscate UFO photographs - July 29th, 1952.

The Ralph Mayher UFO photographs.

88fb794535d4.gif

One of the oddest UFO cases on record is the 1952 sighting by U.S. Marine Ralph Mayher. It is odd not because of the sighting itself, which was as 'normal' as any UFO event, but because of what happened afterward to Mayher and the film he managed to take.

Ralph Mayher had heard that on the night of 28th July, 1952 a couple named Goldstein had seen a flying saucer near their home. He was an experienced movie photographer and was interested in UFOs, so he arranged to meet the Goldsteins the next day and rented a camera - he had a theory that saucers sometimes appear on consecutive nights.

At 9:30pm on the 29th of July Mayher heard a woman across the street shout that a UFO was in view. The Goldsteins and another neighbour, Herman Stern, also saw the object, which remained visible over the ocean for about three minutes. Mayher managed to shoot only some 40 frames of film because his view was obscured by trees and buildings. The object was travelling horizontally towards the witnesses then 'turned' and shot away.

Mayher had his film processed at once and, as his unit commander had no objections, released some frames to the Miami press (centre) and even recorded a radio interview.But within 48 hours, USAF investigators were on the scene and threw a security blanket over the case. Mayher was visited by a number of men with CIA credentials, who apparently told him to keep quiet about the event.

On enquiry, Mayher was also told that the USAF thought the 'pinpoints of light' too small to analyse properly but the film was never returned.

Perhaps the strangest part of the story is that while well informed UFO investigators like Major Donald Keyhoe heard nothing of the film, ace debunker Dr Donald Menzel soon became familiar with it. With surreal inventiveness, Menzel said it showed a cobweb.

Taken from the book 'The age of the UFO' - edited by Peter Brookesmith, introduction by Dr J. Allen Hyneck

NICAP Entry:

Ralph Mayher, Miami, Fla. Using 16 mm film exposed at 24 frames per second, Mr. Mayher obtained good footage of a high speed UFO. Calculations by a physicist at the University of Miami yielded the information that the object was about 27 feet in diameter and travelling about 7550 mph. Retaining a few frames for personal study, Mr. Mayher submitted the main portion of the film to the Air Force for analysis. The film was never returned and no analysis report was ever released.

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Captain Ruppelt, Chief of Project Bluebook, on how the minutes from a Pentagon meeting concerning the Fort Monmouth UFO case were later destroyed:

Pentagon meeting - minutes destroyed

64b11326021b.jpg

After the Fort Monmouth, NJ, radar sightings (which started on Sept 10, 1951), the Air Force held a meeting at the Pentagon. General Cabell presided over the meeting, and it was attended by his entire staff plus Lieutenant Cummings, Lieutenant Colonel Rosengarten, and a special representative from Republic Aircraft Corporation. The man from Republic supposedly represented a group of top U.S. industrialists and scientists who thought that there should be a lot more sensible answers coming from the Air Force regarding UFOs.

"Every word of the two-hour meeting was recorded on a wire recorder. The recording was so hot that it was later destroyed, but not before I had heard it several times......it didn't exactly follow the tone of the official Air Force releases--many of the people present at the meeting weren't as convinced that the 'hoax, hallucination, and misidentification' answer was quite as positive as the Grudge Report and subsequent press releases made out."

Captain Edward J Ruppelt - Chief of Project Bluebook.

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Missing security camera footage in the Lebanon prison UFO incident, Ohio, 1993:

Claims of cover up and intimidation of firemen involved in the Pierce Township incident, Ohio, 1991:

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Project Bluebook UFO witness names censored?

THE BLUE BOOK UNKNOWNS

In January, 1974, I visited the U.S. Air Force Archives at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, Ala., to review the files of Project Blue Book as the first step toward writing a book on the subject.

In a full week, I read all the "unexplained" cases in the original files and made extensive notes, including the names and other identifying information on all witnesses where given. The cooperation of the staff of the Archives was excellent, and no restrictions were placed on my work.

A few months later, the files were withdrawn from public view so they could be prepared for transfer to the National Archives in Washington, D.C. This process involved making a xerox copy of almost 30 file drawers of material, blacking out the names and other identifiers of all witnesses, and then microfilming the censored xerox copy. The microfilm has been available to the public at the National Archives since 1976. The original Project Blue Book files remain under lock and key at the Archives.

On almost every page of the 12,000+ case files, there are big black marks where information that could be used to cross-check Project Blue Book's controversial work has been censored.

This includes the names of witnesses to widely-publicized cases, and even names in newspaper clippings.

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Great short film about the Solway Firth photograph and missing evidence in the Woomera UFO incident.

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It seems there's been quite a number of instances over the years where 'UFO evidence' (ie: reports, photographs, log books, radar information) has gone conveniently 'missing'.

Of course there could be a perfectly normal explanation for this as I'm sure things get misplaced all the time (especialy via military channels) but there does appear to be quite a few examples.

If anyone knows of any more examples then please post away. :)

Here's the first case dealing with a missing photograph of a huge unknown object over Scotland:

Link

cheers karl :tu:

there was something about this case in the recently released files by the mod...

cbdfe8b07367.jpg

:lol:

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cheers karl :tu:

there was something about this case in the recently released files by the mod...

cbdfe8b07367.jpg

:lol:

Great post matey, wasn't aware of that one.

"Nothing of defense significance" - how many times have we heard that old chestnut? :)

Here's another intriguing statement from the British Air Ministry dealing with UFOs in British airspace.

"Here we had a number of object seen coming in across the North Sea on coastal radar. It looked like a Russian mistake. Jet aircraft were scrambled. The objects were travelling at quite impossible speeds like 4-5000 mph and then came to an abrupt halt near to one of these stations not very high up. Jet aircraft picked them up on aircraft radar. The objects then simply made rings round them."

"Inevitably this led to the sort of enquiry which you would put in hand if you had any military responsibilities. Had something gone wrong with ground radar or with aircraft radar? We experienced pilots going out of their minds? Were people having fantasies? We *had* to investigate cases of that kind. Over the years - although there were not an enormous number of such cases - there were a sufficient number to persuade me, and a number of air staff friends with whom I had to work, that something was going on, sporadically, in British airspace which we could not explain."

"But we did not particularly want to make public statements about that. Not for something that we had no explanation."

Ralph Noyes,Senior Official with British Air Ministry - retired as Under Secretary of State in 1977

link

Cheers.

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Missing footage and photographs from the 1977 Colares incident - lots still remain unreleased:

a5425cee082c.png
'During the months of September through December 1977, the Brazillian Air-Force under the command of a Captain Uyrangê Hollanda, was sent to the island of Colares to investigate a series of incidents in which over 80 people reported being attacked by beams of light from UFO's, paralyzing two of them and leaving puncture and burn marks on their skin. The investigation was codenamed "Operation Saucer". This operation collated over 15 hours of film, 500 photos, and hundreds of documents with detailed drawings and interviews with over 3000 witness'.

link

Edited by karl 12

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Wow thanks, some great stuff in this thread, most of which I've never heard about. It sure makes you wonder what they could be hiding.

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Let's see...off the top of my head, UFO records that I know to be "missing": the records of the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit, started during World War II. Tens of thousands of pages there, supposedly.

The records of Project Moon Dust and Blue Fly--at least very few have ever been declassified.

The records of Project Pounce--an effort to equip fast jets with a variety of cameras and instruments to chase UFOs.

Anything in the personal papers of the Robertson Panel scientists mentioning UFOs--I checked that myself.

Numerous records of Air Defense command/NORAD referring to UFO sightings.

The records of an incident in 1952 at Kirtland AFB when a jet opened fire on a UFO--Edward Ruppelt said those got destroyed.

Just about any records relating to the 1965 UFO crash at Kecksberg, PA, although it was known to have been discussed by LBJ and other top officials.

Many of the records from Roswell AFB relating to the 1947 incident.

The complete records of what happened at the White House, CIA and NSC after the 1952 UFO flap in Washington, DC.

The complete report on the 1976 Tehran UFO case.

Edited by TheMcGuffin

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Oh, and a 1957 film shot by a TV station in Ohio that showed a UFO dematerializing. Confiscated by CIA officers and never seen in public again.

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Great stuff :)

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fascinating thread as always karl :) thanks for sharing this ton of info!

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Thanks for all the replies and that Ohio TV footage from 1957 sounds very interesting indeedy - wonder what happened to that then. ;)

Boonyzarc has also posted a very intriguing film here involving claims of U.S. Government suppression of UFO reports in Ecuador:

See 6:10

Film describing how the U.S. Secret Services offered significant economic and career related incentives to Ecuadorian Military personnel so that information and documents pertaining to UFOs were concealed.

Cheers.

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Awesome thread, Karl.. I can't believe I just discovered it now considering how long ago you started it.

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