Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
behaviour???

Global floating ice in "constant retreat"

104 posts in this topic

The world's floating ice is in "constant retreat", showing an instability which will increase global sea levels, according to a report published in Geophysical Research Letters on Wednesday.

Floating ice had disappeared at a steady rate over the past 10 years, according to the first measurement of its kind.

"It's a large number," said Professor Andrew Shepherd of the University of Leeds, lead author of the paper, estimating the net loss of floating sea ice and ice shelves in the last decade at 7,420 cubic kilometres.

arrow3.gifRead more...

Thanks

B???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks

B???

It must be lies, there is no climate change :devil:

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's with all these articles lately that have absolutely NO merit to them? I'm surprised that some of this stuff even gets put out there.

First of all, "floating ice" is not what contributes to increases in sea levels. If all the floating ice in the world melted, the sea levels would stay the exact same as they are now. It's fairly simple to illustrate this. If you have a glass of coke with some ice cubes in it, and the ice cubes melt, does your coke level rise? No, and the reason for this is because the volume taken up by the ice as a solid equates to the volume taken up by the ice as a liquid (in fact because water expands upon freezing, it actually becomes less dense and takes up slightly MORE volume as a solid rather than as a liquid--this is why ice floats to the top of your glass, and is why ice floats in the ocean).

The ice that can cause an increase in sea level is "grounded ice". If, in the aggregate, we were to lose grounded ice, then the sea levels would rise. Also, to negate this article completely, what's ridiculous is that while yes, we are losing Arctic free floating ice, it's actually INCREASING in the Antarctic. So essentially the amount of ice has stayed the same globally.

And just to stir up the pot some more, those concepts essentially prove that Global Warming is a bunch of hippie crazed propaganda. Climatic changes are not influenced by humans, they are cyclical events that happen on a much larger scale. To think that we have anything to do with it is absolutely absurd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how many times over the past millions of years the ice has ebbed and flowed?

My issue is that we are well aware of past climate changes(to a point), and over periods of thousands of years we know that weather changes...all by itself. No help from humans. We have only been recording weather for a relatively short span of time (accurately anyway) so for any weather patterns more than 100+ years ago, or even further back thousands of years we need to look at things in nature that are effected by weather(tree rings, ice core readings), and my concern is that so much of the past weather information is built on speculation. Be it trees, sediment, ice cores, those things can not give specific answers to what was happening, but limited trends and educated guesses that are not 100% accurate (although many would like you to think that the guesses are incredibly accurate).

With all of the speculation of past weather, they are going further and guessing what is effecting weather now, and how different the current weather is compared with time past...In my opinion we dont know enough specifics to be able to say with any certainty exactly what is going on, and why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must be lies, there is no climate change :devil:

Br Cornelius

no one said there wasnt climate change.

Thanks

B???

the sea will not rise do to sea ice meltage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's with all these articles lately that have absolutely NO merit to them? I'm surprised that some of this stuff even gets put out there.

First of all, "floating ice" is not what contributes to increases in sea levels. If all the floating ice in the world melted, the sea levels would stay the exact same as they are now. It's fairly simple to illustrate this. If you have a glass of coke with some ice cubes in it, and the ice cubes melt, does your coke level rise? No, and the reason for this is because the volume taken up by the ice as a solid equates to the volume taken up by the ice as a liquid (in fact because water expands upon freezing, it actually becomes less dense and takes up slightly MORE volume as a solid rather than as a liquid--this is why ice floats to the top of your glass, and is why ice floats in the ocean).

The ice that can cause an increase in sea level is "grounded ice". If, in the aggregate, we were to lose grounded ice, then the sea levels would rise. Also, to negate this article completely, what's ridiculous is that while yes, we are losing Arctic free floating ice, it's actually INCREASING in the Antarctic. So essentially the amount of ice has stayed the same globally.

And just to stir up the pot some more, those concepts essentially prove that Global Warming is a bunch of hippie crazed propaganda. Climatic changes are not influenced by humans, they are cyclical events that happen on a much larger scale. To think that we have anything to do with it is absolutely absurd.

There are two problems with your interpretation.

The sea ice acts as a restraining berm to the the land based ice. Once the sea based Ice goes, the land based ice readily calves huge ice bergs from its exposed sides - these are what the scientists are worried about - because they are not subject to the same thermal inertia that the continental ice is. Once they calve they raise sea level.

Secondly the reason that Antarctic land ice is growing (not antarctic sea ice) is because there is more moisture laden warm air moving from the equator to the pole. Once it arrives at the mountainous interior the lapse rate forces the moisture out as snow. So warming at the tropic cause snow at the pole. ]#

The consequence of these effects is that there growns a huge unstable loosely packed ice mass with little to hold it in place. this is the concern that the scientists are expressing within the article. The whole thing is likely to rapidly break apart once the sea ice dissipates (as it is), and this is what the new ice core data is telling them has happened in the past.

So a simplistic dismissal just doesn't do justice to the scientific work been done.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are two problems with your interpretation.

The sea ice acts as a restraining berm to the the land based ice. Once the sea based Ice goes, the land based ice readily calves huge ice bergs from its exposed sides - these are what the scientists are worried about - because they are not subject to the same thermal inertia that the continental ice is. Once they calve they raise sea level.

Secondly the reason that Antarctic land ice is growing (not antarctic sea ice) is because there is more moisture laden warm air moving from the equator to the pole. Once it arrives at the mountainous interior the lapse rate forces the moisture out as snow. So warming at the tropic cause snow at the pole. ]#

The consequence of these effects is that there growns a huge unstable loosely packed ice mass with little to hold it in place. this is the concern that the scientists are expressing within the article. The whole thing is likely to rapidly break apart once the sea ice dissipates (as it is), and this is what the new ice core data is telling them has happened in the past.

So a simplistic dismissal just doesn't do justice to the scientific work been done.

Br Cornelius

sounds to me like it is working the war it is supposed to work. extra heat and mosture is removed at the poles water as snow and heat is lost throught the hole in the ozone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sounds to me like it is working the war it is supposed to work. extra heat and mosture is removed at the poles water as snow and heat is lost throught the hole in the ozone.

So why is the sea ice still melting then.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why is the sea ice still melting then.

Br Cornelius

why dont you read my post again and then tell me. by the way it has been melting for 9 years and this winter alone it was replaced within 5% of what it was 10 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why dont you read my post again and then tell me. by the way it has been melting for 9 years and this winter alone it was replaced within 5% of what it was 10 years ago.

Your reply suggests that it should be self regulating and stable - which it is not.

One year doesn't make a trend - 9 years is getting there though.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your reply suggests that it should be self regulating and stable - which it is not.

One year doesn't make a trend - 9 years is getting there though.

Br Cornelius

actually sir, most stable and self regulating systems on the earth go through 11 years cycles. that corraspond with the sun cycle. not an exact match. but the cycle is there. funny how if it had been the other way round say 1,000,000 year cycles vs 100 year recorded cycle the 100 years trumps the 1,000,000 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

actually sir, most stable and self regulating systems on the earth go through 11 years cycles. that corraspond with the sun cycle. not an exact match. but the cycle is there. funny how if it had been the other way round say 1,000,000 year cycles vs 100 year recorded cycle the 100 years trumps the 1,000,000 years.

In terms of sea ice, there has been a steady decline for at least the last 30yrs so I see no sun spot cycle there. I believe you were watching when Little Fish dragged over this a while back so lets not reinvent the wheel.

The changes we are experiencing are unprecedented based on interpretation of historic data.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

In terms of sea ice, there has been a steady decline for at least the last 30yrs so I see no sun spot cycle there.

The changes we are experiencing are unprecedented based on interpretation of historic data.

Br Cornelius

once again your only looking at part of the picture. the rest of the picture that i know of, is that there is also a 70 cycle which we are right now on the downward slide of and will be until about 2035, and another one at 100 years, i dont know where we are in that cycle. i have heard that there are other cycles as well. just dont much about them or where we are in those cycles. then the earths orbit changes on a regular basis which we seem to be in the process of doing now. plus the moons influence on the earth in increasing the earths day, that has to have an affect on temps too.

and you see this is the problem with human caused climate change. it isnt the truth, it may be part of the truth but not the whole truth or even close to it. and until we know what little changes we are making and can make without messing up the natural cycle we shouldnt do anything. because if we were able to change something without knowing the outcome. guess what we're all dead.

Edited by danielost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

once again your only looking at part of the picture. the rest of the picture that i know of, is that there is also a 70 cycle which we are right now on the downward slide of and will be until about 2035, and another one at 100 years, i dont know where we are in that cycle. i have heard that there are other cycles as well. just dont much about them or where we are in those cycles. then the earths orbit changes on a regular basis which we seem to be in the process of doing now. plus the moons influence on the earth in increasing the earths day, that has to have an affect on temps too.

Any known and recognised cyclic processes are either very long term (Milankovich cycles) or incorperated into the models to the best of the modellers abilitys. If it is a recognised cycle then the climate change we are experiencing is on top of it.

Your argument ignores the precautionary principle, if there is a high probability that our actions will cause catastrophic planetary changes then we should modify our actions in such a way as to make those outcomes highly improbable. It certainly will be a bit to late to admit that we made a mistake once that damage has been done as then there is no going back for man. Every single change needed to address climate change is will make our existence on this planet more sustainable. If we decide to wait and see our unsustainable lifestyle will have got us anyway.

None of this is admitting that climate change is not the issue, but even if it wasn't we should be taking action anyway, every single metric shows that all ecosystems on the planet are under strain to the point of collapse.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any known and recognised cyclic processes are either very long term (Milankovich cycles) or incorperated into the models to the best of the modellers abilitys. If it is a recognised cycle then the climate change we are experiencing is on top of it.

Your argument ignores the precautionary principle, if there is a high probability that our actions will cause catastrophic planetary changes then we should modify our actions in such a way as to make those outcomes highly improbable. It certainly will be a bit to late to admit that we made a mistake once that damage has been done as then there is no going back for man. Every single change needed to address climate change is will make our existence on this planet more sustainable. If we decide to wait and see our unsustainable lifestyle will have got us anyway.

None of this is admitting that climate change is not the issue, but even if it wasn't we should be taking action anyway, every single metric shows that all ecosystems on the planet are under strain to the point of collapse.

Br Cornelius

the key to my argument thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the key to my argument thank you.

Modeling into the future is the weakness of the science of climate change, but it doesn't disprove the science of the changes we are experiencing and mans contribution. I have always acknowledged that complex systems are difficult to predict - but almost any induced change would be catastrophic for such a complex society as our own.

Your do nothing and hope for the best attitude, is denial of something which you don't want to face.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Modeling into the future is the weakness of the science of climate change, but it doesn't disprove the science of the changes we are experiencing and mans contribution. I have always acknowledged that complex systems are difficult to predict - but almost any induced change would be catastrophic for such a complex society as our own.

Your do nothing and hope for the best attitude, is denial of something which you don't want to face.

Br Cornelius

And the attitude of "do something random to try and help, and waste millions in doing so" attitude isn't the right direction either. I think until we've fully pinpointed something as a direct cause to a problem, we shouldn't alter our behavior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the attitude of "do something random to try and help, and waste millions in doing so" attitude isn't the right direction either. I think until we've fully pinpointed something as a direct cause to a problem, we shouldn't alter our behavior.

We have an good understanding of the causes and we know what to do about it. The fact that we can't model the ultimate outcome is not the critical thing here, we are changing things and we can stop. This would be the best thing to do as our society is not good at handling change and so doing nothing will stress our civilisation.

The world is having difficulty accepting responsibility for our part in all this. This is classic basic psychology of a crisis or life threatening situation.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have an good understanding of the causes and we know what to do about it. The fact that we can't model the ultimate outcome is not the critical thing here, we are changing things and we can stop. This would be the best thing to do as our society is not good at handling change and so doing nothing will stress our civilisation.

The world is having difficulty accepting responsibility for our part in all this. This is classic basic psychology of a crisis or life threatening situation.

Br Cornelius

there something i agree with, not what you meant, but we can and should stop our pollution as we are able to. but right now an electric car may not have a tailpipe, but the power station that makes the electric probable does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there something i agree with, not what you meant, but we can and should stop our pollution as we are able to. but right now an electric car may not have a tailpipe, but the power station that makes the electric probable does.

The changes needed are far more radical than electric cars. Wholesale reorganisation of society to allow minimum consumption by default.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The changes needed are far more radical than electric cars. Wholesale reorganisation of society to allow minimum consumption by default.

Br Cornelius

the only way you are going to get what you and all the environmentalists want is to do away with all of the cities and replace them with towers that go up to orbit. although that would take most of the iron that we are using for other things like cities and cars and rails. you do understand even if this took place roads and rails and ships would still be needed. and, i don't see us doing this in the near future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

And just to stir up the pot some more, those concepts essentially prove that Global Warming is a bunch of hippie crazed propaganda. Climatic changes are not influenced by humans, they are cyclical events that happen on a much larger scale. To think that we have anything to do with it is absolutely absurd.

You had me right up to the end, when all of a sudden, you went to flipping your top and bottom lips with the side of your forefinger, making that gibbering-idjut lawn mower engine sound. Where'd you go, sugar?

Peace

Love

Bring all the Troops Home,

Carly Corday

Edited by Ashtarel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the only way you are going to get what you and all the environmentalists want is to do away with all of the cities and replace them with towers that go up to orbit. although that would take most of the iron that we are using for other things like cities and cars and rails. you do understand even if this took place roads and rails and ships would still be needed. and, i don't see us doing this in the near future.

I've done the math, and almost nothing works out well.

We have dug ourselves a very deep hole and then burnt the ladder we needed to get out.

There are absolutely no easy solutions to the mess we are in.

The problem is that doing nothing is worse.

Br Cornelius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This garbage is not going to stop until the next ice age!!!

The global scam artists have their backs up against the wall and as many predicted the garbage is stinking worse and worse. All they have now that many have gotten a clue is the fear factor. If this does not work then they will pass some sort of legsilation which will steal money out of our pockets.

Climate change is real folks ... not global scamming!!! They have already pushed their agenda and if it fails then many with too much money and power will lose that money and power. Greed, lies and scandal!!! This is the heart of this issue ... get a clue or lose your cents!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.