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Sakari

How do I invite evil spirits to my home?

2,436 posts in this topic

How is the evil spirit thing going?

I know the best way.

Dodgy bottle of Jack Daniels bought from a guy wearing an overcoat at a filling station. :gun:

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[/color]

Nothing wrong with people seeking advice on spiritual matters, it offers them anonymity afterall and no commitments. Not all people know what to do and can be in quite a desperate quagmire. Some may encounter liberal ministers that only further complicate and confuse the issue.

To answer the chest beating in this thread.

Really?......Unless it is a skeptic, or someone who does not believe the same as you do......Double standard bull ****.....How do you not see what you are doing to yourself ?

Can you make up your damn mind all ready?

You are the most double standard person i have ever seen.

And why will you not answer why this topic makes you so upset?......I know the answer, just want to hear a honest answer from you.

Actually, lets do this. If you have nothing to add to the discussion, how about do not post. I had all ready mentioned to you, every time you post a reply, this topic shows up as " a new un read reply ", and also moves up the list for newbies to see. Do you not realise, if you do not reply, and no one else does for a while, this topic will be buried, and harder to see?

Or, just keep acting the way you are, it will keep the topic very visible.....

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Have you visited a congregation of The Church of Satan and asked for their help?

Maybe Give it a Shot

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One final warning here before this thread is closed - enough with the obnoxious remarks, bickering and personal attacks please.

This applies to everyone.

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Why hasn't ANYONE AT ALL done that?

If ghosts, demons, possessions, goblins, or whatever are so real, why can't anybody prove it?

*snip

Are you trying to say that Sakari isn't open to the possibility? If so, I say you're mistaken. He has been practically begging people to substantiate these claims. Nobody has come through and he has tried all kinds of (frankly...) completely ridiculous nonsense in his efforts.

Sakari hasnt really tried everything though. Basically Sakari is after physical evidence of things which tend to be thought of as non physical. So he doesnt seem to be trying to attempt to communicate with spirits/angels/demons/guides/whatever.. in an environment where I believe they are more easily found. He apparently has "time constraints"(fishing and work yes?) when it comes to obe/lucid dreaming/astral travelling inorder to be in a better enviroment to explore the possiblity.

So as I think I said before, I think if you were serious you would explore using all methods and environments and not really take any sides until then.

Of course though trying to prove something/someone you may experience during a dreamlike state is not just a part of your own mind is rather tricky. The subconscious is an amazing thing.

So I and at least one other have said of guides/angels in obe/lucid dreams but he doesnt seem to wish to follow up on that yet, so he has not tried everything like you seem to believe. And I think thats important to remember.

Edited by Kazahel
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The problem here is a common one in arguments here: explain how your view is right, but you have to use my view's rules to do it.

In this case, a certain group of people are determined that the only things that are 'real' in the span of our consciousness are things that can be tested physically. All else unexplained physically is some kind of mistake or trick of a physical thing in their eyes, and gets chalked up to the mysterious brain.

While another group of people are determined that there is something more than the simply physical aspect of our consciousness. This group spans so many branching offshoots that it's hard to concisely label them any more than that, but in this case, we'll call them people who believe that physical byproducts we see in the mind can be caused by something beyond the physical. Why do they feel this way? We, as humans, have felt and thought these type of things all through our living history. It's just a part of who we are.

The problem lies in one side (in this case, the physical side) attempting to make the other validate their feelings on the subject, but must use physical 'rules' (aka scientific/empirical evidence) to validate their non-physical things. This type of back and forth can never possibly go anywhere. Yet I still see "can't be scientifically proven" as an opposing argument every single time. It just doesn't make sense. It is "I am right, and you can't prove otherwise, using my rules".

I think your mistake here is that you're assuming this discussion is about 'everything' which is touted as 'spiritual.' There is a big difference between 'spirituality' and the claims that there are evil entities which can haunt, hurt, damage, and possess people, places, and things. As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is solely about the latter. I am not questioning 'spirituality' by the way, which in my personal opinion is very real, but entails only light and love; not darkness and evil. Please notice that I'm expressing that last bit as a personal belief, and one which I don't think can be proven to anyone else's satisfaction; but you won't find me arguing or debating about this on a forum or anywhere else either.

People, places, and things are physical. They are measurable, testable, and verifiable. If a claim is made that some kind of evil entity can have a direct physical impact on these physical things, that impact should be measurable, testable, and verifiable. We have the scientific method at our disposal for this kind of thing, and it is by far the single most beneficial tool for the advancement of physical human understanding. If there is a better tool, or more a appropriate set of rules that can be used for this, what is it?

Another problem is when the opposing side is forced to give in and attempt to explain their abstract view of things, using your rules. It gets labelled malarkey, mysticism, and.. "foggy woo-woo". There is no way to get through the wall. Now you can start to see why some of the people here who are attempting to defend their views (as you and no one else here will deny are attacked) get so defensive in the discussion.

These are things I have noticed after seeing a ton of these threads go the way they do, and after awhile the side I used to see as the strong side in the debate is slowly starting to drop down in their righteosness. The other side isn't necessarily gaining any ground, but I can start to sympathize with their stance more.

I believe that what you and others may perceive as attacks against the person are actually attacks against the idea that has been placed on the table. Once someone puts their thoughts on the table, especially if they represent those thoughts as being authoritative and genuine honest-to-God factsTM, they will be examined and intensely scrutinized. Please try to understand though that it is the idea on the table which is being attacked, not the person who put it there. That is my intention when I'm involved in these kinds of discussions anyway, though I can see how people who are overly attached to their ideas can take that kind of thing personally and become defensive.

I'll just finish with the final note that we all have our demons inside. Whether you will attribute them to a physical organ going haywire, random physical events happening in lives, forces in the mind from some other state of being, or evil monsters in the clouds, you can't deny that we all have our evil spirits, and they are inside. Sakari has his share, some maybe his, some perhaps others in his group of family and friends that affect him negatively. There is no doubt that these demons exist, despite anyone's willingness to admit it. What they are, in reality, is the only question.

But in the end, he is asking for proof of something which he simply already knows exists. He is just taking an adolescent stab at other peoples interpretation of stories, thinking these physical representations can happen to him by someone waving their magic wand. Meanwhile he sits with his demons every day, and rests with them every night. Yet no one has been successful yet, in his eyes.

We;;, it hasn't been 'scientifically proven', at least.

I don't disagree with the core principle of what I think you are communicating here. People are prone to feeling and experiencing things which can be described as darkness, depression, sadness, foreboding, and helplessness. We can call them demons, but it could just as easily be the same kind of label or name that could be termed sorrow, regret, shame, anger, and other emotional and/or psychological difficulties. We all experience such things to varying degrees, but that doesn't make it a physical entity or an evil 'spiritual' entity with the power and ability to affect the physical.

So when someone puts forth the claim that this is what they are, the claim should be open for discussion, testing, and scrutiny.

Footnote, that shouldn't be necessary for those who somewhat know me around here, before I get attacked: I don't believe spooks will throw a brick at me or a demon will toss me against the wall when I use a Ouija board. But I believe there are dark forces in the mind. Where they originate I can't pretend to know. But physical just doesn't cut it for me. I am man; I will always wonder of more beyond the physical.

I think that I see where you're coming from Matt, and I personally believe that there is more to it than just the physical. Where I get hung up is when people say that there are evil entities roaming around wreaking havoc on a select few of us. I don't give that idea any weight at all because I simply don't believe that evil itself is even real, and let me explain why.

When you really boil this down to the basic extremes, you have something of substance being measured against itself with varying degrees.

Consider ignorance versus knowledge. Is ignorance an actual thing with substance? Or is it merely the absence of knowledge?

Consider darkness versus light. Is darkness a tangible thing? Or is it merely the absence of light?

I view good and evil in the same way, where evil is merely a measurement of the intensity or lack of good. Evil has no substance in and of itself. Even actions and behavior that people typically associate with evil can be defined as twisted and misguided attempts to obtain or achieve qualities or attributes which are potentially positive and beneficial when found through otherwise legitimate means.

This is my opinion and I share it as such. It is not an effort to convince or debate, but to simply provide a better understanding of where I'm coming from as an individual.

Now let's dig up the statistics on harm and deaths caused by doctor prescribed psychiatric medication side effects and complications, and see which side's tally towers over the other. 'Exorcisms vs. pills'. A priest may have given Analeise a death sentence through medical abandonment, but my doctor gave me diabetes.

Tu quoque. This is a logical fallacy, and it bears no direct relevance to the claims that there are evil entities possessing people, places, and things. I sympathize with your personal experience with your doctor, don't get me wrong, but hopefully you can see that it isn't applicable in this debate. The medical field opens itself to scrutiny in order to be validated and advanced through the scientific method. Where are the standards by which exorcists and exorcisms should be measured?

It's be such a cool thing at this point then, that both sides would drop a holier than thou mentality, as it is not cohesive to getting to the root of things.

I agree.

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Sakari hasnt really tried everything though. Basically Sakari is after physical evidence of things which tend to be thought of as non physical. So he doesnt seem to be trying to attempt to communicate with spirits/angels/demons/guides/whatever.. in an environment where I believe they are more easily found. He apparently has "time constraints"(fishing and work yes?) when it comes to obe/lucid dreaming/astral travelling inorder to be in a better enviroment to explore the possiblity.

So as I think I said before, I think if you were serious you would explore using all methods and environments and not really take any sides until then.

Of course though trying to prove something/someone you may experience during a dreamlike state is not just a part of your own mind is rather tricky. The subconscious is an amazing thing.

So I and at least one other have said of guides/angels in obe/lucid dreams but he doesnt seem to wish to follow up on that yet, so he has not tried everything like you seem to believe. And I think thats important to remember.

Very true, I am not looking into astral travel, or dream state " demons " or " ghosts ". I believe we went over this, and I had made a seperate thread for that exact thing.

Fishing is not the issue ( although more important then this ), my work and sleep are. You also know why, it had to do with staying up all night, or doing things at a designated time. That would mean missing work, etc.

All in all, above example is not something people claim as their experiences, or ways to " summon " as a majority.

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I think your mistake here is that you're assuming this discussion is about 'everything' which is touted as 'spiritual.' There is a big difference between 'spirituality' and the claims that there are evil entities which can haunt, hurt, damage, and possess people, places, and things. As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is solely about the latter. I am not questioning 'spirituality' by the way, which in my personal opinion is very real, but entails only light and love; not darkness and evil. Please notice that I'm expressing that last bit as a personal belief, and one which I don't think can be proven to anyone else's satisfaction; but you won't find me arguing or debating about this on a forum or anywhere else either.

People, places, and things are physical. They are measurable, testable, and verifiable. If a claim is made that some kind of evil entity can have a direct physical impact on these physical things, that impact should be measurable, testable, and verifiable. We have the scientific method at our disposal for this kind of thing, and it is by far the single most beneficial tool for the advancement of physical human understanding. If there is a better tool, or more a appropriate set of rules that can be used for this, what is it?

I believe that what you and others may perceive as attacks against the person are actually attacks against the idea that has been placed on the table. Once someone puts their thoughts on the table, especially if they represent those thoughts as being authoritative and genuine honest-to-God factsTM, they will be examined and intensely scrutinized. Please try to understand though that it is the idea on the table which is being attacked, not the person who put it there. That is my intention when I'm involved in these kinds of discussions anyway, though I can see how people who are overly attached to their ideas can take that kind of thing personally and become defensive.

I don't disagree with the core principle of what I think you are communicating here. People are prone to feeling and experiencing things which can be described as darkness, depression, sadness, foreboding, and helplessness. We can call them demons, but it could just as easily be the same kind of label or name that could be termed sorrow, regret, shame, anger, and other emotional and/or psychological difficulties. We all experience such things to varying degrees, but that doesn't make it a physical entity or an evil 'spiritual' entity with the power and ability to affect the physical.

So when someone puts forth the claim that this is what they are, the claim should be open for discussion, testing, and scrutiny.

I think that I see where you're coming from Matt, and I personally believe that there is more to it than just the physical. Where I get hung up is when people say that there are evil entities roaming around wreaking havoc on a select few of us. I don't give that idea any weight at all because I simply don't believe that evil itself is even real, and let me explain why.

When you really boil this down to the basic extremes, you have something of substance being measured against itself with varying degrees.

Consider ignorance versus knowledge. Is ignorance an actual thing with substance? Or is it merely the absence of knowledge?

Consider darkness versus light. Is darkness a tangible thing? Or is it merely the absence of light?

I view good and evil in the same way, where evil is merely a measurement of the intensity or lack of good. Evil has no substance in and of itself. Even actions and behavior that people typically associate with evil can be defined as twisted and misguided attempts to obtain or achieve qualities or attributes which are potentially positive and beneficial when found through otherwise legitimate means.

This is my opinion and I share it as such. It is not an effort to convince or debate, but to simply provide a better understanding of where I'm coming from as an individual.

Tu quoque. This is a logical fallacy, and it bears no direct relevance to the claims that there are evil entities possessing people, places, and things. I sympathize with your personal experience with your doctor, don't get me wrong, but hopefully you can see that it isn't applicable in this debate. The medical field opens itself to scrutiny in order to be validated and advanced through the scientific method. Where are the standards by which exorcists and exorcisms should be measured?

I agree.

brilliant response A+

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You brought up many things worthy of full response, but I'm going to bed and I have a long week ahead now that the weekend is over.

I'd like to address this part for the moment though.

I've always sympathized with fringe and unsubstantiated points of view, but that doesn't make them valid. On the same token, it doesn't make them invalid either. But the fact that they are unsubstantiated does make them unproven, and I noticed that you decided to avoid the portion of my post which tried to make that distinction.

You mentioned *rules* as well, so I'll ask you what *rules* are fair in this kind of discussion? Which *rules* will satisfy all parties?

It's an honest question. What *rules* do you honestly think will be able to govern conclusive and universal understanding/agreement regarding such matters?

Cheers.

Well, no rules. As rules can't apply to both sides. I know this can't work most of the time, though, because people can't see two ways at once.

young-woman-old-woman-illusion.gif

Tu quoque. This is a logical fallacy, and it bears no direct relevance to the claims that there are evil entities possessing people, places, and things. I sympathize with your personal experience with your doctor, don't get me wrong, but hopefully you can see that it isn't applicable in this debate. The medical field opens itself to scrutiny in order to be validated and advanced through the scientific method. Where are the standards by which exorcists and exorcisms should be measured?

No fallacy. I wasn't trying to discredit anything. You mentioned the real injustice behind this, of witch doctors and fairy tale believers denying victims 'real' medical attention, resulting in harm. But that 'real' medical attention is far from pure itself, has its own dangers, and can also be extremely dangerous. On one hand you can see a priest and have the witches burned out of you. On the other you can take a slowly debilitating pill to make the demons magically go away. I don't like either of these methods. Taking a dive inside yourself and getting to the root of the problem I feel is the best medicine. Which is why I put psychology on a pedestal above psychiatrists.

edit: witch doctors, not with doctors

Edited by _Only

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I think your mistake here is that you're assuming this discussion is about 'everything' which is touted as 'spiritual.' There is a big difference between 'spirituality' and the claims that there are evil entities which can haunt, hurt, damage, and possess people, places, and things.

No, we're talking about supposed negative spiritual entities, aka evil spirits, aka demons/ghosts/etc. Not everything spiritual. I disagree with the second sentence, as it relates to the people you disagree with in this thread.

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Anyways, even if Sakari succeeds in inviting evil spirits into his home and subsequently converted, what then?

So he has jumped ship but is he himself going to be able to verify, document, and prove his experiences to be true?

Or is he going to find himself all alone in his spiritual struggles with the only people to turn to are believers and a ministry?

But as I stated before, no one has succeeded in this before and why would Sakari be any different?

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Anyways, even if Sakari succeeds in inviting evil spirits into his home and subsequently converted, what then?

So he has jumped ship but is he himself going to be able to verify, document, and prove his experiences to be true?

Or is he going to find himself all alone in his spiritual struggles with the only people to turn to are believers and a ministry?

But as I stated before, no one has succeeded in this before and why would Sakari be any different?

Ambush,

I had all ready explained how I would document it, and who I would go to if I needed help.

I assure you, I would be asking for help here also,( or at the least, detailing the help I am getting ) and eating crow if it happened.

The discussions we have been having lately have been gone over to many times, and it is beating a dead horse.

I do not know who else has tried, nor do I care. I said I would, and will try myself.

I am asking you to drop it now, and let this sit, if any other suggestions come in, we can discuss that please.

Anything else, please feel free to discuss it in a PM with me, we have gone off track enough.....

I am in hopes this can stay civil, Saru all ready warned people about the discussion. ( not this last reply, but past and future ). I would hate to see this be closed because of one or two people, that would not be fair at all.

Thank You,

Rob ( Sakari )

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ignorance is a bliss eh! :w00t:

Dearly hope with ur energy u dont attract so much negativity .... it would be one tremendous experience and a pain in the ars too ! u have some level of belief since u are in these forums lol becareful what u manifest :unsure2:

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Very true, I am not looking into astral travel, or dream state " demons " or " ghosts ". I believe we went over this, and I had made a seperate thread for that exact thing.

Fishing is not the issue ( although more important then this ), my work and sleep are. You also know why, it had to do with staying up all night, or doing things at a designated time. That would mean missing work, etc.

All in all, above example is not something people claim as their experiences, or ways to " summon " as a majority.

I understand what you're after but I think speaking with angels for example during dreams is considered a more traditional method. Perhaps not so much now days though. I dont know much of the bible but I know they spoke with angels during dreams(or at least they thought they were).

I found this article just then from a quick google search which is kinda interesting.

http://www.dailymail...ied-angels.html

So I think many would create the angel experience from just expecting to see one(I tend to think this for obe too but I'm not sure yet)but its the infomation from the experience/angel that might mean the angel is actually a separate being. So its a matter of trying to get info you couldnt possible know(like future events for example)while speaking with them. I went lucid last night and while I was going obe(I was rolling) I thought about calling for one but the thought woke me up(and then the bloody neighbor did lol). So I'm going to try while obe because I know it works during lucid dreams.

Anyway I dont think I need to say anymore. If you get time, then try from dreamtime and experiment from there.

Edited by Kazahel

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Have you thought that there might be things in your home that repell what you're trying to attract? Such as perhaps sage, incense, crystals, windchimes, ect....

Hello thread,

I have some crystal and mineral spheres that apparently protect people from negativity and evil spells. Here are some photos:

1um1.jpg

1um2.jpg

1um3.jpg

1um4.jpg

1um5.jpg

If you find them fascinating, PM me. Just sharing.

Peace.

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Oh, I want some of those, just cuz they're pretty!

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Oh, I want some of those, just cuz they're pretty!

i much prefer them in a natural state to polished the way they are though.

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But as I stated before, no one has succeeded in this before and why would Sakari be any different?

how do you know that no one has succeeded in this before?

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how do you know that no one has succeeded in this before?

True, but for someone to succeed in providing indisputable evidence for the world forum tho?

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True, but for someone to succeed in providing indisputable evidence for the world forum tho?

the world forum? as much as i like this place, it is just a site on the internet. hardly a 'forum of reference for the world' lol

i think sakari is looking for answers just like anyone else. i don't think he has to automatically believe in what he's looking into in order to perform the things others tell him are sure to bring on demons.

i think he's been very open about it, and taken a lot of crap over it, but in the end is still willing to try anything within reason.

just because no one is recorded as having indisputable evidence doesn't mean that someone can't investigate it

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the world forum? as much as i like this place, it is just a site on the internet. hardly a 'forum of reference for the world' lol

i think sakari is looking for answers just like anyone else. i don't think he has to automatically believe in what he's looking into in order to perform the things others tell him are sure to bring on demons.

i think he's been very open about it, and taken a lot of crap over it, but in the end is still willing to try anything within reason.

just because no one is recorded as having indisputable evidence doesn't mean that someone can't investigate it

When I said world forum I was talking not about a forum on the internet... I was speaking about international recognition and world reknown.

But yes, the spirit world is full of deceptions in order to (mis)lead people into falsehoods and lies. I truly believe Sakari is not achieving anything with this thread. Moot point.

Edited by Ambush Bug
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the world forum? as much as i like this place, it is just a site on the internet. hardly a 'forum of reference for the world' lol

i think sakari is looking for answers just like anyone else. i don't think he has to automatically believe in what he's looking into in order to perform the things others tell him are sure to bring on demons.

i think he's been very open about it, and taken a lot of crap over it, but in the end is still willing to try anything within reason.

just because no one is recorded as having indisputable evidence doesn't mean that someone can't investigate it

:tu:

Hey Sakari... Whilst wandering around, I came across a site and thought of you... It's instructions on how to make a cursed or charmed object... I know it's not really spirits, but you usually seem up to taking a whack at cursed stuff too :)

http://www.occultfor...hp?f=29&t=33689

Thanks, I will take a look at it.

I think my salmon fishing pole is cursed, been the least productive year ever....

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But yes, the spirit world is full of deceptions in order to (mis)lead people into falsehoods and lies.

Speculation. You should qualify that sentence with "I believe the spirit world...."

I truly believe Sakari is not achieving anything with this thread. Moot point.

I think that he has achieved quite a bit with this thread. In over 120 pages and almost 2 years, not ONE person has been able to provide a way to conjure up an evil spirit or demon that works.

+1000 internests to you, Sakari.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1

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I think that he has achieved quite a bit with this thread. In over 120 pages and almost 2 years, not ONE person has been able to provide a way to conjure up an evil spirit or demon that works.

That's not entirely true. I've said a few times now that I believe this can be done while in dreaming states(lucid dreaming/astral travelling etc). And I have given a very simple technique on how. Simply use your voice to vibrate a name while in a lucid dream.

Here is a quick quote taken from wiki. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Astral_plane

"It is the world of the planetary spheres, crossed by the soul in its astral body on the way to being born and after death, and generally said to be populated by angels, spirits or other immaterial beings

*snip

According to occult teachings the astral plane can be visited consciously through astral projection, meditation and mantra, near death experience, lucid dreaming, or other means."

So imo if you wish to really communicate then its best to be in what is considered the right place.

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