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Sakari

How do I invite evil spirits to my home?

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We are not entitled to have beliefs. We are finite beings who are not capable of "knowing" anything with certitude. We are only entitled to opinions -- opinions we may have with more or less but never complete certainty.

We are entitled to experiences that have already happened. Let's say the first one makes you think to yourself WTF? The next one makes you think: maybe there is something to this. Then that kind of thing happens say four times a year for ten years or so, and you notice how each experience is accurate in one way or another--explaining a situation or predicting the future. So we are not just talking about the drama of the experience but accurate results. Then the dog starts to react to something you thought only you could see. Now you are back to WTF? Then an absolute non-believer buys a house in the area and gets psychically attacked, while alone, (full body apparitions included) to the point of brain damage--this undermines his impeccable credibility and ruins the rest of his life...(tragedy).He was an old exoteric philosopher who could in no way handle what he was suddenly experiencing. This goes well beyond WTF...

Notice how there is no making up of anything and all doubts were utterly destroyed over time. No belief was required and things became known, eventually.

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I would wonder about all these testimonies. Some of them my well be outright fraud, others pious fraud, others hysteria or other emotional reactions, others misunderstandings or misinterpretations, and others putting two and two together when one is apples and the other oranges.

I repeat: we are finite beings who are not capable of "knowing" anything. We are far too prone to mistake, wishful thinking, lying, to ever be believed on testimony of things that are outre. At best we take it as what the person says happened, no more.

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I might add, there is always hearsay to add to the list of reasons to doubt. You tell me all these things as pure theoreticals, not as actual events with police reports and sworn affidavits and so on, and in a context where there is no possibility to ask my own questions. It won't do.

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Pious fraud is one of the hardest things a skeptic has to deal with. This is a situation where someone invents a story or some other form of evidence in order to convince others of the truth of their beliefs.

I have never made up anything to convince others of what I believe. I have become convinced of what I "know" because of what I have experienced. I have no aim in convincing others in what I "believe". I know others have thier own experiences and their own beliefs because of their own environments. I cannot deny myself and my own truth for their benefit, or for anyone who would claim I made something up just to convince them of it. That is ubsurd in my opinion.

There is no doubt in the person's mind of the truth, and it is important to them that others also believe. Hence there comes the fraud, not seen as a fraud but seen as a tool to save the other person from their disbelief. Over time the fraud can even become a firm memory.

I think that people who cannot understand what another has gone through would attribute to their testimony as a fraud because it is outside of their realm of understanding. They think that it is because they want others to be convinced of what they believe but the truth is that they are actually testifying of what they have seen/heard/experienced. People come up with many fanciful things to deny others their truths... this is not thier fault all the time, they just don't know what else to do.

What does a skeptic do when presented with this? Is the person lying? Well, yes and no, but asserting that it is all a lie achieves nothing, and sours the milk. Compassion demands that one try to be respectful, not mocking, even though the story may be inherently ridiculous. Indirectly and carefully educating the person about the compulsive nature of belief can help.

Inherently ridiculous is in the eyes of the beholder.

Asking questions designed to bring out the absurdity or incongruity or inconsistency of the story must be done carefully Usually it is best to just bypass the story and take on the belief itself more directly, planting seeds of doubt.

We are not entitled to have beliefs. We are finite beings who are not capable of "knowing" anything with certitude. We are only entitled to opinions -- opinions we may have with more or less but never complete certainty.

Questions should be asked to bring about understanding, not to ridicule others, discretly or otherwise... As humans we do know some things, and these are based on what life has given us, but most things are a mystery.

edit: it is interesting how you wish to plant seeds of doubt to peoples experiences and memories...

Edited by SpiritWriter
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Questions should be asked to bring about understanding, not to ridicule others, discretly or otherwise... As humans we do know some things, and these are based on what life has given us, but most things are a mystery.

Good statement :)

As for the bold, I have to disagree with that. Of course, a lot of things may not have answers yet, but not most. I think as educated humans, we have a lot of things figured out, if not most.

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Good statement :)

As for the bold, I have to disagree with that. Of course, a lot of things may not have answers yet, but not most. I think as educated humans, we have a lot of things figured out, if not most.

and you are probably one of the fortunate ones that knows more than most....

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I repeat: we are finite beings who are not capable of "knowing" anything. We are far too prone to mistake, wishful thinking, lying, to ever be believed on testimony of things that are outre. At best we take it as what the person says happened, no more.

Then because people die they cannot learn? Do you see the absurdity of your statement? If you believe what you say then you know nothing, so why say anything? If you were a skeptic you would not make declarative statements about what you do not know.

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I think as educated humans, we have a lot of things figured out, if not most.

What?!

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What?!

What are you asking?

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I might add, there is always hearsay to add to the list of reasons to doubt. You tell me all these things as pure theoreticals, not as actual events with police reports and sworn affidavits and so on, and in a context where there is no possibility to ask my own questions. It won't do.

Police deal with crimes. Sworn affidavits of paranormal events? Who would bother with that or even think of doing that? Are you trying to reduce everything to strictly materialistic criteria to wrap your mind around spiritual experience? That wont do.

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I have never made up anything to convince others of what I believe. I have become convinced of what I "know" because of what I have experienced. I have no aim in convincing others in what I "believe". I know others have thier own experiences and their own beliefs because of their own environments. I cannot deny myself and my own truth for their benefit, or for anyone who would claim I made something up just to convince them of it. That is ubsurd in my opinion.

I think that people who cannot understand what another has gone through would attribute to their testimony as a fraud because it is outside of their realm of understanding. They think that it is because they want others to be convinced of what they believe but the truth is that they are actually testifying of what they have seen/heard/experienced. People come up with many fanciful things to deny others their truths... this is not thier fault all the time, they just don't know what else to do.

Inherently ridiculous is in the eyes of the beholder.

Questions should be asked to bring about understanding, not to ridicule others, discretly or otherwise... As humans we do know some things, and these are based on what life has given us, but most things are a mystery.

SpiritWriter, why did you bring this discussion to this thread?

And who are you accusing of coming up with "fanciful" things to deny others' truths? There is a systematic study on astral that has been done for centuries. Based on thousands of observed experiences. Thousands of books. There is not a single school about the astral that would agree with your "interpretation". There is nothing "fanciful" in denying your made up "experience". Moreover I did not call your "experience" a misinterpretation, remind you. I called your "experience" a made up lie based on your own contradictions, I called it: a deliberate lie in the name of religion. I called it a fraud. Is it "fanciful" if I have pointed out the obvious contradictions in your story?

"outside of their realm of understanding"??? The "understanding" phase comes only after verifying the authenticity of the narration, and you have failed in the test of authenticity.

Read your contradictions again:

http://www.unexplain...15#entry4679959

Just look at the level of contradictions in your story. The different versions of the same story for your one-time experience that you have posted in different threads have such strong inconsistencies between them. How could you contradict yourself in the most central part of your story: the attribute of the "light" itself. It is very obvious that your "story" has evolved over time. First you must have thought that mentioning "golden" color for the light would seem royal or whatever so you mentioned the color as golden, then you must have thought that "white" would seem purer or more divine or whatever so in the next version of the same story you changed the color to white. Such profound contradictions can never occur by mistake, because you had the importance of the color of the light in your mind as you started that thread with the title mentioning the white color itself, there is no way such a contradiction could have occurred by mistake. Then you pretend to have blocked me just to avoid answering me or others about your contradictions? Not to mention how you asked your friends via PM to post patronizing comments against me and to post deliberate misleading information about "cosmic consciousness" just to support your made up lie.

I agree that questions should not be asked to ridicule, but to know the credibility of the person making any such claims, questions need to be asked to uncover the fraud, if there is any. This is a valid method of scrutiny especially on forums like these. SpiritWriter, if you don't like to be asked questions about your "experiences" or want to allow only selective participation in the discussion then use private messenger or blogs instead of posting in the public forums.

Edited by XingWi

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A reminder to all that the topic is "How Do I Invite Spirits Into My Home". Please stay on the topic in THIS thread and refrain from discussions on items already covered in other threads.

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Sakari, I think that your trials can prove/disprove to yourself the efficacy of any particular suggested ritual for summoning spirits. And it will only prove if something/nothing is happening but if something manifests then whether the "manifestation" itself is a real being or not, there is no way to know that for sure because you will always have a way to explain it away with a "rational" explanation. This about proving something to yourself but when it comes to presenting your trials as evidence I still think that the suggestion that I gave you earlier is the ONLY way to do it. No offense :) I'm being completely neutral in this case.

As for proving/disproving the existence of spirits itself, with a proof that is incontrovertible, it is not possible to do it either way, at least not for now.

Another thing I have observed in this thread is that different persons are using the word "mind" differently yet each seems to think that others are using it to mean the same thing.

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Yes , I am serious....How do I invite evil spirits to my home?.....Or nice ones , does not really matter......

I will do whatever anyone posts that is not to far out there....

Why?

Because I do not believe they exist..

Well, you said it yourself. The first thing to do is to get your evil or nice spirits into your home is obviously, that you have to start believing in them.

This whole spirits/gods/ghosts or Elvis for that matter thing is like placebo medicine. It works wonderfully, but only for the believers, not for us skeptics.

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Yes , I am serious....How do I invite evil spirits to my home?.....Or nice ones , does not really matter......

I will do whatever anyone posts that is not to far out there....

Why?

Because I do not believe they exist....I have used the Ouiji board numerous times , begging the devil himself to say hello....Notta

Years and years ago , and on here , I asked in my other home for any spirit/demon , etc to come stay at my house , feel at home , show some kahunas.....Notta

So , really , I see a Topic on how to get rid of spirits , I want to know how to get them here in my home.....

" Please evil and non evil spirits a like , please come to my home in Oregon , we have 2 empty rooms , and I do not think I will get any takers"....

I doubt that will work either.....

Anyway....Show me the way , and I will roll digital video footage when they show themselves :)

Any luck yet Sakari? I think I know the answer!

This was one of the first threads I saw when I joined but I can't say I've followed it :w00t:

Anyway, just thought I'd check in at page 136 to see what's up. I'm sure you'd have some amazing orb footage by now if your cameras are still rolling :clap:

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Any luck yet Sakari? I think I know the answer!

This was one of the first threads I saw when I joined but I can't say I've followed it :w00t:

Anyway, just thought I'd check in at page 136 to see what's up. I'm sure you'd have some amazing orb footage by now if your cameras are still rolling :clap:

Nothing.....I am trying to believe so I can get em'

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Nothing.....I am trying to believe so I can get em'

Well, Sakari, these spirits are intelligent, and their weapons are deception, doubt, and scepticism. When hearts and minds are taken captive by these deceptions, when there is doubt, when there is scepticism, they are winning.

The sceptics always patter on about the fact, why ain't demons thrashing homes and killing people. Well, that is about as subtle as a freight train. If demons caused an epidemic of thrashed homes and killing people, THEN everyone would be thinking, geez I think we need a mass of ministers, prayer, and exorcisms.

We dealing with a level of malevolence that can't be provoked into stupidity. Also doesn't mean people haven't had terrifying experiences and have their whole lives held in bondage to demonic oppression that led to their drug addictions, suicidal thoughts, loss of employment and money and other personal losses due to their miserable sexual addictions that no matter how hard they try and pray can't break free from, not to mention other self destructive behaviors. They're thoughts and hearts will never be pure and joy-filled, all they have is gloom and exercises in futility. Life is a rolling uphill battle.

And say you do succeed in inviting a demon, whose to say in ten or fifteen years from now, you've lost your wife, your home, and maybe your living out on the street with dirty dingy clothes and stringy matted hair having the same arguments every day with Harold the cat because you've gone beyond dementia into insanity (because of the personal costs of such an experience). Mind you, I am not saying mentally disabled street persons are demonically oppressed by any means at all. Just painting a scenario.

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Like I keep saying, I guess you have it all right and everybody who does experience something are either liars or mentally ill. Right? Not many options... I do wonder what would happen if somebody who had experienced something were to undertake a lie detector test and have a psychological evaluation and shock horror... they're not a liar nor are they mentally unstable. Where does that leave us then, skeptics? Something unconscious? Yes, I think so. Some of you will jump on any conclusion you can without considering that you just might be wrong. I think some believers are a lot more rational than some of the skeptics.

You're not a real investigator, Sakari. You've already drawn your conclusions before you even begun. You're not genuinely interested in perusing the unknown. You enjoy ridiculing people, that's just the way I read your responses.

You will NEVER get answers (nor evidence) that satisfy you on this forum so why do you keep this thread going? For all these years in fact? Because, it's my view, you enjoy feeling intellectually superior over others and making them and their experiences feel small and insignificant, just because you and the little bubble you live in can't relate. I told you what to do if you really wanted to find evidence and I honestly don't think you have done it, nor will you. It would require far too much effort.

Edited by The Skater Boy

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Skater Boy, it's easy to see Sakari in that light in this topic. I wanted to say that to him too, but I thought there might be more than that, he seemed sincere too (though I'm bad at saying who's truly deceptive, can smell the obvious just-taunters etc though). After taking a glance at his birthchart it became pretty evident.. I thought to myself "if you get this guy to experience something paranormal or out-of-bounds, you can do that to anyone". Because his birthchart says so clearly that he's a practical man to the bone. Practical in the sense of being opposite to "sensitive to supernatural". More Taurus in his birthchart than anyone else's I seen so far, absense of water signs, just Neptune in Scorpio being the only thing that'd support the kind of approach we have. So if Seeker or anyone else "successes" with Sakari, you know they're worth their coin. edit: and that Sakari has really done all he can if he successes, I'd say 150% effort from him if he does. Not that it'd seem impossible for him from the birthchart point of view, just saying.

Edited by Mikko-kun

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Like I keep saying, I guess you have it all right and everybody who does experience something are either liars or mentally ill. Right? Not many options... I do wonder what would happen if somebody who had experienced something were to undertake a lie detector test and have a psychological evaluation and shock horror... they're not a liar nor are they mentally unstable. Where does that leave us then, skeptics? Something unconscious? Yes, I think so. Some of you will jump on any conclusion you can without considering that you just might be wrong. I think some believers are a lot more rational than some of the skeptics.

You're not a real investigator, Sakari. You've already drawn your conclusions before you even begun. You're not genuinely interested in perusing the unknown. You enjoy ridiculing people, that's just the way I read your responses.

You will NEVER get answers (nor evidence) that satisfy you on this forum so why do you keep this thread going? For all these years in fact? Because, it's my view, you enjoy feeling intellectually superior over others and making them and their experiences feel small and insignificant, just because you and the little bubble you live in can't relate. I told you what to do if you really wanted to find evidence and I honestly don't think you have done it, nor will you. It would require far too much effort.

A few things...

1. I do not keep this thread going, people replying to it do.

2. I am genuinely interested in perusing the unknown.

3. :" You enjoy ridiculing people, that's just the way I read your responses. " That is your opinion, and I can say the way you are reading them, is not the intent at all.

4. " Because, it's my view, you enjoy feeling intellectually superior over others and making them and their experiences feel small and insignificant, just because you and the little bubble you live in can't relate." Again, your view is wrong. I do not know who I am " intellectually superior " to at all. So, with that said, I do not enjoy anything like that. If I did, I would post how I have super powers, or how I can talk to ghosts, or see the future. Then, I would fit that description well. I am far from living in a bubble. ( although I wish I did )

5. I have experienced things, and they are posted on this very site. " sightings from skeptics ".

Skater Boy, it's easy to see Sakari in that light in this topic. I wanted to say that to him too, but I thought there might be more than that, he seemed sincere too (though I'm bad at saying who's truly deceptive, can smell the obvious just-taunters etc though). After taking a glance at his birthchart it became pretty evident.. I thought to myself "if you get this guy to experience something paranormal or out-of-bounds, you can do that to anyone". Because his birthchart says so clearly that he's a practical man to the bone. Practical in the sense of being opposite to "sensitive to supernatural". More Taurus in his birthchart than anyone else's I seen so far, absense of water signs, just Neptune in Scorpio being the only thing that'd support the kind of approach we have. So if Seeker or anyone else "successes" with Sakari, you know they're worth their coin. edit: and that Sakari has really done all he can if he successes, I'd say 150% effort from him if he does. Not that it'd seem impossible for him from the birthchart point of view, just saying.

Thanks Mikko. :tu:

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Yes , I am serious....How do I invite evil spirits to my home?.....Or nice ones , does not really matter......

I will do whatever anyone posts that is not to far out there....

Why?

Because I do not believe they exist....I have used the Ouiji board numerous times , begging the devil himself to say hello....Notta

Years and years ago , and on here , I asked in my other home for any spirit/demon , etc to come stay at my house , feel at home , show some kahunas.....Notta

So , really , I see a Topic on how to get rid of spirits , I want to know how to get them here in my home.....

" Please evil and non evil spirits a like , please come to my home in Oregon , we have 2 empty rooms , and I do not think I will get any takers"....

I doubt that will work either.....

Anyway....Show me the way , and I will roll digital video footage when they show themselves :)

"Evil spirits" aren't even slightly evil, they're just epically misunderstood.

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"Evil spirits" aren't even slightly evil, they're just epically misunderstood.

People don't read a few pages and realized other people said that already.

Either way, your words just gibberish because there is no valid explanation.

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Brian, has anyone ever told you you're a very polite and pleasant person online? You really know how to ask people nicely to explain themselves do you?

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Brian, has anyone ever told you you're a very polite and pleasant person online? You really know how to ask people nicely to explain themselves do you?

Thanks, I like your avatar, it's very blue and reminds me of smurfs!

I know you are trying to be sarcasic with your comment, I have been an active reader on the paranormal section for over five years, i am not here to win "The Super Duper Nice Polite Guy Of the Year Award", since 1) it does not exsist here and 2) there is no cash prize.

I also do not need to feel to sugar coat topics, if you don't notice i mostly ignore the threads of peoples stories since I wasn't there, i don't know the people and there is no way to legitimize their claims. There are exceptions where they make claims (I caught it on video/photo but can't figure out to upload it) and after a few questions the person comes clean or just vanishes or just never push that discussion.

I also learned that talking to nicely to the ones who claim to have supers powers do not make them show me, except telling me more stories (thinking i am some one who is gullible), i could read more believable stories from deviantart.com's fan based stories.

There are threads that i have helped explain how their photos exist and then you get others who try to trick people (like this guy who claimed his client sent him a photo and i just used google images and found out it was posted by some one completely different and also on a completely different time) where i hold no bars to.

My advice to you, put me on ignore or don't read my posts.

Offtopic, what ever happen to that guy sakari with that cell picture of that women taking a photo of her son with a ghost app picture in it?

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Nah, I'm gonna keep reading your posts. Just thought you were a lot better guy than what you play yourself out to be here in this topic at least. I like it when you dont sugar-coat things, critical views are often underappreciated, you must've noticed that. :D I like reading those stories, it's like reading good books sometimes, and it's better because they could be true. I'm someone gullible so I think that just adds to the entertairnment value.. but I figured there's no harm in holding the possibility because it's not gonna change my worldview whether it's true or not. They're just experiences of other people at most anyhow. What you experience yourself is more weighting in my scale, I think that's how it should be whether you're a believer or not. But just 2 cents, that.

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