Jersey Devil: Horrific fantasy or genetic

[Still Waters]

It prowls desolate, forested parts of southern New Jersey, killing livestock, leaving behind odd footprints and filling the night air with chilling sounds.

At least that's how legend and folklore describe the creature known as the Jersey Devil. (Not to be confused, by the way, with the New Jersey Devils, the professional hockey franchise named after the legendary creature.)

At the Paranormal Museum in Asbury Park, N.J., a recently opened exhibit features a variety of artifacts, including reproductions of a Jersey Devil skull, drawings and relics.

Museum owner Kathy Kelly says the story most associated with the Jersey Devil involved a woman who, in the 1700s, prayed for her 13th child to be born a devil. "Shortly after the child was born," says Kelly, "he transformed into a creature that was twice the size of a full-grown man, with cloven feet, wings and talons for hands, and he killed the midwife and then flew off into the Pinelands, where he has terrorized people ever since," according to the story.

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[Mr.United_Nations]

i say both

[Black Hound]

Neither.Though I have no idea what it is, I doubt any real creature existing as "urban legends" tend to prove out to be.

[SolarPlexus]

Any "repeatable phenomenon" must have a basis in reality no?

[xOhaguro]

I'm not really into the Jersey Devil mystery. I dunno, it just doesn't add up for me. I suppose the same could be said about a lot of other urban legends, but I get the vibe that people would go out and do these things just to keep the myth alive.

[Scholastica]

That would be a pretty hardy family of mutant deer if that theory is to be believed. 300 years of succesful breeding.

[Great Big Sea]

Interesting idea. Although I hardly doubt that I would go to that museum, a museum about a myth.

[Black Hound]

When the number of believers in this legend reaches 100, somebody come and let me know because I want to meet you and hear the arguments for the critter beling alive.

[theQ]

LOL...humans love to create god's and monsters....whether real or imagined. You all created another "god" in recent memory...it was the O'bama god wasn't it?

[Agent. Mulder]

Any "repeatable phenomenon" must have a basis in reality no?

no. not when its subjective experiences though.

[Rhomphaia]

no. not when its subjective experiences though.

Actually, this is wrong. Any repeated phenomenon must have a basis in reality. However, when that phenomenon consists of subjective experiences, it considerably widens the gap between 'phenomenon' and 'reality'. Currently, the reality of the Jersey Devil is so far removed from the phenomenon, that it is actually more likely that everyone who thinks they witness something was just hallucinating.

[Agent. Mulder]

Actually, this is wrong. Any repeated phenomenon must have a basis in reality. However, when that phenomenon consists of subjective experiences, it considerably widens the gap between 'phenomenon' and 'reality'. Currently, the reality of the Jersey Devil is so far removed from the phenomenon, that it is actually more likely that everyone who thinks they witness something was just hallucinating.

define, basis in reality, then we may find out why we disagree.

[Rhomphaia]

define, basis in reality, then we may find out why we disagree.

Well, in short, anything that happens must have a basis in the real world. It's just the way things work.

Let's take the subject of the thread as an example. A phenomenon is occurring. People are reporting seeing something, or hearing something, or whatever. This cannot be disputed. The reports are there. Something (or several different somethings) prompted these people to make their reports. The reports didn't just suddenly appear out of thin air.

The basis of these reports can range from there actually being a Jersey Devil creature (yeah, right) to more mundane explanations such as falsified reports, hallucinations, jittery minds and mistaken identity.

The simple fact that the reports are coming in means something is happening in the Pine Barrens. However, it is still up for debate as to what that something is, though all the evidence points to some rather mundane, boring explanations.

[Agent. Mulder]

Well, in short, anything that happens must have a basis in the real world. It's just the way things work.

Let's take the subject of the thread as an example. A phenomenon is occurring. People are reporting seeing something, or hearing something, or whatever. This cannot be disputed. The reports are there. Something (or several different somethings) prompted these people to make their reports. The reports didn't just suddenly appear out of thin air.

The basis of these reports can range from there actually being a Jersey Devil creature (yeah, right) to more mundane explanations such as falsified reports, hallucinations, jittery minds and mistaken identity.

The simple fact that the reports are coming in means something is happening in the Pine Barrens. However, it is still up for debate as to what that something is, though all the evidence points to some rather mundane, boring explanations.

personally, i really disagree.

look at religion, many people claim their god is talking to them, but it has no basis in reality. no evidence of those gods.

so, just because something is "happening", doesnt mean its real.

[Rhomphaia]

personally, i really disagree.

look at religion, many people claim their god is talking to them, but it has no basis in reality. no evidence of those gods.

so, just because something is "happening", doesnt mean its real.

You are entirely missing what I am saying.

You seem to think I am saying that just because there are reports, that there is a monster out there. That's not it at all. What I am saying is that there are reports and that there is a reason(s) for those reports, which may be far removed from the Jersey Devil, but the reasons for those reports are very real, whatever is behind them.

And again, you are wrong in your example and let me use that to prove my point. People claim that their god talks to them. There is basis for reality in this that are entirely unconnected with divinity. One, the person is lying (probably for financial gain) or two, they are delusional. It is far removed from any actual divine influence, but there is a basis in reality nonetheless. The same is happening in the case of the Jersey Devil. The multitude of reports do show that there is a repeated phenomenon occurring, however, this does not mean that the basis of these reports is an actual monster. Only that people think they are witnessing one, for whatever reason that may be.

[Agent. Mulder]

You are entirely missing what I am saying.

You seem to think I am saying that just because there are reports, that there is a monster out there. That's not it at all. What I am saying is that there are reports and that there is a reason(s) for those reports, which may be far removed from the Jersey Devil, but the reasons for those reports are very real, whatever is behind them.

And again, you are wrong in your example and let me use that to prove my point. People claim that their god talks to them. There is basis for reality in this that are entirely unconnected with divinity. One, the person is lying (probably for financial gain) or two, they are delusional. It is far removed from any actual divine influence, but there is a basis in reality nonetheless. The same is happening in the case of the Jersey Devil. The multitude of reports do show that there is a repeated phenomenon occurring, however, this does not mean that the basis of these reports is an actual monster. Only that people think they are witnessing one, for whatever reason that may be.

umm, calm down. im not wrong because your oprinion is different, and incorrect.

again, reports (w/e their reason) doesnt give it a basis in reality. as i proved with my other post.

but, i guess youre just arguing that, because these people are Real, and Claim they saw/heard something, it gives it basis in reality. because the person is real.

which isnt news to anyone i guess.

[Rhomphaia]

umm, calm down. im not wrong because your oprinion is different, and incorrect.

Sorry, there is no debating with people like you. Just because someone has a different take on a situation, which you seem to be too stupid to understand, does not make it wrong.

Either you are willfully misunderstanding what I am saying or are just a dolt, so let me put it in terms that are by no means uncertain:

The fact that reports exist means that people ARE witnessing SOMETHING. This is the basis in reality. However, this DOES NOT mean that what they are witnessing is the Jersey Devil.

Is that clear enough for you or are you going to spout off about how I am wrong just to prop up your ego?

[Drago]

Mulder, as far as I can tell, Rhomphaia's argument is basically, "People are seeing SOMETHING, and that something spawned a legend, so the legend itself has some basis in reality - we just don't know what that basis is, and could be anything."

[Agent. Mulder]

Sorry, there is no debating with people like you. Just because someone has a different take on a situation, which you seem to be too stupid to understand, does not make it wrong.

Either you are willfully misunderstanding what I am saying or are just a dolt, so let me put it in terms that are by no means uncertain:

The fact that reports exist means that people ARE witnessing SOMETHING. This is the basis in reality. However, this DOES NOT mean that what they are witnessing is the Jersey Devil.

Is that clear enough for you or are you going to spout off about how I am wrong just to prop up your ego?

right, thats what i said. all your arguing then is the Obvious. Real people, are claiming to SEE something. so, i guess that makes it based in 'reality'. as i already stated. which, is not even up for debate. this isnt news to us.

but, as stated, people appear to see 'a god', so that means those have a basis in reality too, according to you. just the fact that theyre real people claiming to 'see' something.

and, i apologize, cause i dont do this much at all, but im going to have to report your post. for trying (yes, only trying) to insult me.

we dont accept that on this forum. thought youd know that.

[Agent. Mulder]

Mulder, as far as I can tell, Rhomphaia's argument is basically, "People are seeing SOMETHING, and that something spawned a legend, so the legend itself has some basis in reality - we just don't know what that basis is, and could be anything."

i know, but what im saying is, that people see A Lot of things (as i have already stated), and i dont believe that gives it any basis in reality. aside from the fact, Real poeple claim to see something Real (to them. very subjective).

[Rhomphaia]

i know, but what im saying is, that people see A Lot of things (as i have already stated), and i dont believe that gives it any basis in reality. aside from the fact, Real poeple claim to see something Real (to them. very subjective).

It doesn't give the legend basis in reality, but the sightings themselves are based in reality. Depending on the credibility of the sightings, these provide a basis for investigation to determine the reality of the legend.

[Rhomphaia]

right, thats what i said. all your arguing then is the Obvious. Real people, are claiming to SEE something. so, i guess that makes it based in 'reality'. as i already stated. which, is not even up for debate. this isnt news to us.

but, as stated, people appear to see 'a god', so that means those have a basis in reality too, according to you. just the fact that theyre real people claiming to 'see' something.

and, i apologize, cause i dont do this much at all, but im going to have to report your post. for trying (yes, only trying) to insult me.

we dont accept that on this forum. thought youd know that.

Aww, someone's feelings are hurt because they can't seem to see another point of view.

Look, you kept beating it into the dirt that I am wrong, but never quantified why. Therefore I was forced to conclude that you had no good reason for thinking I was wrong other than that I didn't agree with you. The purpose of my 'insults' was to basically slap you in the face to get you to step back and realize how stupid you were being.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Rhomphaia

[Alchera]

I would say that repeated occurances have a *basis* in reality - *basis*. If this basis is simply human brains malfunctioning or hallucinating then that must be the basis. This is why many of these cases are interesting psychologically, as in the case of sleep paralysis.

[Rhomphaia]

I would say that repeated occurances have a *basis* in reality - *basis*. If this basis is simply human brains malfunctioning or hallucinating then that must be the basis. This is why many of these cases are interesting psychologically, as in the case of sleep paralysis.

That is exactly what I am saying. Take SP as a perfect example. Alien abductions were reported very often and repeatedly. There was something to it, most definitely. However, upon investigation, it was shown to be another phenomenon that was known, but thought to actually be pretty rare.

[Agent. Mulder]

Aww, someone's feelings are hurt because they can't seem to see another point of view.

Look, you kept beating it into the dirt that I am wrong, but never quantified why. Therefore I was forced to conclude that you had no good reason for thinking I was wrong other than that I didn't agree with you. The purpose of my 'insults' was to basically slap you in the face to get you to step back and realize how stupid you were being.

i do apologize your feelings got hurt, as, thats the only reason some insults someone else. because they took something emotionally.

but, just calm down, and dont get worked up about this (even though youre still upset it seems, as youre still insutling )

and, i showed why numerous times. if you dont wish to read why, thats not my problem.