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The Puzzler

Pyramid Texts for Astral Travel

255 posts in this topic

This is not based in anything sci-fi or Sitchin-like, it is based in what seems like an obvious answer (to me).

The Great Pyramid was built to be able to be a vehicle for the body to astral travel or astral project, that is have an out of body exprience (OOBE) that took one to the stars and Heavens for a journey and back again.

If anyone is interested I'll add some links and other info on why I think this is the most logical answer for the Pyramid Texts and their use.

Here is a small link to a part that seems to indicate the Pharoah was not dead when he used the texts, he was very much alive.

http://www.midlandsschoolofastrology.co.uk/pyramid_texts_describe_quantum_realm.html

“Re‘ and Thot, take (the traveler?) with you…….that he may sit on that which ye sit,………that he may voyage in that wherein ye voyage” (210) and they go off to the night sky to “reeds” and “marshes”.

Then, very clearly, “thou didst not depart dead; thou didst depart living,” (213). They travel “regions” and “secret places” and he has to “beware of the ocean”. The “dew of the stars” purifies him.

I don`t think this could be any clearer, “thou didst not depart dead, thou didst depart living”. It seems quite clear to me that the traveler is alive!

He is then told very clearly he is not perishable, and that the imperishable stars have carried him away. The stars are always interchangeable with people; they are star persons. WE call famous people `stars`, so why shouldn`t they have? Where did we get the term `star` when referring to a famous person?

In 216, the evening boat comes for him and he is enveloped by something “pure and living” in the horizon. Apparently he is “cool” and it is all very pleasing.

800px-pyramid_text_teti-1.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Ancient Egypt is in the hands of Egyptologists who spend so much time looking down at sand and clay, their thinking turns to concrete and they can`t `imagine` a different possibility. They don`t take the content of the texts seriously, passing it off as magical funeral gibberish. However, a retired physics teacher, C. Harvey, asserts that the grammar and alphabet of the hieroglyphs has a scientific form that is extremely programmable, so the super computers of the scientific community should be able to make some sense of it. However, the scientists don`t yet know it could be important. They are too busy smashing atoms together in underground laboratories to go on holiday and get curious about the Ancient Egyptian underground laboratories….which are probably just as interesting as their own!

I did the math. It works out to 0 = 0.

I would suggest the physicist type watch this if the link will work;

No! No human being could learn all those so-called spells in the Pyramid

Texts such that he might live forever. The king would take one look at

that monstrosity and say he'd much rather die thank you very much.

Egyptologists are so far off the beam that they couldn't even get back to

square one.

Link repaired. I highly recommend it.

Edited by cladking

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Nothing like credibility (?);

"It is proven that tiny particles from the Sun called neutrinos, and electromagnetic forces or waves carry some kind of `intelligence` to us. The texts refer to the “messengers” that come from the Sun. 136b.” The messengers of thy ka are come for thee; the messengers of thy father are come for thee; the messengers of Re‘ are come for thee.”

Re is the Sun God, and these neutrinos come out of the Sun" - Posted reference.

http://www.midlandsschoolofastrology.co.uk/about_alison.html - Source

.

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Nothing like credibility (?);

"It is proven that tiny particles from the Sun called neutrinos, and electromagnetic forces or waves carry some kind of `intelligence` to us. The texts refer to the “messengers” that come from the Sun. 136b.” The messengers of thy ka are come for thee; the messengers of thy father are come for thee; the messengers of Re‘ are come for thee.”

Re is the Sun God, and these neutrinos come out of the Sun" - Posted reference.

http://www.midlandsschoolofastrology.co.uk/about_alison.html - Source

.

So, what's the problem, she is an astrologer and has come up with an idea on what the Pyramid Texts might be about, I don;t know about all the other stuff she writes but I thought the overall idea of the Pyramid Texts being read to astral travel was pretty sensible actually when put into context of the myths and such.

She is not the only one, I just used that particular reference to show how it could be the Pharoah/King was not dead, but actually still alive.

Here's another site that is very detailed comparing it to the practice of shamans.

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/ast.htm

Wiki - Astral travel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

Ancient Egypt - Similar concepts of "soul" travel appear in various other religious traditions, for example ancient Egyptian teachings present the soul as having the ability to hover outside the physical body in the ka, or subtle body.

Astral projection (or astral travel) is an interpretation of any form of out-of-body experience (OOBE) that assumes the existence of an "astral body" separate from the physical body and capable of travelling outside it.[1] Astral projection or travel denotes the astral body leaving the physical body to travel in the astral plane.

The idea of astral travel is rooted in common worldwide religious accounts of the afterlife[2] in which the consciousness' or soul's journey or "ascent" is described in such terms as "an...out-of body experience, wherein the spiritual traveller leaves the physical body and travels in his/her subtle body (or dreambody or astral body) into ‘higher’ realms."[3] It is therefore associated with near death experiences and is also frequently reported as spontaneously experienced in association with sleep and dreams, illness,[4] surgical operations, drug experiences, sleep paralysis and forms of meditation.[5]

It is also sometimes attempted for its own sake,[6] or may be believed to be necessary to, or the result of, some forms of spiritual practice.[7] It may involve "travel to higher realms" called astral planes but is commonly used to describe any sensation of being "out of the body"[8] in the everyday world, even seeing one's body from outside or above. It may be reported in the form of an apparitional experience, a supposed encounter with a doppelgänger, some living person also seen somewhere else at the same time.

Rooted in common worldwide religious accounts of the afterlife. It really isn't such a strange idea.

It was actually once very common it seems and something we have generally lost the ability to do.

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Posted (edited)

Well the problem is, is that astrology is nonsense, astral travel is nonsense. It is called fiction and you are taking it over evidence.

Edited by Mattshark

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Posted (edited)

Well the problem is, is that astrology is nonsense, astral travel is nonsense. It is called fiction and you are taking it over evidence.

Fair enough, I have no answer for that. I know this was probably a waste of time starting this topic and after reading some more it does appear that they were for use after death. I have been reading this

http://books.google.com/books?id=6VBJeCoDdTUC&pg=PA1&dq=2353+-+2323+%22pyramid+texts%22&ei=FW-BSL-rCpTyiwGJrcG8DQ&sig=ACfU3U1-mbNrZ44kBagmG86DWq7eAKXu1g#v=onepage&q=2353%20-%202323%20%22pyramid%20texts%22&f=false

It seemed to make alot of sense but I guess as I read more and more on their actual construction and seperation into the seperate rituals it doesn't leave much room for it to have been anything else but the spells for getting the soul safely back to the stars.

I don't think astral travel is nonsense though completely, it is a very ancient practice and the Australian Aboriginals practiced it, I even know one who has done it. I still say it was done in ancient times and that astral travel is still being performed imo on the dead in these Pyramid Texts, it's just they are dead but are still seen as living, working with a dead person instead of being alive but being seen as alive which may have caused my confusion.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

I still say it was done in ancient times and that astral travel is still being performed imo on the dead in these Pyramid Texts...

As astral travel is pretty much by definition something that is performed or experienced by a living being, it would not apply to the dead. What you are referring to sounds more like some form of soul migration, which is probably closer.

Edit to clarify: Closer to AE beliefs, not necessarily reality.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt

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Fair enough, I have no answer for that. I know this was probably a waste of time starting this topic and after reading some more it does appear that they were for use after death. I have been reading this

You give up too easy.

Allen's translations don't agreee with those which have come before.

While some of this could be caused by new knowledge it's very improb-

able that much of it is since past agreement was excellent. It's dif-

ficult to even compare the works since Allen dumped the numbering

system that was in use for one that is unique to his own "translation".

This entire work appears generally distinct and unique.

If you want to study the PT you might be well advised to use any of

the older versions;

http://web.archive.org/web/20071224054637/www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/pyt06.htm

http://www.pyramidtextsonline.com/translation.html

Also there's Sethe.

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So now we're back to where we were talking some time ago, about consciousness and why it is we can figure out the answer to a problem when we "sleep on it". The soul or consciousness goes astral traveling while we're asleep, and finds the answer. Whether it travels to another planet, another realm, another dimension or whatever, we seem to know things without having been taught them. Once we became "conscious of ourselves" or whatever the correct terminology is, we started to develop a lot faster. This points to us being able to access some mine of information that we couldn't before. Even if we were to "dream" something, and then the next day, make what it is we dreamed of. I'm thinking here of the first humans that were conscious of self. Say they had a dream. Where did the dream come from? If the mind had not yet experienced what the dream was about, where did the dream come from? From an outside influence? Perhaps that is why the AE's believed their king would live on - because the king or the priests, had been astral traveling and knew what was out there.

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Posted (edited)

I'm gonna hafta sleep on it. :sleepy:

Edited by cladking

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You give up too easy.

Allen's translations don't agreee with those which have come before.

While some of this could be caused by new knowledge it's very improb-

able that much of it is since past agreement was excellent. It's dif-

ficult to even compare the works since Allen dumped the numbering

system that was in use for one that is unique to his own "translation".

This entire work appears generally distinct and unique.

If you want to study the PT you might be well advised to use any of

the older versions;

http://web.archive.org/web/20071224054637/www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/pyt06.htm

http://www.pyramidtextsonline.com/translation.html

Also there's Sethe.

lol normally I don't, I must be tired.

I will read the text links you showed, thanks.

Q - I reckon that's it, something like dreams conveyed consciousness or the astral travelling conveyed a kind of level that is unattainable to us to understand how they took this so seriously. Your post is very thought-provoking actually.

I'm gonna hafta sleep on it. :sleepy:

See what your dreams bring you - good night.

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So now we're back to where we were talking some time ago, about consciousness and why it is we can figure out the answer to a problem when we "sleep on it". The soul or consciousness goes astral traveling while we're asleep, and finds the answer. Whether it travels to another planet, another realm, another dimension or whatever, we seem to know things without having been taught them. Once we became "conscious of ourselves" or whatever the correct terminology is, we started to develop a lot faster. This points to us being able to access some mine of information that we couldn't before. Even if we were to "dream" something, and then the next day, make what it is we dreamed of. I'm thinking here of the first humans that were conscious of self. Say they had a dream. Where did the dream come from? If the mind had not yet experienced what the dream was about, where did the dream come from? From an outside influence? Perhaps that is why the AE's believed their king would live on - because the king or the priests, had been astral traveling and knew what was out there.

There seems to be many references where a dream bought a message of importance of they dreamed a prophecy or similar. The Malta temples have dream cubicles they think and I first became interested in what it all meant way back when looking into Malta, it seems a really ancient practice so I wouldn't be suprised if as you say it led to a higher level of development, hard to word but I know what you are saying, I think.

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Here's the sort of thing I was talking about.

http://www.cosmiclight.com/oflightandlife/geometry.htm

This site has a much more indepth explanation. Recommended only for those with an open mind.

http://www.evo-lution.net/blog/posts/keylontic-megapost/

I think the PT's were meant for astral travel aswell as soul migration. We ae really talking about inducing a NDE or OBE. I imagine there would have been a lot of training before hand and then when it came time, the initiate may have become convinced that it was to be a real death. However, a batch of mushrooms would have altered consciousness, combined with altered vibrations I see no reason why the soul could not become released from the body. When they were put in the sarcophagus they were alive but perhaps not all souls made it back to the body so after three days they wre found dead.

When the Pharoah did die, I think they would be using the Couches of Osiris for his soul migration. It goes something like, the Hippo couch leads to the Underworld or Abyss, the Cow couch is rebirth and the Lion couch is ascension. Something like that anyway.

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Just read that Pyramid could mean "Pyre of Fire" where fire is used to mean vibrations. I find it more reasonable to think of the pyramid as a conductor of consciousness that many other suggestions that have been contemplated over the years.

Also, wouldn't the Book of the Dead be the text that deals with funerary rites. I've not studied it so don't know for sure.

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I just read them, they were very interesting, thanks for adding them, the 2nd one was very detailed about the acoustics. The chanting sounded logical enough and may even be where it originated, the whole chamber music thing, is the Great Pyramid chamber the first place they sang chamber music? lol Possibly. It reminds me of some things discussed in the Cygnus topic. It also reminded me of the lyre of Apollo, given to him by the young Hermes. As far as I know that is the first instrument seemingly mentioned by the Greeks. It would be interesting to see if the sounds from an ancient lyre had some connection anywhere. It may hold the code.

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You give up too easy.

Allen's translations don't agreee with those which have come before.

While some of this could be caused by new knowledge it's very improb-

able that much of it is since past agreement was excellent. It's dif-

ficult to even compare the works since Allen dumped the numbering

system that was in use for one that is unique to his own "translation".

This entire work appears generally distinct and unique.

If you want to study the PT you might be well advised to use any of

the older versions;

http://web.archive.org/web/20071224054637/www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/pyt06.htm

http://www.pyramidtextsonline.com/translation.html

Also there's Sethe.

Sethe's is one of the very earliest translations. Considerably outdated now but cutting-edge for his time. Mercer's is more or less a carbon copy of Sethe's work, from which Mercer translated Sethe's from German into English. Faulkner's is quite a bit better than either Sethe or Mercer but also somewhat outdated now.

Allen's is the most comprehensive and complete to date. It is also the most accurate. Considering you do not know the ancient language or religion, you're not really in a position to critique any of these translations. Please, I beg of you, don't tell us you can discern which version of translations is closest to the hieroglyphs themselves, when you don't know how to translate the hieroglyphs (that is, the original language).

That said, Allen's numbering system is rather problematic to those who are used to the old standard system. The problem is, the old standard system presented the spells in a jumbled and incoherent order. Allen's numbering system happens to be the most reliable of any yet printed because, to date, his is the only system that presents the spells in the order in which the Egyptians themselves intended them to be.

Reading Allen's from beginning to end as opposed to Mercer's or Faulkner's, it's no wonder the spells make so much more sense in Allen's translations. They're in the proper order. The back of Allen's book contains very detailed charts for referencing the numbering system of older translations, so with a little work you can locate any given spell provided by Sethe or Faulkner and find the same in Allen's. Additionally, Allen provides translations for all of the Pyramid Texts that have been uncovered by this point in time, so you can compare the differences in the Texts as they appear in the pyramids of Unis, Teti, Pepi I, and the others. Past translations were mostly incomplete.

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Allen's is the most comprehensive and complete to date. It is also the most accurate. Considering you do not know the ancient language or religion, you're not really in a position to critique any of these translations. Please, I beg of you, don't tell us you can discern which version of translations is closest to the hieroglyphs themselves, when you don't know how to translate the hieroglyphs (that is, the original language).

It's actually quite apparent that Allen was influenced by the coffin

texts and even the book of the dead in his translations. He speaks of

many concepts that don't arise for hundreds and even thousands of years

after the Pyramid Texts were first written.

This is another form of assuming the conclusion.

When it appeaers that I'm commenting on the heiroglyphs it will usually

actually be a comment on the consistency of the translation or the accur-

acy as judged by how true it is to the concept of water. In very few cases

have I actually looked at the hieroglyphs and seen glaring errors.

That said, Allen's numbering system is rather problematic to those who are used to the old standard system. The problem is, the old standard system presented the spells in a jumbled and incoherent order. Allen's numbering system happens to be the most reliable of any yet printed because, to date, his is the only system that presents the spells in the order in which the Egyptians themselves intended them to be.

That they are spells and in some regular order are Allen's contentions and

these are based partly on later works like the coffin texts. Even were the

latter contention accurate it should be considered that our version of the

"Hymms of Ascension" come from a period long after the great pyramids were

built and the hymms were first written. You have to not only look at what

the Pyramid Texts are but what they were when the great pyramids were being

built. Much of this is supposition but it is based on a literal understand-

ing of the meaning. There are things which become apparent when these are

seen in this light that are not visible otherwise.

Yes, there probably was an order to these poems before our earliest copy

and this order might be partially preserved and properly reported by Allen.

It seems more than merely problematical to simply invent a new numbering sys-

tem and casting off the old. There's no evidence these are even properly un-

derstood at all so how does anyone get off suggesting only his way is right?

Until he can show any of this magic works or that there are no mysteries in

regards to ancient Egypt he has no business claiming that there is a set or-

der. But even if these were established fact why would anyone invent a system

and not cross reference to the established system??? I've never seen such a

thing.

Reading Allen's from beginning to end as opposed to Mercer's or Faulkner's, it's no wonder the spells make so much more sense in Allen's translations. They're in the proper order. The back of Allen's book contains very detailed charts for referencing the numbering system of older translations, so with a little work you can locate any given spell provided by Sethe or Faulkner and find the same in Allen's. Additionally, Allen provides translations for all of the Pyramid Texts that have been uncovered by this point in time, so you can compare the differences in the Texts as they appear in the pyramids of Unis, Teti, Pepi I, and the others. Past translations were mostly incomplete.

I wasn't aware of this. I guess I'll have to locate a copy of the book.

You are still treading on very thin ice by claiming that Allen is the final

word on the PT. The simple fact is that while he eliminates many of the refer-

ences to water and the Land of Horus, those which remain are almost impossible

to interpret in any way other than a description of geysers. He says that the

Gods are adorned with sky arcs for instance.

A lot of my distrust for this work is simply the mess that was made of yeast

gas. I'm always going to be dubious where words are translated in various ways

and the translator speaks of concepts that post date the work by centuries.

It's likely that he really is one of the most expert people on the Egyptian

language but that doesn't make him correct on any given translation. I don't

even know enough to judge but I can read.

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I believe that if you put your feet into the sarcophagus in the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid, your feet will turn into monkey hands.

Now, I mean monkey hands, not monkey feet. Not that there's all that much difference between these appendages on a monkey. But I, as usual, insist on accuracy and that's why I dwell on the monkey hand/foot distinction here.

Of course, most people probably believe this. Just because you can't find evidence of it, that doesn't mean I'm wrong. After all, if you weren't all so lazy, somebody here could easily prove me wrong, right?

Harte

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There seems to be many references where a dream bought a message of importance of they dreamed a prophecy or similar. The Malta temples have dream cubicles they think and I first became interested in what it all meant way back when looking into Malta, it seems a really ancient practice so I wouldn't be suprised if as you say it led to a higher level of development, hard to word but I know what you are saying, I think.

There were certainly some curious dreams last night.

I watched Time Element which was a sort of precursor for Twilight Zone

this morning and it was related to my dreams. In it a guy goes to the

psychiatrist complaining that he always time travels in his sleep to Hon-

oululu on Dec 6, 1941 from his home in 1958. He gets into various mischief

in the past and then is killed in the Japanese attack the next morning

when he falls asleep in the doctor's office. He disappears from the doc-

tor's couch and is very soon forgotten.

Let's all be careful out there. ;)

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Wouldnt it be cool to take a few select people, and one at a time, have them spend the night in the King's chamber. Then ask them about the experience when they emerged in the morning.

Here's my list of people to send in:

1. ME FIRST!

2. One of those buddhist monks who heats his body up and evaporates all the water of a soaking wet ice-cold blanket (citation needed)

3. One of those (indian?) guys who slows his heart rate to nearly nothing. (citation needed)

4. One or two shaman from the south american rainforests (citations needed)

5. etc

If the thing is some kind of astral or consciousness device, and assuming it has at least partial functionality in it's current form, perhaps those types of people would have some luck in understanding it.

Would be a fun experiment :)

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I just remembered the Twilight Zone from broadcast TV last

night. (well it was the night before last actually) (ch 26

-Chicago)

It was "Perchance to Dream" where a guy goes to the psychia-

trist complaining that he dreams serially and a character who

knows he's sleeping is trying to kill him by straining his weak

heart. He falls asleep on the couch and she polishes him off.

Last night was "Judgement Night" where Nehemiah Persoff is con-

demned to forever riding in the ship the submarine he commanded

in WW II blew out of the water.

There does seem to be a theme developing.

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Posted (edited)

Wouldnt it be cool to take a few select people, and one at a time, have them spend the night in the King's chamber. Then ask them about the experience when they emerged in the morning.

Here's my list of people to send in:

1. ME FIRST!

2. One of those buddhist monks who heats his body up and evaporates all the water of a soaking wet ice-cold blanket (citation needed)

3. One of those (indian?) guys who slows his heart rate to nearly nothing. (citation needed)

4. One or two shaman from the south american rainforests (citations needed)

5. etc

If the thing is some kind of astral or consciousness device, and assuming it has at least partial functionality in it's current form, perhaps those types of people would have some luck in understanding it.

Would be a fun experiment :)

Napolean Bonapart spent a night in the box and would never tell

anyone what happened. He said no one would ever believe him.

I can't stand monkey hands. B)

Edited by cladking

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Posted (edited)

While my own personal suspicion is that the pyramid was used as some type of conscience expanding, projecting, or altering device; but the author of the article is less than convincing.

Clearly the author knows very little about particle physics. It sounds like they just read the "news" or saw a couple discovery channel shows and think they are onto something.

The only thing I'm convinced of is that it aint a TOMB! That seems to be an idea created by people with a very narrow knowledge base (and people unable to say "I have no idea). When you spend your life studying ancient tombs in Egypt (which there are many) and you take a look at the great pyramid, what else are you going to think it is?

When your only tool is hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Although in all honesty, I would think an Egyptian tomb expert would be the first in line shouting "that is nothing like an Egyptian tomb!". Perhaps they would rather get published and secure tenure... /shrug

That said, the fringe guys suggesting it's a nuclear reactor or some device to speak with nibblers are just as out there as the "experts" and their tomb theories.

In all honestly, there is very little evidence to support ANY theory about what it's purpose was. Of course, our lack of serious scientific investigation isnt helping.

Edited by Qwasz

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In all honestly, there is very little evidence to support ANY theory about what it's purpose was. Of course, our lack of serious scientific investigation isnt helping.

Well... ...in all fairness whenever they think of a way to prove it

was a tomb made with ramps and the Pyramid Texts are spells they're

all over the science.

Heaven forfend they should just seek evidence to determine the facts.

And everyone wonders why there are nothing but mysteries surrounding

a 6 1/2 million ton piece of the REAL world. Everyone wonders why no

one can crack this mystery while all the assumptions are in error. And

they wonder why there are a million crackpot theories trying to explain

the few known facts.

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