Uniting Humanity

[Rosewin]

contribution to a topic is different to at least understanding it

Indeed.

god damn i love saturday nights

And that would explain why.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Rosewin

[cluey]

Indeed.

And that would explain why.

simple......i love saturday night.......and for once i'm home...........ohhhh and B-this is simple amusement.........i just wanted the understanding of the topic at hand to be clear before any possible result/logical out come to be of any use to anyone wanting to know

[Rosewin]

ohhhh and B-this is simple amusement

.........i just wanted the understanding of the topic at hand to be clear before any possible result/logical out come to be of any use to anyone wanting to know

I also clicked the link you provided earlier. I saw what you were talking about. I placed in bold what this thread was about.

• The human species
  The total world population
  
• Human nature, psychological characteristics that all normal humans have in common
  Compassion, altruism, or similar positive aspects of human nature along with aggression, fear, or similar negative aspects
  
• The human condition, the totality of experience of existing as a human

I suppose on a Saturday night that those first two looked kinda boring so skipping them was the only fun thing to do.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Rosewin

[SlimJim22]

Ultimately, momentum is created by opposign forces. Eventually one subsides to give direction but without the two forces there is not the need for the energy to be created or exerted. Not sure if I explained that too well but if you take an example of good and evil or light and dark, without one the other becomes meaningless. Even evil has a role to play because it is what galvanizes the good into action (usually at least). Without darkness light would not be anything special. It is never a case of one overcoming the other entirely but a process of phases or cycles that brings about the necessary conditions for growth. So when I am talking about spirituality and shamanism and such it is not a step backwards but a case of trying to understand the nature of spirit through the most up to date science possible.

The balance and the synthesis must be achieved in order to move along the golden spiral. Scarcity is one of those tings that creates divison like nothing else. The causes of scarcity are greed and lethargy as well as arrogance I guess. If individual goals could be put aside for a generation or two and not even complete but a majority should suffice then the planet could be healed a little. Replenishing stocks of fish, rejuvenating soil and just learning to live in harmony more. Biospheres would be a prime example of how science and spirit could unite for the betterment of all. Maybe a pyramid wouldn't be such a bad shape.

Interpretations are an important aspect of philosophy because two rational individuals could interpret the same facts in two totally different ways. We are all different and filter reality through our own beliefs and experiences. Both can be right because interpretations of facts are innevitably subject to what we think and feel. If we can stop arguing over who is right and accept both are equally correct interpretations then we will be getting somewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics

If we look at the actual influence of hermetics in history it may be useful. Following the Crusades of the Middle ages there was an emphasis on the building of gothic cathedrals encoding the sacred knowledge. This was financed largely by the the money accrued by the Knights Templar through banking. However, with the demise of the Templars the power of the banks fell into the hands of the de Medici family of Florence. They were allegedly users of black magick but I find it significant that around the same time and the same area (roughly) the italian renaissance emerged. This does not mean it was supported by the de Medici instead it could have been a reaction to it, a form of protest by people perhaps influence by hermetic thought which helped them to activate higher brain functioning in what was a unstable period.

A century or two later the hermetic thought had spread to England and this could have been a reaction to the treatment of Giordano Bruno and Galileo. English contributors include John Milton, William Shaespear and Sir Francis Bacon. Also, around this time you have John Dee who helped to inspire Queen Elizabeth to extend the British Empire. The success of the British Empire is not down to dee but without him it may never had the courage to try. Furthermore, it is the time of the Reformation and the thirty year war and all manner of other things. So, basically it was an extrememly unstable time but I think that it was hermeticism that set alight the imagination and would eventually lead to the establishment of the scientific method.

Recall that Newton was a memeber of the Invisible College and was heavily influenced by esoterica.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Renaissance

Just to reiterate I think it is about bringing science and spirit together in union but not taking anything away from each. Science should remain evidence based and spirituality faith based but in areas where there is interaction we can look at performing advanced research. Dreams, OBE's EMF and vibrational healing are all good points to start. Unfortuantely, many believe that subjective empiricism is worthless but as we have already discussed interpretations of facts are by their perceived nature subjective. Doubt I have explained too good but I am happy to try and explain further on key points if required.

[cluey]

I also clicked the link you provided earlier. I saw what you were talking about. I placed in bold what this thread was about.

• The human species
  The total world population
• Human nature, psychological characteristics that all normal humans have in common
  Compassion, altruism, or similar positive aspects of human nature along with aggression, fear, or similar negative aspects
• The human condition, the totality of experience of existing as a human

I suppose on a Saturday night that those first two looked kinda boring so skipping them was the only fun thing to do.

..........nothing on my behalf was overlooked.................was just keeping it all real........and thank you slimjim for your intelligent/logical imput.........and thanks rosey...........for re posting what i posted

Edited June 19, 2010 by cluey

[SlimJim22]

..........nothing on my behalf was overlooked.................was just keeping it all real........and thank you slimjim for your intelligent/logical imput.........and thanks rosey...........for re posting what i posted

It really is my pleasure. It never comes out as planned but I hope I'm throwing some food for thought in the mix.

[ShadowSot]

We can't, really.

You can get groups of people that are similar who will unite, but people at large won't. Even in a all out war against an alien species, you'd have people who would support the aliens, those who wouldn't fight, those who would fight the other groups fighting the alien.

THink of major countries, in these major countries are people who only loosely associate with the country they are in, and often groups who protest against the country itself.

[Rosewin]

Ultimately, momentum is created by opposign forces. Eventually one subsides to give direction but without the two forces there is not the need for the energy to be created or exerted. Not sure if I explained that too well but if you take an example of good and evil or light and dark, without one the other becomes meaningless. Even evil has a role to play because it is what galvanizes the good into action (usually at least). Without darkness light would not be anything special. It is never a case of one overcoming the other entirely but a process of phases or cycles that brings about the necessary conditions for growth.

Agreed.

So when I am talking about spirituality and shamanism and such it is not a step backwards but a case of trying to understand the nature of spirit through the most up to date science possible.

I have faith science will one day be able to explain spirituality. I doubt spirituality could ever explain science.

The balance and the synthesis must be achieved in order to move along the golden spiral. Scarcity is one of those tings that creates divison like nothing else. The causes of scarcity are greed and lethargy as well as arrogance I guess.

Agreed.

If individual goals could be put aside for a generation or two and not even complete but a majority should suffice then the planet could be healed a little. Replenishing stocks of fish, rejuvenating soil and just learning to live in harmony more.

It is up to individuals themselves, right now in this moment, to do all the work you believe that it will take everybody to do for a generation or two to do.

No majority required. The planet is healed when you are.

The secret to perfection is neither hidden in ancient knowledge or a task for millions in the future. It begins with yourself in the present.

Perfection is of the moment. There are no perfect pasts or futures there are only perfect moments. Engineer and produce them.

Biospheres would be a prime example of how science and spirit could unite for the betterment of all. Maybe a pyramid wouldn't be such a bad shape.

How would spirit play a part in biospheres environments or pyramids?

Interpretations are an important aspect of philosophy because two rational individuals could interpret the same facts in two totally different ways. We are all different and filter reality through our own beliefs and experiences. Both can be right because interpretations of facts are innevitably subject to what we think and feel. If we can stop arguing over who is right and accept both are equally correct interpretations then we will be getting somewhere.

Agreed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics

If we look at the actual influence of hermetics in history it may be useful. Following the Crusades of the Middle ages there was an emphasis on the building of gothic cathedrals encoding the sacred knowledge. This was financed largely by the the money accrued by the Knights Templar through banking. However, with the demise of the Templars the power of the banks fell into the hands of the de Medici family of Florence. They were allegedly users of black magick but I find it significant that around the same time and the same area (roughly) the italian renaissance emerged. This does not mean it was supported by the de Medici instead it could have been a reaction to it, a form of protest by people perhaps influence by hermetic thought which helped them to activate higher brain functioning in what was a unstable period.

It could very well be that de Medicis helped push along the Renaissance and were also products of it.

The Gothic cathedral was modeled after the Romanesque style and improved on it. Do you know if sacred knowledge was placed in those as well?

There were also others banks and families but the Medici Bank did prosper and dominate for a time within the almost 100 years of its existence.

I would not find it odd that those of the Renaissance, with all the new found connections and networks, that they would want to study every piece of knowledge ever assembled and esoteric knowledge would have been part of that agenda. It most likely would not have been that secret in that day and age? But with the advent of modern science such beliefs fell to the wayside based on not being applicable to the current technology tree we have developed along with.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are stating it is a possibility that hermetic thought led to higher brain functioning for Medici family and associates to further advance the Renaissance?

If so I would have to disagree totally, there are just so many other factors that led up to the Renaissance, all occurring at once, and so many things that it was built upon that had already been developed before, trusted to be reliable paradigms, and that withstood the test of time, these are the type of concepts that always lead to knowledge explosions.

The reason Europe as a whole continent advanced faster overall than Africa as a whole continent is because if someone invented the match head for example where Cairo is at now and then at where Johannesburg is at now someone invented the match stick. How long would it take through trade of one tribe to another and so forth before they meet and become the match!

In Europe, because of it having so many peninsulas, because sea power was used early on, it provided the ability for people to quickly trade all over, pass on ideas at the same time, and thus put one and one together faster.

If though on the other hand the theory is that hermetic thought among the Medici family and a few others led to the raising of everyone's consciousness and awareness then it might be plausible at best but still would not deny that the Renaissance is simply a knowledge explosion of which the most recent ones we have experienced since the 1900's have rivaled any other in remembered history and we can see there is no magic behind it.

The precision and mass manufacturing capabilities of the industrial revolutions combined with the puritanical empiricism that science adopted which discarded anything not of value in science's sole pursuit led directly to the atomic and then the computer era we are now in.

There has been no obvious hermetic contributions to the most recent knowledge explosions and that might be a pattern that has already been established long before the Renaissance thus making the chances very narrow that hermetic thought had anything to do with advancing technology then.

A century or two later the hermetic thought had spread to England and this could have been a reaction to the treatment of Giordano Bruno and Galileo. English contributors include John Milton, William Shaespear and Sir Francis Bacon. Also, around this time you have John Dee who helped to inspire Queen Elizabeth to extend the British Empire. The success of the British Empire is not down to dee but without him it may never had the courage to try. Furthermore, it is the time of the Reformation and the thirty year war and all manner of other things. So, basically it was an extrememly unstable time but I think that it was hermeticism that set alight the imagination and would eventually lead to the establishment of the scientific method.

Recall that Newton was a memeber of the Invisible College and was heavily influenced by esoterica.

Well Newton did actually write more esoterica than on topics that are credited with being scientific.

Newton did not hide his occult writing and then turn around in public and act like a scientist. In that era they were still figuring out what to discard and what to retain, they accepted more than we did today as worthy of pursuit, as we advanced though much was discarded, and this process is still ongoing as we shed more prejudice.

Just to reiterate I think it is about bringing science and spirit together in union but not taking anything away from each. Science should remain evidence based and spirituality faith based but in areas where there is interaction we can look at performing advanced research. Dreams, OBE's EMF and vibrational healing are all good points to start. Unfortuantely, many believe that subjective empiricism is worthless but as we have already discussed interpretations of facts are by their perceived nature subjective. Doubt I have explained too good but I am happy to try and explain further on key points if required.

I just cannot imagine the intersection of science and spirit producing anything more beneficial than allowing us to simply understand spirit better and how it works - and also - use science better in its many possible applications. A reciprocal relationship indeed and the popular myth that science and spirit are at odds has denied us the benefits of that.

That is why many eco-idolize the Native American because at least in our current romantic view of them, which is more based on our collective instinct to want to cherish what we have destroyed, they seemed to have the balance of developing an economy and industries that respected both themselves and nature.

We can't, really.

You can get groups of people that are similar who will unite, but people at large won't. Even in a all out war against an alien species, you'd have people who would support the aliens, those who wouldn't fight, those who would fight the other groups fighting the alien.

THink of major countries, in these major countries are people who only loosely associate with the country they are in, and often groups who protest against the country itself.

If there were an actual alien vs human battle, and assuming they have vastly superior technology, then thought and those who oppose the aliens will simply disappear.

Those who sided with the aliens will become all that is left of humanity and thus it would be united under conquest.

You are right though. Not many in Lebanon consider themselves Lebanese. They are Sunni, Shiite, Maronite, or Druze.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Rosewin

[SlimJim22]

Have you read The Celestine Prophecy? Fiction but I do like the parts where you have people working with plants through EMF. This is something I have read Icke is interested in researching to undesert part of the Sahara. He's probably just saying it but I reckon if it was done in a biosphere where environment could be managed it would be a basis for an area of future science focussed on botany and EMF. I can't make any more speculations as to the results but I figure a pyramid would be as good a shape as any. Problem is that such a scientific program would cost millions if not billions. If the environment gets much worse it will be necessary to make deserts more habitable and fertile. Just my view but an area of immense value and the connection between spirit and plant life is well known.

I see what your saying on the Renaissance and I do not claim an adequate knowledge of the period. I however, noticed these things did coincide at the end of the late middle ages. It could as you say be a reaction to what else was going on but it could have been a contributing factor. What I see is that the Church was against science as it was with everything else and the very first science came out of deism and hermeticism. It was fundamentally rejected with the treatment of Bruno and this changed the paradigm somewhat making the Church, by necessity approachable on the subject even if not openly. This softening could have added weight to the growing scientific movement. The Chucrh supporting it eventually for the rejection of gnosis and focus on what is observable and all that. I suppose Da Vinci was very much a scientist among other things but science is more closely linked to alchemy and this reached a high point in 16th century Vienna with the highest elements of society. Having such a close affinity with the city could have influenced the composers from the city in the future. We never know how powerful the undercurrents of society. If we accept they did exist and were active at certain times then is it wrong to see them as key influences?

In the modern period one would only have to look to the likes of Tesla, Sir William Crooks, Edison amongst others and that is just in science. Through masonry they have influenced politics and business and through more occult means the arts I suspect. It has often worked that when looking for one thing something totally different is discovered. They may not have been looking at all unless inspired by a dream or something they read or experienced.

In the future areas that I feel could cross over into the spiritual are EMF as I mentioned already but also ORMUS particles, consciousness, zero point energy and maybe some kind of healing based on vibrations or light. A case of understanding miracles can be made and if miracles still defy explanation then they remain miracles but I feel we have a duty to try and explain things through QM now we have discovered it. Remember that QM is based on sacred rations and the ionic scale and such things. I don't understand it all but that these things fit is remarkable, also to the ancient peoples nature and spirit were one and the same.

http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/centennial/1.html

[Rosewin]

In the modern period one would only have to look to the likes of Tesla, Sir William Crooks, Edison amongst others and that is just in science. Through masonry they have influenced politics and business and through more occult means the arts I suspect. It has often worked that when looking for one thing something totally different is discovered. They may not have been looking at all unless inspired by a dream or something they read or experienced.

I will not deny that dreams have led to some innovations but that singular fact is not proof that Tesla or anyone else used occult means or arts to further scientific innovation.

Everything we have is a result of it being based on and built upon things that came before. There is no proof that secret knowledge led to any scientific or technological innovations that have contributed to humanity. Having a dream that allows one to connect the dots and invent something is still based on the person having the dots to begin with and just seeing a new way to put them together. The dots are based on traditional and freely shared information.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Rosewin

[Fernand0]

ok!....my problem with this question about uniting humanity is.......(human nature is a psychological characteristic that all human have in common)........considering not all humans are normal.......how is this possible?????

As the United States proves, you can be united and abnormal at the same time.

[Sabbath]

Destroy anyone (nations even) that will not have peace. Make the laws strict, and have the death penalty imo, and have the same law for the whole world, though religions can remain, just that everyone has to follow the world law. Kill/imprison those who don't want to take part in that world law, and the law of world peace.

How about that?!

Edited June 23, 2010 by Blacksabbath

[Rosewin]

Yes, but without all the killing lol

People who do not want to respect the government, be it world law or our current laws, already face legal consequences.

[Sabbath]

Yes, but without all the killing lol

People who do not want to respect the government, be it world law or our current laws, already face legal consequences.

In my opinion death would be the only effective and fast solution, or you will never have world peace. There will always be bombings, wars etc. Either that or the prisons would be even more over populated hmm.

[Rosewin]

Kinda makes senses but its just so horrible

[Subjugator]

Until people get rid of their nationalist mentality

and then we can have a massive orgy of 6 billion people and smoke some weed

Edited June 25, 2010 by Razz

[Rosewin]

Agreed.

[lightly]

Destroy anyone (nations even) that will not have peace. Make the laws strict, and have the death penalty imo, and have the same law for the whole world, though religions can remain, just that everyone has to follow the world law. Kill/imprison those who don't want to take part in that world law, and the law of world peace.

How about that?!

i don't think we can destroy,kill, and imprison our way to unity and peace.