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Still Waters

Ball lightning is all in the mind, say

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Physicists in Austria say they have solved the conundrum of "ball lightning", mysterious glowing spherical apparitions which baffled boffins have struggled to explain for centuries.

According to Josef Peer and Alexander Kendl of the University of Innsbruck, there is in fact no such thing as ball lightning in reality.Rather, powerful magnetic fields created by ordinary lightning affect the brains of humans nearby so that they see things which aren't there.

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StillWaters, interesting thread - I'm having trouble accepting the explanation as, in some ball lightning accounts, physical trace evidence is left behind and/or there are reports of strange odours.

There's some intriguing testimony in the thread below from an Arthur C Clarke documentary and, although I do admire the scientists who actualy investigate this phenomenon, I still think there are a lot of unanswered questions.

Ball lightning and UFOs

Cheers.

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A bit of a longshot, but still as good as any other theory out there. (And waaaayy better than a lot)

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A bit of a longshot, but still as good as any other theory out there. (And waaaayy better than a lot)

If it's all in the mind...why are there photo's of it?

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A bit of a longshot, but still as good as any other theory out there. (And waaaayy better than a lot)

Hi Larving, I can't find the link but the claims that 'electromagnetic effects causes hallucinations and false memory' were also reported in this U.K. Ministry of Defense UFO Executive summary report but they were later deemed invalid when it was discovered that the researcher had fabricated the data.

UAP in the UK Air Defence Region: Executive Summary

Cheers.

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If it's all in the mind...why are there photo's of it?

In a hypothetical "if" those images would then obviously be fake.

Of whether or not that's the case, I have no clue.

Thank you for the link Karl 12. Added it to favourites and will try to read through it later. Since there's quite a lot to read. :lol:

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Google ball lightning and you will find many photos and videos of it. One lab even posted a video of having reproduced ball lightning in a lab, although with that one I have to say, if they don't understand what causes it, how can they know they specifically recreated what people have been seeing/recording?

Anyways, given the recorded evidence, I don't believe this study. I don't even see where they reproduced this phenomenon in a lab. Can environmental factors cause hallucinations? Yes! Does it explain this away? Not in my opinion given what I've seen recorded on still- and video-cameras.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for the link Karl 12. Added it to favourites and will try to read through it later. Since there's quite a lot to read. :lol:

Larving,no probs matey -there's also a good interview about unidentified aerial phenomena here if you're interested in that sort of thing (worth saving for a rainy day anyway :) ).

Here are those interviews from the Arthur C Clarke documentary mentioned above - it also shows some interesting lab footage in the second vid.

Cheers.

Edited by karl 12

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Thats what skeptics athiests and egotistic scientists say when they can't explain something. Your imagining it.

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What I would like to know is "What God ever gave these little scientists the authority to make any official claims as to what is real and what is not?". Has it ever occurred to many of you that these 'scientists' are just kids. 90%+ of them are still in the midst of schooling that is be paid for by rich parents or "Government" grants. RARELY will you ever find one that is even beyond his or her 30s with any chance to have experienced life yet in order to be in any position to give any credible decision on what's real or not. These scientists are no different that any other KID that just thinks he or she knows everything about life before they even had a chance to live one for themselves.

As an example... look at who is running your Hadron Collider that has the potential to destroy our entire planet...

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What I would like to know is "What God ever gave these little scientists the authority to make any official claims as to what is real and what is not?". Has it ever occurred to many of you that these 'scientists' are just kids. 90%+ of them are still in the midst of schooling that is be paid for by rich parents or "Government" grants. RARELY will you ever find one that is even beyond his or her 30s with any chance to have experienced life yet in order to be in any position to give any credible decision on what's real or not. These scientists are no different that any other KID that just thinks he or she knows everything about life before they even had a chance to live one for themselves.

As an example... look at who is running your Hadron Collider that has the potential to destroy our entire planet...

You are right on many points. Publish or perish academic culture forces people to choose between success or dishonesty. Journals don't publish negative results. So you spent $250,000 dollars researching how magnetic fields create hallucinations? Reporting that they don't will mean no more funding, and no chance to get your article in the journal, which means no Ph.d,tenure,job, ...

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What I would like to know is "What God ever gave these little scientists the authority to make any official claims as to what is real and what is not?". Has it ever occurred to many of you that these 'scientists' are just kids. 90%+ of them are still in the midst of schooling that is be paid for by rich parents or "Government" grants. RARELY will you ever find one that is even beyond his or her 30s with any chance to have experienced life yet in order to be in any position to give any credible decision on what's real or not. These scientists are no different that any other KID that just thinks he or she knows everything about life before they even had a chance to live one for themselves.

As an example... look at who is running your Hadron Collider that has the potential to destroy our entire planet...

everything you just said is wrong

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Thats what skeptics athiests and egotistic scientists say when they can't explain something. Your imagining it.

When "egotistic scientists" actually bring scientific backing to support their claims, it's worth listening to.

What I would like to know is "What God ever gave these little scientists the authority to make any official claims as to what is real and what is not?".

Having actually studied withing a specific field of science generally does give you some authority to talk about it. With good reason.

Besides, saying these scientists are making claims as of "what is real and what is not" is an incredible blanketing statement considering they are not claiming that ball lightning "isn't real" but that it's a real phenomenon which they have concluded, through their research, is most likely caused by magnetic fields creating phosphenes.

Has it ever occurred to many of you that these 'scientists' are just kids. 90%+ of them are still in the midst of schooling that is be paid for by rich parents or "Government" grants. RARELY will you ever find one that is even beyond his or her 30s with any chance to have experienced life yet in order to be in any position to give any credible decision on what's real or not. These scientists are no different that any other KID that just thinks he or she knows everything about life before they even had a chance to live one for themselves.

As an example... look at who is running your Hadron Collider that has the potential to destroy our entire planet...

The director general for CERN, the organization responsible for the Hadron Collider, is Rolf-Dieter Heuer, he is a particle physicist and is turning 62 in a few days, I believe. And while I agree that you do need experience to be able to speak about "life" with any form of authority. These people aren't discussing life, they are discussing physics. Something that "growing old" won't teach you.

And the Hadron Collider will not destroy our planet, neither can it.

(When did scientists and education in general get such a bad reputation?)

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Thats what skeptics athiests and egotistic scientists say when they can't explain something. Your imagining it.

As opposed to what religious and uneducated people say - "its magic" ? (yes magic includes god).

What I would like to know is "What God ever gave these little scientists the authority to make any official claims as to what is real and what is not?". Has it ever occurred to many of you that these 'scientists' are just kids. 90%+ of them are still in the midst of schooling that is be paid for by rich parents or "Government" grants. RARELY will you ever find one that is even beyond his or her 30s with any chance to have experienced life yet in order to be in any position to give any credible decision on what's real or not. These scientists are no different that any other KID that just thinks he or she knows everything about life before they even had a chance to live one for themselves.

As an example... look at who is running your Hadron Collider that has the potential to destroy our entire planet...

Wow, i can only assume your some 50+ year old person that has a complex about young people being smarter than you. Since for one, a person in his/her 30s or even 20s isnt a kid by most definitions, secondly a 22 year old that finished university will 99% of the time be a bigger authority on any scientific subject then any "non-kid" that isnt an expert on the subject(a real expert, not some self proclaimed know-it-all). And lastly, a person living an active life and/or reading the right things will always be a bigger authority on "life" (not that this blank statement describes anything in particular) that some redneck yokel, regardless of age.

As for the topic, i find it hard to believe the magnetic fields would be so strong as to affect the mind, and in such a specific and consistent way, especially when nothing else (i.e. electronics) arent affected. And then theres all the visual evidence...

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As opposed to what religious and uneducated people say - "its magic" ? (yes magic includes god).

Wow, i can only assume your some 50+ year old person that has a complex about young people being smarter than you. Since for one, a person in his/her 30s or even 20s isnt a kid by most definitions, secondly a 22 year old that finished university will 99% of the time be a bigger authority on any scientific subject then any "non-kid" that isnt an expert on the subject(a real expert, not some self proclaimed know-it-all). And lastly, a person living an active life and/or reading the right things will always be a bigger authority on "life" (not that this blank statement describes anything in particular) that some redneck yokel, regardless of age.

As for the topic, i find it hard to believe the magnetic fields would be so strong as to affect the mind, and in such a specific and consistent way, especially when nothing else (i.e. electronics) arent affected. And then theres all the visual evidence...

the magnetic fields do not have to be strong. its not the magnetic fields that are inducing the hallucinations, its the change in magnetic field which induces a current in the brain's neurons, resulting in an hallucination

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Those comments by so called scientists just show you how ignorant humanity is when it comes to certain things. "All in the mind"??? How about opening your minds!!!

Closed minds and unexperience go hand in hand with science nowadays. "All in the mind"??? This must have come from some blissful people ... all great scientific discoveries come from those who think outside the box. Well I do apologize!!! Some of us are lucky enough to have the experience neccesary to call these so called scientists idiots. Which is exactly what they are!!!

I have the know and I would send my soul to hell to the uttermost low ... give me a break. These peeons need to go back to school and discover that humankind has yet to understand squat. As shown with these comments!!! Disagree with me??? Hopefully you will understand how wrong you are on this subject in your lifetime ... all in the mind "my friends mind", my neighbors mind ... my donk!!!

For those who are preaching hallucinations ... get a clue. If one person saw it fine. Two, three or in one case of mine five people??? Just not logical these conclusions are and end of story!!!!! ... :sleepy:

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Google ball lightning and you will find many photos and videos of it. One lab even posted a video of having reproduced ball lightning in a lab, although with that one I have to say, if they don't understand what causes it, how can they know they specifically recreated what people have been seeing/recording?

Anyways, given the recorded evidence, I don't believe this study. I don't even see where they reproduced this phenomenon in a lab. Can environmental factors cause hallucinations? Yes! Does it explain this away? Not in my opinion given what I've seen recorded on still- and video-cameras.

Got that right. :geek:

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Posted (edited)

Those comments by so called scientists just show you how ignorant humanity is when it comes to certain things. "All in the mind"??? How about opening your minds!!!

Closed minds and unexperience go hand in hand with science nowadays. "All in the mind"??? This must have come from some blissful people ... all great scientific discoveries come from those who think outside the box. Well I do apologize!!! Some of us are lucky enough to have the experience neccesary to call these so called scientists idiots. Which is exactly what they are!!!

I have the know and I would send my soul to hell to the uttermost low ... give me a break. These peeons need to go back to school and discover that humankind has yet to understand squat. As shown with these comments!!! Disagree with me??? Hopefully you will understand how wrong you are on this subject in your lifetime ... all in the mind "my friends mind", my neighbors mind ... my donk!!!

For those who are preaching hallucinations ... get a clue. If one person saw it fine. Two, three or in one case of mine five people??? Just not logical these conclusions are and end of story!!!!! ... :sleepy:

Problem is that scientists don't want to be wrong. They always want to be right. :unsure:

Whoops! Sorry for double posting! :(

Edited by Brakzar Break

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IMAGINE THAT.....i know for a fact that ball lightning exist because i have seen very rare photographs showing ball lightining in 3 dimensions..yes...nature does have the ability to form isolated cohesive circular magnetic fields...and it also go's to show you to state as a fact that no such thing exist for as wonderous as nature is is the talk of a idiot more less a scientist. :P

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Posted (edited)

Thats what skeptics athiests and egotistic scientists say when they can't explain something. Your imagining it.

I am a pretty hard core skeptic, I doubt many here would argue that.

I too have a great deal of trouble accepting this as an absolute answer. We have photo's, are the camera's hallucinating?

Tesla did experiments with ball lightning-like phenomena for audiences. He is depicted to have held a similar phenomena in his hand, I believe measured at 1,000 volts.

Maybe it explains some instances, from what information has been released I feel it awful premature to claim "all" I would like to see more on how these conclusions were achieved.

tesla_2.gif

Edited by psyche101

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As opposed to what religious and uneducated people say - "its magic" ? (yes magic includes god).

Wow, i can only assume your some 50+ year old person that has a complex about young people being smarter than you. Since for one, a person in his/her 30s or even 20s isnt a kid by most definitions, secondly a 22 year old that finished university will 99% of the time be a bigger authority on any scientific subject then any "non-kid" that isnt an expert on the subject(a real expert, not some self proclaimed know-it-all). And lastly, a person living an active life and/or reading the right things will always be a bigger authority on "life" (not that this blank statement describes anything in particular) that some redneck yokel, regardless of age.

As for the topic, i find it hard to believe the magnetic fields would be so strong as to affect the mind, and in such a specific and consistent way, especially when nothing else (i.e. electronics) arent affected. And then theres all the visual evidence...

Lavoisier who was one of the greatest scientist in France at the time once said: Meteorites can't exist since there are not stones in the sky. Yet despite his ignorance on meteorites, he still managed to recognize the first law of conservation of masses: rien ne se perd rien ne se cree tout se transforme. ;)

Yes you can be brilliant and dumb in the same life.

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I saw ball lightning myself, and it sure as hell wasn't an electromagnetically induced hallucination. Bally PA, summer of 1968, it was a partly cloudy day and I was walking along a rural road alone. Ahead of me I noticed a flash, and saw a light descending towards the power lines in front of me. It was making a hissing and sputtering sound that got louder as it approached. It went right past me at the height of the power lines and stopped a few poles down where it poised itself right on top of the pole. I walked back towards it an when I was about to reach it it made a popping noise and dissappeared. Started a lifelong interest in unexplained aerial phenomenon.

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