Changing with the times?

[odinsgrl]

Spirituality seems to be at an all-time high, right now. New movements towards, understanding and acceptance, seem to be popping up all over the place. Old religions are coming back into play, and ones that seemed to obscured from the Western world (Buddisim, Hinduism) are gaining welcome favor.

My question is, do you think that the Organized Religions are on thier way out? Are the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim teachings, becoming outdated, in this modern world? Is the world headed for a new Spiritual Awakening, with a new way of thinking and acting?

If not, do you think that the Organized Religions should try and grow more with the times? (Letting priests marry again? Accepting Gay marriage?) Your veiws....

[Falco Rex]

I think the World in general is indeed heading in a new direction spiritually. However only for a time. The new religions will eventually become just as organized as the old. It's just the natural ebb and flow of the World..

If the old organized religions change themselves to fit the times, then really, they are becoming new religion in a sense. As time goes by their new canons will become dogma, and we're back to organized again..

[Cradle of Fish]

There will always be traditionalists who will never convert to the "new age" religions.

And "new age" isnt really correct, because the belief systems behind some of them is older than Christianity, which appears to be the mainstream religion of the world.

[Fluffybunny]

Is the world headed for a new Spiritual Awakening, with a new way of thinking and acting?

I think so...it will take time, but it will happen. You might want to read some of what Joseph Campbell has written on the subject. He studied comparative religion and myth, and has a very unique perspective on the subject of spirituality.

My question is, do you think that the Organized Religions are on thier way out? Are the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim teachings, becoming outdated, in this modern world?

Yes, I think that they are on their way out. Not that it will be anything that happens in our lifetimes, but as time goes by they will fade. Unless the major organized religions can adapt to allow for tolerance of others opinions and thoughts they are going to end up going the way of the dodo...It is a matter of time.

There are still billions of followers to those religions, but folks are tiring of strongarm tactics to gain more followers...The intollerance, the hatred...It seems to me that the world needs a change of spiritual values, the ones we have now don't seem to be serving us very well in our current world.

[odinsgrl]

Oh, I have read Joseph Campbell. He is quite a brilliant man. I have thouroughly enjoyed all of his books, and highly recommend them to anyone reading this thread!

Edited July 5, 2004 by odinsgrl

[FreyKade]

i think....the future would have religions the same as before major organised religions stared. like "mother nature" religions

[Grandpa Greenman]

My question is, do you think that the Organized Religions are on thier way out? Are the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim teachings, becoming outdated, in this modern world? Is the world headed for a new Spiritual Awakening, with a new way of thinking and acting?

Oh yes indeed. There are big changes coming, but (I think I have said this before)

Things are going to get worse, before they get better. The christians, jews and muslims are going to continue to battle and the Earth will suffer. Pagans need to prepare to pick up the pieces. All people will have to come together to save our exsistence on Earth. The Spiritual Awakening will come.

Joseph Campbell is a great read, I agree.

[aquatus1]

I think we already passed the new age religion boom back in the eighties and nineties. As for religions in general, yes, I strongly believe they are on their way out. As the educational level in a civilization rises, the amount of religious faith drops. Assuming we can get our educational standards where they need to be, I could easily predict the dissappearance of major world religions within three generations.

But then, considering our track record with education, it'll quite likely take longer.

[odinsgrl]

As the educational level in a civilization rises, the amount of religious faith drops. Assuming we can get our educational standards where they need to be, I could easily predict the dissappearance of major world religions within three generations.

I don't quite know what to make of that statement. Are you saying that only un-educated people are religious?

Um, I might just be taking that one wrong, boy I hope so. I don't know if I agree with it so much either. The education in the U.S., is definately sorely lacking, but I don't quite know what that has to do with religious beliefs.

[trublvr]

I think we already passed the new age religion boom back in the eighties and nineties. As for religions in general, yes, I strongly believe they are on their way out. As the educational level in a civilization rises, the amount of religious faith drops. Assuming we can get our educational standards where they need to be, I could easily predict the dissappearance of major world religions within three generations.

Actually, if you look beyond the West to the 2/3 world, traditional religions are at an all-time high. And if you are going to say that there is a correllation between educational standards and religion, I'd like to see you elaborate more on what you mean, Aquatus. I would encourage us to look beyond the West if we want to gain a healthy perspecitives on the kinds of trends we are talking about.

In the West, many new-age/pagan religions are currently all the rage, but even that can be a sticky trend. In the West right now, there is not so much a predominant religion as much as there is a predominant mood/sentiment concerning spirituality/religion. There are some actual religions (like Wicca) that encapsulate this mood in a more pointed way than others, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we are seeing tons of people become Wiccan. As a Wiccan friend of mine hipped me to, there are a lot of Wiccan sympathizers out there, but they don't necessarily want to adhere to the actual religion.

[aquatus1]

I don't quite know what to make of that statement. Are you saying that only un-educated people are religious?

Not at all. I am saying that the higher the level of one's education, the less chance (statistically) you are of professing a religious faith.

I'll have to look up the article where I saw this information...it's currently in the periodicals I keep in my study (still old fashioned that way, I suppose). In all cases, the jist of it, and what I agree with, is that civilizations which emphasize a course of study based on critical analysis and logical exploration tends to find it's people gradually turning away from the faith of the land. It's not a radical thing, by any means, but as rational explanations for certain things are accepted by one generation, that generation tends to not emphasize the importance of religion in that area. The next generation picks up on that, consciously or otherwise, and it continous till the majority of the people are simply playing lip service to the rituals of their faith. It is a short step from there to the abandonment of religion altogether.

I would agree that 2/3 of the world are still deeply into religion, but I would argue that the majority of those 2/3 are not receiving what we would term a comprehensive scientific education.

[odinsgrl]

I understand then. While statistics, show one thing, I myself, have seen examples from the other side.

My best friend in the whole world, is quite versed in physics, mathmatics, biology. She is one of those people that subscribes to Scientific American, and has read almost every book on mathmatical equation and therioes of physics.

I, have not the head for numbers, I do not think I'm ignorant or dumb, (I have quite a high I.Q.), I just do not comprehend numbers in the same way she does. And she is probably the MOST spiritual person I know. As a matter fact, she says the more she learns about the universe, the more she is conviced of a higher power. Not, "higher being", just a higher power. I, rely on faith.

[trublvr]

I don't quite know what to make of that statement. Are you saying that only un-educated people are religious?

Not at all. I am saying that the higher the level of one's education, the less chance (statistically) you are of professing a religious faith.

Aquatus,

While I agree that one's level of education can and does affect one's religious beliefs, I don't in any way believe that there is a correllation between general educational level and one's adherence to a religion. I'll go so far as to say that education can affect the way in which one believes/practices a religion, but that's about it.

I would agree that 2/3 of the world are still deeply into religion, but I would argue that the majority of those 2/3 are not receiving what we would term a comprehensive scientific education.

I work with college students, and from what I've seen of students from the 2/3 world, those who are able to get a higher education are much more educated than Westerners are, especially in the sciences. Now here's where you might have a point: Not as many of the average folks from the 2/3 world have the resources to receive such an education. This I have to grant you. But I don't think that we can say that had they been exposed to what you call a "scientific education" that there's a great chance they would have been non-religious.

First, neither of us can gauge what these folks would've done religiously had they received such an education. Second, our "scientific education" is not only rooted in pure empiricism and fact-finding; it is also rooted in a lot of materialism (in the purest meaning of that word) and other naturalist presuppositions that have more to do with philosophical/moral biases than the much-fabled sheer fact-finding. In the educational centers of the 2/3 world, one finds brilliant scientists and science students, but they differ from us in that they do not dichotomize the spiritual and the material. This doesn't mean they are non-scientific. Actually, it means that they are more realisitic.

But in terms of scientific methodology, there are a great many non-Westerners who remain Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist even after they receive comprehensive scientific educations. Some, after studying in the West, may renounce their faith (I have no numbers or anything to back this up, but I'm sure it happens). But this is not because they have finally been exposed to pure empiricism (which doesn't exist), but because they have bought into Western materialist philosophies.

[gsr]

No, organized religion may not be on the way out. Though organized religion may be in for a major transformation if events allow the following organizations to carry out their desires.

world council of church 1937 --

http://www.wcc-coe.org/

council on the world parliament of religions 1893 --

http://www.cpwr.org/

roman catholic church

http://www.newadvent.org/almanac/14388a.htm

http://www.catholicism.org/pages/ecumenic.htm

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook2.html#conc2

http://www.vatican.va/archive/index.htm

and some from the new age

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/New_W...World_Order.htm

[Grandpa Greenman]

As the educational level in a civilization rises, the amount of religious faith drops. Assuming we can get our educational standards where they need to be, I could easily predict the dissappearance of major world religions within three generations.

But then, considering our track record with education, it'll quite likely take longer.

You know what really blows this out of the water, Stephen Hawking believes in God.

I go to a lot of Pagan sites and I see a lot of very educated people, One site I go to has two PHd's in physics. Talk about interesting discussions. I guess I am not sure what religion you are refering to.

[aquatus1]

I'm not referring to specific people. Statistics are about everyone in general. Yes, I know a few Phd's who also believe in various Gods. I know even more who go to church out of sheer habit. The great majority of the people I know, are simply atheists. Not doggedly so, not crusaders against religion; they simply decided that they did not believe.

I would imagine that the quantity of believers vs. non-believers you personally know will vary depending on the group that you hang out with. This particular poll, however, was done through various universities around the United States (still haven't gotten around to looking for.

However, there seems to be some confusion over the issue of education affecting faith and affecting religion. Let me clarify my own personal stance on the subject. The higher up an individual person goes on the educational circuit, the more they are exposed to the inner workings of the physical world we inhabit. However, by the time they arrive at this level, they are at an age where changing personal beliefs is not (generaly speaking) a major, much less public, affair. In short, those who do go on believing and those who chose not to do not make a firm declaration of their intent, but rather fall into it over the course of their academic life. It becomes the most personal of choices because it is done through the action of living rather than as a choice one must decide to follow.

A person who does things in one way inevitably chooses to do them the same way again, and is comfortable with others doing it that way as well. A person who allowed their belief or lack thereof to develop without outside emphasis will be comfortable allowing their children or students to do the same. As the students grow and learn, the original religious emphasis, whatever it may have been for their teachers, is lessened for the student. They gradually grow and repeat the cycle, till the religious emphasis is no more than reference to mythological beliefs of an ancient people.

That is how a higher education will affect religion in general. How it affects an individual's religion I'll post a little later when I'm more up to it.