[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[The Puzzler]

Yes, I said 'think warehouse' because that is what the OLB indeed suggests.

But the Anglo-Saxon waraburchts have nothing to do with 'wares' but with 'inhabitants' and 'occupants'; maybe even 'warriors'.

Regardless of any of that, the meaning in Frisian would be here:

*war-a (1), afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Wahrer; ne. keeper; Vw.: s. bi-; E.: s. germ.

*warjan, sw. V., wehren, abhalten, schützen; idg. *øer- (5), V., schließen, decken,

schützen, retten, wehren, abwehren, Pokorny 1160

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-W.pdf

(Dutch bewaren = to keep) keeper burgt = burgt where they kept things (wares) ie; warehouses.

At the head of the south harbour lies the Waraburgt, built of stone, in which all kinds of clothes, weapons, shells, and horns are kept, which were brought by the sea-people from distant lands.

[Abramelin]

Regardless of any of that, the meaning in Frisian would be here:

*war-a (1), afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Wahrer; ne. keeper; Vw.: s. bi-; E.: s. germ.

*warjan, sw. V., wehren, abhalten, schützen; idg. *øer- (5), V., schließen, decken,

schützen, retten, wehren, abwehren, Pokorny 1160

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-W.pdf

(Dutch bewaren = to keep) keeper burgt = burgt where they kept things (wares) ie; warehouses.

At the head of the south harbour lies the Waraburgt, built of stone, in which all kinds of clothes, weapons, shells, and horns are kept, which were brought by the sea-people from distant lands.

But also:

abhalten, schließen, decken, schützen, retten, wehren, abwehren = to prevent, to close, to cover, to protect, to save (from harm), to defend, to fend off.

My point was only that the OLB does indeed suggest things were kept there, but the name is identical to Anglo-Saxon ones and there it means something like habitation, or stronghold inhabited by people

Maybe even a stronghold for soldiers/warriors (werar).

,

.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

But also:

abhalten, schließen, decken, schützen, retten, wehren, abwehren = to prevent, to close, to cover, to protect, to save (from harm), to defend, to fend off.

.

yeah, its an interesting word alright.

I think keeping to Frisian and the OLB when you can is the best bet.

Edited February 5, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

That may be the existing theory, but is it well argumented? I'm skeptical about it.

I think you interpret the quote too liberally.

It doesn't say it was hanging on the wall, just that they had the plate (probably just in the book).

OK, maybe it was just that plate inside the book you posted about.

[Knul]

About 'suppression' of the OLB.

If I would have children, I would not want their minds to be poisoned with lies and nonsense.

So if I would believe that the OLB was fake, I would not want a schoolteacher to teach my kids that it is true.

It would needlessly confuse them.

I would want him to shut up and leave.

So I perfectly understand why and respect that OLB-'advocates' have been suppressed.

. . . . . .

But now it's time to evaluate whether the arguments used to reject it were strong and sincere.

Jensma wrote that he did not include a list of personal and geographic names, because that would only encourage reading it as if it were true.

What was he affraid of?

That some readers might start believing in its authenticity?

Did he realise that his (hoax) arguments were not strong enough?

I was very disappointed, that Jensma did not include a register of personal and geographical names in his book. However, I do not think that he did not, because he was afraid about his theory, but because there are too many uncertain identifications like Lumkamakja, Buda, Aken, Kerenak, Gosa Makonta, and so on. I have asked Abramelin and you to make such a register and the answer was that there were too many disagreements.

[The Puzzler]

Here's the cross over to warrior:

The verb of wara (keeper).

war-ia 23, wer-ia, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. wahren, bewahren, sichern, einhalten,

wahrnehmen, bekleiden, sorgen für, schützen, einstehen für, aufpassen auf,

gewährleisten; ne. keep (V.), perform, protect, be liable for; ÜG.: lat. (cðstædia) L

17; Vw.: s. bi-, for-, ðt-, wi-ther-; Hw.: s. war-a-nd-e; vgl. got. *waræn, an. vara (2),

ae. warian, anfrk. waræn, as. waron* (2), ahd. *waræn (2)?; Q.: R, B, E, W, L 17;

E.: germ. *waræn, sw. V., hüten, beobachten, achtgeben, wahren?; idg. *øer- (5),

V., schließen, decken, schützen, retten, wehren, abwehren, Pokorny 1160; W.:

nfries. wearjen, V., wahren, sichern; W.: saterl. waria, V., wahren, sichern; W.:

nnordfries. ware, V., wahren, sichern; L.: Hh 124b, Hh 181, Rh 1127a

Also protect/or = warrior - waria/weria

[Abramelin]

The "Etymologyonline" site has it all on one page:

warrior

c.1300, from O.N.Fr. werreieor (O.Fr. guerreor) "a warrior, one who wages war," from werreier "wage war," from werre (see war).

warren

late 14c., "piece of land enclosed for breeding beasts and fowls," from Anglo-Fr. and O.N.Fr. warenne, O.Fr. garenna "game park," possibly from Gaulish *varenna "enclosed area," related to *varros "post." Or the O.Fr. forms may derive from the prp. of O.Fr. warir "defend, keep," from the Gmc. root *war- "to protect, guard" (source of O.E. warian "take care;" see warrant (n.)). Later esp. "piece of land for breeding of rabbits" (c.1400), which led to the transf. sense of "cluster of densely populated living spaces" (1640s).

ware (n.)

"manufactured goods, goods for sale," O.E. waru, probably originally "object of care, that which is kept in custody," from P.Gmc. *waro (cf. Swed. vara, Dan. vare, O.Fris. were, M.Du. were, Du. waar, M.H.G., Ger. ware "goods"); related to O.E. wær "aware, cautious" (see wary).

war

late O.E. (c.1050), wyrre, werre, from O.N.Fr. werre "war" (Fr. guerre), from Frank. *werra, from P.Gmc. *werso (cf. O.S. werran, O.H.G. werran, Ger. verwirren "to confuse, perplex"). Cognates suggest the original sense was "to bring into confusion." There was no common Germanic word for "war" at the dawn of historical times. O.E. had many poetic words for "war" (guð, heaðo, hild, wig, all common in personal names), but the usual one to translate L. bellum was gewin "struggle, strife" (related to win). Sp., Port., It. guerra are from the same source; Romanic peoples turned to Germanic for a word to avoid L. bellum because its form tended to merge with bello- "beautiful." The verb meaning "to make war on" is recorded from mid-12c.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=war&searchmode=none

[Abramelin]

But they don't have our so-called 'Arabic' (European style) numbers in them, do they?

It's not easy to find an online example, that if for sure, lol.

Here's an example of a (German) lesson in these numerals:

A German manuscript page teaching use of (indo-)Arabic numerals (Talhoffer Thott, 1459).

http://maslaha.org/category/article-types/featured-article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Arabic_numerals

Edited February 5, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Otharus, I found a blog (or "knol") about the origin of Arabic numerals, an interesting theory based on some Arab legend:

http://knol.google.com/k/%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A/arabic-numerals/9vwvrqbn016q/2#

The English is a bit crappy, but it will do.

The invention, according to what I understand of the last line, of these numerals is 792 AD.

.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

OK, I hit upon something of which I first thought "WOW!!

But slowly it dawned on me.... heh... that it (still) fits the topic of this thread perfectly.

A LINEAR B TABLET FROM HEIDELBERG

During the violent rainstorms that accompanied the 5th International Aegaeum conference in Heidelberg, one of the pinacologically minded participants, namely myself, was walking along the river near the congress hall and happened to notice in the eroded bank what looked like an irregular fragment of accidentally fired clay lying face down. I picked it up, turned it over, and-to my astonishment-read the following text in Mycenaean Linear B. Such a momentous discovery certainly should have a bearing on questions like the extent of Aegean trade contacts with northern Europe during the Late Bronze Age, the dissemination of writing, and even the uses to which Linear B writing was put. Unfortunately in my tremendous excitement the slippery document popped, like a wet soap bar, out of my trembling hands and fell into the murky and rapid river waters. Although lost forever in corpore, it lives on in mente, and I here produce a faithful drawing, transcription, and translation with commentary.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, I found a blog (or "knol") about the origin of Arabic numerals, an interesting theory based on some Arab legend:

http://knol.google.com/k/%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A/arabic-numerals/9vwvrqbn016q/2#

The English is a bit crappy, but it will do.

The invention was done, according to what I understand of the last line, of these numerals is 792 AD.

.

Here's a whole book about it (184 pages):

The Hindu-Arabic numerals (1911)

Smith, David Eugene, 1860-1944; Karpinski, Louis Charles, 1878-1956, joint author

http://www.archive.org/details/hinduarabicnumer00smitrich

.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

OK, back to the OLB.

According to the Fryans of the OLB their script was distorted beyond recognition by the people that learned their script.

And how about those numerals? Would the Phoenicians, the Greek, and the Romans really have used their own cumbersome numerals instead of the Hindu-Arabic numerals.. or Godfrêiath's (the OLB Wit-Kening)?

Would these peoples really change something very practical for something very UNpractical?

I don't think so.

We all know that the Phoenicians were merchants, traders.

The impression that I get from reading their travels and exploits is that if they smelled profit they would go for it, wherever it may have gotten them.

No doubt a people like them would use the most practical way to calculate prices when they were busy with some bargain.

Btw: the Phoenician script is VERY readable, and most of all: found many times

But we - dumbasses that we are - must believe that the only proof of the OLB script showed up in some city in The Netherlands, and NOWHERE else, and that any other trace of their script (on stone or on paper) either was whiped out by natural causes or my fanatic Christian monks.

You buy that? I don't.

(Best thing to do is refresh this page every minute or so because I tend to edit like crazy, lol)

.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

I was very disappointed, that Jensma did not include a register of personal and geographical names in his book. However, I do not think that he did not, because he was afraid about his theory, but because there are too many uncertain identifications like Lumkamakja, Buda, Aken, Kerenak, Gosa Makonta, and so on.

Here is the literal text:

Goffe Jensma did not include an index to the OLB, because this "would encourage a realistic reading attitude" (!).

"Een index op het boek zou deze realistische leeshouding slechts aanwakkeren en is om die reden niet opgenomen."

(Het Oera Linda-boek 2006, page 59)

Edited February 6, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Would it not be nice if we also had a Western/West Sea?

Lo and behold: we have !!

I found a different "Westerzee":

Men vindt nog een spoor van herinnering aan den loop des IJssels door het West-Friesland bij Winsemius, blz.166, op het jaar 1237: "De wint waeyde eerst uyt den westen, daernae uyt zuiden ende zuidt-oosten, en vulde alzoo den IJssel ende 't Vlie, met de Griften, dat een groot deel van Frieslandt, ten westen gelegen, onder liep." Toen, namelijk, had de IJssel zijnen uitloop nagenoeg midden tusschen Staveren en Medenblik, en viel daar in de Westerzee, of de kom, die in 1170 ontstaan was, toen "alle het land tuszen Tekxzel, Meedenblyk en Stavoren van 't water wierde in geslockt."

Quote from: "Over den loop der Rivieren door het land der Friezen en Batavieren in het Romeinsche Tijdperk" by Dr. J.G. Ottema in De Vrije Fries 4 (1846) p.125.

[Otharus]

Abe thanks for the info and links about the numerals.

I am not convinced that our cyphers have evolved from 'Indo-Arabic' ones, but will leave a discussion about that for later, as I don't think I can produce hard arguments now and have other very interesting things to study.

Well, at least we finally have traced those Alhambra decorations.

[Abramelin]

Here is the literal text:

Yeah, I understand that sounds a bit 'strange', to say the least.

It's almost if Jensma is afraid people are able to make up their own mind about the book.

[Otharus]

In his 2006 book, Jensma suggests on pages 143 and 195 (OLB pages 36 and 62) that the makers of the OLB have created the etymology for Nehalennia = NY.HEL.LÉNJA = bringer of new light.

I have found an older source where this etymology is suggested:

"Schatkamer der Nederlandsse Oudheden" (1711) by Ludolf Smids

[Abramelin]

I found a different "Westerzee":

Quote from: "Over den loop der Rivieren door het land der Friezen en Batavieren in het Romeinsche Tijdperk" by Dr. J.G. Ottema in De Vrije Fries 4 (1846) p.125.

OK, so it's even closer to Friesland, the flooded area between Texel, Stavoren and Medemblik.

[Otharus]

Yeah, I understand that sounds a bit 'strange', to say the least.

It's almost if Jensma is afraid people are able to make up their own mind about the book.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.

[Abramelin]

In his 2006 book, Jensma suggests on pages 143 and 195 (OLB pages 36 and 62) that the makers of the OLB have created the etymology for Nehalennia = NY.HEL.LÉNJA = bringer of new light.

I have found an older source where this etymology is suggested:

"Schatkamer der Nederlandsse Oudheden" (1711) by Ludolf Smids

So Bilderdijk must have known about that etymology:

Menno, I found the source of this disinformation: it's the 18th century, rather 'creative' Dutch writer Willem Bilderdijk:

Geschiedenis des vaderlands, Volume 1 Door Willem Bilderdijk

http://books.google.nl/books?id=x4o2AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=bilderdijk+nehalennia&source=bl&ots=7bzNbvZPkA&sig=rLLcv-icZ1PZWWYU6OZcNZGLDP8&hl=nl&ei=iIRCTqLhEoij-gbM7ey9CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

A°. 15. Germanicus de zoon van Drusus, maar zachter van aart, was op zijn Germanischen tocht, ter wrake van Varus ondernomen, ook hier omstreeks verschenen. Hij zakte met een vloot de Eems af, en deed dus de Friesche kusten aan, waar hij veel leed, en had groot berouw over deze tocht. Hij werd bij de Batavieren bemind, zoo als ook zijn gemalin Agrippina; die het onzeker is of zich bij de Batavieren dan wel in den omtrek onthouden heeft. Kaligula bracht daar zijne kindsheid door, en behield hieruit eene toeneiging tot dit land, die hem naderhand bewoog tot een reis waar in hij zich belachlijk aanstelde.

Of hij de toren gesticht hebbe der plaats, die de visschers nog lang de toren van Kalla noemden, een weinig ten Noorden van Katwijk, is even onzeker, als of 't Huis te Britten ter inwoning aan hem en zijne moeder gediend heeft, het geen tot een wapenplaats voor de Romeinen bestemd schijnt te zijn geweest, tegen de Britten, wier onderwerping toen bedoeld werd. 't Spaansche woord Callao kan hier wel betrekking toe hebben.

Intusschen had de overtocht van Cezar naar Brittanje eene betrekking van koophandel met de Bataven of liever (zoo men de zaak in den grond beschouwt) met de Romeinen die zich hier bevonden, te weeg gebracht; (de Romeinen waren in dien tijd reeds zeer aan het drijven van koophandel overgegeven, als uit de oude Schrijvers genoeg blijkt; maar de Noordlijke volken verachteden dien, tot zij den Romeinschen geest in dit opzigt aannamen), die door schranderer en beschaafder volk met een onbeschaafder en onwetender volk gedreven, het eerste verrijken moest. Dit blijkt uit de oude gedenkstukken, waar bij de kooplieden geloften betaalden, wegens hun behouden reizen en behaalde voordeden en winsten. Ook uit de fora die er hier en daar bestonden, en naar het voorkomt, eerst in 't oude Megen plaats hadden.

Hier toe behooren de overblijfsels betrekkelijk de Nehalennia en den Hercules Magusanus. Van daar dat Kaligula zijn oude huisraad naar herwaart deed voeren en met eene onmatige winst verkoopen. Maar van daar ook, dat de Landvoogden (want dus merkten de Bevelhebbers der Romeinsche Castra zich aan) de algemeene zucht der Romeinen tot afpersing en vi uitplondering van het volk waarbij zij gezonden waren hier allengs begonnen in 't werk te stellen.

Read it in 'plain text' here:

http://books.google.nl/books?pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=bilderdijk%20nehalennia&sig=rLLcv-icZ1PZWWYU6OZcNZGLDP8&ei=iIRCTqLhEoij-gbM7ey9CQ&ct=result&id=x4o2AAAAMAAJ&ots=7bzNbvZPkA&output=text

Although he doesn't say Nehalennia and Brittenburg have anything to do with eachother, maybe the 1912 English writer wrongly connected these names.

I also found the source for Nehalennia being a moon goddess: it's based on one of Bilderdijk's etymologies:

(from page 47 and onwards)

Kunnen we ons het geringe enthousiasme van de commissie

Scheltema-Van Lennep voor deze auteurs wel voorstellen, moeilijker

zal het ons vallen haar instemming met Bilderdijk te delen.

Terwijl Pougens nl. meende, dat Nehalennia betekent Nicke (poelgeest,

waternymf ) van de Hal (markt), oordeelde Bilderdijk dat de

naam beduidt Nieuwe (halve) Maan: „neha” is Zeeuwse spelling

voor „nea”, en „lenne” is de halve maan, vergelijk grieks óåìÜîè.

De commissie is het hier mee eens, en licht nog toe: „Van lenne

komt misschien leenen, zoo als van maan naar alle waarschijnlijkheid

manen, wijl het bij de oude Volkeren de gewoonte was van

maand tot maand te leenen en met de nieuwe maan het geleende,

of. althans de renten, in te vorderen” 2.

http://images.tresoar.nl/bibl-collectie/Hermeneus/Jaargang%2028/2803.pdf

Bilderdijk suggested that 'Neha' meant "new/nea" according to the Zeeuw's dialect, and also that "lenne" meant 'half moon', again according to that same dialect, in short: (Zeeuw's:) Neha Lenne = New Half Moon.

++++++++++

EDIT:

What I found interesting is from another quote from the second article (just before the text I already quoted):

"„Neptunus bewoont de zee. Hom. O 190, (...) Naieihala. Hij is dus een

Deus Nehalennius, en de godinnen zijn Deae Nehalenniae”

In English:

Neptune lives in the sea. Homer/Odyssey 190, (...) Naiei hala. So he is a Deus Nehalennius, and the goddesses are Deae Nehalenniae"

What the article doesn't say is that Nehalennia was often depicted accompanied with Neptune at her side.

Also that close to the submerged temple of Nehalennia, near "Ganuanta" (Veere) statues of Neptune had been dragged up from the sea floor.

But in whatever way they try to explain the name Nehalennia, not anything even hints at her being the OLB Min-Erva (= the Roman Minerva)...

If what I quoted and said in this edit is true, then maybe Nehalennia meant nothing but simply "(a) Goddess of the Sea", and that that name was given to her by Romans (using their rendering of ancient Homerian Greek) because her original name was gobbledeegook to those Romans, and thus we can forget about all those etymologies trying to explain her name using Old Frisian (>> OLB), Germanic, Celtic or Phoenician/Hebrew.

[Otharus]

So Bilderdijk must have known about that etymology:

Bilderdijk (1756-1831) only mentioned the "new-moon" meaning, not "new-light".

So if he knew the 1711 source, he only remembered part of it.

[Otharus]

At second thought...

hel-licht = heel-licht = vol-licht = vol-maan?

Could "hel" in the meaningh of "bright", be related to "heel" = whole = full (moon)?

[Abramelin]

Bilderdijk (1756-1831) only mentioned the "new-moon" meaning, not "new-light".

So if he knew the 1711 source, he only remembered part of it.

I don't think so: "new moon" and "new light" are equivalent:

http://www.multilingualarchive.com/ma/dewiki/en/Neulicht

http://ascentofsafed.com/cgi-bin/ascent.cgi?Name=roshchodesh-ng

[Abramelin]

At second thought...

hel-licht = heel-licht = vol-licht = vol-maan?

Could "hel" in the meaningh of "bright", be related to "heel" = whole = full (moon)?

Any moon goddess thoughout history was always depicted with or as a crescent moon.

[Otharus]

Anyway, we have established, that the etymology Nehalennia => NY-HEL => new light is not a 19th century invention, as Jensma thought, but older than 1711.