[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Abramelin]

I hope someone is willing to read the document because my Latin is a 'bit' rusty.

But the next line looks quite interesting (assuming Google Translator did not make a mess out of it):

pro mille et quadringentis libris vendiderunt libere et absolute

for fourteen hundred books sold and absolutely free.

Fourteen hundred books???

.

OK, I tried to do it myself using Google Translator:

Aldermans ac universitas in Groninge omnibus presentem paginam inspecturis salutem in domino.

Cum secundum varietatem temporis statuta varientur humana ideo provida modernorum decrevit industria, quique sui temporis ista facta describere et ea sic perpetue memorie commandare.

Unde notum esse volumus universis quod Alfgerdis vidua et duo filii eius Occo et Gergardus cives nostri bona ipsorum quae Jesse habuerunt cum omnibus attinentiis suis quae bona Ebedingonum nuncupantur conventui de Jesse pro mille et quadringentis libris vendiderunt libere et absolute.

Ne vero inde ulla ambiguitas oriatur hanc paginam sigilli nostri munimine fecimus roborari.

Nomina vero testium qui presentes erant hec sunt: Willem Hamingus, Occo Hornecinge, Nicolaus Papa, Thidmarus, Uuddi, Remgerus aurifaber, Dodo Ebbinga scultetus, Ado, Alaydus Lupus, Andreas Oircke, Sigebertus, dominus Jacobus, deinde Thizo, domini Bartoldi Huginge filius, Laurencius, Henricus, Egbertus decanus, Jacobus Lupus, Alardus filius domini Alburgis, Brundo filius domini Enonis, Herdricus de Lare, Rodolfus de Bilrebeke, Gerardus Bogecinga, iuvenis Eno, Winricus domini Johannis filius et omnes aldermanni et cives nostri et cives de Heltmen.

Acta sunt hec Groninge anno domini MCCXLV, XVIII kalendas decembris.

In the university (??) of Groningen, and all the aldermen of the present page, greetings in the Lord.

Statutes vary with time according to the variety of human reason in providing decreased modern industry, all of the time this was done to describe and commend them in perpetual memory.

So we all know that the Alfgerdis widow and her two sons Occo and Gergardus, our citizens, have sold to the convent of Jesse all their goods, called the Ebedingon Estate, including 1400 books, and absolutely free (= not forced).

Do not, however, let arise arise any ambiguity from this page, we have had confirmed protection of our seal.

The names of witnesses who were present, these are: Willem Hamingus, Occo Hornecinge, Nicholas Papa, Thidmarus, Uuddi, Remgerus the goldsmith, Dodo Ebbinga the chosen representative, Ado, Alaydus Wolf, Andreas Oircke, Sigebertus, Lord Jacobus, then Thizo, son of Lord Bartoldi Huginge, Lawrencius, Henricus, Dean Egbert, Jacob Wolf, Alard the son of Lord Alburgis, Brundo son of Lord Enon, Herdricus van Lare, Rodolfus van Bilrebeke, Gerardus Bogecinga, a young man Eno, Winricus son of Lord Johannis and all the aldermen and citizens of our city and the citizens of Heltmen.

These are the reports of the public acts of Groningen in the year 1245, 18 December.

.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

" the Alfgerdis widow and her two sons Occo and Gergardus"

And the OLB "Okke" had a father called "Hidde".

But how do we know this "Hidde" was his father and not his mother instead?

Hidde

Hidde is een Nederlandse meisjesnaam. Het betekent `Sterk verkorte vorm van namen met Germaanse `Hild` (strijd), de moedige heldin`.

http://www.encyclo.nl/begrip/hidde

Hidde is a Dutch girl's name.

Strongly shortened form of Germanic names with "Hild" (battle), the brave heroine

Hidde tobinomath oera Linda

Hidde tebij(ge)naamd Oera Linda

Hidde, nicknamed Over the Linden

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#aa

It was probably just a nickname, and not Hidde's real family name.

++++++++

*bi-nam-ad?, *bi-nom-ad?, afries., Adj.: Vw.: s. for-a-; E.: s. bi-nam-ia; L.: Hh 30a,

Hh 157

bi-nam-ia 9, bi-nom-ia, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. benennen; ne. name (V.); Hw.: s.

un-bi-nam-d, bi-næm-ia; Q.: S, B, W; E.: s. bi-, nam-ia; W.: saterl. benamia, V.,

benennen; L.: Hh 74b, Rh 642a

bi-nam-n-a 1 und häufiger?, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. benennen; ne. name (V.); E.:

s. bi-, nam-n-a; L.: Hh 75a

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-B.pdf

That's the problem with Germans: they think we only speak some sort of 'bad German', lol.

bi-nam-ad / bi-nam-ia / bi-nam-n-a could be perfectly translated with the Dutch "bijnaam"/ "bij(ge)naamd" or in English: nickname/nicknamed.

Bij-naam, an extra name, another name... not your official name.

+++++++

A couple of current Dutch verbs:

benoemen = to appoint, to name, to nominate, to call, to denominate, to place.

benamen = to name.

.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I know many visitors - including the one whose book we have been discussing (based on the book we discuss most of the times) - do not like this wordfk, and I don't either.

But it's a step-by-step process, and just imagine I will find a Hidde Alfgerdis/Alfgerda, mother of a son called Occo/Okke, a woman who sold her whole estate including 1400 books to some convent.

FOURTEEN HUNDRED BOOKS.

Well, they may not have been real books as we know them today, but jeesh, these people were not avarage peasants.

[Van Gorp]

Van Gorp, this is an international forum with English as language to converse.

Maybe Diets was some sort of lingua franca more than 1000 years ago, but it isn't now.

You could as well start using latin.

And "Armorem" was based on VandeMaele's mistake: the Lex Frisionum never mentions it.

And what's wrong with "that Hebrew story"? If you didn't forget everything you learned in highschool, then you should know the Jews travelled along with Phoenician and Greek merchants and settled everywhere around the Med. The name they used for themselves or people like them was "GOLA".

Then, the Phoenicians and Jews were as close as 2 fingers of one hand, plus that already in ancient times many Jews lived in Sidon, Phoenicia.

.

Yo Abe,

I wasn’t aware of that ‘Rule’ :-)

If that tongue might slip again in the thread: people can maybe consider it as a free lesson Dütch, the remainder will understand.

Voor mij is’t just een ‘Forum’ -> Latin word as mostly assumed, though every body can uderstand

‘Voor-om’ you should go

To say what you want to say

Could be the meaning, some would say

But I’ll certainly take your advice and try my best.

Little intermezzo, you couldn’t make it up, commical:

Reason why OLB was set on paper

What preceded

Just a bit more concerning Delahaye:

What made you perhaps convince that what he had to say was wrong?

It’s not the case that his ideas does not explain a lot of things (or proven to be wrong), yes he has been chasen away.

I was rathered amased by his thourough research (evenso Ijpenlaan) in original oorkondes and historical evidence.

And that is just a point what you also mentionned:

most what we ‘learned’ from school has not been ‘investigated’ by that many people as we tend to think.

It has only been ‘transmitted’ to us. You received good points if you just could re-iterate what was said to you.

Has any of us seen the originals of ‘Tacitus’, ‘Strabo’, … ?

Guess not, but that’s what most of us automaticcaly believe ‘Tacitus has written that …’.

At the time these ‘ancient’ scripts popped up, monks were in good shape writing.

Scaliger in Leiden was/is not trusted by many scolars who dare to think.

The 'accepted' timeline we still 'use', was that of almost one man!

What A GENIUS he most have been. All events (over the globe), nicely put together in a convenient timeline.

Hebrew story I meaned that many words/tales/places are linked to a kind of mythical Hebrew past, as transmitted in school.

Why can’t they just say that Jesus comes from ‘hIE iS hOgh’ :-)

Just a thought ... good we can have one

[Abramelin]

You know Van Gorp, we have been discussing in this thread for years now, and you bring up an excellent point: "Has any of us seen the originals of ‘Tacitus’, ‘Strabo’, … ?"

Well, I haven't and I think no one here has. I think we only know of their works because the Muslim Arabs started translating the works of ancient Roman and Greek writers during the Middle Ages, then European writers translated their translation (back) into Latin, and so on.

I will go look online to search for info about the originals.

But the point remains: the copies (?) of these Roman and Greek works of literature were available for many centuries, and so also in the 19th century.

==

Lol, the videos were funny, but I am quite sure only Otharus, Knul, Alewyn, you and I (and visitors from Belgium, the Netherlands and South Africa can understand it (with or without subtitles).

==

Scaliger: we have talked about the guy for many pages, and he was a genius indeed. The 'time line' you mentioned is based on his interpretation of the Bible, corrected by what he knew from ancient Roman and Greek writers, and astronomy.

And there are several of these Biblically based time lines around, not just Scaliger's.

==

"Hebrew story I meaned that many words/tales/places are linked to a kind of mythical Hebrew past, as transmitted in school."

Really? They taught me differenlty apparently.

==

Delahaye: I remember I told Otharus that this guy was once sort of a 'hero' for me. The guy was no idiot, and I never said he was wrong with every of his ideas. His ideas about Dorestad and Nijmegen are still heavily discussed, but his ideas that a large part of the early medieval history of the Netherlands actually took place in Belgium no longer hold. That was based on the socalled Dunkirk Transgressions, a theory science has dropped because of later finds. So he used science to prove his point, but science eventually catched up on him and his theories.

.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDA" (statues or images) of "AFGODA" (idols or false gods) - fragment 9 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[115/10] - [116/05]: Frethorik's book (ca. 300 BC); another flood disaster

THI MÁGÍ BOGADE VPPA SINRA SNÔDHÉD.

MEN JRTHA SKOLD.IM THÁNA

THÀT HJU NÉN MÁGÍ NER AFGODA TO LÉTA NE MACHTE TO THÉRE HÉLGE SÉTA

HWÉRUT HJU FRYA BÉRADE.

~ ~ .

ÉVIN SA THET WILDE HORS SINA MÀNNA SKED.

NÉI THÀT HETH SINA RIDDER GERS.FALLICH MÁKAD HETH.

ÉVIN SÁ SKEDDE JRTHA HJRA WALDA ÀND BERGA.

RIN.STRÁMA WRDON OVIRA FJELDA SPRÉD.

SÉ KOKADE.

BERGA SPYDON NÉI THA WOLKUM

ÀND HWAD HJA SPYTH HÉDE.

SWIKTON THA WOLKA WITHER VP JRTHA.

~

BY T.ANFANG THERE ARNE MÔNATH

NIGADE JRTHA NORTHWARD

HJU SÉG DEL.

ÔL LÉGOR ÀND LÉGOR.

~

ANNA WOLFA.MÔNATH

LÉIDON THA DÉNE MARKA FON FRYA.S LÁND VNDER NE SÉ BIDOBBEN.

THA WALDA THÉR BYLDA IN WÉRON

WRDON VPHÍVATH ÀND THÉR WINDUM SPEL.

THET JÉR ÀFTER KÉM FROST INNA HERDE MÔNATH

ÀND LÉID ÔLD FRYA.S.LÁND VNDER EN PLÔNKE SKUL.

~

IN SELLA MÔNATH

KÉM STORNE.WIND UT.ET NORTHA WÉI.

MITH FORANDE BERGA FON ISE ÀND STÉNUM.

THÁ SRING KÉM

HÍF JRTHA HJRA SELVA VP.

ISE SMOLT AWÉI.

EBBE KÉM

ÀND THA WALDA MITHA BYLDUM DRÉVON NÉI SÉ.

- - - - -

Ottema p.159

De Magy verhief zich op zijne slimheid.

Maar Irtha zoude hem toonen,

dat zij geen Magy noch afgoden mocht toelaten tot de heilige schoot,

waaruit zij Frya baarde.

Even als het wilde ros zijne manen schudt,

nadat het zijn berijder in het gras geworpen [grasvallig gemaakt] heeft,

even zoo schudde Irtha hare wouden en bergen.

Rivieren werden over de velden gespreid.

De zee kookte.

Bergen spuwden vuur naar de wolken,

en wat zij gespuwd hadden,

slingerden de wolken weder op aarde.

Bij den aanvang van Arnemaand (oogstmaand)

neigde de aarde noordwaarts

en zeeg neder,

al lager en lager.

In de Wolvenmaand (wintermaand)

lagen de lage marken van Fryasland onder de zee bedolven.

De wouden, daar beelden in waren,

werden opgeheven en een spel der winden.

Het jaar daarop kwam vorst in de Hardemaand (louwmaand)

en legde oud Fryasland onder een plank (ijsveld) verscholen.

In Sellemaand (sprokkelmaand)

kwam stormwind uit het noorden weg,

mede voerende bergen van ijs en steenen.

Toen springvloed kwam,

hief de aarde zich op.

Het ijs smolt weg.

Ebbe kwam

en de wouden met de beelden dreven naar zee.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.159

The Magy prided himself upon his cunning,

but Irtha made him know

that she would not tolerate any Magy or idol on the holy bosom

that had borne Frya.

As a wild horse tosses his mane

after he has thrown [made] his rider [grass-falling],

so Irtha shook her forests and her mountains.

Rivers flowed over the land;

the sea raged;

mountains spouted fire to the clouds,

and what they vomited forth

the clouds flung upon the earth.

At the beginning of the Arnemaand (harvest month)

the earth bowed towards the north,

and sank down

lower and lower.

In the Welvenmaand (winter month)

the low lands of Fryasland were buried under the sea.

The woods in which the images were,

were torn up and scattered by the wind.

The following year the frost came in the Hardemaand (Louwmaand, January),

and laid Fryasland concealed under a sheet of ice.

In Sellemaand (Sprokkelmaand, February)

there were storms of wind from the north,

driving mountains of ice and stones.

When the spring-tides came

the earth raised herself up,

the ice melted;

with the ebb

the forests with the images drifted out to sea.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDA" (statues or images) of "AFGODA" (idols or false gods) - fragment 10 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p.[132/21] - [133/13]: Frethorik's book (ca. 300 BC); observation about superstition

HWERSA IMMAN EN BYLD MÁKATH ÀFTER ÉNNEN VRSTURVEN

ÀND THET LIKT

SÁ LÁWATH HJA

THÀT THENE GÁST THES VRSTURVENE THÉR INNE FÁRATH.

THÉRVR HÀVATH HJA ALLE BYLDA VRBURGEN.

FON FRYA. FÀSTA. MÉDÉA. THJANJA. HELLÉNJA ÀND FÉLO ÔTHERA.

HWERTH THÉR EN BERN EBERN

SÁ KVMATH THA SIBBA ET SÉMNE

ÀND BIDDATH AN FRYA

THÀT HJU HJARA FÁMKES MÉI KVMA LÉTA

THÀT BERN TO SÉENANDE.

HÀVON HJA BÉDEN.

SA NE MÉI NIMMAN HIM RORA NI HÉRA LÉTA.

KVMT ET BERN TO GRÁJANDE.

ÀND HALT THIT EN STVNDE AN

ALSA IS THÀT EN KWÁD TÉKEN

ÀND MAN IS AN FORMODA

THÀT THJU MÀM HORDOM DÉN HETH.

THÉRVR HÀV IK AL ÀRGE THINGA SJAN.

~

KVMT ET BERN TO SLÉPANDE

SÁ IS THÀT EN TÉKEN

THÀT THA FÁMKES VRET KVMEN SEND.

LAKT ET INNA SLÉP

SÁ HÀVON THA FÁMKES

THÀT BERN LUK TO SÉIT.

ÔLON LÁWATH HJA AN BOSA GÁSTA.

HEXNA. KOLLA. ULDERMANKES. ÀND ELFUN

AS JEF HJA FON THA FINNA WEI KÉMEN.

- - - - -

Ottema p.181

Wanneer iemand een beeld maakt naar een afgestorvene

en het gelijkt,

dan gelooven zij,

dat de geest des overledene daarin vaart.

Daarom hebben zij alle beelden verborgen

van Frya, Fâsta, Medea, Thiania [Diana], Hellenia en vele andere.

Wordt er een kind geboren,

dan komen de nabestaanden te zamen,

en bidden tot Frya,

dat zij hare dienaressen mag laten komen,

om het kind te zegenen.

Als zij gebeden hebben,

mag niemand zich verroeren noch laten hooren.

Begint het kind te schreijen

en houdt dat eene poos aan,

dan is dat een kwaad teeken,

en men is in vermoeden,

dat de moeder overspel [hoerdom] bedreven heeft.

Daarvan heb ik al erge dingen gezien.

Begint het kind te slapen,

dan is dat een teeken,

dat de dienaressen gekomen zijn.

Lacht het in den slaap,

dan hebben de dienaressen

het kind geluk toegezegd.

Vervolgens gelooven zij aan booze geesten,

heksen, kollen, aardmannetjes en elfen,

alsof zij van de Finnen afstammen.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.181

When they make a statue of a dead person

they believe

that the spirit of the departed enters into it;

therefore they have hidden their statues

of Frya, Fâsta, Medea, Thiania [Diana], Hellenia, and many others.

When a child is born,

all the relatives come together

and pray to Frya

to send her servants

to bless the child.

When they have prayed,

they must neither move nor speak.

If the child begins to cry,

and continues some time,

it is a bad sign,

and they suspect

that the mother has committed adultery [whoredom].

I have seen very bad things come from that.

If the child sleeps,

that is a good sign—

Frya's servants are come.

If it laughs in its sleep,

the servants

have promised it happiness.

Moreover, they believe in bad spirits,

witches, sorcerers, dwarfs, and elves,

as if they descended from the Finns.

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDA" (statues or images) of "AFGODA" (idols or false gods) - fragment 11 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p. [138/29] - [140/18]: writings from Dela a.k.a. Hellénja, about Jes-us (ca. 600 BC) added by Wiljo (ca. 300 BC)

THAHWILA JES.US LÉRE VR JRTHA FOR.

GVNGON THA FALXA PRESTERA NÉI.T LÁND SINRA BERTA

SIN DÁD AVBÉRA.

HJA SÉIDON THÀT HJA FON SINUM FRIUNDUM WÉRON.

HJA BÁRADON GRÁTE ROWA.

TO RENNANDE HJARA KLÁTHAR TO FLARDUM

ÀND TO SKÉRANDE HJARA HOLA KÁL.

INNA HÔLA THÉRA BERGA GVNGON HJA HÉMA.

THACH THÉRIN HÉDON HJA HJARA SKÀT BROCHT.

THÉR BINNA MÁKADON HJA BYLDON ÀFTER JES-US.

THESSA BYLDON JÁVON HJA ANTHA VNÀRG THÀNKANDA LJUDA.

TO LONGA LERSTA SÉIDON HJA THÀT JES-US EN DROCHTEN WÉRE.

THÀT.I THÀT SELVA AN HJAM BILÉDEN HÉDE.

ÀND THÀT ALLE THÉR AN HIM. ÀND AN SINA LÉRA LÁWA WILDE

NÉIMELS IN SIN KÉNINGKRIK KVME SKOLDE.

HWÉR FRÜ IS ÀND NOCHTA SEND ~

VRMITES HJA WISTON THÀT JES-US ÀJEN THA RIKA TO FJELDA TÁGEN HÉDE.

SÁ KÉTHON HJA ALLERWÉIKES

THAT ÀRMODE HÁ. ÀND ÉNFALD SÁ.

THJU DÜRE WÉRE VMBE IN SIN RIK TO KVMANE.

THÀT THÉRA THÉR HÍR VP IRTHA THÀT MÁSTE LÉDEN HÉDE.

NÉIMELS THA MÁSTA NOCHTA HÀVA SKOLDE.

THAHWILA HJA WISTON THÀT JES-US LÉRAD HÉDE

THÀT MÀN SINA TOCHTA WELDA ÀND BISTJURA MOSTE.

SÁ LÉRDON HJA THÀT MÀN ALLE SINA TOCHTA DÉJA MOSTE.

ÀND THÀT THA FVLKVMINHÉD THÉRA MÀNNISKA THÉRIN BISTANDE

THÀT ER ÉVIN VNFORSTOREN WRDE SÁ THÀT KALDE STÉN.

VMBE THÀT FOLK NW WIS TO MÁKJANDE.

THÀT HJA ALSA DÉDON

ALSA BÉRADON HJA ÀRMODE OVERA STRÉTA

ÀND VMB FORTH TO BIWISANE

THÀT HIA AL HJARA TOCHTA DÁD HÉDE

NAMON HJA NÉNE WIWA.

THACH SA HWERSA EN TOGHATER EN MISSTAP HÉDE

SÁ WÀRTH HJA THAT RING FORJÁN.

THA WRAKKA SÉIDON HJA MOST MÀN HELPA

AND VMBE SIN ÀJN SÉLE TO BIHALDANE

MOST MÀN FÜL ANDA CHERKE JÁN.

THUS TO DVANDE HÉDE HJA WIV ÀND BERN SVNDER HÚSHALDEN

ÀND WRDON HJA RIK SVNDER WERKA.

MEN THÀT FOLK WÀRTH FÜL ÀRMER ÀND MÁR É.LÁNDICH AS Á TOFÁRA.

~

THAS LÉRE

HWÉRBI THA PRESTERA NÉN ORE WITSKIP HOVA

AS DROCHT.LIK RÉDA.

FRÁNA SKIN ÀND VNRJUCHTA PLÉGA.

BRÉD HIRI SELVA UT FON.T ÁSTA TO.T WESTA

ÀND SKIL ÁK VR VSA LANDA KVMA.

- - - - -

Ottema p.189

Terwijl de leer van Jessos over de aarde zich uitbreidde,

gingen de valsche priesters naar het land zijner geboorte,

om zijn dood bekend te maken;

zij zeiden dat zij van zijne vrienden waren,

zij veinsden eene groote droefheid

door hunne kleederen in stukken te scheuren

en hun hoofd kaal te scheeren.

Zij gingen in de holen der bergen wonen,

doch hierin hadden zij hunne schatten gebracht,

daar binnen maakten zij beelden van Jessos.

Deze beelden gaven ze aan de onergdenkende lieden;

ten langen laatste zeiden zij dat Jessos een godheid was,

dat hij zelf dit aan hun had beleden,

en dat allen die aan hem en zijne leer gelooven wilden,

hiernamaals in zijn koningrijk zouden komen,

waar vreugde is en genietingen zijn.

Vermits zij wisten dat Jessos tegen de rijken was te velde getrokken,

verkondigden zij allerwegen,

dat armoede lijden en eenvoudig zijn

de deur was om in zijn rijk te komen,

dat degene die op aarde het meeste geleden hadden,

hier namaals de meeste vreugde hebben zouden.

Ofschoon zij wisten, dat Jessos geleerd had,

dat men zijne hartstochten overmeesteren en besturen moest,

zoo leerden zij dat men alle zijne hartstochten dooden moest

en dat de volkomenheid des menschen daarin bestond,

dat hij even gevoelloos werd als de koude steen.

Ten einde nu het volk wijs te maken,

dat zij zelve zoo deden,

veinsden zij armoede op straat,

en om voorts te bewijzen,

dat zij al hunne zinnelijke lusten gedood hadden,

namen zij geene vrouwen.

Doch zoo ergens eene jonge dochter een misstap gedaan had,

werd haar dat spoedig vergeven;

de zwakken, zeiden zij, moest men helpen,

en om zijne eigene ziel te behouden,

moest men veel aan de kerk geven.

Dusdoende hadden zij vrouw en kinderen zonder huishouding,

en werden zij rijk zonder werken;

maar het volk werd veel armer en meer ellendig als ooit te voren.

Deze leer,

waarbij de priesters geen andere wetenschap noodig hebben,

als bedriegelijk te redeneren,

een vrome schijn en ongerechtigheden [plegen],

breidde zich zelve van ’t oosten naar het westen,

en zal ook over ons land komen.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.189

While the doctrine of Jessos was thus spreading over the earth,

the false priests went to the land of his birth

to make his death known.

They said they were his friends,

and they pretended to show great sorrow

by tearing their clothes

and shaving their heads.

They went to live in caves in the mountains,

but in them they had hid all their treasures,

and they made in them images of Jessos.

They gave these statues to simple people,

and at last they said that Jessos was a god,

that he had declared this himself to them,

and that all those who followed his doctrine

should enter his kingdom hereafter,

where all was joy and happiness.

Because they knew that he was opposed to the rich,

they announced everywhere

that poverty, suffering, and humility

were the door by which to enter into his kingdom,

and that those who had suffered the most on earth

should enjoy the greatest happiness there.

Although they knew that Jessos had taught

that men should regulate and control their passions,

they taught that men should stifle their passions,

and that the perfection of humanity consisted

in being as unfeeling as the cold stones.

In order to make the people believe

that they did as they preached,

they pretended to outward poverty;

and that they had overcome all sensual feelings,

they took no wives.

But if any young girl had made a false step,

it was quickly forgiven;

the weak, they said, were to be assisted,

and to save their souls

men must give largely to the Church.

Acting in this way, they had wives and children without households,

and were rich without working;

but the people grew poorer and more miserable than they had ever been before.

This doctrine,

which requires the priests to possess no further knowledge

than to speak deceitfully,

and to pretend to be pious while acting unjustly,

spreads from east to west,

and will come to our land also.

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDA" (statues or images) of "AFGODA" (idols or false gods) - fragment 12 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p. [163/29] - [165/18]: notes from Gértman Ljudgért about Pangab, added by Koneréd (ca. 270 BC)

VNDER THA HINDOS ÀND ÔTHERA UT.A LÔNDUM

SIND WELKA LJUDA MANK THÉR AN STILNISE BÍ MALKORUM KVMA.

SE GELÁVATH THET SE VNFORBASTERE BERN FINDA.S SIND.

SE GELÁVATH THET FINDA FONUT.ET HIMMEL-LÀJA BERTA BERN IS.

HVANÁ SE MITH HJARA BERN NÉI THA DELTA JEFTHA LÉGTE TOGEN IS.

~

WELKE VNDER THAM GELÁVATH

THET SE MITH HJRA BERN VPPET SKUM THER HÉLIGE GONGG-À DEL GONGGEN IS.

THÉRVMBE SKOLDE THI RUN-STRÁME HÉLIGE GONGG-À HÉTA.

MÁR THA PRESTERA THÉR UT EN ÔR LÔND WECH KVMA

LÉTON THI LJUDA VP SPÉRA ÀND VRBARNA.

THÉR VMBE NE THURVATH SE FAR HJARA SÉK NIT ÔPENTLIK UT NI KVMA.

~

IN THET LÔND SIND ÔLLE PRESTERA TJOK ÀND RIK.

IN HJARA CHÀRKA WERTHAT ÔLLERLÉJA DROCHTENLIKA BYLDON FVNDEN.

THÉR VNDER SIND FÉLO GOLDEN MANK.

BI WESTA PANG-AB THÉR SIND THA ÍRA JEFTHA WRANGA.

THA GEDROSTNE JEFTHA BRITNE. AND THA ORJETTEN JEFTHA VRJETNE.

ÔL THISA NÔMA SIND AR THRVCH THA NÍDIGE PRESTERA JÉVEN

THRVCHDAM HJA FON AR FLJUCHTE. VMB SÉDA ÀND GELÁV.

~

BI HJARA KVMSTE HÉDON VSA ÉTHLA HJARA SELVA ÁK AN THA ÁST-LIKA OWER FON PANG-AB DEL SET.

MEN VMB THÉRA PRESTAR WILLE SIND SE ÁK NÉI THER WESTER OWER FÁREN.

THÉRTHRVCH HÀVON WI THA ÍRA ÀND THA ÔTHERA KENNA LÉRTH.

THA ÍRA NE SIND NÉNE ÍRA MÁR GODA MINSKA

THER NÉNA BYLDON TOLÉTA NACH ÔNBIDDA.

ÁK WILLATH SE NÉNA CHÀRKA NACH PRESTAR DOGA.

ÀND ÉVIN ALS WY.T FRÁNA LJUCHT FON FÀSTA VPHOLDA.

ÉVIN SÁ HOLDON SE ÔLLERWECHS FJUR IN HJARA HÚSA VP.

KVMTH MÔN EFTER ÉL WESTLIK

ÔLSÁ KVMTH MÔN BY THA GEDROSTNE

FON THA GEDROSTNE.

THISA SIND MITH ÔRA FOLKRUM BASTERED

ÀND SPRÉKATH ÔLLE AFSVNDERLIKA TÁLA.

~

THISA MINSKA SIND WÉRENTLIK ÍRA BONAR.

THÉR AMMER MITH HJARA HORSA VP OVERA FJELDA DWÁLA.

THÉR AMMER JÁGJA ÀND RÁWA

ÀND THÉR HJARA SELVA ALS SALT-ÁTHA FORHÉRA ANTHA OMHÉMMANDE FORSTA.

THER WILLE HWAM SE ALLES NITHER HÁWA

HWAT SE BIRÉKA MÜGE.

- - - - -

Ottema p.221

Onder de Hindos en andere uit die landen

zijn er sommige lieden die in stilte bij elkander komen.

Zij gelooven dat zij onverbasterde kinderen van Finda zijn.

Zij gelooven dat Finda van uit het Himmellaia gebergte geboren is,

van waar zij met hare kinderen naar de delte of de laagte getrokken is.

Sommigen onder hen gelooven,

dat zij met hare kinderen op het schuim van de heilige Ganges naar beneden gegaan is.

Daarom zoude die rivier de heilige Ganges heeten.

Maar de priesters die uit een ander land weg komen

lieten die menschen opsporen en verbranden;

daarom durven zij voor hunne zaak niet openlijk uitkomen.

In dit land zijn alle priesters dik en rijk.

In hunne kerken worden allerlei gedrochtelijke [afgods-gelijkende] beelden gevonden,

daaronder zijn vele van goud.

Bewesten Pangab zijn de Yren (Iraniers) of wrangen (Drangianen),

de Gedrosten (Gedrosiers) of weggeloopenen, en de Urgetten of vergetenen.

Al deze namen zijn hun door de nijdige priesters gegeven,

omdat zij hen ontvlieden wegens de zeden en het geloof.

Bij hunne komst hadden onze voorouders zich ook aan den oostelijken oever van den Pangab neergezet,

maar om der priesteren wille zijn zij ook naar den westelijken oever gevaren.

Daardoor hebben wij de Yren en anderen leeren kennen.

De Yren zijn geen wilden, maar goede menschen,

die geen beelden toelaten noch aanbidden:

ook willen ze geen kerken noch priesteren dulden [gedogen],

en even als wij het heilige licht van Fasta aanhouden,

zoo houden zij allerwege vuur in hunne huizen brandende.

Komt men later heel westelijk,

zoo komt men bij de Gedrosten.

Van de Gedrosten:

deze zijn met andere volken verbasterd,

en spreken alle afzonderlijke talen.

Deze menschen zijn wezenlijk wilde moordenaren,

die altijd met hunne paarden over de velden dwalen,

die altijd jagen en rooven,

en die zich als soldaten verhuren aan de omwonende vorsten,

ter wier wille zij alles neder houwen,

wat zij kunnen bereiken.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.221

Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries

there are people who meet together secretly.

They believe that they are pure children of Finda,

and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains,

whence she went with her children to the lowlands.

Some of them believe

that she, with her children, floated down upon the foam of the Ganges,

and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges.

But the priests, who came from another country,

traced out these people and had them burnt,

so that they do not dare to declare openly their creed.

In this country all the priests are fat and rich.

In their churches there are all kinds of monstrous [idol-like] images,

many of them of gold.

To the west of the Punjab are the Yren (Iraniers), or morose (Drangianen),

the Gedrosten (Gedrosiers), or runaways, and the Urgetten, or forgotten.

These names are given by the priests out of spite,

because they fled from their customs and religion.

On their arrival our forefathers likewise established themselves to the east of the Punjab,

but on account of the priests they likewise went to the west.

In that way we learned to know the Yren and other people.

The Yren are not savages, but good people,

who neither pray to nor tolerate images;

neither will they suffer [permit] priests or churches;

but as we adhere to the light of Fasta,

so they everywhere maintain fire in their houses.

Coming still further westward,

we arrive at the Gedrosten.

Regarding the Gedrosten:

They have been mixed with other people,

and speak a variety of languages.

These people are really savage murderers,

who always wander about the country on horseback

hunting and robbing,

and hire themselves as soldiers to the surrounding princes,

at whose command they destroy

whatever they can reach.

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDA" (statues or images) of "AFGODA" (idols or false gods) - fragment 13 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p. [190/09] - [191/13]: Rika's letter (date unknown) about strange kings, added by unknown

THA POPPA KÀNINGGAR THAM NÉI WILKÉR LÉVA

STÉKATH VVRALDA NÉI THÉRE KRÔNE.

UT NÍD THAT VVR-ALDA AL-FÉDER HÉT,

SA WILDON HJA FÉDRUM THÉRA FOLKAR HÉTA.

~

NVV WÉT ALLERA MÀNNALIK THÀT-NE KÉNING NAVT OVIR-NE WAXDOM NE WELTH

ÀND THÀT-IM SIN FÉDING THRVCH THÀT FOLK BROCHT WARTH.

~

MEN THACH WILDON HJA FVLHERDJA BY HJARA FORMÉTENHÉD.

~

TILTHJU HJA TO.RA DOL KVMA MACHTE

ALSA HÀVON HJA THET FORMA NAVT FVLDÉN WÉST MITH THA FRYA JEFTA

MEN HÀVON HJA THÀT FOLK ÉNE TINS VPLÉID.

FORI THENE SKÀT THAM THÉROF KÉM

HÉRADON HJA VRLANDISKA SALT-ÁTHA -

THAM HJA IN-OM HJARA HOVA LÉIDON.

FORTH NAMON HJA ALSA FÉLO WIVA AS-RA LUSTE,

ÀND THA LITHIGA FORSTA ÀND HÉRA DÉDON AL-ÉN.

~

AS TWIST ÀND TVÍSPALT ÀFTERNÉI INNA HÚSHALDNE GLUPTE

ÀND THÉRVR KLÁCHTA KÉMON

THÁ HÀVON HJA SÉID,

JAHWEDER MÀN IS THÉNE FÉDER FON SIN HÚSHALDEN

THÉRVMBE SKIL.ER ÁK BÁS ÀND RJUCHTER OVIR WÉSA.

THÁ KÉM WIL.KÉR

ÀND ÉVIN AS THAM MITHA MÀNNUM INOVIR THA HÚSHALDNE WELDE

GVNG.ER MITH THA KÀNINGGAR INOVIR HJARA STÁT ÀND FOLKAR DVAN.

THÁ THA KÀNINGGAR ET ALSA WÍD BROCHT HÉDE

THÀT HJA FÉDERUM THÉRA FOLKAR HÉTE

THÁ GVNGON HJA TO ÀND LÉTON BYLDON ÀFTER HJARA DÁNTNE MÁKJA.

THISSA BYLDON LÉTON HJA INNA THA CHERKA STALLA NÉST THA BYLDON THÉRA DROCHTNE

ÀND THI JENA THAM THÉR NAVT FAR BÚGJA NILDE

WARTH OM BROCHT JEFTHA AN KÉDNE DÉN.

- - - - -

Ottema p.229

De vreemde koningen, die naar willekeur leven,

steken Wralda naar de kroon;

uit nijd dat Wralda Alvader [al-voeder] heet

wilden zij ook vaderen [voeders] der volken genoemd worden.

Nu weet iedereen dat een koning niet over den wasdom heerscht,

en dat hem zijne voeding door het volk gebracht wordt;

maar toch wilden zij volharden bij hunne vermetelheid.

Opdat zij tot hun doel mochten komen,

zoo zijn zij in het eerst niet voldaan geweest met de vrije giften,

maar hebben het volk eene schatting opgelegd.

Voor de schat, die daarvan kwam,

huurden zij buitenlandsche soldaten,

die zij rondom hunne hoven legden.

Vervolgens namen zij zoo vele vrouwen, als hun lustte,

en de kleine vorsten en heeren deden eveneens.

Toen naderhand twist en tweespalt in de huishouding sloop,

en daarover klachten kwamen,

hebben zij gezegd:

ieder man is de vader (voeder) van zijn huisgezin,

daarom zal hij ook meester en rechter daarover wezen.

Toen kwam de willekeur,

en even als die met de mannen over het huisgezin heerschte,

ging zij ook met de koningen over de volken doen.

Toen de koningen het zoo ver gebracht hadden,

dat zij vaderen [voeders] der volken heetten,

gingen zij heen en lieten beelden naar hunne gedaante maken;

deze beelden lieten zij in de kerken stellen naast de beelden der afgoden,

en degene die daar niet voor buigen wilde,

werd omgebracht of in ketenen gedaan.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.229

The foreign kings, who follow their own will,

place Wr-alda below the crown.

From envy that Wr-alda is called the universal father [feeder],

they wish also to be called fathers [feeders] of the people.

Now, everybody knows that kings do not regulate the productiveness of the earth;

and that they have their sustenance [feeding] by means of the people,

but still they will persist in their arrogance.

In order to attain their object

they were not satisfied from the beginning with free gifts,

but imposed a tax upon the people.

With the tax [treasure] thus raised

they hired foreign soldiers,

whom they retained about their courts.

Afterwards they took as many wives as they pleased,

and the smaller princes and gentry did the same.

When, in consequence, quarrels and disputes arose in the households,

and complaints were made about it,

they said

every man is the father (feeder) of his household,

therefore he shall be master and judge over it.

Thus arose arbitrariness,

and as the men ruled over their households

the kings would do over their people.

When the kings had accomplished that,

they should be called fathers [feeders] of the people,

they had statues of themselves made,

and erected in the churches beside the statues of the idols,

and those who would not bow down to them

were either killed or put in chains.

[Otharus]

Criticism of religions in OLB

Worship of "BYLDA" (statues or images) of "AFGODA" (idols or false gods) - fragment 14 of 14

- - - - -

OLB p. [204/22] - [205/23]: Anonymous about Black Adel (a.k.a. Áskar) and Frétho-gunsta (ca. 50 BC)

BY THA TWISK-LANDAR SEND FÉLO TJODA PLÉGA FON THA TARTARUM ÀND MÁGJARA BINNA GLUPTH

MEN ÁK FÜL SEND THÉR FON VSA SÉDUM BILÉWEN.

THÉR THRVCH HÀVATH HJA JETA FÁMNA

THÉR THA BERN LÉRA ÀND THA ALDA RÉD JEVA.

BI T.ANFANG WÉRON HJA REINTJA NÍDICH

MEN TO THA LESTA WÀRTH HJU THRVCH HJAM FOLGATH ÀND THJANJATH ÀND ALLERWÉIKES BOGATH

HWÉR.ET NETTE ÀND NÉDLIK WÉRE.

~

ALSA RINGEN ÁSKAR FON RÉINTJA HJRA BODON FORNOM

HO THA JUTTAR NÍGATH WÉRON

SAND HI BISTONDA BODON FON SIN ANT WEGUM NÉI THA KÀNING FON HALS.

THÀT SKIP WÉR MITH THA BODON GVNGON

WAS FVL LÉDEN MITH FÁMNA SÍRHÉDUM

ÀND THÉR BÍ WÉR EN GOLDEN SKILD

HWÉRVPPA ÁSKAR HIS DÁNTE KUNSTA LIK WAS UT EBYLD.

THISSA BODON MOSTON FRÉJA

JÉF ÁSKAR THES KÀNING HIS TOGHTER FRÉTHO-GUNSTA TO SIN WIF HÀVE MACHTE.

~

FRÉTHO-GUNSTA KÉM EN JÉR LÉTER TO STÁVEREN.

BI HJARA FOLGAR WÉRE ÁK ÉNEN MÁGÍ

HWAND THA JUTTAR WÉRON SUNT LÔNG VRBRUD.

~

KIRT AFTER THÀT ÁSKAR MITH FRÉTHO-GUNSTA BOSTIGJATH WAS

WÀRTH THÉR TO STÁVEREN ÉNE SCHERKE BVWED.

INNA THJU SCHERKE WRDON TJODA DROCHTEN LÍKANDA BYLDON STALTH.

MITH GOLD TRVCH WROCHTNE KLÁTHAR.

ÁK IS ER BIWÉRATH HAT ÁSKAR THÉR NACHTIS ÀND VNTÍDIS

MITH FRÉTHO-GUNSTA FÁR NITHER BUWGADE.

- - - - -

Ottema p.245

Bij de Twisklanders zijn vele kwade gewoonten van de Tartaren en Magyaren binnengeslopen,

maar er zijn ook vele van onze zeden gebleven.

Daardoor hebben zij ook nog Maagden [Famna],

die de kinderen onderwijzen en de ouden raad geven.

In den beginne waren zij Reintja vijandig,

maar ten laatste werd zij door haar gevolgd en gediend en allerwege geprezen,

waar het nuttig en noodig was.

Zoodra Askar van Reintjas boden vernam,

hoe de Jutten gezind waren,

zond hij terstond boden van zijnentwege naar den koning van Hals.

Het schip, waarmede de boden gingen,

was vol geladen met vrouwen sieraden,

en daarbij was een gouden schild,

waarop Askars gedaante kunstig was afgebeeld.

Deze boden moesten vragen

of Askar des konings dochter Frethogunsta tot zijne vrouw mocht hebben.

Frethogunsta kwam een jaar later te Staveren;

bij haar gevolg was ook een Magy,

want de Jutten waren sedert lang verdorven.

Kort nadat Askar met Frethogunsta getrouwd was,

werd er te Staveren eene kerk gebouwd;

in de kerk werden booze gedrochtelijke [afgoden-gelijkende] beelden gesteld,

met goud doorwevene kleederen.

Ook is er beweerd dat Askar bij nacht en bij ontijde

met Frethogunsta zich daar voor nederboog.

- - - - -

Sandbach p.245

Among the Twisklanders many bad customs of the Tartars and Magyars have crept in,

but likewise many of our laws have remained.

Therefore they still have Maagden [Matrons],

who teach the children and advise the old.

In the beginning they were opposed to Reintja,

but at last she was followed, obeyed, and praised by them

where it was useful or necessary.

As soon as Askar heard from Reintja's messengers

how the Jutlanders were disposed,

he immediately, on his side, sent messengers to the King of Hals.

The ship in which the messengers went

was laden with women's ornaments,

and took also a golden shield

on which Askar's portrait was artistically represented.

These messengers were to ask

the King's daughter, Frethogunsta, in marriage for Askar.

Frethogunsta came a year after that to Staveren.

Among her followers was a Magy,

for the Jutlanders had been long ago corrupted.

Soon after Askar had married Frethogunsta,

a church was built at Staveren.

In the church were placed monstrous [idol-like] images,

bedecked with gold-woven dresses.

It is also said that Askar, by night, and at unseasonable times,

kneeled to them with Frethogunsta;

Edited February 24, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Idol worship and child sacrifice

(Abe, you'll like the ravens)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7PHlmJj0Cw

from: Hrafninn Flýgur (1984) by Hrafn Gunnlaugsson

[Otharus]

Another reveiling fragment (from Hvíti víkingurinn, 1991)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNPf9PPiyzk

A personal note:

The 'Raven' trilogy (I saw it shortly after it was released) is one of the main causes of my interest in history.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

I found the whole movie (part 3 of the 'Raven'-trilogy) online, but it will probably be taken off again soon.

So, if you're interested, go see it now!

Part 1-2:

Edited February 24, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Part 3-4:

[Otharus]

Part 5-6:

[Otharus]

Part 7-8 (8 misnumbered as 9):

Edited February 24, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Part 9-10 (misnumbered as 10-11):

[Otharus]

In the one I posted, the beginning was missing.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcTHcxjZUSM

[Abramelin]

Good idea, Otharus, I'm going to watch that movie tonight. ""The White Viking", that is.

.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Did anyone notice those 'thingies' that look like the OLB tildes in the document in my former post?

A screenshot:

http://www.cartago.nl/img/kla0006_001.jpg

And you will see the document is full with corrections. Wouldn't it be nice if the -X- in MCCXLV was also a mistake?? In that case the date would be MCCLV = 1255, the date the OLB almost got destroyed by a flood. But our Hiddo would have had serious health problems, his wife being a widow and all that...

Otharus, Knul, Van Gorp, anyone: what can you make of that date? I recognize the year, MCCXLV = 1245

I recognize XVIII = 18.

But what comes last looks like 'Chinese' to me.

One translation says it's December 18:

Acta sunt hec Groninge anno domini MCCXLV, XVIII kalendas decembris.

These are the reports of the public acts of Groningen in the year 1245, 18 December

Another says it's November 14th:

http://books.google.nl/books?id=sokbZsTdSOgC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=Alfgerdis+18+NOVEMBER+1245&source=bl&ots=RxqGjZPjCG&sig=WxEtPOlc4jMcLLSwXmDWVoGr5p4&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=Y-

I think the last one is wrong concerning the day number, but maybe it is right about the month, November.

Why is that interesting?

Hilde, Hielke, Hielko, Hilko, Hille, Hylko, Hielkje, Hil, Hilda, Hilla, Hilly, Hiltje, Hylke, Ilda (Du.), Elda (Ital.).

Afgeleid van het Germaanse 'hild', met de betekenis 'strijd'. De naam betekent; de strijder, de strijdlustige

Op 17 november is er een feestdag ter ere van Hilda, in de 8ste eeuw abdis van een klooster bij Whitby in Engeland.

(...)

Derived from the German 'hild', meaning 'battle'. The name means 'warrior', 'the militant'.

On November 17th there is a festival in the honor of Hilda, during the 6th century in a convent near Whitby, England.

=====

Hidde, Hiddo, Hidske, Hidda, Hiddeke.

Afgeleid van het Germaanse 'hild', met de betekenis; strijd.

Voornamelijk in Friesland en Groningen voorkomende naam.

(...)

Mainly a common name in Friesland and Groningen

http://www.gerardlenting.nl/naam/namenh.html

I already quoted from another site that explains "Hidde" (and not Sandbach's "Hiddo", which is not in the OLB) as a girl's name meaning "brave heroin".

So what I am saying is this: a woman called "Hidde Aldgerda/Aldgerdis" , accompanied by her two sons Occo and Gergardus, sold her property, including 1400 books, to a nearby convent with the name Yesse/Jesse.

A day after her socalled "name-day".

I had never heard of a "name-day" before I met Hungarians and Serbians/Kroats. It is the day of the saint you have been named after. That day is to them as important as the day they were born and they have a party (I know, I was there).

Can you imagine this: a woman, a widow called "Hidde Aldgerda/Algerdis" decided, a day after the celibration of her name-day, to sell her property to some nearby convent. And she went accompanied by her two sons of which one was called "Occo".

You might think that - after reading the OLB - no Frisian was inclined to 'honor' Christian name-days, but I think they just had to. Those times were not like modern times when you can say , "Fk Christmas, I am not interested".

You would have to follow the 'Christian rules', or else be branded as a heretic and face the consequences.

And most often you would simply be killed by hanging, or be stoned to death, or drowned in some swamp.

People knew your first name, and they expected you to celibrate your name-day because some fkg 'saint' happened to have the same name as you had.

If you didn't, your ass was for the pious ones, heh.

.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Good idea, Otharus, I'm going to watch that movie tonight. ""The White Viking", that is.

Enoy!

[Abramelin]

Enoy!

I will, no doubt about that.

I also hope you enjoyed my former post.

(And yes, I'm done editing now).

[Otharus]

I also hope you enjoyed my former post.

What I find most significant about it is the number of books (1400!?).

It shows how much must have been lost/ gone.

That there is similarities in names does not surprise me, but it suggests they were part of the same culture.

(In the area where I live there are Okkema's, Halbertsma's etc.)

If you have ever studied a family tree, you'll see the same names coming back over and over again.

(My brother, father, g-father, g-g-father and g-g-g-father (and the latter's father's-brother) all have/ had exactly the same name: "Alewijn". I was named after a g-uncle, who was named after his uncle, who was named after his uncle, who was named after his g-father, who was named after his g-father.)

There's not that many names (now more than in the past).

Also, I don't believe that naming by name-days has ever been a big thing here.

~ ~ ~

I'm busy reading "Het geheim van het Oera-Linda-Boek" by dr. M. de Jong Hzn. (1927).

And I prepare a follow-up (conclusion) of my posts about criticism of religions.

[Van Gorp]

Otharus, Knul, Van Gorp, anyone: what can you make of that date? I recognize the year, MCCXLV = 1245

I recognize XVIII = 18.

But what comes last looks like 'Chinese' to me.

One translation says it's December 18:

Acta sunt hec Groninge anno domini MCCXLV, XVIII kalendas decembris.

These are the reports of the public acts of Groningen in the year 1245, 18 December

Another says it's November 14th:

http://books.google.nl/books?id=sokbZsTdSOgC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=Alfgerdis+18+NOVEMBER+1245&source=bl&ots=RxqGjZPjCG&sig=WxEtPOlc4jMcLLSwXmDWVoGr5p4&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=Y-

I think the last one is wrong concerning the day number, but maybe it is right about the month, November.

Why is that interesting?

Hilde, Hielke, Hielko, Hilko, Hille, Hylko, Hielkje, Hil, Hilda, Hilla, Hilly, Hiltje, Hylke, Ilda (Du.), Elda (Ital.).

Afgeleid van het Germaanse 'hild', met de betekenis 'strijd'. De naam betekent; de strijder, de strijdlustige

Op 17 november is er een feestdag ter ere van Hilda, in de 8ste eeuw abdis van een klooster bij Whitby in Engeland.

(...)

Derived from the German 'hild', meaning 'battle'. The name means 'warrior', 'the militant'.

On November 17th there is a festival in the honor of Hilda, during the 6th century in a convent near Whitby, England.

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Hidde, Hiddo, Hidske, Hidda, Hiddeke.

Afgeleid van het Germaanse 'hild', met de betekenis; strijd.

Voornamelijk in Friesland en Groningen voorkomende naam.

(...)

Mainly a common name in Friesland and Groningen

http://www.gerardlenting.nl/naam/namenh.html

I already quoted from another site that explains "Hidde" (and not Sandbach's "Hiddo", which is not in the OLB) as a girl's name meaning "brave heroin".

So what I am saying is this: a woman called "Hidde Aldgerda/Aldgerdis" , accompanied by her two sons Occo and Gergardus, sold her property, including 1400 books, to a nearby convent with the name Yesse/Jesse.

A day after her socalled "name-day".

I had never heard of a "name-day" before I met Hungarians and Serbians/Kroats. It is the day of the saint you have been named after. That day is to them as important as the day they were born and they have a party (I know, I was there).

Can you imagine this: a woman, a widow called "Hidde Aldgerda/Algerdis" decided, a day after the celibration of her name-day, to sell her property to some nearby convent. And she went accompanied by her two sons of which one was called "Occo".

You might think that - after reading the OLB - no Frisian was inclined to 'honor' Christian name-days, but I think they just had to. Those times were not like modern times when you can say , "Fk Christmas, I am not interested".

You would have to follow the 'Christian rules', or else be branded as a heretic and face the consequences.

And most often you would simply be killed by hanging, or be stoned to death, or drowned in some swamp.

People knew your first name, and they expected you to celibrate your name-day because some fkg 'saint' happened to have the same name as you had.

If you didn't, your ass was for the pious ones, heh.

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Hi Abe, interesting tildes and numbers.

From my point of view I had to think of Simon Stevin who combined these 2 (f.e. ~p abbrevation of plus, ~m of minus, ...). This just to mention.

But to the point: i studied Latin, but I can remember how I couldn't understand how that awefull system came about.

I mean, if dates are that important: why such a rocketscience behind the 'system'. Sorry for the dutch text below, but I couldn't describe it better with an English translation. My fault I know, but just exemplary of what is involved to trace back the day of month. The only thing i remember was my feeling: 'Who invent ssuch a method?'

De namen van onze maanden zijn afgeleid van de Latijnse benamingen, die eigenlijk adjectieven waren: (mensis) Ianuarius, Februarius, Martius, Aprilis, Maius, Iunius, Quintilis (later Iulius), Sextilis (later Augustus), September, October, November en December. Uit de namen Quintilis (vijfde maand), Sextilis (zesde maand) enz. blijkt dat maart oorspronkelijk de eerste maand van het jaar was. Vanaf 153 v.C. begon het jaar op 1 januari, omdat op die datum de meeste magistraten hun ambtstermijn aanvatten.

De Romeinen gaven speciale namen aan drie vaste dagen van hun maanden:

– Kalendae (afk. Kal.): kalenden, d.i. de 1ste dag van elke maand;

– Nonae (afk. Non.): nonen, d.i. de 5de dag van de maand (de 7de in maart, mei, juli en oktober);

– Idus (afk. Id.): iden, d.i. de 13de dag van de maand (de 15de in maart, mei, juli en oktober).

Een datum met een van die drie vaste dagen zette men in de ablatief: bv. Kalendis Ianuariis (1 januari), Nonis Decembribus (5 december), Idibus Martiis (15 maart). De overige dagen van de maand werden van die drie teruggeteld. De dag voor de kalenden, nonen en iden werd aangeduid door pridie met de accusatief: bv. pridie Idus Ianuarias (12 januari), pridie Kalendas Februarias (31 januari). De voorafgaande dagen telde men zo terug, dat de dagen van welke en tot welke men telde, werden meegerekend: bv. (die) tertio (ante) Idus Ianuarias (11 januari), (die) quarto (ante) Nonas Martias (4 maart). Door omzetting zei men echter, i.p.v. bv. (die) octavo (ante) Kalendas Decembres, gewoonlijk bv. ante diem octavum Kalendas Decembres en schreef men a. d. VIII Kal. Dec. (24 november).

Om een Romeinse datum in een moderne om te zetten moet je het getal in de Latijnse datum aftrekken van het volgnummer van de dag van de nonen of de iden vermeerderd met één: bv. quinto Nonas Iulias (7 + 1 – 5 = 3 juli), tertio Idus Octobres (15 + 1 – 3 = 13 oktober);

– het getal in de Latijnse datum aftrekken van het aantal dagen van de voorafgaande maand vermeerderd met twee, als het om de kalenden gaat: bv. quarto Kalendas Novembres (31 + 2 – 4 = 29 oktober).

When applied to your text, I wonder what is meant with the word before December (maybe for you clear?). Is it Tils or something or Kalendis (I can't see it right away). Just to be sure how to calculate (f.e. if it was III Idus Januarias -> 11 January).

The last sentance is just Dutch right?