[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Van Gorp]

Indeed very interesting and worthwile to investigate further.The matter is, if the Greek derived their pantheon from Nordic people or from the Middle East.

Hey Guys,

Can we please stick to the subject :-)

Good intentions, but after 2 posts OLB seems to play again all around the world lol

For me, i like to keep it simple.

Ka-Samyr: dal (valley) in a mountain -> wow must be unusual to see!

Like always, quick check Noormandy, Picardy, Artesia and bingo: Mont de Dalles close to Samer.

On top of that you can visit also the Peene Vallei: you would think you were in Kashmir :-).

What about Punjab and Kashmir on the other side of the word?

Scythe was there too and called all the same according to the same natural circumstances.

[The Puzzler]

That was in/near Afghanistan, lol.

And nowhere near Northern Europe.

So, Scythians took it into Northern Europe.

[Knul]

Movie on LINDESNES (MS 147 r.12): http://www.campersite.be/reizen/Noorwegen/noel2008/dag7/lindesnes.php

[Knul]

Hey Guys,

Can we please stick to the subject :-)

Good intentions, but after 2 posts OLB seems to play again all around the world lol

For me, i like to keep it simple.

Ka-Samyr: dal (valley) in a mountain -> wow must be unusual to see!

Like always, quick check Noormandy, Picardy, Artesia and bingo: Mont de Dalles close to Samer.

On top of that you can visit also the Peene Vallei: you would think you were in Kashmir :-).

What about Punjab and Kashmir on the other side of the word?

Scythe was there too and called all the same according to the same natural circumstances.

Did you explain the meaning of the word Kasamyr ? Or Kri-sen ? I mean not the Gorpian way, but linguistically.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Knul

[The Puzzler]

Did you explain the meaning of the word Kasamyr ? Or Kri-sen ? I mean not the Gorpian way, but linguistically.

As a result of the hero's actions, the people named the valley as "Kashyap-Mar", meaning abode of Kashyap, and "Kashyap-Pura", meaning city of Kashyap, in Sanskrit.[4] The name "Kashmir," in Sanskrit, implies land desiccated from water: "ka" (the water) and shimeera (to desiccate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir

It might come from the drying out of the water - ka-shimeera

shimmer probably comes from this word, like sand on the beach with the sun on it, when the water is soaking into it as the water laps up on the shore, this is shimmery, the word is probably steeped in this meaning. Desicated coconut is dried out coconut.

This to me makes sense of why it was so called.

[Abramelin]

Hey Guys,

Can we please stick to the subject :-)

Good intentions, but after 2 posts OLB seems to play again all around the world lol

For me, i like to keep it simple.

Ka-Samyr: dal (valley) in a mountain -> wow must be unusual to see!

Like always, quick check Noormandy, Picardy, Artesia and bingo: Mont de Dalles close to Samer.

On top of that you can visit also the Peene Vallei: you would think you were in Kashmir :-).

What about Punjab and Kashmir on the other side of the word?

Scythe was there too and called all the same according to the same natural circumstances.

Then you should start reading the OLB, and you will understand the connection.

[Abramelin]

As a result of the hero's actions, the people named the valley as "Kashyap-Mar", meaning abode of Kashyap, and "Kashyap-Pura", meaning city of Kashyap, in Sanskrit.[4] The name "Kashmir," in Sanskrit, implies land desiccated from water: "ka" (the water) and shimeera (to desiccate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir

It might come from the drying out of the water - ka-shimeera

shimmer probably comes from this word, like sand on the beach with the sun on it, when the water is soaking into it as the water laps up on the shore, this is shimmery, the word is probably steeped in this meaning. Desicated coconut is dried out coconut.

This to me makes sense of why it was so called.

Yes, you posted that before, but the OLB suggests that 'rare' is a translation of 'Kasamyr'.

In whatever way we chop the word up, nothing points to a part meaning 'rare'.

[The Puzzler]

Yes, you posted that before, but the OLB suggests that 'rare' is a translation of 'Kasamyr'.

In whatever way we chop the word up, nothing points to a part meaning 'rare'.

shimmer (v.) O.E. scimerian "to glitter," related to (perhaps a frequentative of) scimian "to shine," also "grow dark," and scinan (see shine). Ultimately from P.Gmc. *skim- (cf. Swed. skimra, Du. schemeren "to glitter," Ger. schimmern), from PIE root *skai- "to gleam, to shine."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=shimmer

Sure it could imo, to glitter, to shine - like gold.

In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain, lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere) that is “extraordinary.”

In-t hirte fon Findas lând vppet berchta lêid en del, thêr is kêthen Kasamyr, thet is sjeldsum.

Sjeldsum/seldom - extraordinary - rare could imo go through to meaning this - the desication may have been an extraordinary happening, which produced a shimmery area, that glittered like gold.

Verb

shimmer (third-person singular simple present shimmers, present participle shimmering, simple past and past participle shimmered)

1.(intransitive) To shine with a veiled, tremulous, or intermittent light; to gleam faintly; to glisten; to glimmer.

Translations

to shine with a veiled light; to gleam faintly; to glisten; to glimmer

1.A faint or veiled and tremulous gleam or shining; a glimmer.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shimmer

A glimmer of hope can transfer to a tiny bit - a rare chance in other words.

[Abramelin]

"Extraordinary" is not the right translation for "sjeldsum". It really should be "rare".

[Abramelin]

The matter is... did Indians during Ashoka's time travel as far as Northern Europe or even Scandinavia and spread their Buddhist religion there?

And was Odin no one else but Buddha?

.

The next I posted in a thread I once started about the possibility that Native Americans may have discovered Europe many ages before Columbus discovered America.

It's about Roman writers mentioning "Indos", meaning: people from India. But instead of thinking these could have been Native Americans, maybe they were what the Romans said they were: people from India??

I found it, Marcos:

It's in chapter 5 of the book THE AMERICAN DISCOVERY OF EUROPE, "5. From Iberia to the Baltic: Americans in Roman and Pre-Modern Europe"

http://books.google.com/books?id=cd8yZn7MfSQC&printsec=frontcover&cd=1&source=gbs_ViewAPI#v=onepage&q=&f=false

A screenshot:

.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

"Extraordinary" is not the right translation for "sjeldsum". It really should be "rare".

I agree and my 'translation' took that into account.

[Abramelin]

Who can complete this sentence ?

[MS 143]

01 … MIN ЄÐLA HÆVON IN ÆFTER ÐIT BOK SKR-

02 [Y]VEN

You ask, because where you put the dots "...MIN ЄÐLA HÆVON IN ÆFTER ÐIT BOK SKR" a piece of the paper, top-left, has been torn off.

First the 'official' text, with Sandbach's translation:

Thet skrift fon konerêd.

Min êthla haevon in aefter thit bok skrêven. Thit wil ik boppa ella dva, vmbe thaet er in min stât nên burch ovir is, hwêrin tha bêrtnesa vp skrêven wrde lik to fâra.

THE WRITING OF KONERÊD.

My forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bs

It already starts wrong: "êthla" doesn't mean 'forefathers', it means nobles (or 'edelen' in Dutch):

ethe-l-e 10, afries., Adj.: nhd. edel, adlig, vollbürtig, frei, vortrefflich; ne. noble,

freeborn; ÜG.: lat. næbilis L 22; Vw.: s. un-; Hw.: vgl. ae. Ïþele, as. ethili*, ahd.

edili (2); Q.: L 22; E.: germ. *aþala-, *aþalaz, *aþalja-, *aþaljaz, Adj., von

vornehmem Geschlecht, von Adel, angestammt; germ. *aþilu-, *aþiluz, Adj., von

vornehmem Geschlecht, von Adel, angestammt; vgl. idg. *Àtos, *atta, Sb., Vater,

Mutter (F.) (1), Pokorny 71, EWAhd 1, 48; W.: nfries. edel, eel, adj., edel, adlig;

L.: Hh 22b, Rh 720a

ethe-l-e, afries., M., N.: Vw.: s. ethe-l (1)

ethe-l-hê-d 11, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Adel (M.) (1), Schönheit; ne. nobility,

beauty; Hw.: vgl. mnd. edelhêit, mnl. edelheit, mhd. edelheit; Q.: AA 172; E.: s.

ethe-l-e, *hê-d; W.: nfries. adelheyt; L.: Hh 22a, Rh 720b, AA 172

The translation of the sentence would then start with "My nobles .... "

Doesn't sound right, so "MIN" is the end, the last 3 letters of another word, or so it seems, and not a word in itself.

.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

You ask, because where you put the dots "...MIN ЄÐLA HÆVON IN ÆFTER ÐIT BOK SKR" a piece of the paper, top-left, has been torn off.

First the 'official' text, with Sandbach's translation:

Thet skrift fon konerêd.

Min êthla haevon in aefter thit bok skrêven. Thit wil ik boppa ella dva, vmbe thaet er in min stât nên burch ovir is, hwêrin tha bêrtnesa vp skrêven wrde lik to fâra.

THE WRITING OF KONERÊD.

My forefathers have written this book in succession. I will do this, the more because there exists no longer in my state any citadel on which events are inscribed as used to be the case.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bs

It already starts wrong: "êthla" doesn't mean 'forefathers', it means nobles (or 'edelen' in Dutch):

ethe-l-e 10, afries., Adj.: nhd. edel, adlig, vollbürtig, frei, vortrefflich; ne. noble,

freeborn; ÜG.: lat. næbilis L 22; Vw.: s. un-; Hw.: vgl. ae. Ïþele, as. ethili*, ahd.

edili (2); Q.: L 22; E.: germ. *aþala-, *aþalaz, *aþalja-, *aþaljaz, Adj., von

vornehmem Geschlecht, von Adel, angestammt; germ. *aþilu-, *aþiluz, Adj., von

vornehmem Geschlecht, von Adel, angestammt; vgl. idg. *Àtos, *atta, Sb., Vater,

Mutter (F.) (1), Pokorny 71, EWAhd 1, 48; W.: nfries. edel, eel, adj., edel, adlig;

L.: Hh 22b, Rh 720a

ethe-l-e, afries., M., N.: Vw.: s. ethe-l (1)

ethe-l-hê-d 11, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Adel (M.) (1), Schönheit; ne. nobility,

beauty; Hw.: vgl. mnd. edelhêit, mnl. edelheit, mhd. edelheit; Q.: AA 172; E.: s.

ethe-l-e, *hê-d; W.: nfries. adelheyt; L.: Hh 22a, Rh 720b, AA 172

The translation of the sentence would then start with "My nobles .... "

Doesn't sound right, so "MIN" is the end, the last 3 letters of another word, or so it seems, and not a word in itself.

.

Ethel is nobility, I have an old Aunty Ethel, anyway, I also found this connection to the name...

Ethel fem. proper name, originally a shortening of O.E. Etheldred, Ethelinda, etc., in which the first element means "nobility.

"estate early 13c., "rank, standing, condition," from Anglo-Fr. astat, O.Fr. estat "state, position, condition, health, status, legal estate" (Mod.Fr. état), from L. status "state or condition," from root of stare "to stand" from PIE root *sta- "to stand" (see stet). For initial e-, see especial. Sense of "property" is late 14c., from that of "worldly prosperity;" specific application to "landed property" (usually of large extent) is first recorded in Amer.Eng. 1620s. A native word for this was M.E. ethel (O.E. æðel) "ancestral land or estate, patrimony."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Ethel

It maybe should be 'my ancestors...' (on my fathers side) = my forefathers.

Edited April 9, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

OK, yes, they have consequently translated it throughout the OLB as 'forefathers', and most often that seems to look like the right translation :

Okke min svn.

Thissa boka mot i mith lif aend sêle wârja. Se vmbifattath thju skêdnise fon vs êle folk âk fon vsa êthlum.

OKKE MY SON—

You must preserve these books with body and soul. They contain the history of all our people, as well as of our forefathers.

==

Ljawa ervnôma. Vmb vsa ljawa êthlas wille aend vmb vsa ljawa fridoms wille,

Beloved successors, for the sake of our dear forefathers, and of our dear liberty,

==

Baern mot maen lêre, ho grât vs lànd êr wèsen sy, hokke grâte maenniska vsa ethla wêron,

You must teach the children how great our country has been, what great men our forefathers were,

==

Forth hi en êrenâma vppa sine skeld fon sina êthelun, sâ ne mügon sina sibba thi nâma navt lônger ne fora.

If he bears on his shield the honourable name of his forefathers, his kinsmen shall no longer wear it,

But if you look at the original page in the manuscript here:

http://images.tresoar.nl/bibl-collectie/boeken/oeralinda/groot/pagina.php?p=145&pm=212

... then it is clear there was some word before MIN or some letters attached to MIN.

Every page of the manuscript tends to start in the upper-lefthand corner.

All I can come up with right now, is this:

Samin/Semin= together (DU: samen) (or Tosemin (DU: tesamen) , but there is no space for 4 extra letters)

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-S.pdf

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-T.pdf

But that sounds even worse, lol.

.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

It looks abit like FRY to me, on the ripped attached part - frymin? my free forefathers?

frymin ethel

freemy forefathers - my free forefathers

Edited April 9, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

It looks abit like FRY to me, on the ripped attached part - frymin? my free forefathers?

frymin ethel

freemy forefathers - my free forefathers

No, the piece of paper in the corner is totally gone: what you think you see is the next page.

+++

EDIT:

Now I am doubting: this correction - it looks like a complete page has been glued on the back - doesn't make any sense at all. The final word in that sentence can not be "skrêven".

Anyway, whoever tried to restore that page did a very sloppy job.

Or it is part of one of those lost pages?

.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

No, the piece of paper in the corner is totally gone: what you think you see is the next page.

+++

EDIT:

Now I am doubting: this correction - it looks like a complete page has been glued on the back - doesn't make any sense at all. The final word in that sentence can not be "skrêven".

.

lol I think you are right in that it is the page behind it.

[Abramelin]

lol I think you are right in that it is the page behind it.

But this IS the next page:

http://images.tresoar.nl/bibl-collectie/boeken/oeralinda/groot/pagina.php?p=146&pm=212

Lol, you see the right corner on top?

.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

The strange thing is, on knuls photocopies, at least, page 100.44 does not seem to have those FRY letters at the start...which would be behind it, you would think, if the pages are in order..

http://www.rodinbook.nl/olbscans.html

--------------

Yes Abe, I do see it. hmmm

Edited April 9, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

The strange thing is, on knuls photocopies, at least, page 100.44 does not seem to have those FRY letters at the start...which would be behind it, you would think, if the pages are in order..

http://www.rodinbook.nl/olbscans.html

--------------

Yes Abe, I do see it. hmmm

Yeah, you'r right: http://www.rodinbook.nl/olb100-43.jpg-for-web-xlarge.jpg

Those letters should show up very clearly.

???

[The Puzzler]

The word does look like screven that you said would not be imo.

Only EVEN is on the 2nd line in that word.

Weird hey, what could that page be behind it?

Edited April 9, 2012 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

But if you look at the original page in the manuscript here:

http://images.tresoar.nl/bibl-collectie/boeken/oeralinda/groot/pagina.php?p=145&pm=212

... then it is clear there was some word before MIN or some letters attached to MIN.

Every page of the manuscript tends to start in the upper-lefthand corner.

All I can come up with right now, is this:

Samin/Semin= together (DU: samen) (or Tosemin (DU: tesamen) , but there is no space for 4 extra letters)

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-S.pdf

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-T.pdf

But that sounds even worse, lol.

.

I see a word in the text - on page 100.44 last word, line 7 down - BIMIN - maybe it was that... just the word I mean, not that part of the page behind it.

Edited April 9, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Otharus]

From the website of the publisher of the Southafrican translation of the OLB, by Adriaan Snyman (1998):

( http://vaandel.co.za/?page_id=12 , underlinings by me )

"Tydens 'n Volkekundige Kongres in Parys, Frankryk, het 'n taalkenner uit Istanboel die kongreslede laat regop sit toe hy aan die hand van Die Oera Linda Boek 'bewys' het dat Afrikaans se wortels direk na hierdie ou beskawing teruggevoer kan word."

translated:

"At an ethnological congress in Paris, a language expert from Istanbul shook up the Congress members when he used the book to 'prove' that the roots of the Dutch-Afrikan language can directly be traced back to this ancient civilization."

=> Can anyone tell me who this Turkish language expert might have been?

[The Puzzler]

I would argue that zone of influence of Frisians in fact correlates with spread of clade U-106 of haplogroup R1b

and also, talking about how the Franks claimed a Trojan heritage...

in fact, in Serbia name for Franks seems to have been Fruzi (Frug for singular), which is very alike to word for Phrygia

The mountain's name derives from the old Serbian name for the Frankish people: Fruzi (sing. Frug; adj. Fruški). The literal translation of "Fruška Gora" would be "the Frankish Mountain". It received this name due to its function as a natural border during Frankish campaigns. During the time of the Roman Empire, its name was Alma Mons ("Fertile Mount").

Thus, Franks might indeed origin from Phrygians

By similarity of tribal name Frisians might as well origin from Phryigians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruska_gora

[Abramelin]

From the website of the publisher of the Southafrican translation of the OLB, by Adriaan Snyman (1998):

( http://vaandel.co.za/?page_id=12 , underlinings by me )

"Tydens 'n Volkekundige Kongres in Parys, Frankryk, het 'n taalkenner uit Istanboel die kongreslede laat regop sit toe hy aan die hand van Die Oera Linda Boek 'bewys' het dat Afrikaans se wortels direk na hierdie ou beskawing teruggevoer kan word."

translated:

"At an ethnological congress in Paris, a language expert from Istanbul shook up the Congress members when he used the book to 'prove' that the roots of the Dutch-Afrikan language can directly be traced back to this ancient civilization."

=> Can anyone tell me who this Turkish language expert might have been?

I remember you (??) posted that line in a YouTube video about the OLB.

I asked then, you ask now, and no one seems to know. I know I googled every possible line in Dutch and English, but found nothing. Maybe it's in some report of that congress, but not online.