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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

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Phaeacians =>> FAEASIANS as far as I know, which to me sounds like someone who can't pronounce R saying Frisians to me.

Homer tells us that Ulysses was the only survivor of his expedition. So, all the stories and fantasies came from him.

Poor o'l Ulysses, therefore, either had a speach impediment or, more than likely, he was motherless drunk when he told the story.

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The location of the Phaeacians was probably Sicily. The King of the Phaeacians in Homer is Alcinous (whereas the OLB tells us that the Frisians had no hereditary monarchy at the time). But we also know that Jason and the Argonauts visited a king named Alcinous at Drepane in Sicily. Since both these kings were married to a woman named Arete, they were probably the same person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcinous

As I said, all the stories and fantasies around his expedition originated with Ulysses himself. He spiced up his tale with monsters, nymphs, kings, etc.

After having been away from home for 20 years, our honourable, celibate hero had to come up with a very good story to pacify his loving, faithful wife. Why would he spoil such a tragic and heroic account with facts? That noble elixir of the vine also worked some mischief around his memory on those countless feasts afterwards when he entertained his admiring guests(who were equally under the spell of the potion).

Edited by Alewyn

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As I said, all the stories and fantasies around his expedition originated with Ulysses himself. He spiced up his tale with monsters, nymphs, kings, etc.

After having been away from home for 20 years, our honourable, celibate hero had to come up with a very good story to pacify his loving, faithful wife. Why would he spoil such a tragic and heroic account with facts? That noble elixir of the vine also worked some mischief around his memory on those countless feasts afterwards when he entertained his admiring guests(who were equally under the spell of the potion).

Once again I don't often get involved on here since I had never heard of the OLB until I read about it on here but I follow the thread through the labyrinth like many others appear to do.

However there are times when I feel the need to chip in. Hence I think you all should widen the scope of your search when it comes to linguistic connections/values. Here in good old blightey the language can change so dramatically today from region to region as to be difficult to near incomprehensible depending where and who I talk to. Good work lads much appreciated.

Edited by Flashbangwollap

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Homer tells us that Ulysses was the only survivor of his expedition. So, all the stories and fantasies came from him.

Poor o'l Ulysses, therefore, either had a speach impediment or, more than likely, he was motherless drunk when he told the story.

:lol: You made my day, Alewyn, and I think you are right.

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... the people who created the SEMafoor site are convinced that the OLB is a hoax...

... people who where convinced of Delahaye telling the truth, advised Delahaye NOT to use the OLB to prove his point, because no scientist would ever take him seriously if he did. And it took them great pains to convince him...

If there are (SEM-) people who believe OLB is or might be authentic, they would usually keep this a secret, as they don't want to loose their credibility.

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There is something else that I have been wondering about for some time and perhaps somebody could help out.

During Ulysses’ stay in Scheria, the land of the Phaeacians, Homer said the following:

“…she happened to catch her father just as he was going out to attend a meeting of the town council, which the Phaeacian aldermen had convened. She stopped him and said:

Papa dear, could you manage to let me have a good big wagon?’”

The words “aldermen”, “Papa” and perhaps “town council” seem very Germanic to me. Does anyone know whether Homer or any other ancient writer used these terms in connection with people other than the Phaeacians, such as for example the Greeks, Egyptians, Persians,etc.?

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In The OT & reflected in NT the Hebrews governmental types. A chain of responsibility's for each type of citizen or burgh for short. A Nasi was a Head of a Burgh. A rabbi was one who free of all societal agreements to teach. etc.. There's between 9-12 of them in 2 different lists. Dutch is close to Germanic and it is close to Hebrew. And anything like Bergers de Arcadie or Pre-Suffix like. As Type not type but like type word. Shepards and the other one. 4 2 each, or 3 in 1's.

Edited by KillCarneyKlansman

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HÊRA: TO HEAR (NL: HOREN)

hêra [p.6,7,38,95,97,111,133,136,152]

~ hêrade [p.136,195] (heard, NL: hoorde)

~ heradon [p.86] (heard, NL: hoorden)

~ hêradon [p.122,135] ,,

~ hêradon [p.190] (hired, NL: huurden) [error?]

~ hêrad [p.97,130(2x),141] (heard, NL: gehoord)

~ hêrath [p.9] ,,

~ hêrich [p.24,39,155] ('hearing', NL: gehoorzaam)

~ ~ hêrichhêd [p.87] obedience (NL: gehoorzaamheid)

~ ~ ~ overhêrichhêd [p.136] disobedience (NL: ongehoorzaamheid)

~ hêriga [p.11] ('hearing', NL: gehoorzame)

~ hêroga [p.34] ,,

hêra [p.15,71,102] (belong, NL: (be-)horen)

~ hêrath [p.71,199] (belonged. NL: (be-)hoord)

TOTAL HÊR = HEAR: 32X

[p.006] sâ thåt allera månnalik thåt hêra machte

[p.007] Annen sanâka kvn hju kruppa hêra

[p.009] togrâjande vmbe hêrath to wårthande

[p.011] Hêriga bårn

[p.015] That send tha êwa thêr to thêra burgum hêra

[p.024] sâ mot mån sin folgar hêrich wêsa

[p.034] jvwer hêroga thjanra, wisa Hellênia.

[p.038] allermannalik, thêr hja hêra wilde

[p.039] that wi hjara tjvth over hêrich mâkad hêde

[p.071] jef tha fêre Krêkalanda to tha erva Fryas hêra

[p.071] ne hêrath hja navt thêr to

[p.086] Tha hja vppa vnfordene skêpa heradon, that thene Mâgy vrdrvnken was

[p.087] hlip alrik thrvch vr ekkdrum ånd thêr nêre lônger nên hêrichhêd ni bod

[p.095] Wel, hja willath Adelas wisdom hêra.

[p.097] hju hêde hjara hwop [hrop] hêrad

[p.097] Kvm âthe sâ mêist hjara wishêd hêra.

[p.102] vsa gâst ånd al vsa bithånkinga, thissa ne hêra navt to thet wêsa.

[p.111] Was thêr hwa thêr hêra wilde ånd bigripa machte

[p.122] As hja hêradon thåt hja mith moste

[p.130] Thêr hêdon hja fon thêre kêse hêrad ånd nw hêdon hja thet stolta swêrd antjan

[p.130] ik selva håv hêrad, ho hja thi an hropte.

[p.133] Håvon hja bêden sa ne mêi nimman him rora ni hêra lêta.

[p.135] Fon hjam hêradon hja kålta vr êlika frydom ånd rjucht ånd overa êwa

[p.136] tha drochtna send tornich overa overhêrichhêd thêra bosa

[p.136] Sin forstân wêre sâ grât thåt er ella forstânde hwat er sâ ånd hêrade.

[p.136] Hja moston herda thinga hêra

[p.141] Tha êwa thêr Wralda bi-t anfang in vs mod lêide, skilun allêna hêrad wertha

[p.152] sin stem hêra to lêtane bi fara thêr bisloten wårth bi t kjasa ênre forste

[p.155] Adel was hêrich

[p.190] Fori thene skåt, tham thêrof kêm, hêradon hja vrlandiska salt-âtha

[p.195] Fon to ne hêrade mån nimmar mâra ovir êlika rjucht petârja.

[p.199] Tha hêinda Krêkalanda håvon vs to fara allêna to hêrath

To be precise, here's two that I missed:

~ hêroch [p.3,72] ('hearing' or obedient, NL: gehoorzaam)

[p.003] hja moston thene Magy hêroch wertha

[p.072] tjûgande that hja thêrlan ella frêja machte alsa naka hja hêroch bilewon

... and I forgot to add this list:

(Dutch) horen =

(German) hören =

(Danish) høre =

(Swedish) höra =

(Norwegian) hører =

(Icelandic) heyra =

(English) to hear

(And thanks Flash, for your kind words.)

Edited by Otharus

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I do not believe that is correct.

Your source please.

Phi (uppercase Φ, lowercase φ or math symbol ϕ), pronounced /ˈfaɪ/ or sometimes /ˈfiː/ in English,[1] and [ˈfi] in modern Greek, is the 21st letter of the Greek alphabet. In modern Greek, it represents [f], a voiceless labiodental fricative. In Ancient Greek it represented [pʰ], an aspirated voiceless bilabial plosive (from which English ultimately inherits the spelling "ph" in words derived from Greek).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi

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There is something else that I have been wondering about for some time and perhaps somebody could help out.

During Ulysses’ stay in Scheria, the land of the Phaeacians, Homer said the following:

“…she happened to catch her father just as he was going out to attend a meeting of the town council, which the Phaeacian aldermen had convened. She stopped him and said:

Papa dear, could you manage to let me have a good big wagon?’”

The words “aldermen”, “Papa” and perhaps “town council” seem very Germanic to me. Does anyone know whether Homer or any other ancient writer used these terms in connection with people other than the Phaeacians, such as for example the Greeks, Egyptians, Persians,etc.?

They're just translations from the Greek. But in any case, the words "Papa" and "council" aren't Germanic, even in English. They're both from Latin.

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I did exams Gymnasium in it and I also don't agree with C = K; that is with Latin, but not in the Vatican tradition.

Phaeacians =>> FAEASIANS as far as I know, which to me sounds like someone who can't pronounce R saying Frisians to me.

The "k" is the Greek kappa, which is never pronounced as "s". And, as I've said, phi, in Ancient Greek, is pronounced as a hard "p", followed by a "h".

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Homer tells us that Ulysses was the only survivor of his expedition. So, all the stories and fantasies came from him.

Poor o'l Ulysses, therefore, either had a speach impediment or, more than likely, he was motherless drunk when he told the story.

Well, to be honest, I have been playing with all of you.

I KNOW how it must be pronounced...

From the Dutch Wiki:

De Faiaken, of ook wel gespeld als Phaeaken of Phaeacen (Grieks: Phaièkes Φαίηκες, of Phaiakes Φαίακες)

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faiaken

I don't think anyone needs a translation here...

But to be short: Ulysses had no speech impediment, and some here love to twist facts, hoping no one will find out.

Φαίηκες/Φαίακες

classical_attic.gif

Btw, Tony could be right: a -Ph- with the -h- softly aspirated could easily change into a -P-

--

Phaeax (Greek: Φαίαξ), in Greek mythology, was a son of Poseidon and Cercyra, from whom the Phaeacians derived their name.[1] Conon[2] calls him the father of Alcinous and Locrus.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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:lol: You made my day, Alewyn, and I think you are right.

Heh, no, he is wrong.

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But to be short: Ulysses had no speech impediment, and some here love to twist facts, hoping no one will find out.

Lol. Then he was drunk.

For your benefit (and where aplicable) I shall add in future: "The following is a joke" or " The following is said tongue-in-cheek." I am certain most other readers saw it that way.

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Lol. Then he was drunk.

For your benefit (and where aplicable) I shall add in future: "The following is a joke" or " The following is said tongue-in-cheek." I am certain most other readers saw it that way.

I know you were kidding, but the fact remains you are wrong about the Phaeacians being nobody else but the Frisians, based on your erroneous pronounciation of the Greek word.

I thought that was kind of funny too, as most other readers will have understood.

:P

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Another thing: I have repeatedly posted here about writers who are convinced Homer's Illias and Odyssey took place in England/North Sea region/the Atlantic (De Grave, Cailleux, Gideon, Wilkins and others) or in the Baltic (Vinci), or in both the Baltic and the North Sea, and the Danish area specifically (Spanuth).

Most base their theories on Homer; it's only Wilkins who considers the OLB to be a reliable source.

OK, some quotes from Wilkin's book (Troy in England):

THE SEA PEOPLES (Thirteenth century BC)

Egyptian names (Likely origin)

Dardany Dardanians (Trojans from England)

Denyen Danaans (Danes, Achaeans from Scandinavia)

Tjekker People from the region of lake Tjeuker

(Frisia, north Netherlands)

Peleset Pelasgians (people from Belgium and northern France)

Shekelesh Sikele (people probably from south-west France)

(1992).

http://phdamste.tripod.com/trojan.html

THE SEA PEOPLES (Thirteenth century BC)

Egyptian names (Likely origin)

Dardany (Dardanians - Trojans from England, Dardanus being an ancestor of King Priam)

Denyen (Danaans - Danes, people from Scandinavia)

Tjekker (People from England, Teucer being an ancestor of King Priam)

Peleset (Pelasgians - "who dwell on the sea" people from the Low Countries)

Shikala (Sikule - "who live on ships", people from western France)

Note: The above table updated to 2005 version.

(...)

As to the date of the Trojan War, it is generally assumed that the event took place around 1200BC although estimates vary widely. Eratosthenes placed the destruction of Troy in 1184BC on genealogical grounds. This comes quite close to the date of Odysseus' visit to the Low Countries just after the destruction of Troy as recorded by the Frisian Oera Linda Book, better known in England under the title 'The Other Atlantis'. Converted to the Christian calendar this would have been in 1188BC, implying that the war had started in 1198BC, a date also compatible with the foundation of New Troy around 1100BC by Aeneas' great-grandson.

http://www.troy-in-england.co.uk/trojan-kings-of-england/trojan-kings-of-england.htm

-

Pelasgians = flatlanders/sea people:

Julius Pokorny[9] derives Pelasgoi from *pelag-skoi (Flachlandbewohner, or "flatland-inhabitants"); specifically, Bewohner der thessalischen Ebene ("Inhabitants of the Thessalian plain"). The Indo-European root is *plāk-, "flat."[10] Pokorny details a previous derivation, which appears in English at least as early as William Gladstone's Studies on Homer and the Homeric Age, 1858.[11] If the Pelasgians were not Indo-Europeans, the name in this derivation must have been assigned by the Hellenes.

The ancient Greek word for sea, pelagos, comes from the same root, *plāk-, as the Doric word plagos, "side" (which is flat), appearing in *pelag-skoi. Ernest Klein therefore simply interprets the same reconstructed form as "the sea men", where the sea is the flat.[12]

Klein's interpretation does not require the Indo-Europeans to have had a word for sea, which living on the inland plains (if they did) they are likely to have lacked. On encountering the sea they simply used the word for plain, "the flat." The flatlanders also could acquire what must have been to the Hellenes a homonym, "the sea men". Best of all, if the Egyptians of the Late Bronze Age encountered maritime marauders under this name they would have translated as Sea peoples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians

-

The conventional explanation for the reliefs of Medinet Habu is that a mass migration of Pereset (Peleset, or Philistines) and other seafaring peoples swept destructively around the eastern Mediterraean basin in the early 12th century BCE. Supposedly they fled some vague turmoil in the Aegean area, ravaged the Hittite empire, destroyed cities on the coast of Syria, and invaded Egypt but were repelled by Ramses III. The Egyptian word for Pereset (basically P-r-s-t) can be interpreted as either Pereset or Peleset because the hieroglyph for “r” could be pronounced as an “l”. However, it was usual to read the hieroglyph as an “r”. The preferred reading of the Egyptian word would be Pereset, not Peleset, but for more than a century, the identification of the Pereset with the biblical Philistines has led many scholars to write the word as Peleset. This identification appears to have been a huge mistake.

http://drchris.me/higgaion/?p=1192

From what I learned surfing the web, many think the "Prst" were the Persians.

Well, knowing you all want to find a reference to the Frisians in ancient manuscripts, I assume you would like to equate the "Prst" with these Frisians.

But hey, did the Frisians - or better, Frya's People - carry that name, Frisian (or something sounding similar), around 1300 BC (Medinet Habu)?? Or around 800 BC (Homer)?

You will remember that the OLB tells us Frya's People carried MANY NAMES...

.

Edited by Abramelin

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This is what I posted before:

(Pretonic) Brits << Frisii << Phruisii >> Prusii (Prutonic)

............................................V.....................................

............................................V.....................................

..........................................Parisii..................................

What next, Persians (or even the Farsi)??

Lo and behold, didn't the ancient Frisian legends (not the OLB) talk about Friso coming from that area (he was a Zoroastrian)?

..sigh..

...........................Farsi....................................

.............................^.....................................

.............................^.....................................

Brits << Frisii << Phruisii >> Prusii

.................................V.....................................

.................................V.....................................

..............................Parisii.................................

In case you people do not get it.... using words that are somewhat similar sounding, you can create the most astonishing history.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Personally, I think if we ever find the original accounts of Pytheas of Massalia (that is, NOT the version by Pliny the Elder), only then we will know a lot more about who inhabited the ancient Frisian territories, and what these people were called:

Pytheas of Massalia or (using the Latin form) Massilia (Ancient Greek Πυθέας ὁ Μασσαλιώτης) (4th century BC), was a Greek geographer and explorer from the Greek colony, Massalia (modern day Marseilles). He made a voyage of exploration to northwestern Europe at about 325 BC. He travelled around and visited a considerable part of Great Britain. Some of his observations may be the earliest report of Stonehenge. Pytheas is the first person on record to describe the Midnight Sun, polar ice, Germanic and possibly Finnic tribes. He is the one who introduced the idea of distant Thule to the geographic imagination. His account of the tides is the earliest to state they are caused by the moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas

He must have visited Frya's empire during the time (or just before) of the return of Friso (the OLB version of Friso that is).

.

Edited by Abramelin

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OK, some quotes from Wilkin's book (Troy in England):

THE SEA PEOPLES (Thirteenth century BC)

Egyptian names (Likely origin)

Dardany Dardanians (Trojans from England)

Denyen Danaans (Danes, Achaeans from Scandinavia)

Tjekker People from the region of lake Tjeuker

(Frisia, north Netherlands)

Peleset Pelasgians (people from Belgium and northern France)

Shekelesh Sikele (people probably from south-west France)

(1992).

I feel like I am in a 'flow' now, lol (alcohol is my guide... sorry Saru, I do my best to not post like an idiot).

The "Tjeuker Meer", or Tjeuker Lake, is a lake in present day Friesland.

It didn't exist 3500 years ago, and I must give credit to Wilkins that he corrected his interpretation of what he posted about it before.

But then I remembered... Tacitus wrote about the Chaucians, a tribe neighbouring the Frisii.

Chaucii.. that's pronounced like "Tsyowkee" for you English speaking people.

And that is very close to "Tjeuker", or Tyee-oowker...

It is said that the Chaucians were nothing but another tribe of the Ingaevones (Tacitus), like the Frisii.

Say, Otharus, do you know how to explain the Dutch -eu- sound to the English??

,

Edited by Abramelin

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Well, to be honest, ...

Honest people don't say that.

Φαίηκες/Φαίακες

Seeing the original spelling, I remember having translated parts of that, some 25 years ago.

I was more interested in φιλοσοφία (no not pilosopia, Tony).

C followed by e, i or y is pronounced S, so I was right when I said that Phaeacians is pronounced FAEASIANS.

In Archaic Latin, it's different:

The letter ‹C› was the western form of the Greek gamma, but it was used for the sounds /ɡ/ and /q/ alike, possibly under the influence of Etruscan, which lacked any voiced plosives. Later, probably during the 3rd century BC, the letter ‹Z› — unneeded to write Latin proper — was replaced with the new letter ‹G›, a ‹C› modified with a small vertical stroke, which took its place in the alphabet. From then on, ‹G› represented the voiced plosive /ɡ/, while ‹C› was generally reserved for the voiceless plosive /k/. The letter ‹K› was used only rarely, in a small number of words such as Kalendae, often interchangeably with ‹C›.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet

The translators/ transliterators who changed Φαίηκες/Φαίακες into Phaeacians must have been drunk.

If they would stick more to the original, there would be less confusion.

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How can similar words like Freya, Frey, Frian, Frisian not be mixed with this Phoenician, Fenni, Finns, Fein like word?

Edited by KillCarneyKlansman

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I know you were kidding, but the fact remains you are wrong about the Phaeacians being nobody else but the Frisians, based on your erroneous pronounciation of the Greek word.

I thought that was kind of funny too, as most other readers will have understood.

:P

Personally it doesn't seem that the word Frisian would have been around until Friso came on the scene and I think they used the words Fryans, NOT Frisians for quite a while.

If you check the OLB where the English has Frisian the text only has Fryas.

eg:

HERE ARE THE RULES ESTABLISHED FOR THE SECURITY OF ALL FRISIANS

Hyr send tha rjuchta aller fryas vmbe sêkur to wêsande.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ak

It would appear to me then, that the Phaeacians name would not be a form of the word Frisians or vice versa....?

Edited by The Puzzler

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I'm pondering time again wondering how the OLB fits properly.

Plato says that Achaemenes is Perse, the son of Perseus and Andromeda.

We know Achaemenes, the real ancestor of the Persians lived circa 700BC.

That would make Perseus have lived around 740BC.

That is Perseus, lived c. 740BC. He comes before Heracles or anyone else of importance in Greek heroism or events.

If Perseus is placed in time at 740BC in reality, according to what Plato knew, how could the Trojan War for example be in 1200BC which was certainly after Perseus time?

No real evidence come from the area of Colchis or Phrygia for such early timeframes like 1200BC.

Apply that to everything else in Greek timeframes. Seems to me we have conditioned time to place everything back way too far. Maybe that was Plato's joke on us with his Atlantis story.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Sven - svn - boy

Remember, not a Latin written word but a Scandinavian word for boy - svn, I say.

Okke min svn

Who thinks that says Latin(svn)son or Scandinavian svn(son)?

Just to clarify the transliteration given by Ottema clearly shows the use of V and U.

Ut-a skrifta Minnos.

Tha-k althus wêi faren was mith mina ljvd fon Athenia

What about Vnder? Should it be Under and Vnder is a bad example of Latin being used in this 'obviously' faked book?

Vnder hira tid heth Finda âk en skrift utfvnden, men thaet wêre sa hâgfàrende aend fvl mith frisla aend krolum,

vnder

1.(obsolete) Under.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vnder

Anyone attempting to do any translating of the OLB should really take note of this.

-----------------------

To add:

I haven't looked up the original Tresoar and anyone can do so and point it out if it's different but Ottema also has transliterated the word bedroom as bedrUm, not bedrVm, which was what I wanted to know...

Since he has bedrum here it must mean that this time the word is RUM, which does mean space.

Clearly the words with a v in them, mean V and the words with u mean U.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Personally it doesn't seem that the word Frisian would have been around until Friso came on the scene and I think they used the words Fryans, NOT Frisians for quite a while.

If you check the OLB where the English has Frisian the text only has Fryas.

That's what I said in one of my latest posts.

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