Abramelin Posted March 22, 2011 #3676 Share Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) Well, you're the one really working here, lol. About that FLYBURCH... have you thought about how 'terps' (artificial mounds) are being called in Zeeland (a Dutch province): VLIEDBERG !! http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vliedberg I have never connected the two, but when you mentioned Flyburg and Over the Scheldt, I thought: Bingo! I forgot to say that VLIED means "flight", and "BERG" means hill or mountain. A VLIEDBERG was an artificial mound where people could flee to when the area they lived in got flooded. Otharus said: "The "Fly-" of the name "Flyburch" cannot refer to the (same) river Fly as from the Flymar and the Flymvda elsewhere in the text. It probably means "flee" here as in "to escape". " But I will have to add, that a VLIEDBERG was also an alternative name for a medieval 'motte castle'.... . Edited March 22, 2011 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 22, 2011 #3677 Share Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) Sorry for stretching this, but I have guests. And while they are arguing in the other room (watching a boxing match), I keep thinking, lol. OK, an example of a 'vliedberg' and maybe a 'flyburg' : I know, it doesn't look much like an OLB 'citadel', but this is how these artificial mounds REALLY looked like (with houses/churches on top), and it is my idea that the creators of the OLB just transplanted what they knew of medieval Dutch history to an era a thousand or more years ago. Btw, several of these 'vliedbergs' developed into something like this (Domburg): http://dtownlocals.blogspot.com/2011/03/domburg.html . Edited March 22, 2011 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3678 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Puzz will love this... one of those 'vliedbergs' was called "Troy Mountain": http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Vliedberg_Berg_van_Troje.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3679 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Transliteration by Ottema: As tha bêda nêva-t-althus navt ênes wrde koste, gvng Tünis to aend stek en râde fône in-t strând, aend Inka êne blâwe. Thêr aefter macht jahwêder kjasa, hwam ek folgja wilde, aend wonder, by Inka thêr en gryns hêde vmbe tha kaeningar fon Findas folk to thjanja, hlipon tha mâsta Finna aend Mâgjara ovir. As hja nw thaet folk tellath aend tha skêpa thêr nêi dêlath hêde, tha skêdon tha flâta fon ekkorum; fon nêf Tünis is aefternêi tâl kêmen, fon nêf Inka ninmer. Translation using the Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch: As tha beda neva ‘t ‘althvs navt enes wrde koste , gvng Tvnis to and stek en rade fone in ‘t strand , and Inka ene blawe . Ther after macht iahweder kiasa , hwam ek folgia wilde , and wonder , bi Inka ther en grins hede vmbe tha kaningar fon Findas folk to thiania , hlipon tha masta Finna and Magiara ovir . As hia nw that folk tellath and tha skepa ther nei delath hede , tha skedon tha flata fon ekkorvm; fon nef Tvnis is afternei tal kemen , fon nef Inka ninmer . You still think it's Norse?? http://www.rodinbook.nl/testuzelf.html ++++++++++ EDIT: This is the intro by Menno Knul: Dutch: Hieronder is een willekeurige passage uit het Oera Linda Boek afgedrukt om aan te tonen, dat iedereen, die zich de moeite wil getroosten, het boek zonder enig probleem en bijna zonder woordenboek in het zogenaamde Oudfries kan lezen en begrijpen. Taal en spelling lijken namelijk alleen maar op het Oudfries, maar zijn het niet. Er is zelfs geen sprake van een vertaling, maar van een woord-voor-woord omzetting van een moderne Friese tekst in iets wat qua spelling en uitgangen voor Oudfries doorgaat. Ook de woordvolgorde blijft gehandhaaft. Omzetting van de tekst conform het DRW (Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch) maakt een en ander nog inzichtelijker. Let wel, het gaat hierbij niet om onverwacht modern aandoende uitdrukkingen, die in de literatuur worden gesignaleerd, maar om een normale tekst in het Oera Linda Boek. English: Below is a random passage from the Oera Linda Book to show that anyone who wants to sustain the effort, can read and understand the book almost without any problem and without the so-called Old Frisian dictionary. Language and spelling only seem to be in Old Frisian, but are not. There is not even a question of translation, but a word-for-word conversion of a modern Frisian text into something resembling spelling and outputs for Old Frisian . The word order remains the same too. Translating the text under the DRW (Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch) will produce an even clearer insight. Note that it is not about surprisingly modern sounding phrases, which are reported in the literature, but a normal text in the Oera Linda Book. http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~cd2/drw/ . My brain hurts today, what's the point this post is making...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3680 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) You can read a lot more about Attila/Atli here: http://www.timelessmyths.com/norse/german.html And yeah, those sailors were lazy speakers, like Plato.. Yes, Plato says At, if it's the same place, it would have been Aldland. But Plato says it's named after Atlas, so we get the At sound there, maybe that was Aldlas, which then makes me think his name is based in the word Old, like Wralda, it has the Ald in there as well.... Not saying Atlas is Wralda, just saying that both do have Old in their name if At las is a form of Ald (las). EDIT: Yes, I do think that this Aldland is probably the Atlantis spoken of by Plato. Edited March 23, 2011 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3681 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Yes, Plato says At, if it's the same place, it would have been Aldland. But Plato says it's named after Atlas, so we get the At sound there, maybe that was Aldlas, which then makes me think his name is based in the word Old, like Wralda, it has the Ald in there as well.... Not saying Atlas is Wralda, just saying that both do have Old in their name if At las is a form of Ald (las). Jeesh, I know you said a couple of times that I talk in a cryptic way (must be my command of the English language), but I really DO hope you understand I was kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3682 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) My brain hurts today, what's the point this post is making...? .......sigh............ then you better stop reading for a couple of days... LOL My point, and I quote what I quoted: "Below is a random passage from the Oera Linda Book to show that anyone who wants to sustain the effort, can read and understand the book almost without any problem and without the so-called Old Frisian dictionary. Language and spelling only seem to be in Old Frisian, but are not. There is not even a question of translation, but a word-for-word conversion of a modern Frisian text into something resembling spelling and outputs for Old Frisian . The word order remains the same too. Translating the text under the DRW (Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch) will produce an even clearer insight. Note that it is not about surprisingly modern sounding phrases, which are reported in the literature, but a normal text in the Oera Linda Book" , Edited March 23, 2011 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3683 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Puzz will love this... one of those 'vliedbergs' was called "Troy Mountain": http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Vliedberg_Berg_van_Troje.JPG Yeah, really exciting... I have a terrible head cold so I'm a bit off today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3684 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) .......sigh............ then you better stop reading for a couple of days... LOL My point, and I quote what I quoted: "Below is a random passage from the Oera Linda Book to show that anyone who wants to sustain the effort, can read and understand the book almost without any problem and without the so-called Old Frisian dictionary. Language and spelling only seem to be in Old Frisian, but are not. There is not even a question of translation, but a word-for-word conversion of a modern Frisian text into something resembling spelling and outputs for Old Frisian . The word order remains the same too. Translating the text under the DRW (Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch) will produce an even clearer insight. Note that it is not about surprisingly modern sounding phrases, which are reported in the literature, but a normal text in the Oera Linda Book" , I think I should go back to bed....lol Anyways, I missed alot of this thread in the last week and it's very hard to follow if you miss any so excuse me for not quite getting some points. So it's saying it's Old Frisian really, some form of it, Ottema thought it was Old Frisian too - like the modern Frisian can be read as Old Frisian... EDIT: (Wait for my edits, as you would also say..) Like I wrote a story and then had someone put it into Old English writing when they copied it down...? Edited March 23, 2011 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3685 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Yeah, really exciting... I have a terrible head cold so I'm a bit off today. Be glad it's just a cold. I haven't slept for 72 hours. But being an insomniac is great for this thread, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3686 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Jeesh, I know you said a couple of times that I talk in a cryptic way (must be my command of the English language), but I really DO hope you understand I was kidding. Yeah, but it makes me think - if Plato was saying it as the Greeks said it At not Ald, it really would be Aldland and so how would it be named after Atlas... no need to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3687 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Be glad it's just a cold. I haven't slept for 72 hours. But being an insomniac is great for this thread, LOL. Yeah, was wondering cause usually no-one is here at this time, I go through the day talking to myself here usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3688 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I think I should go back to bed....lol Anyways, I missed alot of this thread in the last week and it's very hard to follow if you miss any so excuse me for not quite getting some points. So it's saying it's Old Frisian really, some form of it, Ottema thought it was Old Frisian too - like the modern Frisian can be read as Old Frisian... No, it says it is NOT Old Frisian, but that it's a made-up language made to RESEMBLE Old Frisian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3689 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Yeah, but it makes me think - if Plato was saying it as the Greeks said it At not Ald, it really would be Aldland and so how would it be named after Atlas... no need to answer. ALD, ADL.... ALDLAND, ADLAND.... I think the change of the order of these letters in the beginning of the name, or dropping one, is not that uncommon. Try it yourself... repeat for yourself very fast the name ALDLAND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3690 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) About that Deutschen Rechtswörterbuch that Menno Knul used to word-for-word "translate" the OLB, this is the part he used of that dictionary: http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~cd2/drw/t/RUSTRING.htm And click on any of the numbers (links) you see on the leftside of the webpage. . Edited March 23, 2011 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3691 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Yeah, was wondering cause usually no-one is here at this time, I go through the day talking to myself here usually. Maybe I should give you my telephone number, if your husband is ok with that, hahaha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbangwollap Posted March 23, 2011 #3692 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Maybe I should give you my telephone number, if your husband is ok with that, hahaha!! Hey cut it out you two. I very often wait around until the early hours to see if there's anything new on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3693 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Well, maybe it is something like that and I am not saying it's straight out Nordic either. I don't know what I'm saying anymore really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3694 Share Posted March 23, 2011 EDIT: (Wait for my edits, as you would also say..) Like I wrote a story and then had someone put it into Old English writing when they copied it down...? Hmm... not exactly. It's like someone translated every word of every sentence you wrote into - let's say - Old Russian, but kept the original English word order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3695 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hey cut it out you two. I very often wait around until the early hours to see if there's anything new on here. lol Good on you Jesse, you too can get as confused as me one day, if you aren't already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3696 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hey cut it out you two. I very often wait around until the early hours to see if there's anything new on here. I think the three of us posted a lot of new stuff. Read it, and have some coffee, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3697 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hmm... not exactly. It's like someone translated every word of every sentence you wrote into - let's say - Old Russian, but kept the original English word order. OK, maybe the writing in the OLB is actually the original language as as the cultures merged around in Europe, this language became changed somewhat, with Dutch and other Germanic changes..the OLB mentions this is a way when telling about how Cornhelia and Kaunch and how the words have been changed, like Atland from Aldland. I wonder if this could explain it... The bulk of the new language the Frisians had adopted was modernised but could be read the same as their original language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbangwollap Posted March 23, 2011 #3698 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) I think the three of us posted a lot of new stuff. Read it, and have some coffee, heh. Puzz no worries it's a total misery mystery to me. I was going to post earlier but it wasn't too much on subject so as usual I left it. Abe I've got coffee running out of my ears. Edited March 23, 2011 by Flashbangwollap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 23, 2011 #3699 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I think the three of us posted a lot of new stuff. Read it, and have some coffee, heh. Lots here to catch up with, Otharus is making some very good posts, I just have to spend some time going back over them before commenting, coffee is great idea, I need coffee. Don't worry Jesse, just say anything, it's only us, you might bring something new into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted March 23, 2011 #3700 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Well, maybe it is something like that and I am not saying it's straight out Nordic either. I don't know what I'm saying anymore really... LOL. This Menno Knul used the Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch, the part about the text of the Rüstringer Codex (Laws), to make a word-for-word translation of the OLB. You will have to admit it looks like a carbon-copy of the original OLB text. No way hosee Norse/Swedish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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