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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

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OK, fine, to you maybe.

When I show you the Celts didn't use winged helmets, does that not matter to you, in any way?

Lol.

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Át the moment I'm more interested in the Phoenician and amber trade info I gave a few posts back in conjunction with the info you gave me about the Minoan artifacts found in Northern Frisia c. Bronze Age.

An interesting thing (and I remember I have posted about it in this thread) is that there were/are also amber deposits in Syria, where the Phoenicians once lived.

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[/Ancient Phoenicians, a hardy sea-faring and commercial race, were probably the first sailors to trade amber among the Mediterranean countries, as well as to pioneer sea routes to the Atlantic shores of northern Europe to obtain amber and exchange it for bronze between the 13th and 6th centuries BC. However amber was probably traded through middlemen with little knowledge of it's place of origin.]

The Phoenicians and Philistines I think are one in the same people. Northerners trading in the Med. Why do we always assume everything radiates from the Med outwards?

There was little to find at all in Italy prior to the Romans and Etruscans. Suddenly everything before this is a cattle farm or some such. It's more or less the same in Greece.

Example where old buildings have been found poking above the ground they get preserved as such. Here in the North it's too late since we have built over old towns for ever with only the outlying villages left resembling anything at all. Round houses of course were made of wood and so we haven't found that many of them out in the sticks.

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When I show you the Celts didn't use winged helmets, does that not matter to you, in any way?

Lol.

No, the point I was making is the same. The winged helmet imo comes from iconography of a bird of the head. Comb you say, Roosters, why not. Swans and Roosters for sure. ;)

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Helmets of the Celts:

Google "celtic" AND "helmet":

http://www.google.nl/images?um=1&hl=nl&safe=off&biw=987&bih=526&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=celtic+helmet&btnG=Zoeken&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=

It appears they either had nothing on their helmets, or sometimes 2 horns.

And something from medwiki:

The horned Waterloo Helmet in the British Museum, which long set the standard for modern images of Celtic warriors, is in fact a unique survival, and may have been a piece for ceremonial rather than military wear.

A statuette in the Museum of Brittany, Rennes, probably depicting Brigantia/Brigid: ca. 1st century AD, with iconography derived from Roman statues of Minerva.

http://medlibrary.org/medwiki/Celt

.

Edited by Abramelin

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No, the point I was making is the same. The winged helmet imo comes from iconography of a bird of the head. Comb you say, Roosters, why not. Swans and Roosters for sure. ;)

Hell, what do you call that thing on the helmet I posted?? And no Celt ever wore that thing on their helmets anyway.

And I think there's a difference between carrying a complete bird (swan) on a helmet and just a couple of wings (which could have belonged to any bird like a raven or falcon.

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An interesting thing (and I remember I have posted about it in this thread) is that there were/are also amber deposits in Syria, where the Phoenicians once lived.

The amber of the Mycenaeans at least has been show scientifically to be Baltic amber. It's not from Syria, it's not from the Balkans either.

Some historians believe amber was known to Assyrians even in the days of Ninevah (c. 2000BC). A broken obelisk in the form of a tapered 4 sided shaft of stone inscribed with Assyrian cuneiform was found in the 19th century. It translated as:

In the sea of changeable winds (indicating the Persian Gulf)

His merchants fished for pearls

In the sea where the North Star culminates (indicating the Baltic Sea)

They fish for yellow amber

I don't think Syria is where the North Star culminates either so the people of Ninevah writing this must have known about amber coming from the Baltic.

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Helmets of the Celts:

Google "celtic" AND "helmet":

http://www.google.nl...aqi=g1&aql=&oq=

It appears they either had nothing on their helmets, or sometimes 2 horns.

And something from medwiki:

The horned Waterloo Helmet in the British Museum, which long set the standard for modern images of Celtic warriors, is in fact a unique survival, and may have been a piece for ceremonial rather than military wear.

A statuette in the Museum of Brittany, Rennes, probably depicting Brigantia/Brigid: ca. 1st century AD, with iconography derived from Roman statues of Minerva.

http://medlibrary.org/medwiki/Celt

Yeah I have to agree with that. I can see them decorating them with plumes and dead birds wings perhaps but not in any permanent way. Indeed a but like the early Romans.

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The amber of the Mycenaeans at least has been show scientifically to be Baltic amber. It's not from Syria, it's not from the Balkans either.

Some historians believe amber was known to Assyrians even in the days of Ninevah (c. 2000BC). A broken obelisk in the form of a tapered 4 sided shaft of stone inscribed with Assyrian cuneiform was found in the 19th century. It translated as:

In the sea of changeable winds (indicating the Persian Gulf)

His merchants fished for pearls

In the sea where the North Star culminates (indicating the Baltic Sea)

They fish for yellow amber

I don't think Syria is where the North Star culminates either so the people of Ninevah writing this must have known about amber coming from the Baltic.

Could be.. or they meant the Black Sea, and traded with people there:

assyria.gif

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A statuette in the Museum of Brittany, Rennes, probably depicting Brigantia/Brigid: ca. 1st century AD, with iconography derived from Roman statues of Minerva.[/i]

http://medlibrary.org/medwiki/Celt

.

That's right, like I said - Minerva, Athena has a Doric Swan on her head.

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Yeah I have to agree with that. I can see them decorating them with plumes and dead birds wings perhaps but not in any permanent way. Indeed a but like the early Romans.

Well, first, they didn't do it, and second, it would not be very practical in battle.

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Could be.. or they meant the Black Sea, and traded with people there:

assyria.gif

I don't think yellow amber is found in the Black Sea nor is it where the North Star culminates.

Edited by The Puzzler

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That's right, like I said - Minerva, Athena has a Doric Swan on her head.

Yeah, but we are here talking about the OLB, remember? lol

And the suggestion is that Minerva came from the north, but here they say the statue is based on the Roman Minerva, and that it is far too recent for the OLB Minerva.

If they found a similar statue in England dating from a 1000 BC, ah, then we would have something.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I don't think yellow amber is found in the Black Sea nor is it where the North Star culminates.

I said TRADED.

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I said TRADED.

Our posts:

The amber of the Mycenaeans at least has been show scientifically to be Baltic amber. It's not from Syria, it's not from the Balkans either.

Some historians believe amber was known to Assyrians even in the days of Ninevah (c. 2000BC). A broken obelisk in the form of a tapered 4 sided shaft of stone inscribed with Assyrian cuneiform was found in the 19th century. It translated as:

In the sea of changeable winds (indicating the Persian Gulf)

His merchants fished for pearls

In the sea where the North Star culminates (indicating the Baltic Sea)

They fish for yellow amber

I don't think Syria is where the North Star culminates either so the people of Ninevah writing this must have known about amber coming from the Baltic.

Could be.. or they meant the Black Sea, and traded with people there:

-----------

You quoted the poem which said about yellow amber and the North Star and say maybe they meant the Black Sea...

It doesn't say traded, it says they fished it out of the sea.

They specifically speak of knowing about it being in the North Sea and being yellow amber in the times of Ninevah.

They certainly could have traded it at the Black Sea since the river systems head to it, more than likely a given.

Colchis itself on the Black Sea somewhere imo is also an amber city. Aia, Kingdom of Helios.

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Yeah, but we are here talking about the OLB, remember? lol

And the suggestion is that Minerva came from the north, but here they say the statue is based on the Roman Minerva, and that it is far too recent for the OLB Minerva.

If they found a similar statue in England dating from a 1000 BC, ah, then we would have something.

.

It seems the statue making only came about once these beastly priests wrangled some kind of devotion to them, so they could keep the tributes of course.

Many cultures did not worship statues. Minerva may have came into Rome through the Etruscans and they might have created her image first because they had a powerful priestly class, that does not mean she didn't exist in the other cultures that didn't go around making false God statues.

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Athena the BIRD Goddess. If you're wondering why Athena would have a bird on her head.

Some authors[citation needed] believe that, in early times, Athena was either an owl herself or a bird goddess in general: in Book 3 of the Odyssey, she takes the form of a sea-eagle. These authors argue that she dropped her prophylactic owl-mask before she lost her wings. "Athena, by the time she appears in art," Jane Ellen Harrison had remarked, "has completely shed her animal form, has reduced the shapes she once wore of snake and bird to attributes, but occasionally in black-figure vase-paintings she still appears with wings."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena

I'll back off on Athena's being a swan, it's still a bird though and the iconology is still the same, just changed for the particular culture in question. From owl to swan. I never said Athena herself was a Gaul anyway, I'm going on her being Min-erva as per the OLB book. It says owl. By the time she transferred into Gaul, from Greece (from the mouth of the Rhine) she had been given the Gaul iconology rather than her owl/eagle one.

Bed for me, ciao for now people.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Our posts:

The amber of the Mycenaeans at least has been show scientifically to be Baltic amber. It's not from Syria, it's not from the Balkans either.

Some historians believe amber was known to Assyrians even in the days of Ninevah (c. 2000BC). A broken obelisk in the form of a tapered 4 sided shaft of stone inscribed with Assyrian cuneiform was found in the 19th century. It translated as:

In the sea of changeable winds (indicating the Persian Gulf)

His merchants fished for pearls

In the sea where the North Star culminates (indicating the Baltic Sea)

They fish for yellow amber

I don't think Syria is where the North Star culminates either so the people of Ninevah writing this must have known about amber coming from the Baltic.

Could be.. or they meant the Black Sea, and traded with people there:

-----------

You quoted the poem which said about yellow amber and the North Star and say maybe they meant the Black Sea...

It doesn't say traded, it says they fished it out of the sea.

They specifically speak of knowing about it being in the North Sea and being yellow amber in the times of Ninevah.

They certainly could have traded it at the Black Sea since the river systems head to it, more than likely a given.

Colchis itself on the Black Sea somewhere imo is also an amber city. Aia, Kingdom of Helios.

OK, so maybe the Assyrians went fishing/diving for amber in the Baltic, instead of trading for amber with Greek colonies on the Black Sea.

Maybe they were those Magyar/Magi??

Sleep well.

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Athena the BIRD Goddess. If you're wondering why Athena would have a bird on her head.

Some authors[citation needed] believe that, in early times, Athena was either an owl herself or a bird goddess in general: in Book 3 of the Odyssey, she takes the form of a sea-eagle. These authors argue that she dropped her prophylactic owl-mask before she lost her wings. "Athena, by the time she appears in art," Jane Ellen Harrison had remarked, "has completely shed her animal form, has reduced the shapes she once wore of snake and bird to attributes, but occasionally in black-figure vase-paintings she still appears with wings."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena

I'll back off on Athena's being a swan, it's still a bird though and the iconology is still the same, just changed for the particular culture in question. From owl to swan. I never said Athena herself was a Gaul anyway, I'm going on her being Min-erva as per the OLB book. It says owl. By the time she transferred into Gaul, from Greece via Frisia - she had been give the Gaul iconology rather than her owl/eagle one.

Bed for me, ciao for now people.

I believe it.

But that proves no connection with the Celts, or them being the same people as the Greeks at some point in time, like you really did suggest earlier today.

Oh well, my eyes start to water too, lol.

.

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Well, first, they didn't do it, and second, it would not be very practical in battle.

Perhaps they only used it for ceremonies and parades.

In my youth I was a "warrior" in the South African Defence Force. We had two uniforms - one for combat ("Browns") and one for ceremonies ("Step-outs"). The latter was to make you think you impressed the girls, your parents, etc. (I think) but, alas, with subsequent budget cuts, we lost the step-outs and then everybody looked the same.

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I believe it.

But that proves no connection with the Celts, or them being the same people as the Greeks at some point in time, like you really did suggest earlier today.

Oh well, my eyes start to water too, lol.

.

Yes, I'll answer this before I go.

I did suggest it, I'm not trying to twist it now.

The Celts as said are only around from c. 500BC, same as Gauls but we know people were living in these areas way before this. I guess what I meant is that Greek myths imo have come down from Northern Europe from people who became these people of later Iron Age times.

I think that some of the ancient Greeks were descended from the SAME people who became the Gauls and Celts then, maybe I should have said.

I'll think some more on it. I know the swan has some important place in it all or Helen would not have been born from swan eggs.

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Yes, I'll answer this before I go.

I did suggest it, I'm not trying to twist it now.

The Celts as said are only around from c. 500BC, same as Gauls but we know people were living in these areas way before this. I guess what I meant is that Greek myths imo have come down from Northern Europe from people who became these people of later Iron Age times.

I think that some of the ancient Greeks were descended from the SAME people who became the Gauls and Celts then, maybe I should have said.

I'll think some more on it. I know the swan has some important place in it all or Helen would not have been born from swan eggs.

In the end we all descended from African people, so yeah, there will be similarities in culture and religion.

Or proto-Indo-Europeans if you like.

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OK, back to business, I posted this previously too, in Post #1973, I've been investigating it again since this was where the Cretan things were found and this area looks interesting and is sinking so it once looked quite different. It was part of a Peninsula once.

4. New Find: Bronze Age Crete-North Frisia [Northwest Germany] Connections

Note from "Dirk" in [Germanic-L] Digest Number 1786

<<The most shocking find was Minoic [Minoan] ceramic dated to the 13th and 14th

centuries BC, including characteriistic three-feet pots. This suggests,

according to the article that trade links existed between Crete and

the North Frisian Coast as early as 1400 BC. The finds come from a

Bronze age layer and cannot have been dropped into the site in modern

times. The objects were likely not transported to Rungholt by

intermediate traders over land, but were likely shipped directly from

Crete.

<<"Rungholt was the main town of the Edomsharde" [Edom's District?]

Area spoken of: Northern Schleswig (North Friesland just south of Denmark) in Germany in region of Pellworm Island (54.5 N, M38) considered to have once been part of a peninsula connected to the south to the German mainland.

Map:

<http://www.uni-/>http://www.uni-

kiel.de/Geographie/lehrv_online/Pellworm/pellwormcd/enken/enken.html

German-language reference entry:

http://www.geo.de/GEO/wissenschaft_natur/2005_11_GEOskop_rungholt/

http://britam.org/now/660Now.html

This area: Uthlande, right off Frisia, now sinking, once above the sea.

510px-Halligen_1858.png

556px-Halligen_1650.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uthlande

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Same hexagonal towers on Nordstrand...

Church%20of%20Odenbuell.jpg

http://www.lancewadplan.org/Cultural%20atlas/SH/Nordstrand/nordstrand.htm#0.%20Top

Amrum, one of the island in this area:

The oldest traces of settlements in the area date back to the Neolithicum, among them a number of dolmens. Also many tomb sites from the Bronze and Iron Ages have been preserved. In the dunes west of the decoy pond the remainders of an Iron Age hamlet have been found. It is unknown whether the Ambrones, who together with the Cimbri and Teutones threatened Rome around 100 B.C., stemmed from this island which back then was still connected to the mainland by a land bridge.

In the early Middle Ages the island was colonised by the Frisians. Next to salt making, agriculture, fishery and whaling, merchant shipping was one of the main sources of income for a long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrum

Frisians of the Middle Ages colonised Amrum, Middle Ages but there was plenty going on prior to that before these Fryans became actual Frisians. It must have been quite a powerful island force if it's thought tribes like the Ambrones, Teutones and the Cimbri may have come from there.

Ambrones:

Their name has been connected to the islands of Fehmarn, old name Imbria, and Amrum. If true, they may be the Ymbers of Widsith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrones

Edited by The Puzzler

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north

O.E. norð, from P.Gmc. *nurtha- (cf. O.N. norðr, O.Fris. north, M.Du. nort, Du. noord, Ger. nord), possibly ult. from PIE *ner- "left," also "below," as north is to the left when one faces the rising sun (cf. Skt. narakah "hell," Gk. enerthen "from beneath," Oscan-Umbrian nertrak "left"). The same notion underlies Ir. tuaisceart "north." The usual word for "north" in the Romance languages is ultimately from English, cf. O.Fr. north (Fr. nord), borrowed from O.E. norð; It., Sp. norte are borrowed from O.Fr. North-easter "wind blowing from the northeast" is from 1794. North American (n.) first used 1766, by Franklin; as an adj., from 1770. Northwest Passage first attested c.1600. North Star "Pole Star" is M.E. norþe sterre (late 14c., cf. M.Du. noirdstern, Ger. nordstern). North Pole attested from mid-15c. (earlier the Arctic pole, late 14c.).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=north

Father of Freyr and Freja

The name Njörðr corresponds to that of the older Germanic fertility goddess Nerthus, and both derive from the Proto-Germanic *Nerþuz.

The th sound really gives me the impression that this name is the root word of North and looking at the North etymology the similar word sounds are there...

O.E. norð, from P.Gmc. *nurtha-

This Njorthr, God of sea, sea-faring etc, might even be the force of the North Sea itself.

---------------

Denghoog on Sylt in the same North Frisian Islands has habitation from 3000BC with amber beads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denghoog

Immediately after this excavation of 1719 September 1868, C.P. Hansen writes as follows:

"'There are in the island of Sylt hillocks of ancient origin, for the most part pagan burying-places, but some of which may have served as the dwelling-places of a primitive people. One such hillock has just been opened at Wenningstedt. The interior was found to be a chamber, 17 feet (5.2 m) long, 10 feet (3.0 m) in breadth, and from 5 to 6 feet (1.8 m) in height, with a covered passage about 22 feet (6.7 m) long, trending southward. The walls of this underground room were composed of twelve large granite blocks, regularly arranged; the roof consisted of three still larger slabs of the same kind of rock; the stones which formed the passage were smaller. At one corner of the floor of the cellar there was a well-defined fireplace, and near it were urns and flint implements; in the opposite corner there were many bones lying, apparently unburned, probably those of the last dweller in the cavern.'"

"... On the floor of the chamber, three separate divisions were distinctly visible, of which one, situated on the east side, showed traces of having been a fireplace. Professor Wibel found several fragments of human bones, which evidently belonged only to one individual, as no portion was duplicated; also a few animals' bones. There was an extraordinary number of fragments of pottery, belonging to about 24 different urns, of which 11 could be put together. Their form and ornamentation were both fine and varied, an interesting witness to the ceramics of the grey past.... Among the stone implements found were a great many flint-knives; two stone hatchets, two chisels, and a gouge, all of[Pg 74] flint, and a disc of porphyry were also obtained. Several mineral substances, quartzite, rubble-stones, gravel, ochre, a sinter-heapthese are less interesting than the seven amber beads which, with some charcoal, completes the list of objects found. Referring to former investigations of galleried mounds [gangbauten], which seem to have been used in some cases as burying-places, in others as dwellings, Dr. Wibel observes, in answer to the question resulting from his discovery, as to whether the Denghoog ought to be regarded as a sepulchre or as a dwelling, that, as Nilsson has already said, all gallery-mounds were originally dwellings, and occasionally became utilised as tombs. In the case of the Denghoog, this fact is demonstrated by the fireplace, the scattered potsherds, the amber beads, &c."

I mentioned the Ertebolle Culture before, called the Folkish people, Germanic speakers of a language that the word Folk seems to come from.

This is a great pdf file, 60 pages, on the Wadden Sea area.

Men have inhabited the Wadden Sea Region

since the late Neolithicum. The marshland

amphibian environment with its diversity of fish,

shellfish, fowl and wild plants has been exploited

since the 5th millennium BC by the sedentary

Ellerbek-Ertebølle and Swifterbant cultures.

Subsequently, Neolithic, Bronze and Iron Age

settlers learned to use the fertile salt marshes

and riverine thickets for pasturage, agriculture

and fishing.

This part interested me as it mentions a clear date of 2200BC...

Apparently, their inhabitants fled the area as soon as

the impact of rising sea levels came to be felt.

Near Delfzijl Neolithic settlers built a megalithic

chambered tomb about 3350 BC. After 2200, BC

the site disappeared under several feet of clay

and peat. Settlement remains are known from

Emden and Winsum (Groningen), but scattered

findings suggest that human activities extended

far into the present Wadden Sea. As much as 77

megalithic graves and 1,000 Bronze Age barrows

are located on Sylt, Föhr and Amrum alone,

whereas the adjoining mudflats and sandbanks

provided dozens of flint daggers and sickles. Barrows

and megalithic graves are also numerous in

the upland districts.

Edited by The Puzzler

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