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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

11,638 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

In the OLB Kroder is later translated as carrier,

Whenever the Carrier has completed a period

It reminds me of the turtle who carries the world on his back, he would be a carrier too.

--------

I don't beleive that Steele guy's translation is right, I think this is said literally...

Sixteen hundred years ago (she writes, 593 B.C.), Atland was submerged; and at that time something happened which nobody had reckoned upon.

AT THAT TIME.

It doesn't say, now.

That is Jessos was born when Atland was submerged. I reckon he's been floating around for way longer than 2000 years.

So, this Buda/Jessos person born at that time -

He was taught the manners and customs of the Frisians by his Frisian friend, who was actually a slave at the time and Jessos bought his freedom from him.

He LIBERATED him.

Jesus - Liber. I can also say that I think you'll find purse can equate to DEL.

So, if this same teaching is of Horus, it would mean it's quite possible the OLB is truthful in telling us that this man born around 2193BC in/near Atland was the original man who spread the message of 'Jesus', which in fact, according to the OLB, was really FRISIAN.

Therefore, in all cultures who took this Liber God on, that is, Horus, Dionysus, Liber, Jesus, Buddha, were really taking on Frisian values.

That's why it compares both Frya and Jessos in the one sentence as equals. When the light of Frya and Jessos has been extinguished...

Edited by The Puzzler

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Wheelbarrow hey, OK, I could see that, cool.

Just one wheel on a wheelbarrow, the wheel pusher, the one who pushes the time around - the Kroder.

Like one of those Council workers who pushes along the stick with a wheel to measure the distance as the wheel turns it measures...

Didn't Otharus say before about Alpha and Omega letters as part of Wralda?

I'm not sure what symbol is being referred to as the Horus one that is a chi-ro one unless the ankh is meant...?

But certainly, Horus is symbolic of Jesus as well.

Self-taught amateur Egyptologist Gerald Massey argued that the deity of Horus and Jesus shared identical mythological origins in his 1907 book Ancient Egypt, the light of the world.[12] His views have been repeated by theologian and Toronto Star columnist Tom Harpur, author Acharya S, and political comedian Bill Maher.[13][14][15] Theologian W. Ward Gasque composed an e-mail to twenty leading Egyptologists, including Professor Emeritus of Egyptology at the University of Liverpool Kenneth Kitchen, and Professor of Egyptology at the University of Toronto Ron Leprohan. The e-mail detailed the comparisons alleged by Massey which had been repeated by Harpur. The scholars were unanimous in dismissing any similarities suggested by Massey, and one Egyptologist criticized the comparison as "fringe nonsense."[16]

To the right a 15th century painting by Fra Filippo Lippi of the Madonna. On the left Isis and Horus, respectively the wife-sister and son of Osiris. "When Christianity was spreading across the Empire, it's clear that it deliberately took images from the pagan world in which it lived and into which it spread and used those images."[17] Egyptologist E. A. Wallis Budge suggests possible connections or parallels in Osiris' resurrection story with those found in Christianity:

"The Egyptians of every period in which they are known to us believed that Osiris was of divine origin, that he suffered death and mutilation at the hands of the powers of evil, that after a great struggle with these powers he rose again, that he became henceforth the king of the underworld and judge of the dead, and that because he had conquered death the righteous also might conquer death...In Osiris the Christian Egyptians found the prototype of Christ, and in the pictures and statues of Isis suckling her son Horus, they perceived the prototypes of the Virgin Mary and her child."

The OLB tells us also that Jessos is called Buda.

The study of Jesus from a mythographical perspective is the examination of the narrative of Jesus, the Christ ("the Anointed") of the gospels, Christian theology and folk Christianity as a central part of Christian mythology. It has been noted since antiquity, and in modern scholarship since the 19th century, that Jesus Christ has striking parallels to other deities worshipped in Hellenistic religion, specifically to the cult of Dionysus in the Greek mystery religions and with the Buddha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ_in_comparative_mythology

They report as I said before that Christians worship Serapis as Christ, so the trinity is really God, earth and bounty, father, mother, son (children).

Osiris ruling the Underworld sounds rather Hades-like too.

I'm not really sure what you were pointing out in your post...

"I'm not really sure what you were pointing out in your post..."

What I am pointing out in the last post, and other posts, is that Christian symbols and ideas have been used for the OLB: monotheism, Jesus, the Flood, and now this Chi-Rho thing.

If you consider who are the suspects for creating the OLB, then it is no surprize at all.

And whatever the origins of the Chi-Rho sign may be, it became truelly popular in the Christian era. And of course the one with the added Greek letters, Alpha and Omega. Just compare the Chi-Rho sign with the Alpha and Omega ("I am the Begining and the End, the First and Last" and so on) with the Yule wheel where the letters A and W, the end and beginning are on top, A and W being the end and beginning of Wralda...

=

Yes, Otharus thought the Omega sign stands for the Yule weheel (or visa versa); he even showed a Yoga Asana that depicted/resembled a circle/Yule wheel.

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Kroder => kruier => carrier.

What the kruier/carrier uses is a 'kroder' or wheelbarrow.

(I showed you a Hyves site (a Dutch sort of Facebook) for people with the family name Kroder and Krooder, and it uses a wheelbarrow as background pic.}

The carrier in the Yule wheel carries time around the year wheel.

The whole point is not trying to dissect every word you read to pieces, the point is simply seeing a large similarity (in appearence and meaning) between the used symbols.

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Back to the Underworld, I already covered Idunna, Ithunna to Athena before.

Yes, she has eggs in the OLB but maybe over time by the time we see her later as Nahallenia and Idunna the eggs have become apples. I see them as near identical symbols. The eggs are relative to the Sun God and in the same types of Slavic religions, the sun is an apple, so they seem interchangable to me.

Here's an interesting person carrying a basket of eggs:

Another legend tells of when Mary Magdalene went to the sepulchre to anoint the body of Jesus. She had with her a basket of eggs to serve as a repast. When she arrived at the sepulchre and uncovered the eggs, the pure white shells had miraculously taken on a rainbow of colors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pysanka

If you go to that website, check out those gorgeous eggs, how marvellous a workmanship on those, I love them.

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Kroder => kruier => carrier.

What the kruier/carrier uses is a 'kroder' or wheelbarrow.

(I showed you a Hyves site (a Dutch sort of Facebook) for people with the family name Kroder and Krooder, and it uses a wheelbarrow as background pic.}

The carrier in the Yule wheel carries time around the year wheel.

The whole point is not trying to dissect every word you read to pieces, the point is simply seeing a large similarity (in appearence and meaning) between the used symbols.

I do both.

Middle English carrien from Anglo-Norman carier (modern French: charrier). Replaced native Middle English ferien "to carry, transport, convey" (from Old English ferian) and Middle English aberen "to carry, bear, endure" (from Old English āberan).

Bear, endure...

200px-MAN_Atlante_fronte_1040572.JPG

The main man carrier of them all, he bears the weight of the Heavens and endures the pain of it. He is the carrier of the wheel of Heaven.

The etymology of the name Atlas is uncertain and still debated. Virgil took pleasure in translating etymologies of Greek names by combining them with adjectives that explained them: for Atlas his adjective is durus, "hard, enduring",[7] which suggested to George Doig[8] that Virgil was aware of the Greek τλήναι "to endure"; Doig offers the further possibility that Virgil was aware of Strabo's remark that the native North African name for this mountain was Douris.[9]

Some modern linguists derive it and its Greek root from the Proto-Indo-European root *tel, 'to uphold, support'; others[citation needed] suggest that it is a pre-Indo-European name.

Thus, he was Atlas Telamon, "enduring Atlas," and became a doublet of Koios, the embodiment of the celestial axis around which the heavens revolve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(mythology)

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The Chi-Ro actually comes more from Mithras as the cosmic Christ that Jesus Christ. It is impressive that they chose a symbol that is so significant when you increase the scope beyond the material world. It is heavily involved with the precessional cycle (as a lot of myths are) and various other mysteries.

The so-called celestial origin of crucifixion in solar myths is said to be a sun crossing over the celestial equator, the heavenly sign of the equinoxes. The image of a crossover in the sky would be a cross like the Greek letter Chi (X) not a Plus (+). The traditional Roman sign of the Christian was Chi Ro, the first two letters of the name Christ.

Plato, in his dialogue Timaeus said that when the creator of the universe first formed the cosmos, he shaped its substance in the form of the letter X, representing the intersection of the zodiac and the celestial equator (or the ecliptic and celestial planes), which depicts the cosmic sphere.

Eggs on the other hand are thought to represent mushrooms when they are carried in baskets. This goes back to Ishtar and Tammuz and maybe Isis and Horus. The thing is, wouldn't that means it predates 2193bce. Supposing the OLB was genuine wouldn't it be more likely that Egypt influenced the Frisians rather than the other way round?

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2008/09/easter-bunny-and-phoenix.html

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Posted (edited)

Puzz, you are suggesting that Kroder comes from Atlas, or visa versa??

LOL, now I can't wait to see how you will distort these names, and make them change into eachother.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Posted (edited)

The Chi-Ro actually comes more from Mithras as the cosmic Christ that Jesus Christ. It is impressive that they chose a symbol that is so significant when you increase the scope beyond the material world. It is heavily involved with the precessional cycle (as a lot of myths are) and various other mysteries.

The so-called celestial origin of crucifixion in solar myths is said to be a sun crossing over the celestial equator, the heavenly sign of the equinoxes. The image of a crossover in the sky would be a cross like the Greek letter Chi (X) not a Plus (+). The traditional Roman sign of the Christian was Chi Ro, the first two letters of the name Christ.

Plato, in his dialogue Timaeus said that when the creator of the universe first formed the cosmos, he shaped its substance in the form of the letter X, representing the intersection of the zodiac and the celestial equator (or the ecliptic and celestial planes), which depicts the cosmic sphere.

Eggs on the other hand are thought to represent mushrooms when they are carried in baskets. This goes back to Ishtar and Tammuz and maybe Isis and Horus. The thing is, wouldn't that means it predates 2193bce. Supposing the OLB was genuine wouldn't it be more likely that Egypt influenced the Frisians rather than the other way round?

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2008/09/easter-bunny-and-phoenix.html

But Jim, it is not just about the Chi-Rho sign, it is about the Chi-Rho sign to which , left and right, two Greek letters have been added.

And THAT was a Christian 'invention'.

And THAT combination looks a lot like the OLB Yule wheel with Wralda written around it and a 'kroder' on top.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Posted (edited)

The Christian influences in the OLB:

We have the parable of the 10 virgins:

At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. (Mat 25:1,2)

And we have the Vestal Virgins, who didn't really disappear but 'transformed' into nuns:

While the Pontifex Maximus continues to the present day as an office of the higher order in the Catholic Church, the order of the vestals was disbanded in 394 AD, when non-Christian cults were banned by Theodosius. The Church, wisely trying to keep the general population with a sense of familiarity, readily adopted the use of convents and position of nuns that held many of the same rules and customs as the Vestals.

http://www.unrv.com/culture/vestal-virgins.php

In ancient Roman religion, the Vestals or Vestal Virgins (Vestales, singular Vestalis), were priestesses of Vesta, goddess of the hearth. The College of the Vestals and its well-being was regarded as fundamental to the continuance and security of Rome, as embodied by their cultivation of the sacred fire that could not be allowed to go out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestal_Virgin

Compare that with the OLB and it's eternal flame/lamps carrying virgins, and the OLB "Fasta" of course.

We have Noah's Flood (2194 BC according to the OLB).

We have a monotheistic religion (Wralda/Jahweh).

We have a Yule wheel (with 'kroder'/wagonbarrow, or the letter -P- and the end and beginning of the name of Wralda, A and W), a sign much alike the Chi-Rho symbol with the Alpha and Omega.

We have the oppostion between liberal/humanistic and conservative (or primitive, superstitious, believing just about anything, meant to scare and dominate people) religion, the Fryans and the 'Fijnen'/Finns/Magyar.

We have an OLB Jessos, and the Jesus of the Christians.

=

Concerning the main 'suspects' of creating the OLB:

Joost Halbertsma was a vicar/linguist/historian/fanatic Frisian nationalist, Haverschmidt was a preacher/poet/loved to write using an alias.

I think I will find more.

Edited by Abramelin

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Posted (edited)

Back to the Underworld, I already covered Idunna, Ithunna to Athena before.

Yes, she has eggs in the OLB but maybe over time by the time we see her later as Nahallenia and Idunna the eggs have become apples. I see them as near identical symbols. The eggs are relative to the Sun God and in the same types of Slavic religions, the sun is an apple, so they seem interchangable to me.

Here's an interesting person carrying a basket of eggs:

Another legend tells of when Mary Magdalene went to the sepulchre to anoint the body of Jesus. She had with her a basket of eggs to serve as a repast. When she arrived at the sepulchre and uncovered the eggs, the pure white shells had miraculously taken on a rainbow of colors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pysanka

If you go to that website, check out those gorgeous eggs, how marvellous a workmanship on those, I love them.

OK, great, another possible Christian influence on the OLB.

+++

EDIT:

We all know the saying, "If you can't beat them, join them."

But I think the 19th century Frisian nationalists had a better idea: "If you can't beat them, twist their words, and use their words to your own advantage."

It was a kind of mental judo...

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Posted (edited)

Today, in the National Library of South Africa, I visited the exhibition "The Book of Books ~ celebrating 400 years of the King James Bible 1611-2011".

Many old bibles were on display, in different languages, and on the walls there were some blown-up copies from a medieval illustrated codex.

One in particular caught my attention and I made some photo's of it.

Most of the text I identified as Psalm 92 (which is about floods...), but this word "Adlandes" in the first line (in red letters) puzzles me.

(Or is it "ad-laudes"?) Can anyone clarify this?

adlandes1.JPG

Deus in Adlandes ???

adiutorium meu

intende domine ad

adiuvandu me

festina Olona.

Ant Assumpta est

Dominus regnavit decoreum in-

dutus est indutus est dominus

fortitudinem et preanxit se. Etem

firmavit orbem terre qui non com-

movebitur Parata cedes tua ex

tunc a domine eleveraverunt flu-

mina vocem suam Elevaverunt

flumina fluctus suos: a vocibus a-

quarum multarum. Mirabiles e-

lationes maris mirabiles in altis

dominus Testimonia tua crede-

bilia facta sunt nimis domu tua

decet sanctitudo domine in longi-

... etcetera

The following is copied from: http://www.newadvent.org/bible/psa092.htm

Laus cantici ipsi David,

in die ante sabbatum,

quando fundata est terra.

Praise in the way of a canticle, for David himself,

on the day before the sabbath,

when the earth was founded.

1 Dominus regnavit,

decorem indutus est:

indutus est Dominus fortitudinem,

et præcinxit se.

Etenim firmavit orbem terræ,

qui non commovebitur.

The Lord has reigned,

he is clothed with beauty:

the Lord is clothed with strength,

and has girded himself.

For he has established the world

which shall not be moved.

2 Parata sedes tua ex tunc;

a sæculo tu es.

2 My throne is prepared from of old:

you are from everlasting.

3 Elevaverunt flumina, Domine,

elevaverunt flumina vocem suam;

elevaverunt flumina fluctus suos,

3 The floods have lifted up, O Lord:

the floods have lifted up their voice.

The floods have lifted up their waves,

4 a vocibus aquarum multarum.

Mirabiles elationes maris;

mirabilis in altis Dominus.

4 with the noise of many waters.

Wonderful are the surges of the sea:

wonderful is the Lord on high.

5 Testimonia tua credibilia facta sunt nimis;

domum tuam decet sanctitudo,

Domine, in longitudinem dierum.

5 Your testimonies have become exceedingly credible:

holiness becomes your house,

O Lord, unto length of days.

Edited by Otharus

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Posted (edited)

Today, in the National Library of South Africa, I visited the exhibition "The Book of Books ~ celebrating 400 years of the King James Bible 1611-2011".

Many old bibles were on display, in different languages, and on the walls there were some blown-up copies from a medieval illustrated codex.

One in particular caught my attention and I made some photo's of it.

Most of the text I identified as Psalm 92 (which is about floods...), but this word "Adlandes" in the first line (in red letters) puzzles me.

(Or is it "ad-laudes"?) Can anyone clarify this?

adlandes1.JPG

Deus in Adlandes ???

adiutorium meu

intende domine ad

adiuvandu me

festina Olona.

Ant Assumpta est

Dominus regnavit decoreum in-

dutus est indutus est dominus

fortitudinem et preanxit se. Etem

firmavit orbem terre qui non com-

movebitur Parata cedes tua ex

tunc a domine eleveraverunt flu-

mina vocem suam Elevaverunt

flumina fluctus suos: a vocibus a-

quarum multarum. Mirabiles e-

lationes maris mirabiles in altis

dominus Testimonia tua crede-

bilia facta sunt nimis domu tua

decet sanctitudo domine in longi-

... etcetera

The following is copied from: http://www.newadvent.org/bible/psa092.htm

Laus cantici ipsi David,

in die ante sabbatum,

quando fundata est terra.

Praise in the way of a canticle, for David himself,

on the day before the sabbath,

when the earth was founded.

1 Dominus regnavit,

decorem indutus est:

indutus est Dominus fortitudinem,

et præcinxit se.

Etenim firmavit orbem terræ,

qui non commovebitur.

The Lord has reigned,

he is clothed with beauty:

the Lord is clothed with strength,

and has girded himself.

For he has established the world

which shall not be moved.

2 Parata sedes tua ex tunc;

a sæculo tu es.

2 My throne is prepared from of old:

you are from everlasting.

3 Elevaverunt flumina, Domine,

elevaverunt flumina vocem suam;

elevaverunt flumina fluctus suos,

3 The floods have lifted up, O Lord:

the floods have lifted up their voice.

The floods have lifted up their waves,

4 a vocibus aquarum multarum.

Mirabiles elationes maris;

mirabilis in altis Dominus.

4 with the noise of many waters.

Wonderful are the surges of the sea:

wonderful is the Lord on high.

5 Testimonia tua credibilia facta sunt nimis;

domum tuam decet sanctitudo,

Domine, in longitudinem dierum.

5 Your testimonies have become exceedingly credible:

holiness becomes your house,

O Lord, unto length of days.

It's the same word here:

http://books.google.nl/books?id=kG5FAAAAcAAJ&pg=PT430&lpg=PT430&dq=.%22ldlaudes%22&source=bl&ots=sE_mLCjNvm&sig=pgExLSj5oyVEQMxN03PaJ8WLZpo&hl=nl&ei=GnnRTfqHGMHsOfPP7PIC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=.%22ldlaudes%22&f=false

and its (A?)dlaudes.

Dlaudes.jpg

.

Edited by Abramelin

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wow, you're fast!

Ad laudes - in praise

Nice example of colored perception...

:blush:

Well, you got my heart skip a beat, LOL !!!

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Puzz, you are suggesting that Kroder comes from Atlas, or visa versa??

LOL, now I can't wait to see how you will distort these names, and make them change into eachother.

.

I'm suggesting that Telamon Atlas is the form of the carrier. I don't need to make it out of Atlas. What is he doing then as the celestial pole?

Enduring, bearing, carrying...? Are you blind? :geek:

I don't need to distort them.

I clearly showed Gades can be gates in many ways and also Kadik. Water dyke, stronghold, GATE, whatever you want to call it - that is what Gadir means, nothing else imo.

Kattegat is another Gate or HOLE. Hell Hole or Hells Gate type words. Gates of Hel. Not saying the kattegat is, just saying.

For interest:

The Germanic word "sound" has the same root as the verb "to sunder" in the meaning of to separate. In Swedish language any strait is called "Sund". In Norway hundreds of narrow straits separating islands and combining Fjords or outer parts of Fjords are named "Sund". Another explanation derives Sound from an ancient verb "sund" in the meaning of to swim. That way a sound is a swimmable strait.

With the denomination of fjords and other bays in North America (Prince William Sound) and New Zealand the European meaning of the word has been lost.

The Germanic word "sound" is not related to the Romance originated word "sound", which has developed from the Latin sonus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Straits

------------

Abe, what if, rather than being so intricately hoaxed with all this stuff in it twisted and turned to suit someone's idea of connecting it all to the Bible, that the story is ACTUALLY HOW IT HAPPENED!!!

Do you believe Jesus was born in Bethlehem around some time like they say or do you think he could have been born 2000 years earlier?

This is why the OLB is termed hoax, not because it is but we just cannot compromise Christianity like that imo.

The OLB says that Jesus has spread an idea he learnt from his Frisian friend, that is Frya's ideals, while all the time the priests are manipulating his self just to have MORE control.

Petrie said Horus and Jesus were noticeable the same - Flinders Petrie - ye holy spirit of scientific Egyptiandom - you don't believe him? You challenge this? Horus and Jesus were the same. Jesus was around way before Bethlehem birth. This is the crux of the OLB, it's convenient like Steele, to change that part so Jesus cannot be born around the time of Atland, how absurd would that be??? Sheesh. Alewyn didn't even want to touch that part in his book.

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Quite frankly the message is telling us to wake up our stupid selves and stop believing in all this nonsense associated with the Church which has been made up to suit to agenda's of others in their power trip quest.

We can worship the ideals of Frya and Jesus without need for anything else.

It's a simple message really.

:innocent:

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I'm trying to work out what Pan may have meant.

I read 'all' the meanings and etymologies but they are a bit poor. Everything I see to do with pan means flat basically, a window PANE, a PANEL, a fryPAN, all flat so I'm wondering where the base for a flat thing is, I can't find it YET.

So, nothing given makes much sense in the form of the God Pan, ALL maybe in some connection.

In Egypt Herodotus tells us the Mendesians worship Pan and have for ages.

I'm trying to make some connection - yes Abe, this one's a bit sloppy...

How about the Mendes part might make him the Moon - men(nes).

Then when you look at the full moon, what does it look like? A pan? It does to me, a big white, silver round PAN in the sky.

He's a fertility buck and we know all about the Moon and fertility.

Then the goat/ram may come in there since they rut and are very competitive and aggressive male spirits in that area. Or the goat ram horns may have looked like the moon, in phases, goat horns can make wonderful big crescents.

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I'm suggesting that Telamon Atlas is the form of the carrier. I don't need to make it out of Atlas. What is he doing then as the celestial pole?

Enduring, bearing, carrying...? Are you blind? :geek:

I don't need to distort them.

I clearly showed Gades can be gates in many ways and also Kadik. Water dyke, stronghold, GATE, whatever you want to call it - that is what Gadir means, nothing else imo.

Kattegat is another Gate or HOLE. Hell Hole or Hells Gate type words. Gates of Hel. Not saying the kattegat is, just saying.

For interest:

The Germanic word "sound" has the same root as the verb "to sunder" in the meaning of to separate. In Swedish language any strait is called "Sund". In Norway hundreds of narrow straits separating islands and combining Fjords or outer parts of Fjords are named "Sund". Another explanation derives Sound from an ancient verb "sund" in the meaning of to swim. That way a sound is a swimmable strait.

With the denomination of fjords and other bays in North America (Prince William Sound) and New Zealand the European meaning of the word has been lost.

The Germanic word "sound" is not related to the Romance originated word "sound", which has developed from the Latin sonus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Straits

------------

Abe, what if, rather than being so intricately hoaxed with all this stuff in it twisted and turned to suit someone's idea of connecting it all to the Bible, that the story is ACTUALLY HOW IT HAPPENED!!!

Do you believe Jesus was born in Bethlehem around some time like they say or do you think he could have been born 2000 years earlier?

This is why the OLB is termed hoax, not because it is but we just cannot compromise Christianity like that imo.

The OLB says that Jesus has spread an idea he learnt from his Frisian friend, that is Frya's ideals, while all the time the priests are manipulating his self just to have MORE control.

Petrie said Horus and Jesus were noticeable the same - Flinders Petrie - ye holy spirit of scientific Egyptiandom - you don't believe him? You challenge this? Horus and Jesus were the same. Jesus was around way before Bethlehem birth. This is the crux of the OLB, it's convenient like Steele, to change that part so Jesus cannot be born around the time of Atland, how absurd would that be??? Sheesh. Alewyn didn't even want to touch that part in his book.

"I clearly showed Gades can be gates in many ways and also Kadik. Water dyke, stronghold, GATE, whatever you want to call it - that is what Gadir means, nothing else imo."

No, you didn't show it clearly, you only convinced yourself.

And from Atlas to Kroder (carrier), just because of.... ok, never mind.

Goodnight.

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"I clearly showed Gades can be gates in many ways and also Kadik. Water dyke, stronghold, GATE, whatever you want to call it - that is what Gadir means, nothing else imo."

No, you didn't show it clearly, you only convinced yourself.

And from Atlas to Kroder (carrier), just because of.... ok, never mind.

Goodnight.

Goodnight. :tu:

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I'm not sure what's so unacceptable as a walled stronghold - gadir - being a gate - seems all too logical to me, with the Gates of Hades there and all the rest I mentioned.

I got it - the Iron Gates - in German - the Eisernes TOR.

Tor is Gate. (The Romanian one is good - Portal of fire = of iron - the old iron/fire combo is still there, like from aser, as fire to metal/iron).

I got it now, TYR is gate, Tyr is Heracles as I always said.

TOR:

Babylon German-English Dictionary

gate, gateway, portal, door, grand entryway, elegant entrance; (Sports) goal,

Gosh, wasn't I looking for that for ever - TYR, TOR = GATE!! In German - lolol

You won't stop me now. :ph34r:

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There is a God of Gates, that is Janus in Roman religion.

In general, Janus is at the origin of time as the guardian of the gates of Heaven

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus

January - 'co-incidently' the moth of the starsign Capricorn - the sea Goat. The sea gate...

He has 2 faces, ones looks forward one looks back, like a twin, or 2 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus

An explantion of sorts to twins and pillars:

According to Macrobius citing Nigidius Figulus and Cicero, Janus and Jana (Diana) are a pair of divinities, worshipped as Apollo or the sun and moon, whence Janus received sacrifices before all the others, because through him is apparent the way of access to the desired deity.[44]

A similar solar interpretation has been offered by A. Audin who interprets the god as the issue of a long process of development, started with the Sumeric cultures, from the two solar pillars located on the eastern side od temples, each of them marking the direction of the rising sun at the dates of the two solstices: the northeastern corresponding to the Winter and the southeastern to the Summer solstice. These two pillars would be at the origin of the theology of the divine twins, one of whom is mortal.

Janus cult: A WALLED ENCLOSURE WITH GATES AT BOTH SIDES.

Numa built the Ianus geminus (also Janus Bifrons, Janus Quirinus or Portae Belli) , a passage ritually opened at times of war, and shut again when Roman arms rested.[46] It formed a walled enclosure with gates at each end, situated between the old Roman Forum and that of Julius Caesar, which had been consecrated by Numa Pompilius himself. About the exact location and aspect of the temple there has been much debate among scholars.[47] In the course of wars, the gates of the Janus were opened, and in its interior sacrifices and vaticinia were held to forecast the outcome of military deeds.[48] The doors were closed only during peacetime, an extremely rare event.[49] The function of the Ianus Geminus was supposed to be a sort of good omen: in time of peace it was said to close the wars within or to keep peace inside; in times of war it was said to be open to allow the return of the people on duty.[50]

A temple of Janus is said to have been consecrated by the consul Gaius Duilius in 260 BCE after the Battle of Mylae in the Forum Holitorium. It contained a statue of the god with the right hand showing number 300 and the left one number 65, i. e. the dimension of the solar year and twelve altars, one for each month

The circle, the pan, not the moon only (as I first guessed) but all circles, I believe Pan was God of the circle, the complete revolution even, a circle, the ALL of it. The pan shape flat circle.

Now, his epithets:

The epithets that can be identified are: Cozeuios, i. e. Conseuius the Sower, that opens the carmen and is attested as an old form of Consivius in Tertullian;[63] Patultius: the Opener; Iancus or Ianeus: the Gatekeeper; Duonus Cerus: the Good Creator; rex king (potissimum melios eum recum: the most powerful and best o 'em kings); diuum patrem (partem):[64] father of the gods (or part of the gods); diuum deus: god of the gods; ianitos: the Janitor, Gatekeeper.

In Ianeus - I can actually see the name Aeneus, Aeneus Land is Europe - the land of the Gate Keeper? Why not.

Aeneus does go to Hades, he obviously is able to open the gate - being from Troy, whose gate was their downfall, there is definite connection.

They opened the gates, the gatekeepers opened the gate, by trickery - and fell to the fire.

St Peters Gate - the Pearly Gates of Heaven - what do you think they are??

Gates of Heaven aren't they - will you get in?

Will the Gatekeeper let you in if you have been a good boy?

The pearly gates is an informal name for the gateway to the Heaven of Christian belief. It is inspired by the description of the New Jerusalem in Book of Revelation 21:21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate being made from a single pearl.[1]

The image of the gates in popular culture is a set of large, white or wrought-iron gates in the clouds, guarded by Saint Peter (the keeper of the "keys to the kingdom"); those not fit to enter heaven are denied entrance at the gates, and thus descend into Hell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearly_gates

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Today, in the National Library of South Africa, I visited the exhibition "The Book of Books ~ celebrating 400 years of the King James Bible 1611-2011".

And you did not drop in to say hello?!

OK. Johannesburg is some distance from Cape Town.

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Pan is dead!

Pan is the only Olympian God to die.

He fell from Heaven, his gates crashed down and chaos ensured.

That is the fall of Azaziel, all others characters falling from Heaven, probably Phaethon etc.

He died.

He fell of his rock.

Mountain goats are very impressive, they almost seem to defy gravity and jump up those rocks like no other animal of that type can, they are tough as nails and can eat tin cans, I've seen them, I have had 2 goats in my time. Gorgeous animals and the females have horns too, like sheep because they really are a type of sheep, or sheep are a type of goat. The sheep and goat could be interchangeable imo but I won't promote that just yet.

--------

The Dome of the Rock.

Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

http://www.thorncrownjournal.com/dougreed/gatesofhell.html

The Dome of the Rock is actually, as you would know, built on Bedrock, specifically for protection against the earthquakes in the area. It was really important it didn't crash down.

The above apparent Jesus quote tells us this too - he's building the Church on the Rock so the Earthquakes don't fell it - the earthquakes being the GATES of HADES being opened.

This is also meant to be the Rock Mount (a Tor as well) of Abrahams attempted sacrifice to Yahweh before being stopped by the angels.

--------

Some original gates of Hades in Israel.

gates_of_hades_1.jpg

The text says: In Jesus' time a temple stood in front of this cave. In the cave or the grotto was a very deep pool that they

never could measure (according to Josephus) and a powerful stream of water flowed. The cave

was believed to be the gates to Hades. Several other shrines and temples stood here including this one to

Caesar. The niches in the wall held images of the gods Pan, Echo and Hermes.

A sign at this site reads:

”THE GROTTO OF THE GOD PAN: This cave is the nucleus beside which the sacred sanctuary was built. In this 'abode of the shepherd god,' pagan cult began as early as

the 3rd century BCE. The ritual sacrifices were cast into a natural abyss reaching the underground waters at the back of the cave. If the victims disappeared in the water this was

a sign that the god had accepted the offering. If, however, signs of blood appeared in the nearby springs the sacrifice had been rejected.”

http://www.generationword.com/Israel/caesarea_philippi.htm

The Dome of Heaven - Ouranos may be seen to be like the Dome of the Rock and he is the rock of Heaven.

God seems to be a rock.

In the thread discussing the we, us aspect of God, one of the things in that list of jealous aspects was something like - You will worship no other rock, like no other God. God is always on the rock.

Rocky outcrop as TOR is the same imo as gate in German TOR and that is my connection I will expand on.

Rocks and gates next.

The walled stronghold you will find Abe, IS God.

That's why they all have them, the GATE is God, their main protection. Like the shield I said before.

Babylon had a nice gate. The Lion's Gate is pretty cool, those Iron Gates, bet they go back sometime, the Gates out of the Straits, the Gates to Hades, the Gate of God, St Peters Gate...

The building of these huge rock structures with their gates was symbolic of their connection of protection by the God of the Gate - that would be TOR or the Tyrian Heracles.

The Pillars of Heracles were none other than the Gates of God. The city centre, the mount is the God, ie; Athena is Athens.

The Mount of Aries in Athens, is nothing more than a rock of God to serve justice.

The whole rock of Athens is very meaningful, that is a top rock that one, a huge God, very strong. Let's see if I can find some goat on Athena.

lol I can buy a coin on ebay titled Athena/Goat - "CILICIA. AIGEAI. AE 15. ATHENA/GOAT. 2ND-1ST CENTURY BC" http://cgi.ebay.com/CILICIA-AIGEAI-AE-15-ATHENA-GOAT-2ND-1ST-CENTURY-BC-/380221007194

The AEGIS is obviously what I'm going for... shaking it creates fear in men.

When the Olympian shakes the aegis, Mount Ida is wrapped in clouds, the thunder rolls and men are struck down with fear. "Aegis-bearing Zeus", as he is in the Iliad, sometimes lends the fearsome goatskin to Athena. In the Iliad when Zeus sends Apollo to revive the wounded Hector of Troy, Apollo, holding the aegis, charges the Achaeans, pushing them back to their ships drawn up on the shore. According to Edith Hamilton's Mythology: Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes,[3] the Aegis is Zeus' breastplate, and was "awful to behold."

Locating the aegis

Athena's aegis, bearing the Gorgon, here resembles closely the skin of the huge serpent who guards the golden fleece (regurgitating Jason); cup by Douris, Classical Greece, early fifth century BC - Vatican MuseumGreeks of the Classical age always detected that there was something alien and uncanny about the aegis. It was supposed by Euripides (Ion, 995) that the Gorgon was the original possessor of this goatskin,[4] yet the usual understanding[5] is that the Gorgoneion was added to the aegis, a votive gift from a grateful Perseus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis

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Posted (edited)

12 gates from 12 pearls, did you note that?

Each gate then is the starsigns.

The Zodiac is Heavens Gate.

Each pearl is a constellation.

The first gate is Janus - the Sea-Goat - Capricorn, and 12 pieces of gate make the whole circle.

This is actually the Pearly Gates or St Peter's Gate.

The Gate is a circle of 12 pieces, which makes the whole circle.

When the Heavens declined, as Plato tells us, Phaethon fell, that is when the declination of the Zodiac changed, Heavens Gate crashed and this was a time of Chaos -the Heavens fell to the Earth.

The inside of the circle then become a rock. The sea can be cosmic, a reproduction of our own world above us.

The imagery then is a rock in the centre, surrounded by a circle of 12 gate parts.

The rock is the Goat. The Zodiac is the Gate.

It is the Gates of God.

It's all coming around to show that Wralda was the God that became God and that this idea was spread from Western Europe.

I'll stop there in case anyone wants to challenge any of that before I continue.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Some good connections Puzz, some I've made myself but as you know we do have slightly different positions. I would like to understand more about your view though. Any chance of maybe a timeline or something? The thing is I am yet to see the evidence of the goat cult in Western Europe at such an early time. I'd like to know what there is to shift a lot of the cults that far to the west. It is possible certainly but pre 2000 bce the action would seem to be more central Europe focussed or even further east or south.

Also if all these symbols were from the mystery schools and they were much wider spread than is commonly thought then these cults with sacred symbols could be all over the place and telling where they originate is extremely hard.

If Halbertsma and the other candidates were schooled in the occult they would have been drawing on additional sources and better able to weave a web of intrigue. It's all speculation but far from irrefutable. However, you've made an excellent case and I'd like to see a timeline of sorts. Cheers mate :tu:

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