[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[The Puzzler]

Got ya, Buda like 'booty' maybe. Only joking. Could Gadir/Qadir being related to Al Khadir or the Green One then?

Jesus is the Greek spelling of Yeshua or Isha and it means 'Saviour', it seems to much of a stretch to revert it back to Jessos. Some fringe authors trace the name further back to Sumer where something similar meant "the semen that restores".

If we put the sinking of Doggerland at 6000 BP and the German culture at 5000 BP we may just about be able to have some continutiy but years of research would hve to be done digging looking for signs of anything.

Now I know this is extreme speculation but what if there is a connection between ancient Germany and the Germa or Garamantes of Libya? Links to Libya are in the OLB and it would at least provide a passage into Egypt and Mesopatamia and also partly explain why the Berbers used a symbol close to the Jul Wheel.

http://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/germa.htm

Booty lol. Did you like the muses?

Slim, imo, it needs to be looked at as the origins of these words are not Greek, nor Phoenicians nor even Latin, but Fryan.

The Greek word is saviour say, this is the same concept as the treasure, it will save you, the key will open it and you will be saved, through death. The saviour, it goes all through, the death, then we are saved, and born again in spirit. That is the ancient concept of freedom in this context of Hades etc, believe it or not. Death. Wealth gave it to you too, riches (Hades and Pluto), but you again, had to use your key to use it right or it would despoil you, if you became greedy.

I had Gold for Ram in my list - golden fleece - and also Zeus, think when he takes Danae, he comes to her in a shower of Gold - he is the gold.

Think if the word you might use went into another area and then that word was made into another word, then the Greeks used that word, then the Latins changed it, then it came back to us - as the samish but different.

This is the circle I repeatedly see - the word Del as in deliverance becomes Phoenician and Hebrew daleth, door - it always was door and del, they used the words from Europe say, so then the Greeks make del out of this for delta, based on the same concept - del, deliverance (of the funnel) - then it might seem like we got it from Greek or Phoenician when in fact, it may have went into there from European speaking people.

fry (v.)

late 13c., from O.Fr. frire "to fry" (13c.), from L. frigere "to roast or fry," from PIE *bher- "to cook, bake" (cf. Skt. bhrjjati "roasts," bharjanah "roasting;" Pers. birishtan "to roast;" Gk. phrygein "to roast, bake").

Now, it becomes quite obvious what Phrygia meant, Troy fried, that for sure. But fire purifies also, it makes something pure, like minerals, when you melt them, it makes them purer qualities, the compounds split up. So the double meaning is the fire, although it fried them, it also purified them. Then the release comes, from the purification, that is the fry, the spawn, was freed, Aeneus perhaps, they are free.

PeTER, JupiTER, absolutely Slim, you'll see it everywhere. Dis PaTER. faTHER - our fa TOR - pa and fa are the same, not sure, in Hungarian we get wood, timber, tree..interesting:

fa as an adverb in Italian gives us AGO.

Gheg Albanian[edit] EtymologyFrom Turkish ağa or Greek άγιος (ágios)

ago m.

1.(archaic, poetic) god

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ago

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fa

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But ago is an interesting word because I already saw it before, ago means to LEAD.

Ago is also God for Gheg Albanian.

Look at the Wiki page and check out the ago stuff, it's Argos, the Argonaut, who led itself, could be relative to Agamemnon as well, the leader - the leader is God, the AGO. (Probably like our ego, the lead part of our personality).

So, something like ago-tor - lead rock, head gate, that sort of thing, that's what father could possibly really mean, also, a God, he's our Father, who art in Heaven.

Each language translates the SAME thing to many words, they are not all different things, they are just variations of the same thing in the different words.

[The Puzzler]

You are now stuck to that 'rock' thing, eh? lol.

Well, consider the Kroder to be nothing but the hands of the clock.

Wralda created time, Kroder carries it around.

The hands don't move by themselves.

But yes, they carry it in their hands. Someone has to push the wheelbarrow for it to move.

[Abramelin]

The hands don't move by themselves.

But yes, they carry it in their hands. Someone has to push the wheelbarrow for it to move.

Yep, and what was inside that wheelbarrow ("kroder")? Time.

No, the 'hands' don't move by themselves, the power to move came from Wralda (but what has 'rock'' got to do with it?)

[Abramelin]

What other culture was around (and other language) in western Europe when the Fryan empire was at it's height?

Artenacian culture, named after the archaeological site of Artenac in Charente appeared in the Late Chalcolithic, c. 2400 BC, apparently as reaction to migrations of Danubian peoples into Western France.

Because it is characterized by its abundant arrow points, it is considered a culture of bowmen. It participated fully in the megalithic culture of the Chalcolithic period.

In successive centuries it became dominant throughout western France, establishing a stable ethno-cultural border with the Danubian culture near the Rhine that remained stable for a whole millennium.

The Artenacian peoples are believed to be the ancestors of the historical Aquitani.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artenacian_culture

Beginning about 2600 BCE the Artenacian culture, participant of the larger European Megalithic Culture developed in Dordogne, possibly as a reaction to the advance of Danubian peoples (such as SOM) over Western France. Armed with typical arrows, they took over all Atlantic France and Belgium by 2400 BCE, establishing a stable border with Indo-Europeans (Corded Ware) near the Rhin that would remain stable for more than a millennium.

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Prehistoric_France

The presence of what seem to be names of deities or people in late Romano-Aquitanian funerary slabs similar to modern Basque have led many philologists and linguists to conclude that Aquitanian was closely related to an older form of Basque.[3] The fact that the region was known as Vasconia in the Early Middle Ages, a name that evolved into the better known form of Gascony, along with other toponymic evidence, seems to corroborate that assumption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquitani

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquitanian_language

OK, my point: these people, these Artenacians were around throughout western France and in Belgium.

They spoke a language related to Basque.

The participated in building the megalithic structures.

They were a dominant presence for more than a millenium.

They were the ancestors of the later Aquitani (and Basques).

My question: if you all want to use Greek, Latin and Semitic languages and myths to prove your points based on words only, why don't you try out the Basque language for a change?

.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

Yep, and what was inside that wheelbarrow ("kroder")? Time.

No, the 'hands' don't move by themselves, the power to move came from Wralda (but what has 'rock'' got to do with it?)

Yes, the action makes the time.

The Rock. It's just a metaphor for the central spot. The rock. The tor, the top, but also the gate. If Hades is gates, Hades the God can be gate as well as the place. So God is really the gate as well as the rock.

You can only start to go around the track when the gate opens, like racehorses, which on Atlantis, there was a racecourse.

As I showed: "Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8

That's God, a rock. That imo is Wralda, he's the central spot, his hands reach out and create time. That's what the Dome of the Mount is all about. The bedrock is God, it's built on it so it doesn't fall down in an earthquake. The rock doesn't fall again - it's all metaphorical - when God fell, when Saturn (Chronus) fell from grace.

[The_Spartan]

she will get stumped with basque...i am sure!

[The Puzzler]

---------- snipped

OK, my point: these people, these Artenacians were around throughout western France and in Belgium.

They spoke a language related to Basque.

The participated in building the megalithic structures.

They were a dominant presence for more than a millenium.

They were the ancestors of the later Aquitani (and Basques).

My question: if you all want to use Greek, Latin and Semitic languages and myths to prove your points based on words only, why don't you try out the Basque language for a change?

.

Maybe I will because I see many words in the OLB that ONLY come from Old French. One is jut, from jetty and I'm curious about fry, spawn, I have noticed many more, just can't think of them offhand, I will though, enchanter was another.

Good find Abe. These really could be the Phrygians.

Edited May 19, 2011 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

she will get stumped with basque...i am sure!

Bring it on!!

[SlimJim22]

The flooding of Doggerland (or most of it) is supposed to have happened 6145 BC (based on radiocarbon dating/ Storegga Slide), and it is thought that Dogger Island stayed above sealevel untill around 5000 BC.

But yes, it would be very interesting what they could drag up from the bottom of the North Sea, and compare it with what was going on on the mainland of Europe of around 5000 BC.

==

Al Khadir, The Verdent One. Hmm... Another spelling is Khizr. But I think you will have to stretch etymology quite far to go from a gate to the color green. Well, Puzz could do it, no doubt, LOL !!

==

"The Semen that Resores".. You got that from John Allegro, right?

==

That the symbol shows up with the Berbers is not much of a surprize when you know the Alans carried that symbol with them through Europe, and finally settled in Tunesia (together with the Vandals).

Allegro it was indeed. I think the theories on mushrooms have a lot of logic behind them, however I see relatively few links in the OLB unless you'd like to include baskets of eggs.

In Chinese alchemy, the fifth element is wood or green so I could stretch it but there's no need. It is all really interesting as it is and doesn't need to be twisted. Al Khadir is identified by some as the Wandering Jew, Elijah and is possily no more than an archetype. However, archetypes are powerful things and who knows how long they have been a part of our subconscious, developing as we have evolved.

I hit a bit of a brick wall trying to research the Alans. They sound interesting but I read they are from the common era whereas I am talking North Africa in the second millenium BCE. So the Alans and Vandals are separate but related? If you have links I'd appreciate them, if not no sweat I have stuff I should be doing

[The Puzzler]

3) Basque regularly developed Latin /f/ into /b/.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language

A word like fate may have been bate - baet - batae - was really fatae - the fates.

The river of this name, may have actually been the river of fate, maybe the river Styx, because Baiae is the Underworld, in Rome and the Batae river was in the area they now locate Atlantis.

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This come back to an earlier post of mine:

Post #4900 A map of Baetica is there too.

I said: (in italics)

Baetica.

I wouldn't have picked up on anything here except yesterday I got my new set of Ancient Civilisations cards with DVD and among them was a place called Baiae - The Oracle of the Dead.

The groves were chopped down and the tunnels holed up so no one could go there anymore, this happened in 1AD by the Romans who wished to erase this older cult of Rome. Why do the darker, little Italians look like the Spanish, all their flamboyant la-de-da language and curly black hair. I never know if someones Italian or Spanish half the time. Plenty of myths put the first Sicilians as having come from the West.

In Rome this one was but it was none other than, in the words on the card "Antrum of Initiation" - 'an elaborate complex of tunnels cut into the volcanic rock, was said to represent the HADES of Greek mythology and included an artifical river of Styx', most likely the Guadalquivir in the real Baetica.

The people living there were more TUR people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turdetani

[The Puzzler]

Allegro it was indeed. I think the theories on mushrooms have a lot of logic behind them, however I see relatively few links in the OLB unless you'd like to include baskets of eggs.

In Chinese alchemy, the fifth element is wood or green so I could stretch it but there's no need. It is all really interesting as it is and doesn't need to be twisted. Al Khadir is identified by some as the Wandering Jew, Elijah and is possily no more than an archetype. However, archetypes are powerful things and who knows how long they have been a part of our subconscious, developing as we have evolved.

I hit a bit of a brick wall trying to research the Alans. They sound interesting but I read they are from the common era whereas I am talking North Africa in the second millenium BCE. So the Alans and Vandals are separate but related? If you have links I'd appreciate them, if not no sweat I have stuff I should be doing

How about the dna link of Saami's and Berbers?

The Saami offer some interesting ideas that they may still hold, not only said name in OLB but the concepts that may be very ancient from a people who studied the North skies and the actual Pole star's as they changed.

Radien or Vearalden was a sky-ruling god. The symbol of the world tree or pillar similar in Finnish mythology that reached up to the North star was marked by a stytto

His name is also: Waralden Olmai

If this is not Wralda, I'd be very suprised.

The clan and family gods of the Sami were known in different parts of Sapmi under the name of Seita, Sieidis or Storjunkare. Each family or clan had its Storjunkare standing in the district where they lived. Every Sami settlement had its seita, which had no regular shape, and might consist of smooth or odd-looking stones picked out of a stream, of a small pile of stones, of a tree- stump, or of a simple post. They were set up on a high, prominent place, or in a rich meadow. Under and round such seitas they strewed green fir twigs in winter, and in summer green leaves. The seitas protected their worshippers against misfortune to the herds of reindeer, gave instructions how to catch wild reindeer, and in return offerings were made to them of the hides and hoofs of reindeer, calves, and sometimes of a dog. But a private person might also have his own seita, to whom he prayed for good luck. The Storjunkare are described sometimes as stones, having some likeness to a man or an animal, that were set up on a mountain top, or in a cave, or near rivers and lakes. Honor was done to them by spreading fresh twigs under them in winter, and in summer leaves or grass. The Storjunkare had power over all animals, fish, and birds, and gave luck to those that hunted or fished for them. Reindeer were offered up to them, and every clan and family had its own hill of sacrifice.

If I really stretched it, I could get shoals from those - smooth or odd-looking stones picked out of a stream, of a small pile of stones. A shoal is actually a small hill, a shell or rock outcrop, so indeed it can be a TOR. A gate, but also I think it can translate from shoals to shield, a barrier or a protection. Your family shoeld, your shields are your parents and parents shield their children, they are the shielders.

Or a pole, up high, in a meadow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_shamanism

Wonder no more why Santa is found in Lapland living with the Saami people.

Bed for me people.

[Abramelin]

Maybe I will because I see many words in the OLB that ONLY come from Old French. One is jut, from jetty and I'm curious about fry, spawn, I have noticed many more, just can't think of them offhand, I will though, enchanter was another.

Good find Abe. These really could be the Phrygians.

I am not talking about Old French, lol.

I am talking 2600 BC.

[Abramelin]

she will get stumped with basque...i am sure!

Heh, I know...

[Abramelin]

How about the dna link of Saami's and Berbers?

Yeah, I showed you why they are 'linked': it dates from a period close to the end of the last ice age.

[The Puzzler]

Yeah, I showed you why they are 'linked': it dates from a period close to the end of the last ice age.

Yes, and.......?

I'll see your reply in the morning.

[SlimJim22]

Puzz do you recall the period where we were looking at Saturn or El as the Central Sun and around it turned the solar barque. Well, in truth that all 'Fryed' my melon but it always struck me as being important. It would be the polar axis imo but not just for us but for the whole galaxy wouldn't it? Evereything turning around a stationary point, 'rock' or 'stone' so I can get where you're coming from. I am not paticuarly suited towards maths or engineering but couldn't this be related to the 'plumb line' concept that remains still and everything else moved around it. I expect my explanation to be flawed so anyone feel free to correct.

Identifying this central point as a stone makes sense when we appreciate how significant omphalos stones are the world over. Kronos aka Saturn even swallowed a stone representing Zeus knowing that his children would depose him one day. If Wralda is Saturn, Kronos and El then it may make some sense and explain why there is confusion because El would be Wralda and Kroder wouldn't he? The other possibility I see is the concpet of Brahma and Atman.

Greece also had two concepts of time with Kronos and Kairos though I'm not 100% clear on the distinctions and why it matters.

I like to play lingo-lego where I can but Euskara has always baffled me somewhat. I guess there is a fair bit of fringe on the net and that doesn't help the cause. In enjoyed reading Gene Matlock in the past but really I'd prefer to leave it to the professionals. Without any coming forward, I wish you all the best Puzz.

I wasn't sure about the Muse - Mousa - Mouse suggestion and prefer to think in terms of 'mn' 'to think, to ponder' etc. Music may have been used by the ancients to alter consciousness but more likely to help with memory. With think of music as sound but for the Muses, it could have been perhaps more related to art in it's various forms. The truth is I haven't really got a clue, I just always found it interesting that Plat gave the kings of Atlantis names as including Gadeiros and Musaeus. I was reading the other day about the nymph who was turned into mint though, not sure if it has any relevance but Greek myth is so prone to weaving in and out of itself. She was beloved by Hades though and I can see what you are getting at with that side of things (I think).

Death = life and wealth = purity or something like that, Hades could be the guardian of the Gate and like the camel parable you cannot take possessions with you so there needs to be a purification and fire is usually the most appropriate symbol for this as you mention. I'm not sure if it gets us much closer to proving the OLB but it is all very interesting. If people expect firm conclusions then they may be dissappointed but that's life.

[Abramelin]

Allegro it was indeed. I think the theories on mushrooms have a lot of logic behind them, however I see relatively few links in the OLB unless you'd like to include baskets of eggs.

In Chinese alchemy, the fifth element is wood or green so I could stretch it but there's no need. It is all really interesting as it is and doesn't need to be twisted. Al Khadir is identified by some as the Wandering Jew, Elijah and is possily no more than an archetype. However, archetypes are powerful things and who knows how long they have been a part of our subconscious, developing as we have evolved.

I hit a bit of a brick wall trying to research the Alans. They sound interesting but I read they are from the common era whereas I am talking North Africa in the second millenium BCE. So the Alans and Vandals are separate but related? If you have links I'd appreciate them, if not no sweat I have stuff I should be doing

Jim, try Alani and Vandals. They hooked up, and went to Iberia and Northern Africa.

You can even try "Alans" or "Alani" AND "Arthurian". I think yoy will find that interesting.

And I know what era they lived in, but you may want to know why the socalled Berber 'Yazh' (stands for 'Free Men') symbol was so important for them. Btw, Yazigh was one of the names for the Alans.

I'd say, start with Wiki.

==

Even Odin was called "The Wanderer"...

.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Yes, and.......?

I'll see your reply in the morning.

That genetic links do not explain myths.

[SlimJim22]

Jim, try Alani and Vandals. They hooked up, and went to Iberia and Northern Africa.

You can even try "Alans" or "Alani" AND "Arthurian". I think yoy will find that interesting.

And I know what era they lived in, but you may want to know why the socalled Berber 'Yazh' (stands for 'Free Men') symbol was so important for them. Btw, Yazigh was one of the names for the Alans.

I'd say, start with Wiki.

==

Even Odin was called "The Wanderer"...

.

Cheers Abe, I'll look into this.

[The Puzzler]

Heh, I know...

Hardly.

See post #5009.

Aquitini, Aquilina's, eagle people. Aquiline, I know who they are, I have their bloody big nose. You know, a Roman nose. Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Eagle people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquitaine

Night all.

PS: Maybe I'll go read one of my Jean Plaidy books...The Revolt of the Eaglets looks a good choice.

Plantaganets and Aquitaines are right up my alley.

Edited May 19, 2011 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Hardly.

See post #5009.

Aquitini, Aquilina's, eagle people. Aquiline, I know who they are, I have their bloody big nose. You know, a Roman nose. Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Eagle people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquitaine

Night all.

PS: Maybe I'll go read one of my Jean Plaidy books...The Revolt of the Eaglets looks a good choice.

Plantaganets and Aquitaines are right up my alley.

LOL, I want to see you quote from Euskara.

Aquitania =/= Aguila

Eagle people, big nose, sheesh.

What are you one when you post?

Magic shrooms??

Balizko errotak, irinik ez.

.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I will bet Puzz will come up with "Atlaintika", a Basque poem about a lost 'green' island of warriors (it's about their "aintzine-koak", seafarers, or something like "ancestors" or "who were here first").

But it was nothing but a 19th century Basque poem, based on Plato's story.

I hope that will save us 20 pages of bull.

.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Abramelin

[Alewyn]

I hope that will save us 20 pages of bull.

.

Yes, but feed a stray...

[SlimJim22]

Just checking out the Basque myths and culture. Apparently they hold women in particularly high regard and the main deity is Mari. Mountains and stones figure prominently.

www.sareoso.org.uk/Liburutegia/ontzia/Basque%20mythology.doc

Also there are many claims about the language and its affiliation with foreign tongues. Algonquine is mentioned as well as Sammi/Magyar as being related. Not much to go on even if it is true.

http://planetrjl.tripod.com/LaFraughName/id14.html

[Abramelin]

Yes, but feed a stray...

Don't start..

Give us somethng of your own, Alewyn.

We do not agree much on anything, but at least you are an intelligent guy, and not a guy who loves fringe theories based on nothing but wordplay.

Well, that much I understood from your posts.

What are your thoughs about the Chi-Rho sign??