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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

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I remember I once found a list of Viking kings with the nickname "White".

Well, you know it, I lost the link to that list and by god I cannot find it anymore.

The only one I could retrace was king of Ireland (LOL, I always said the OLB never said a word about Ireland).

In 853 AD, Óláfr Guðröðarson (the White) seized control of the remaining Viking camps in Ireland. Irish sources say that Óláfr was the "son of the king of Lochlann" -- possibly Rogaland in southwestern Norway. Ari the Learned later says in Íslendingabók that this Óláfr was his ancestor on the "sword-side" and claims for Óláfr descent from the Swedish Yngling kings of Uppsala, saying that Óláfr was the son of Ingjald.

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/Ireland.shtml

The new commander of the Norse forces, known in Iceland as "Olaf inn hviti" (Olaf the White) and referred to as "son of the king of Lochlann," came from Iceland in 852, defeated the Danes and established a new Norse kingdom at Dublin, ruling over Norse, Danes and Irish alike.

http://macdonnellofleinster.org/page_13c_clan_donalds_viking_roo.htm

"son of the king of Lochlann"

Does anyone remember I posted in this thread and the Doggerland thread that the area in N/W Germany, Frisia, Denmark, all that together, was called "Lochlann" according to an old source (19th century)?

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I found it (and read the subsequent posts / click on the arrow left of my name in this quoted post):

I was re-reading a few pages of the Doggerland thread, and found something interesting.

Lochlan was the north of Germany, extending from

the Rhine to the Elbe, and the name of Lochlanach

was originally applied to the ancient traditionary pirates

termed the Fomorians. When the Norwegian and Dan-

ish pirates appeared in the ninth century, they were like-

wise called Lochlanach ; and the name of Lochlan was

transferred to Norway and Denmark, from whence they

came. There is every reason to believe that the Low

German race were preceded, in the more ancient Lochlan,

by a Celtic people.

http://www.archive.org/stream/deanoflismoresbo00macluoft/deanoflismoresbo00macluoft_djvu.txt

Read the rest of that post here:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179840&view=findpost&p=3385246

Edited by Abramelin

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OK, shooting from the hip now...

I can imagine that those Scandinavian sailors/pirates introduced themselves to foreigners (who most often would have been darker-haired then they were) as "We are the White Kings (and then, 'bow down for me you *** or die')".

The White Kings........ the "Hwit Kenings".

"Vikings" as most people heard it, or Vitkings as they heard it in Spain and France.

Don't worry, I do know the official etymology for the name "Viking".

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Prenter is not necessarily od Frisian. It still exists and means passagier.

prenter

1) Beroep 2) Iemand die voor zijn genoegen meegaat met een haringvisser 3) Passagier op een vissersboot 4) Persoonsbenaming 5) Plaats in Amerika

Gevonden op http://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/puzzelwoordenboek/pr

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I remember I once found a list of Viking kings with the nickname "White".

Well, you know it, I lost the link to that list and by god I cannot find it anymore.

The only one I could retrace was king of Ireland (LOL, I always said the OLB never said a word about Ireland).

In 853 AD, Óláfr Guðröðarson (the White) seized control of the remaining Viking camps in Ireland. Irish sources say that Óláfr was the "son of the king of Lochlann" -- possibly Rogaland in southwestern Norway. Ari the Learned later says in Íslendingabók that this Óláfr was his ancestor on the "sword-side" and claims for Óláfr descent from the Swedish Yngling kings of Uppsala, saying that Óláfr was the son of Ingjald.

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/Ireland.shtml

The new commander of the Norse forces, known in Iceland as "Olaf inn hviti" (Olaf the White) and referred to as "son of the king of Lochlann," came from Iceland in 852, defeated the Danes and established a new Norse kingdom at Dublin, ruling over Norse, Danes and Irish alike.

http://macdonnellofleinster.org/page_13c_clan_donalds_viking_roo.htm

"son of the king of Lochlann"

Does anyone remember I posted in this thread and the Doggerland thread that the area in N/W Germany, Frisia, Denmark, all that together, was called "Lochlann" according to an old source (19th century)?

Maybe witkening can be equated with jarl.

Edited by Knul

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OK Abe, I scrutinised it some more.

Frya. Was wit lik snêi bij-t môrnerâd aend thaet blâw hjrar ôgnum wn-et jeta thêre rêinbôge of.

The word for white in the OLB is indeed wit.

The problem is there is no wit as white in the Frisian dictionary, although it has hwit as white.

The word white continues Old English hwīt, ultimately from a Common Germanic *χwītaz also reflected in OHG (h)wîz, ON hvítr, Goth. ƕeits. The root is ultimately from a PIE *kwid-, surviving also in Sanskrit śveta "to be white or bright"[2] and Slavonic světŭ "light".[3][4] The current Icelandic word for white, hvítur, is very closely related to the Old English and Old Norse forms of the word. Common Germanic also had the word *blankaz ("white, bright, blinding"), borrowed into Late Latin as *blancus, which provided the source for Romance words for "white" (French blanc, Spanish blanco, Italian bianco, etc.). The root survives in English in the word black.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White

Frya was wit, seems to me to not transfer exactly to white, even though white, hwit, might relate to wit, possibly a later word for 'bright' - wit.

wi-t (2), afries., st. N. (ja): Vw.: s. wit-t

wi-t-t 1, wi-t (2), afries., st. N. (ja): nhd. »Witz«, Wissen, Verstand; ne. wit (N.);

Hw.: vgl. got. *witi, an. vit (2), ae. witt, as. *wit (2)?, ahd. *wiz (1)?; Q.: E; E.:

germ. *witja-, *witjam, st. N. (a), Wissen, Verstand; s. idg. *øid-, Sb., Sehen,

Wissen, Pokorny 1125; vgl. idg. *øeid- (2), *øedi-, *udi-, V., sehen, erblicken,

finden, Pokorny 1125; vgl. idg. *aø- (8), *aøÐi-, V., sinnlich wahrnehmen,

auffassen, Pokorny 78; L.: Hh 131b, Rh 1153a

hwÆ-t* 27, hwÆ-t-t*, afries., Adj.: nhd. weiß, blinkend, glänzend; ne. white (Adj.);

Vw.: s. grÐ-; Hw.: vgl. got. ¸eits*, an. hvÆtr, ae. hwÆt (1), anfrk. wÆt, as. hwÆt*,

ahd. wÆz* (1); Q.: R, H, W, S; E.: germ. *hwÆta-, *hwÆtaz, *hweita-, *hweitaz,

Adj., weiß, licht; idg. *¨øeit-, Adj., V., leuchten, hell, weiß, Pokorny 628; s. idg.

*¨øei- (3), V., Adj., leuchten, hell, weiß, Pokorny 628; idg. *¨eu- (2), V., Adj.,

leuchten, hell, Pokorny 594; W.: nfries. wyt, Adj., weiß; W.: saterl. wit, Adj., weiß;

W.: nnordfries. wit, Adj., weiß; L.: Hh 49b, Rh 836b

Gotta go, back later.

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This picture of Krodo can be added.post-115881-0-43507400-1321318681_thumb.

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wit (n.)

"mental capacity," O.E. wit, more commonly gewit, from P.Gmc. *witjan (cf. O.S. wit, O.N. vit, Dan. vid, Swed. vett, O.Fris. wit, O.H.G. wizzi "knowledge, understanding, intelligence, mind," Ger. Witz "wit, witticism, joke," Goth. unwiti "ignorance"), from PIE *woid-/*weid-/*wid- "to see," metaphorically "to know" (see vision). Related to O.E. witan "to know" (source of wit (v.)). Meaning "ability to make clever remarks in an amusing way" is first recorded 1540s; that of "person of wit or learning" is from late 15c. For nuances of usage, see humor.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wit

This imo is related to wit, 'seeing' - all knowing. (vision, video)

From PIE wid - to see.

Witz.

wi-t-t 1, wi-t (2), afries., st. N. (ja): nhd. »Witz«, Wissen, Verstand; ne. wit (N.);

Hw.: vgl. got. *witi, an. vit (2), ae. witt, as. *wit (2)?, ahd. *wiz (1)?; Q.: E; E.:

germ. *witja-, *witjam, st. N. (a), Wissen, Verstand; s. idg. *øid-, Sb., Sehen,

Wissen, Pokorny 1125; vgl. idg. *øeid- (2), *øedi-, *udi-, V., sehen, erblicken,

finden, Pokorny 1125; vgl. idg. *aø- (8), *aøÐi-, V., sinnlich wahrnehmen,

auffassen, Pokorny 78; L.: Hh 131b, Rh 1153a

Frya was wit - a form of hwit as wit imo can only come before hwit - 'have wit'= be bright, understanding (of mind) = white.

Frya was wit like the snow at sunrise.

I'd say this wit/witt went into Dutch as witte, white but really came from the meaning 'to see/have wit'.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Finda. Was gêl aend hjr hêr sâ tha mâna êner hors: Could yellow 'gel', really equate to golden?

geld, afries., st. N. (a): Vw.: s. jeld

gel-d-en (1) 6, gol-d-en (1), gul-d-en (1), afries., Adj.: nhd. golden; ne. golden;

Hw.: vgl. got. gulþeins*, an. guldinn, ae. gylden, as. guldÆn*, ahd. guldÆn; Q.: R, E,

H, W; E.: germ. *gulþÆna-, *gulþÆnaz, Adj., golden; vgl. idg. *hel- (1), *ghel-?,

yellow

O.E. geolu, geolwe, from P.Gmc. *gelwaz (cf. O.S., O.H.G. gelo, M.Du. ghele, Du. geel, M.H.G. gel, Ger. gelb, O.N. gulr, Swed. gul "yellow"), from PIE *ghel- "yellow, green" (see Chloe). The verb meaning "to become yellow" is O.E. geoluwian.

From PIE ghel. The Frisian geld says this too - *ghel-

Yellow and golden are probably the same etymology - a word like ghel - hel is there because it means bright light also, the sun. Helios probably really means bright light, golden yellow light. I was thinking about this, if the Sun wasn't known to be central properly at that time, why would Helios' name mean central, as it does now. Hel-ios imo is a Fryan name, meaning bright light - hel. It was like gold - g-hel. Golden bright light. Hel was hot.

Money is gilda, gild, is golden or even gold covered.

goldun is the word for golden in the OLB. geldun, golden, gulden above.

Here's an interesting link:

Thju fêre thêra is wêst that tha Gola jeftha Trowyda

gola -

gela:

gÐl-a 3, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. verfolgen; ne. persecute; Vw.: s. ðt-; Hw.: s. gÐlene;

vgl. got. gæljan, an. gola; Q.: E, H, B, AA 14; E.: s. germ. *gæljan, sw. V.,

tönen, grüßen, reden machen; vgl. idg. *ghel-, V., rufen, schreien, Pokorny 428; L.:

Hh 34b, Rh 773b, AA 14

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It was the custom of the Jews in like manner to anoint themselves with oil, as a means of refreshing or invigorating their bodies (Deuteronomy 28:40; Ruth 3:3; 2 Samuel 14:2; Psalms 104:15, etc.). The Hellenes had similar customs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghee

Ghee appears to be a middle ground word - it's golden for sure and it's like gel and it sounds like ghe-l

Ghṛta (ghee) is the Sanskrit descendant of Proto-Indo-European *ghrei-, "to rub," "to anoint," which evolved into Khristós in classical Greek usage, meaning anointed or covered in oil, and was used to translate Hebrew "messiah" ("Anointed"), evolving into Latin Christus and English Christ. Christ" (pronounced /ˈkraɪst/) is a title derived from the Greek Χριστός (Christós), meaning the "Anointed One", a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Messiah)

ghrei - to rub, annoint. evolved into Kristos in Greek, ghrei = khri-stos = annointed one.

ghrei even sounds like the word Gree-k to me. The Hellenes did actually anoint themselves with oil, this ancient Greek way is well documented in bathing activities.

Why wouldn't they be called Ghrei's. Anointers of oil.

How ironic, that this word also goes through to Messiah and Christ.

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The 6-spoke wheel seems to indicate fortune.post-115881-0-53337300-1321347804_thumb.

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Prenter is not necessarily od Frisian. It still exists and means passagier.

prenter

1) Beroep 2) Iemand die voor zijn genoegen meegaat met een haringvisser 3) Passagier op een vissersboot 4) Persoonsbenaming 5) Plaats in Amerika

Gevonden op http://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/puzzelwoordenboek/pr

Of course "prentar" isn't old Frisian: it's a loanword from Latin/French.

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The 6-spoke wheel seems to indicate fortune.post-115881-0-53337300-1321347804_thumb.

It is an 8-spoked wheel in that image you posted.

The 6-spoked wheel (of Krodo) seems to symbolize time (Chronos):

Rad

Wie der Zyklus der Sonne und die Unendlichkeit des Universums in Zeit und Raum

Wind

der Atem oder Odem dieser Welt, der alles hier am Leben hält

Korb mit roten Rosen

das Sinnbild für Fruchtbarkeit, die Natur und die schützenswerte Umwelt

Fisch

Das Element Wasser, Nahrung und die späteren christlichen Werte unserer Gesellschaft

(Abb. Lt. Sachsenchronik 1492)

http://www.woick-wandern.de/crodo/crodo_plan.htm

Same site, translated into English:

http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woick-wandern.de%2Fcrodo%2Fcrodo_plan.htm

.

Edited by Abramelin

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It was the custom of the Jews in like manner to anoint themselves with oil, as a means of refreshing or invigorating their bodies (Deuteronomy 28:40; Ruth 3:3; 2 Samuel 14:2; Psalms 104:15, etc.). The Hellenes had similar customs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghee

Ghee appears to be a middle ground word - it's golden for sure and it's like gel and it sounds like ghe-l

Ghṛta (ghee) is the Sanskrit descendant of Proto-Indo-European *ghrei-, "to rub," "to anoint," which evolved into Khristós in classical Greek usage, meaning anointed or covered in oil, and was used to translate Hebrew "messiah" ("Anointed"), evolving into Latin Christus and English Christ. Christ" (pronounced /ˈkraɪst/) is a title derived from the Greek Χριστός (Christós), meaning the "Anointed One", a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Messiah)

ghrei - to rub, annoint. evolved into Kristos in Greek, ghrei = khri-stos = annointed one.

ghrei even sounds like the word Gree-k to me. The Hellenes did actually anoint themselves with oil, this ancient Greek way is well documented in bathing activities.

Why wouldn't they be called Ghrei's. Anointers of oil.

How ironic, that this word also goes through to Messiah and Christ.

The alternative explanation is:

Greek (n.)

O.E. Grecas, Crecas (pl.), early Germanic borrowing from L. Graeci "the Hellenes," from Gk. Grakoi. Aristotle, who was the first to use Graikhos as equivalent to Hellenes ("Meteorologica" I.xiv), wrote that it was the name originally used by Illyrians for the Dorians in Epirus, from Graii, native name of the people of Epirus.

But a modern theory (put forth by German classical historian Georg Busolt, 1850-1920), derives it from Graikhos "inhabitant of Graia" (lit. "gray"), a town on the coast of Boeotia, which was the name given by the Romans to all Greeks, originally to the Greek colonists from Graia who helped found Cumae (9c. B.C.E.), the important city in southern Italy where the Latins first encountered Greeks. Under this theory, it was reborrowed in this general sense by the Greeks.

The Germanic languages originally borrowed the word with an initial -k- sound (cf. O.H.G. Chrech, Goth. Kreks), which probably was their initial sound closest to the Latin -g- at the time; the word was later refashioned.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=greek

.

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It is an 8-spoked wheel in that image you posted.

The 6-spoked wheel (of Krodo) seems to symbolize time (Chronos):

Rad

Wie der Zyklus der Sonne und die Unendlichkeit des Universums in Zeit und Raum

Wind

der Atem oder Odem dieser Welt, der alles hier am Leben hält

Korb mit roten Rosen

das Sinnbild für Fruchtbarkeit, die Natur und die schützenswerte Umwelt

Fisch

Das Element Wasser, Nahrung und die späteren christlichen Werte unserer Gesellschaft

(Abb. Lt. Sachsenchronik 1492)

http://www.woick-wandern.de/crodo/crodo_plan.htm

Same site, translated into English:

http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woick-wandern.de%2Fcrodo%2Fcrodo_plan.htm

.

You are right. Interesting site for Krodo.

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I glance at this debate every few days but I just could not resist this one. If I understand the discussion correctly, Knul and Abramelin keep on saying that the English words in the Oera Linda Book are proof that the Oera Linda Book is a hoax. If anything, I would rather say they are, in fact, proof of its authenticity (Knul, admittedly, refers to “Modern English”).

Our “trusty” Wikipedia has the following to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Frisian

“Old Frisian is a West Germanic language spoken between the 8th and 16th centuries in the area between the Rhine and Weser on the European North Sea coast. The Frisian settlers on the coast of South Jutland (today's Northern Friesland) also spoke Old Frisian but no medieval texts of this area are known. The language of the earlier inhabitants of the region between the Zuiderzee and Ems River (the Frisians famously mentioned by Tacitus – AD 56 to AD 117) is attested in only a few personal names and place-names. Old Frisian evolved into Middle Frisian, spoken from the 16th to the 19th century.

“In the early Middle Ages, Frisia stretched from the area around Bruges, in what is now Belgium, to the Weser River, in northern Germany. At the time, the Frisian language was spoken along the entire southern North Sea coast. This region is referred to as Greater Frisia or Frisia Magna, and many of the areas within it still treasure their Frisian heritage. However by 1300, their territory had been pushed back to the Zuiderzee (now the IJsselmeer), and the Frisian language survives along the coast only as a substrate.

The people from what are today northern Germany and Denmark who settled in England from about 400 onwards came from the same regions and spoke more or less the same language as the people who lived in Frisia (as medieval Friesland is usually called to distinguish it from the present-day regions with that name). Hence, a close relationship exists between Old Frisian and Old English.

“Generally, Old Frisian phonologically resembles Old English. In particular, it shares the palatalisation of velar consonants also found in Old English. For example, whereas the closely related Old Saxon and Old Dutch retain the velar in dag, Old Frisian has dei and Old English has dæġ [dæj]. When followed by front vowels the Germanic /k/ softened to a /tʃ/ sound. The Old Frisian for church was tzirke or tzerke, in Old English it was ċiriċe [ˈtʃiritʃe], while Old Saxon and Old Dutch have the unpalatalised kirika. Another feature shared between the two is Anglo-Frisian brightening, which fronted a to e under some circumstances. In unstressed syllables, o merges into a, and i into e as in Old English.” Etc. etc

From the above, it is realistic to accept that Old English developed out of Old Frisian. Yet, if one looks at a few language trees, the “experts” say that both developed in parallel from the old West Germanic language. So, somebody seems to be wrong. These same experts will have it that Afrikaans developed from Dutch and that Afrikaans and Flemish developed independently from one another. Yet, Afrikaans is much closer to Flemish than to Dutch. This tells me that these language experts are not always correct.

As for Knul’s attempt to prove that Halbertsma wrote the OLB: We have discussed this at length several months ago. In fact I showed that not even Ottema considered Halbertsma as a possibility. Now Knul comes with this “big revelation” as if no one in the Netherlands has ever considered Halbertsma. Over the last 140 years, and 17 months’ debate in this forum, nobody could prove that the OLB is a hoax. All the hoax theories are based on conjecture and by ignoring or denying the written statements, letters and other 19th century facts surrounding the book. I am yet to see a single proven fact that will support their theory. I am still baffled by the Dutch academics that are not even prepared to consider the fact that the OLB is true.

The proof of the Oera Linda lies in all the historical, archaeological and other scientific facts in the book that were not known in the 19th century. In the second edition of my book I have added many more of these facts. Unfortunately, this forum just ignores this overwhelming factual evidence as well, and continues to steer the discussion back to the language aspects. Abe and some other Dutch speaking people regard this as their strong point because, as a rule, no outsider should be able to challenge them on their own language. When people like me, who can read Dutch, point out the flaws in their arguments, they again simply ignore these and return to the language aspects. This has been the Dutch’s tactics for 140 years and people like Puzzler keep falling into the trap.

Lets face it guys, I have proven beyond doubt that the OLB is authentic. People like Jacques Fermaut who lectured French, Dutch and Latin and who has translated the OLB into French, agrees with me; so does Anthony Radford who wrote “From Goddess to King” and of course, Dr. JG Ottema who translated the OLB into Dutch. So, I believe I am in good company.

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I glance at this debate every few days but I just could not resist this one. If I understand the discussion correctly, Knul and Abramelin keep on saying that the English words in the Oera Linda Book are proof that the Oera Linda Book is a hoax. If anything, I would rather say they are, in fact, proof of its authenticity (Knul, admittedly, refers to Modern English).

Our trusty Wikipedia has the following to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Frisian

No Alewyn, it's different: it's about MODERN English words showing up in the OLB, that's English from about 15-1600 AD and onwards.

And something else: can you tell me why there is an obvious French/Latin loanword in the OLB, "prentar" ??

.

Edited by Abramelin

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The proof of the Oera Linda lies in all the historical, archaeological and other scientific facts in the book that were not known in the 19th century. In the second edition of my book I have added many more of these facts. Unfortunately, this forum just ignores this overwhelming factual evidence as well, and continues to steer the discussion back to the language aspects. Abe and some other Dutch speaking people regard this as their strong point because, as a rule, no outsider should be able to challenge them on their own language. When people like me, who can read Dutch, point out the flaws in their arguments, they again simply ignore these and return to the language aspects. This has been the Dutch’s tactics for 140 years and people like Puzzler keep falling into the trap.

Lets face it guys, I have proven beyond doubt that the OLB is authentic. People like Jacques Fermaut who lectured French, Dutch and Latin and who has translated the OLB into French, agrees with me; so does Anthony Radford who wrote “From Goddess to King” and of course, Dr. JG Ottema who translated the OLB into Dutch. So, I believe I am in good company.

- Everything that shows up in the OLB was known in the 19th century, and that's before the time the OLB was published. They used myths and legends from Frisians, Germans, Greeks, Romans and so on. With a 'twist' of course.

- I have shown you and everyone that I can use my highschool knowlegde of Middle Dutch to translate a whole lot of the OLB text.

And then another 'advantage' of being Dutch in this thread: a lot has been published in Dutch about the OLB. And there lies another problem: if no Otharus, no Knul nor myself translates into English, a lot of info will never be available for the rest of the world.

- And then that bull about "Dutch tactics". Well, that's another one; we had "agenda" for a couple of times already.

- Alewyn, you claim to have proven the OLB beyond any doubt to be authentic. You name a couple of people as backup who, however, didn't have much of the present info available when they wrote their books or created their websites.

If you were seriously interested in a topic that started with your book, then you should have read about things which at least should have made your fierce conviction in the OLB's authenticity cool down a bit.

A nice one, I think, was posting that 16/17th century map made by Schotanus.

It shows the Frisian Middle Sea, and lo and behold: Pillars of Hercules ("Herculis Columnae") near its entrance. And what I even didn't notice at first (Knul did) is that exactly that map was owned by Halbertsma.

(Btw, it just shows I do not only base my skepsis on the OLB language; it's one example of many other things I posted that had nothing to do with language)

.

Edited by Abramelin

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This picture of Krodo can be added.post-115881-0-43507400-1321318681_thumb.

I think this is the older, original one from the Sassenchronik:

krodo2.jpg

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Maybe witkening can be equated with jarl.

Jarl = earl.

Sea-kings they called themselves. On land the ruler of a province might be called either earl or king, but the earl who went abroad with his followers on warlike excursions was content with no less name than king, and the chiefs who set out on plundering cruises became from the first known as sea-kings.

http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=morris&book=scandinavian&story=seakings

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wit (n.)

"mental capacity," O.E. wit, more commonly gewit, from P.Gmc. *witjan (cf. O.S. wit, O.N. vit, Dan. vid, Swed. vett, O.Fris. wit, O.H.G. wizzi "knowledge, understanding, intelligence, mind," Ger. Witz "wit, witticism, joke," Goth. unwiti "ignorance"), from PIE *woid-/*weid-/*wid- "to see," metaphorically "to know" (see vision). Related to O.E. witan "to know" (source of wit (v.)). Meaning "ability to make clever remarks in an amusing way" is first recorded 1540s; that of "person of wit or learning" is from late 15c. For nuances of usage, see humor.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wit

This imo is related to wit, 'seeing' - all knowing. (vision, video)

From PIE wid - to see.

Witz.

wi-t-t 1, wi-t (2), afries., st. N. (ja): nhd. »Witz«, Wissen, Verstand; ne. wit (N.);

Hw.: vgl. got. *witi, an. vit (2), ae. witt, as. *wit (2)?, ahd. *wiz (1)?; Q.: E; E.:

germ. *witja-, *witjam, st. N. (a), Wissen, Verstand; s. idg. *øid-, Sb., Sehen,

Wissen, Pokorny 1125; vgl. idg. *øeid- (2), *øedi-, *udi-, V., sehen, erblicken,

finden, Pokorny 1125; vgl. idg. *aø- (8), *aøÐi-, V., sinnlich wahrnehmen,

auffassen, Pokorny 78; L.: Hh 131b, Rh 1153a

Frya was wit - a form of hwit as wit imo can only come before hwit - 'have wit'= be bright, understanding (of mind) = white.

Frya was wit like the snow at sunrise.

I'd say this wit/witt went into Dutch as witte, white but really came from the meaning 'to see/have wit'.

Wit >> White

Wit >> Wise

Read this about the "Witte Wieven":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witte_Wieven

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The 6-spoked wheel (of Krodo) seems to symbolize time (Chronos)

In India it is known as the wheel of Kali and as the wheel of time.

There is also a tradition to make cookies in the shape of this wheel for Christmas... (JUL in Swedish)

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From the above, it is realistic to accept that Old English developed out of Old Frisian. Yet, if one looks at a few language trees, the “experts” say that both developed in parallel from the old West Germanic language. So, somebody seems to be wrong.

I think it's good to distinguish "Old-Frisian" as we know it (from the medieval laws) from the OLB language; proto-Frisian or Fryan?

The latter could in fact be the "old West Germanic language" of the "experts".

In that case they are right IMO: Old-English and Old-Frisian are cousins that both descend from 'Fryan'.

These same experts will have it that Afrikaans developed from Dutch and that Afrikaans and Flemish developed independently from one another. Yet, Afrikaans is much closer to Flemish than to Dutch.

Similarly, Dutch, Flemish and Afrikaans are cousins that evolved out of old-Dutch (or old-'Westfrisian').

This tells me that these language experts are not always correct.

That is, of course, a fact.

Edited by Otharus

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As for Knul’s attempt to prove that Halbertsma wrote the OLB: We have discussed this at length several months ago. In fact I showed that not even Ottema considered Halbertsma as a possibility. Now Knul comes with this “big revelation” as if no one in the Netherlands has ever considered Halbertsma.

Ottema, in fact (just like you and me), considered nobody as a possible 'hoaxer'.

More significantly, Dr. Jensma and other Frisian experts, who are much better informed (and also more benullig) than Knul, don't consider the possibility that Halbertsma was involved in any way.

Over the last 140 years, and 17 months’ debate in this forum, nobody could prove that the OLB is a hoax.

That is correct.

All the hoax theories are based on conjecture and by ignoring or denying the written statements, letters and other 19th century facts surrounding the book. I am yet to see a single proven fact that will support their theory. I am still baffled by the Dutch academics that are not even prepared to consider the fact that the OLB is true.

I have good hope that this will change some day.

Did Jensma comment on your book yet?

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Over the last 140 years, and 17 months’ debate in this forum, nobody could prove that the OLB is a hoax.

That is correct.

The flip side of this is that nobody has proven it's true, either. And that, supposedly, is what this thread is about.

cormac

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