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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

11,638 posts in this topic

If you know it all, as you claim, then you also know that it doesn't support either a 2200 BC date or the more ridiculous 3000 BC date.

cormac

http://www.theplasmaverse.com/pdfs/geulogy/The-Kaali-crater-field-Saaremaa-Island-Estonia.pdf

The pollen spectrum from the bottom has been dated c. 3700 years old.

Radiocarbon yeilded a date of 4000 years old.

Based on the silicate spherules, they get 5500-5600 years ago, which would be very interesting as it would put the Phaethon myth way back to 3600BC, which would show that the people who became Celts were able to orally keep myths at least that far back.

No, I wasn't trying to change anything - it seemed you were - you speculate cities said to be Sodom and Gomorrah were dated as around 3000BC gone by then, but Abraham wasn't even around then. To speculate that these cities are Sodom and Gomorrah does not fit into the Bible's so-called given chronology. I'm happy to stick Abraham at 3000BC myself but it clashes with the rest you know...

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http://www.theplasmaverse.com/pdfs/geulogy/The-Kaali-crater-field-Saaremaa-Island-Estonia.pdf

The pollen spectrum from the bottom has been dated c. 3700 years old.

Radiocarbon yeilded a date of 4000 years old.

Based on the silicate spherules, they get 5500-5600 years ago, which would be very interesting as it would put the Phaethon myth way back to 3600BC, which would show that the people who became Celts were able to orally keep myths at least that far back.

No, I wasn't trying to change anything - it seemed you were - you speculate cities said to be Sodom and Gomorrah were dated as around 3000BC gone by then, but Abraham wasn't even around then. To speculate that these cities are Sodom and Gomorrah does not fit into the Bible's so-called given chronology. I'm happy to stick Abraham at 3000BC myself but it clashes with the rest you know...

And AMS dating from the main crater lake was dated c.1690-1510 B.C.

Source: The age of the Kaali meteorite craters and the effect of the impact on the environment and man: evidence from inside the Kaali craters, island of Saaremaa, Estonia (2004)

As to Numeira and Bab edh Dhra, no I'm NOT speculating, that's actually what the radiocarbon dating has shown.

cormac

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And AMS dating from the main crater lake was dated c.1690-1510 B.C.

Source: The age of the Kaali meteorite craters and the effect of the impact on the environment and man: evidence from inside the Kaali craters, island of Saaremaa, Estonia (2004)

As to Numeira and Bab edh Dhra, no I'm NOT speculating, that's actually what the radiocarbon dating has shown.

cormac

The pdf I gave was from 2010. I do know that the dates vary accordingly as we have shown and the timeframe is anything but conclusive.

If the date of c. 3000 is better suited to a meteor impact or even shower, and Sodom and Gomorrah may be dated to that time, maybe the timeframe of the Bible is much earlier than we think.

More recently, researchers have hypothesized that a Middle East disaster which could have sparked the Sodom and Gomorrah legend may have been caused by the back plume of a massive meteor which exploded over the Austrian Alps in 3123 B.C, causing plumes to reach all the way down to the area.Sodom and Gomorrah Wiki, link below.

From this source:

A Cuneiform clay tablet that has puzzled researchers for over 150 years is now believed to describe an asteroid impact in 3123 BC in Austria. Researchers believe the tablet, which seemingly describes a cataclysmic event, may account for the biblical tale of Sodom and Gomorrah. No mention of pillars of salt however, on the clay tablet.

Geologists discovered evidence of a giant landslide centered at Köfels, Austria back in the 19th century. At 500 meters thick and five kilometers in diameter, this landslide mystified researchers trying to figure out why such an event occurred. Some researchers thought the landslide may have been caused by a meteorite impact, because of the evidence of crushing pressures and explosions. But there was no crater, so it didn’t look as an impact site should, and the impact theory fell out of favor. But researchers knew this wasn’t just an ordinary landslide.

But new research brings the impact theory back into play. It centers on another 19th century mystery, a Cuneiform tablet in the British Museum, known as “the Planisphereâ€. It was found in the remains of the library in the Royal Place at Nineveh, and was made by an Assyrian scribe around 700 BC. It is an astronomical work with drawings of constellations and the text has known constellation names. The clay tablet has attracted a lot of attention but until now no one has come up with a convincing explanation as to what it is.

Alan Bond and Mark Hempsell from Bristol University used computer programs to simulate trajectories and reconstruct the night sky thousands of years ago to establish what the Planisphere tablet refers to. It is a copy of the night notebook of a Sumerian astronomer as he records the events in the sky before dawn on the 29 June 3123 BC (Julian calendar). Half the tablet records planet positions and cloud cover, but the other half of the tablet records an object large enough for its shape to be noted even though it is still in space. The astronomer made an accurate note of its trajectory relative to the stars, which to an error better than one degree is consistent with an impact at Köfels.

The observation suggests the asteroid is over a kilometer in diameter and the original orbit about the Sun was an Aten type, a class of asteroid that orbits close to the earth, that is resonant with the Earth’s orbit. This trajectory explains why there is no crater at Köfels. The incoming angle was very low (six degrees) and means the asteroid clipped a mountain near the town of Längenfeld, 11 kilometers from Köfels, and this caused the asteroid to explode before it reached its final impact point. As it travelled down the valley it became a fireball, about five kilometers in diameter (the size of the landslide). When it hit Köfels it created enormous pressures that pulverized the rock and caused the landslide but because it was no longer a solid object it did not create a classic impact crater.

Mark Hempsell, hinting at the possible fate of Sodom and Gomorrah, added, “Another conclusion can be made from the trajectory. The back plume from the explosion (the mushroom cloud) would be bent over the Mediterranean Sea re-entering the atmosphere over the Levant, Sinai, and Northern Egypt. The ground heating though very short would be enough to ignite any flammable material – including human hair and clothes. It is probable more people died under the plume than in the Alps due to the impact blast.â€

This evidence seems to coincide with the biblical story of the legendary dens of vice (“Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah – from the Lord out of the heavens†– Genesis 19:24) but it’s never been categorically proven that the towns actually existed in their suspected location close to the Dead Sea. And the story of Lot’s wife turning into a pillar of salt for turning around to witness the mayhem is just biblical legend as well.

http://www.universetoday.com/13560/evidence-of-asteroid-impact-for-sodom-and-gomorrah/

The sites you gave:

Possible candidates for Sodom or Gomorrah are the sites discovered or visited by Walter E. Rast and R. Thomas Schaub in 1973, including Bab edh-Dhra, which was originally excavated in 1965 by archaeologist Paul Lapp, only to have his work continued by Rast and Schaub following his death by accidental drowning in the waters off of Cyprus in 1970. Other possibilities also include Numeira, es-Safi, Feifeh and Khanazir, which were also visited by Schaub and Rast. All sites were located near the Dead Sea, with evidence of burning and traces of sulfur.[14][15] Archaeological remains excavated from Bab edh-Dhra are currently displayed in Karak Archaeological Museum (Karak Castle) and Amman Citadel Museum.

Another possible candidate for Sodom is the Tall el-Hammam dig site which began in 2006 under the direction of Steven Collins. Tall el-Hammam is located in the southern Jordan river valley approximately 14 kilometers Northeast of the Dead Sea. The ongoing dig is a result of joint cooperation between Trinity South Western University and the Department of Antiquities of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.[16] The tall proper is 36 hectares while the footprint size of general settlement extends beyond this well over 40 hectares. Due to the size this puts Tall el-Hammam as one of the largest Bronze sites that has been discovered in Jordan. Analysis of the findings indicates that the site was occupied from the Chalcolithic period on up the Iron Age (however there may likely be period gaps as well, along with evidences of destruction). In addition there is evidence of Hellenistic, Eastern Roman, and Byzantium occupation on the site.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Again, a mention of the same as when the 2 sites you gave showed signs of sulphur and burning. c. 3000BC.

The OLB mentions no impact or meteor shower so a conclusion could be made one did not happen at c. 2200BC but rather at c. 3000BC - so it does not actually prove the OLB wrong, only Alewyn's theory of the impact at the same time. Again, it's OT now and could probably deserve a thread of it's own.

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The flood described in the OLB is likely not to be the flood, that caused Atland to sink (derived from the Bible), but the Cimbrian flood, which mostly is dated ca. 300 BC. It is not known, what caused the Cimbrian flood, but I can imagine an eruption of the volcanos on Iceland, causing a tsunami on the northern European coasts.

Edited by Knul

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The OLB mentions no impact or meteor shower so a conclusion could be made one did not happen at c. 2200BC but rather at c. 3000BC - so it does not actually prove the OLB wrong, only Alewyn's theory of the impact at the same time. Again, it's OT now and could probably deserve a thread of it's own.

Doesn't validate it either. As for Wiki's mention of the Tall el-Hammam Site in Jordan, it existed from c.3600 to 1550 BC so wasn't destroyed as one of the "cities of the plain" as mentioned in the Bible. So no matter which way one turns in trying to validate the OLB this way, there end up more walls in which to climb.

cormac

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The flood described in the OLB is likely not to be the flood, that caused Atland to sink (derived from the Bible), but the Cimbrian flood, which mostly is dated ca. 300 BC. It is not known, what caused the Cimbrian flood, but I can imagine an eruption of the volcanos on Iceland, causing a tsunami on the northern European coasts.

Yes, that would be the later description of the flooding of Friesland and I also mentioned, it sounded rather catastrophic, the land bowed to the North etc. but I, at least, know that that flood is not the 2193BC event.

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Evidences? From 2350BC there seems to be indications of an impact. The impact may not have occurred at 2193BC anyway, the fallout geologically may have have happened for 200-300 years. Not the most reliable website but certainly gives a complete rundown of all occurrances relating to such an event at this time.

etc., etc.

Regardless of your stance, I believe it is very possible an impact occurred 2350-2200BC.

If it's true Hale-Bopp passed in 2213 BC, it is even more likely that impacts from it could have also hit Earth.

A very interresting post, Puzzler but I am afraid it will fall on barren soil here. I do not think that Cormac and Abramelin necessarily disagree with you, but to them agreement is a sign of weakness. Why do you think they have not agreed to a single point I have made in 19 months?

Cormac gets his kicks out of sarcasm and ridiculing others; to him these are the essentials of scholarly debate. (I know, I also find it difficult to understand). The fact that he deems it necessary to muster the support of someone like Knul, is equally strange. They are indeed strange bedfellows.

Abramelin is not afraid to post things that may go against his standpoint, but then he does his utmost to show why they are wrong or do not fit. (Again, difficult to understand).

But, let me not disappoint them. Herewith some more material to keep them going. They should get a lot of pleasure from this one it is a somewhat dramatized prologue to my second edition:

Prologue

Is this how it happened 4200 years ago?

The converging trajectories of the comets Oljato, Hale-Bopp and the giant proto-Encke had been intersecting Earths orbit for months; lesser asteroids and comets trapped in their wake. Those entering the atmosphere exploded high above the earth; their white-hot fragments streaking across the sky, followed by deafening sonic booms. Petrified, people watched as falling stars and flaming potsherds pummelled the planet. Raging fires and devastating air blasts laid millions of square kilometres of forests and grasslands to waste.

Then the mortal blow came. One of several large bolides struck the Indian Ocean 1500 kilometres southeast of Madagascar with the force of several million nuclear warheads; the sound heard from the extremities of the earth to the extremities of heaven. The impact flung trillions of tons of seawater and superheated steam into the stratosphere. Tectonic plates shook and rocked violently on the planets built-in shock absorber - the viscous magma of the underlying mantle. Around the globe volcanoes erupted. A thick ash and dust cover enveloped the earth, lit by lightning bolts emanating from the clouds. Temperatures plummeted.

Tsunamis from the impact and from thousands of earthquakes sped around the earth in a frenzy of destruction. The concentric walls of water towered hundreds of meters above the ocean as they raced towards land. Torrents of seawater rained down. Cities, towns and forests were crushed and swept away in an instant. Pulverized. Obliterated. Millions died. Those that were in the dark of night could not see it coming. They never knew what hit them.

The massive aftershocks continued for three years. Icebergs broke away from the polar caps. The resulting ice rafting inverted the thermohaline circulation of the oceans causing abrupt climate changes all over the planet.

The combined effects of the onslaught and the gravitational pull of the comets thrust Earth out of her orbit. Survivors would only notice later when the skies had cleared that earths orientation had changed.

In China, ancient cultures came to an end. The urban civilization of the Indus Valley in Pakistan and India was wiped out and in the Middle East, the Empire of Akkad would never recover. In Egypt, the Old Kingdom, the builders of the great pyramids, was destroyed. Over the next few centuries, the once rolling grasslands of North Africa turned to desert as the Albedo increased and rainfall decreased; the great lakes, now flooded with salt water, dried up. Man came to the brink of extinction. All that remained were the myths, folklore and legends. More than four thousand years later archaeologists would discover their relics in the sand.

In Europe, the most advanced civilization on the face of the earth seemingly disappeared without a trace. Seemingly…

This is their story.

Edited by Alewyn

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I think that weapon - according to the OLB - should have been made of iron.

Possibly, they do mention having iron very early, prior to when we know the iron age as being - unless 'aser' itself is being translated wrong and does not actually mean iron, even though it came to mean it. Or they used iron much earlier than we know they do.

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Doesn't validate it either. As for Wiki's mention of the Tall el-Hammam Site in Jordan, it existed from c.3600 to 1550 BC so wasn't destroyed as one of the "cities of the plain" as mentioned in the Bible. So no matter which way one turns in trying to validate the OLB this way, there end up more walls in which to climb.

cormac

I wonder if anyone investigated where Strabo located it...

Strabo states that locals living near Moasada (as opposed to Masada) say that "there were once thirteen inhabited cities in that region of which Sodom was the metropolis". Strabo identifies a limestone and salt hill at the south western tip of the Dead Sea, and Kharbet Usdum ruins nearby as the site of biblical Sodom.[4]

Archibald Sayce translated an Akkadian poem describing cities that were destroyed in a rain of fire, written from the view of a person who escaped the destruction; the names of the cities are not given.[5] However, Sayce later mentions that the story more closely resembles the doom of Sennacherib's host.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

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I do not think that Cormac and Abramelin necessarily disagree with you, but to them agreement is a sign of weakness.

And you'd be wrong as no one, yourself included, has actually provided verifiable evidence of an impactor c.2200 BC. Speculation heaped upon speculation has been as far as it's gone.

Why do you think they have not agreed to a single point I have made in 19 months?

Try dropping the errant belief that the 2193/2194 BC date has any significant meaning, which it doesn't, and we just might agree on something.

Cormac gets his kicks out of sarcasm and ridiculing others; to him these are the essentials of scholarly debate.

Nope, I get bent out of shape when people such as yourself attempt to pidgeon-hole multiple events from a larger timeframe into a specific date and claim it's a fact. It's not.

cormac

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I wonder if anyone investigated where Strabo located it...

Strabo states that locals living near Moasada (as opposed to Masada) say that "there were once thirteen inhabited cities in that region of which Sodom was the metropolis". Strabo identifies a limestone and salt hill at the south western tip of the Dead Sea, and Kharbet Usdum ruins nearby as the site of biblical Sodom.[4]

Archibald Sayce translated an Akkadian poem describing cities that were destroyed in a rain of fire, written from the view of a person who escaped the destruction; the names of the cities are not given.[5] However, Sayce later mentions that the story more closely resembles the doom of Sennacherib's host.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Someone probably has, but I wonder where the inhabitants Strabo mentions came up with thirteen inhabited cities. AFAIK, both from Biblical accounts as well as being mentioned on clay tablets there are only ever 4 or 5 mentioned.

cormac

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Nope, I get bent out of shape when people such as yourself attempt to pidgeon-hole multiple events from a larger timeframe into a specific date and claim it's a fact. It's not.

cormac

It is strange that you do not “get bent out of shape” by Knul’s very limited skills in rhetoric or the complete absence of facts in his arguments.

Double standards or rather, “My enemy’s enemy is my friend”?

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It is strange that you do not “get bent out of shape” by Knul’s very limited skills in rhetoric or the complete absence of facts in his arguments.

Double standards or rather, “My enemy’s enemy is my friend”?

Honestly, I very rarely pay much attention to Knul's posts as they have more to do with the linguistics of the situation (something of which many in just this thread can't even agree on), and what I'm most interested in are the so called "facts" that are thrown about here in support of the OLB's claims and those of the relevant parts of your book that are mentioned in this very long thread. Neither of which are as factual as they're made out to be. It's not my fault that you're hung up on a specific date, but that doesn't make it true, especially for EVERYTHING.

Besides, neither Knul nor any of the others have made it a point to go on and on about having written a book based on the OLB, many of the facts therein of which are quite often questionable and rather speculative in their own right, yet presented as factual. Again, that's no my doing.

cormac

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I think that weapon - according to the OLB - should have been made of iron.

If they had iron weapons, that doesn't mean they ONLY had iron weapons.

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p. 239-einde Met de komst van Friso (ca. 300 v. Chr.) is voor het eerst sprake van stalen kraanbogen (catapulten).

Page 239? OLB does not go beyond page 210.

In what fragment did you read about steel catapults?

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If they had iron weapons, that doesn't mean they ONLY had iron weapons.

Iron has the nasty habit to rust. After 4000 years there would be nothing left.

Why do you think the "19th century authors" of the OLB decided that the Fryans had to be in the iron age?

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The flood described in the OLB is likely not to be the flood, that caused Atland to sink (derived from the Bible), but the Cimbrian flood, which mostly is dated ca. 300 BC. It is not known, what caused the Cimbrian flood, but I can imagine an eruption of the volcanos on Iceland, causing a tsunami on the northern European coasts.

An old post:

< skip >

That 2200 BC date for the climactic change appears not to be 2200 BC, but 2350 BC.

The recently discovered date for a worldwode climactic change, 850 BC, is nowhere to be found on the OLB.

About the date of the 2nd disaster in the OLB, the flood of around 306 BC (Frethorik's writings), I said that people in the 19th century could not have known about that or the socalled Dunkirk I Transgression.

But this morning I remembered I had found an earlier source for that date, a Frisian source... and that I had already posted about it: post 3157, page 211.

350 of 360 voor Christus. De Kimbrische vloed.

De zeventiende eeuwse Friese geschiedschrijver Chr. Schotanus schreef over de Kimbrische vloed;

“Omtrend den jare nae de scheppinghe der werelt 360 ofte 350 voor de geboorte Jesu Christi is door stormen en tempgeesten een schricklijke watervloed over alle zee-custen van Duytsland gelopen, die veel vee ende mensen heeft vernielt.Dit eerste en oudste vloet, daer men gedachtenis af kan hebben, die oock so men meent, alle eylanden, aan de Friessche custen , van’t vaste land afgescheurt en vele binnenwateren ende meeren gemaekt heeft, daer de monden van de rivieren, voorhenen, met enghe gaten in ze uitliepen.

http://www.lutebouwer.com/stormvloeden.htm

Translation:

The 17th century Frisian historian Chr. Schotanus wrote this about the Cymbrian Flood:

About the year 360 or 350 before the birth of Jesus Christ a terrible flood, caused by violent storms, hit all the sea coasts of Germany, a flood that destroyed many cattle and people. This first and oldest flood which can be remembered, could also have ripped all the islands on the Frisian coast from the mainland, and have created many inlets and lakes because formerly the mouths of the rivers ended up in them through narrow entrances.

Compare the dates:

Science (21th century/New York tsunami): 200 - 400 BC ("around 300 B.C., give or take a century"

OLB (19th century): 305 BC

Schotanus (17th century) : 350/360 BC.

< skip >

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A very interresting post, Puzzler but I am afraid it will fall on barren soil here. I do not think that Cormac and Abramelin necessarily disagree with you, but to them agreement is a sign of weakness. Why do you think they have not agreed to a single point I have made in 19 months?

Abramelin is not afraid to post things that may go against his standpoint, but then he does his utmost to show why they are wrong or do not fit. (Again, difficult to understand).

I have agreed with certain pionts you made in the past, I even found things that could in a way help you.

They just don't convince me enough to make me believe the OLB is a true account of ancient history.

Just read what I posted before this one, about the OLB 306 BC flood. At first I thought, "Hey, in the 19th century they did not know of the Dunkirk Transgressions!" Only to find out that already in the 17th century someone came up with a date of 360/350 BC for the Cimbrian flood.

And why did the "vampyra" thing drop dead so sooon?

To me the answer is bloody obvious....

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I should add that that legend about a (second) Frisian colony in Switzerland dates from the time of Charlemagne.

Found another nice titbit of info:

Page 199 of the next pdf mentions an old script in use amongst the Germans before they adopted Greek letters, then they started using Latin letters, and then finally their own letters again.

http://images.tresoar.nl/wumkes/pdf/BolhuisvanZeeburghJ_KritiekFriescheGeschiedsschrijving.pdf

If it weren't runes, what script did the Germans use?

Even Caesar in his "Bello Gallico" says the Helvetians used Greek script.

As far as I know, no runes were in use or even invented before that time.

Bit more about who invented what script.

In the OLB it was Frya, in Germany it was Tuitsch/Tuisto, and both around the same time:

Just found an online copy of Turmair's "Bayerische Chronik & Deutsche Chronik"

http://www.bayerische-landesbibliothek-online.de/aventin

Here a screenshot of Buch I, capitel 13, page 83:

Tuitsch_script.jpg

And it's about how King Tuitsch (Tuisco) invented writing..

.

Another old post:

I think the 19th century writers of the OLB took Tumair's work "seriouslÿ", LOL !!.

It appears to me that it has been a centuries old tradition to link one's national history to the ancient Greeks and Trojans, or even further back, to Biblical patriarchs.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OK, here's the list of the Teutonic kings:

All the Terms of Office are in years BC:

1 Tuitsch or Tuisto, son of Noah: Ruler over 32 Counties (??). Term of office: 2214-2038 (2214-1978)

Noah gave him the land between the Don and the Rhine, which was then called Greater Germany. He made Köln-Deutz into his Capital

2 Mannus or Mann, Term of office: 1978-1906 (1978-1912)

Only in 1978 Mannus takes over the government of Western Europe and is the successor to his father Tuitsch.

3 Eingeb or Ingaevon, term of office: 1906-1870 (1912-1872)

Son of Mannus or Ninus - Asshur - was the German Mercury.

His wife Freia was the German Venus.

4 Ausstaeb or Istaevon, term of office: 1870-1820 (1872-1820)

Son of Eingeb. Ausstaeb was the German Mars.

5 Herman, son of Ausstaeb 1820-1757

6 Mers 1757-1711

7 Gampar 711-1667

8 Schwab, father of the Schwabe nation 1667 to 1621

9 Wandler 1621-1580

10 Deuto, father of the Teutonics 1580-1553

11 Alman (Allmann or Altman), the German Hercules. 1553-1489

12 Baier 1489-1429

13 Ingram or Ingramus 1429-1377

14 Adalger or Adelges 1377-1328

15 Larein 1328-1277

16 Ylsing or Ulsing. This is the Trojan

Ulysses of Tacitus. He is also the Greek Odysseus,

of the Atlantic who had been traveling and had visited the Rhine 1277-1224

17 Brenner or Breno, son of Ylsing. 1224-1186

18 Heccar (Hykar or Highter) Brenner's son. He is the

Hector from the first famous Trojan War. 1186-1155

19 Frank (Francus or Franco) 1155-1114

20 Wolfsheim Siclinger 1114-1056

21 Kels, Gal and Hillyr 1056-1006

22 Alber 1006-946

23 Walther, Panno and Scharde 946-884

24 Main, Ängel and Treibl 884-814

25 Myela, Laber and Penno 814-714

26 Venno and Helto 714-644

27 Mader (Madyas) 644-589

28 Brenner II and Koenman. After the death of Koenman the

Bavarians in Italy were led by the following kings: Zeck,

Ber (the founder of Bern or Verona) and Breitmar. 589-479

29 Landein with his sons 479-399

30 Brenner III 399-361

31 Schirm, the son of Brenner III. He and his son Brenner IV

ruled until 60 years after Alexander's death - although Brenner IV

died earlier. Brenner organized a powerful attack on

Greece, looted Macedonia and the oracle

in Delphi but was killed in 279 killed. 361-263

32 Thessel, son of Brenner IV 279-194

33 Dieth I 194-172

34 Baermund and Synpol 172-127

35 Boiger, Kels and Teutenbuecher 127-100

36 Scheirer 100-70

37 Ernst (Arionistus) and Vocho 70-50

38 Pernpeist. After the expulsion from Italy, the Bavarians lived 127 years

on the Drava and Danube. During the rule of Pernpeist

they left their home and settled on the rivers Dniester and Dnieper,

where they were located for about 550 years 50-40

39 Cotz, Dieth II and Creitschir approximately 40-13

40 From this time there is anarchy in the German area, where

the ruling families cancel each other out. The Franks then

take the lead. See: "Compendium", chapter XII A.

http://394430.forumromanum.com/member/forum/forum.php?action=ubb_show&entryid=1097346039&mainid=1097346039&USER=user_394430&threadid=2

.

MythicalTeutonicRulers.jpg

If you want to know wheh all these ancient Teutonic kings lived and what they did, read this:

COMPENDIUM OF WORLD HISTORY

VOLUME 2

A Dissertation

Presented to

The Faculty of the Ambassador College

Graduate School of Education

In Partial Fulfillment

of the Requirements for the Degree

Doctor of Philosophy

by

Herman L. Hoeh

1963

1966, 1969 Edition

Then scroll down to this:

KINGS OF ANCIENT GERMANY

http://www.cgca.net/coglinks/wcglit/hh_cmpndm2.txt

http://lcgmn.com/wp-content/uploads/Herman%20Hoeh%20-%20Compendium%20of%20World%20History%20Vol.%202.pdf

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Please read again this post:

Btw, my point about the whole Frisian "Dea Hludana" thing was that if these ancient Frisians (who no doubt were not called Frsians 3000 something years ago) were indeed related/equal to the Tuatha De Danaan, then why doesn't the OLB even mention those travels to Ireland and all the adventures there?

From what I found (and yes, that's only one 19th century source) these Tuatha De Danaan came from the lowlands area between the Rhine and Elbe, an area called "Lochlann". Combine that with this Frisian "Dea Hludana" (= the famous/great goddess Dana??), then one can only conclude these mythical Tuatha were no one else but the ancestors of the Frisians (who, by 1000 BC, were still hanging out in southern Sweden/Norway, Denmark and Schleswig-Holstein, and were maybe only recently entering the N/E coast of the Netherlands).

Origins of the Frisians (1750 B.C. - 700 B.C.)

fries-1.gif

http://www.boudicca.de/frisian1.htm

The source I quoted from in one of my former posts of yesterday already suggested this Hludana may have been Freya/Frija. Btw, "De Vries", a Dutch historian/germanist, suggested that Hludana may have been a Frisian "Earth Mother Goddess" ( http://www.hetrad.nl/asatru/goden/inheems/inheems.html ), which would fit the OLB's description of Frya quite nicely.

All that, and still nothing Irish/Ireland in the OLB.

These 19th century guys have missed a great chance...

:rolleyes:

.

I have been thinking of this "Lyda", one of the OLB 'Earth Mothers' together with Frya and Finda.

When you Google "Hludana" you will inevitable end up on sites which explain the name as "Frau Holle", "Holda", "Hel", and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Hulda

And nowhere do I see the -HL- of Hludana change into a -L- .

"Lyda" would be pronounced like "Lee-dah".

But then I thought about the Jewish "Ludim", a Hebrew name for the Lydians in Anatolia.

So if it is possible that LYDA <=> LUDA, then a connection with that ancient Germanic goddess HLUDANA seems possible.

Ludo is een Engelse jongensnaam/ Ludo is an English boy's name.

De betekenis van de naam is `beroemde krijger`./ The meaning of the name is "famous warrior".

http://babybytes.nl/namen/jongens/Ludo

=

Babynaam/Baby name:Ludo

Geslacht/Gender: Mannelijk/Male

Oorsprong/Origin: Engels/English

Betekenis Ludo/ meaning Ludo: Roemvolle strijder, strijder om een buit; Beroemde krijger/ Glorious warrior, warrior for loot; Famous warrior

http://www.allebabynamen.nl/jongensnamen/l/ludo

==

LUDO is een verkorting van Ludovicus, Latijnse variant van LODEWIJK/LUDO is an abbreviation of Ludovicus, a Latin variant of LODEWIJK

Betekenis

Samengestelde Germaanse naam:

1] 'Lod-' of 'Lode-' doorgaans verklaard als 'roemvol', 'beroemd' (vgl. 'luid'), maar Van

der Schaar vermoedt op taalkundige gronden dat een herleiding tot het Germaanse

woord 'Hlod' = 'buit' etymologisch waarschijnlijk juister is;2] '-wijk', '-wig' of '-vik' = 'strijd(er)'

Dus 'strijder om buit'.

Vaak uitgelegd als 'roemvolle strijder', maar op grond van bovenstaande overweging

waarschijnlijk onjuist.

De variant 'Ludo' komt veel voor in de Zuid-Nederlandse provincies Brabant en Limburg.

http://www.heiligen.net/pdf/L/LUDO~ABLODEWIJK.pdf

The underlined line means: "Van de Schaar presumes on linguistic grounds that a connection to the Germanic word 'Hlod' = 'loot' is probably more right" So it would be "warrior for loot".

Edited by Abramelin

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Iron has the nasty habit to rust. After 4000 years there would be nothing left.

Exactly.

Why do you think the "19th century authors" of the OLB decided that the Fryans had to be in the iron age?

Can you explain what you mean with this?

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Can you explain what you mean with this?

I was joking, meaning that this is most likely what the supporters of the hoax theory would tell us.

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Google "oldest steel".

Anyway, the silence about "vampyra" is deafening, lol.

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Google "oldest steel".

Anyway, the silence about "vampyra" is deafening, lol.

Otharus and I both answered you concerning vampyra.

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Don`nt know much about the Oera Linda Book, all I know is science has proven there was no world wide flood or that the black sea ever rapidly flooded. However around 2300 years ago there was a great tsunamis that hit New York.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20020871-501465.html

That coincides with the discovery of a prehistoric boat which had been buried for more than 2,000 years.

Scientists believe a cataclysmic flood between 800 and 500BC transformed the landscape from a low-lying area of woodland into open water

which coincides with the lost city of Tartesso 595bc

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/around-yorkshire/local-stories/discovery_of_log_boat_shows_how_sea_levels_rose_in_past_1_2293328

Edited by docyabut2

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