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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

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It's true that I don't know how that date of 2194 BC came into being, but let's say I am busy trying to find out.

I respect that and am interested.

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I have found a lot about those Jupiter/Saturn conjunctions and what people once believed in the disasters they would bring, but then you need to have a lot of experience with this material to even understand what it is all about. And that, I think, would lead us too far away from the topic.

To give you all an 'impression' what *I* am on about:

Our earliest surviving account of the Persian astrological theories of world history was written down by the Persian Jew, Masha'allah (740 - 815). The theory of Jupiter-Saturn cycles and historical epochs was set out in his On Conjunctions, Religions and Peoples, and he related the astronomical pattern to socio-political and religious shifts which occurred every 240 years, and the periodic conflagrations or catastrophes, such as Noahs flood, which were thought to take place every 960 years.

The logic was that, at this moment, a new cycle of time began, within which all possibilities for that cycle were contained. Masha'allah included the horoscopes for the spring equinoxes preceding the Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions prior to the great deluge (it was believed that the rains which caused the flood began at midnight precisely on 18 February 3101 BCE with a conjunction of planets in Pisces, appropriately the last of the water signs) and the births of both Christ and Mohammed.

http://www.zyntara.com/VisualAstrologyNewsletters/van_Feb2011/VAN%20Feb2011.htm

"Every 960 years"

Another 'candidate' would be, simply following the numbers given: 3101-960=2141 BC

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I have also wondered why those (national) yellow flowers changed into red and looked like hearts.

Are there still old flags/emblems around with these flowers still being yellow?

Not the flowers are used, but the leaves.

Nuphar_lutea_170803.jpg

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They may have looked at the stars, but the air in Holland is mostly cloudy and not as bright as in Egypt. I think most knowledge here comes from Copernicus. s. http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Copernicus.

That's no argument: we have observatories here in The Netherlands. I grew up near one: someone had built a tower with a dome at the side of his house. Small, true, but an observatory alright.

I will try to find a photo.

++++

EDIT:

Loevesteinlaan, The Hague:

obs1_1196072010_2540118.jpg

Edited by Abramelin

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Not the flowers are used, but the leaves.

Nuphar_lutea_170803.jpg

LOL, yeah of course.

Well, then the question remains why and also when did they change the color from green to red? And why?

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This is Radboud with shield, by Pier Winsemius in "Chronique ofte Historische geschiedenisse van Vrieslant" (1662):

Radboud.jpg

Edited by Otharus

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Btw, if I find out how that date of 2194 BC came into being, it wouldn't prove or disprove anything.

It could be someone in the 19th century - but most probably some centuries earlier - came to that date by astrological calculations.

Or an earlier people - Europeans? People from Mesopotamia? Egyptians? The Jews? - had already calculated that date and others used it as a 'mythical starting date' for the beginning of a new era, combining it with ancient stories about disasters.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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First page of Die cronycke van Hollandt, Zeelandt ende Vrieslant, better known as Divisiekroniek (1519) by Cornelius Aurelius.

divisiekroniek.jpg

Transcription by Karin Tilmans (source):

"Die Chronyk van Hollandt, Zeelandt

ende Vriesland, beghinnende van Adams

tyden, tot die geboerte ons Heren Jhesu,

voortgaende tot den jare M CCCCC ende

xvij. Met den rechten oerspronc, hoe Hollandt

eerst begrepen ende bewoent is gheweest van

den Troyanen. Ende is inhoudende van die herto

gen van Beyeren, Henegouwen ende Bourgongen;

die tijt dat si an 't graefscap geweest hebben;

met die cronike der biscoppen van Uutrecht,

seer suverlic geëxtendeert ende in 't lange verhaelt."

Translation of underlined fragment:

"With the right origin, how Holland was first taken and inhabited by the Trojans"

Edited by Otharus

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Many Europeans in the early middle ages claimed descendence of Jews, Greeks, Trojans and/or Egyptians: the Franks, the Saxons/Germans, the Scots, the English, and so on.

What the OLB did was was say "No", it's the other way round.

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To show you all once again why I think the OLB most certainly mentions astronomy/astrology:

Hwat hyr boppa staet send thi têkna fon thaet jol. Thaet is thaet forma sinnebild Wr.aldas, âk fon t-anfang jeftha-t bijin, wêrut tid kêm, thaet is thene Kroder thêr êvg mith thaet jol mot ommehlâpa.

What appears at the top is the signs of the Juul—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda, also of the origin or beginning from which Time is derived; this is the Kroder, which must always go round with the Juul.

Wralda created time, Kroder carries it around.

Chronos is about the passage of time, and that would be equal to the Kroder/Carrier who carries time around the Yule/Year wheel.

Kroder => kruier => carrier.

What the kruier/carrier uses is a 'kroder' or wheelbarrow.

The Christian Chi-Rho sign:

9ig2z5.jpg

chi_rho1.jpg

The OLB describes the same sign, and calls the loop of the -P- the "kroder", or wheelbarow.

WRALDA-YULE.jpg

Try not to think of the sky as flat. Rather, imagine a small ball inside a very big ball. Now imagine that you are standing on the small ball at its north pole. All around you from your zenith (straight overhead) to your horizon you can see the inside of the big ball. On it are painted the stars and constellations. Now imagine that the ball you are standing on starts to spin slowly on its north /south axis. Remember, you are standing on the top of its northern axis of rotation. You would begin to notice the constellations moving around you. If you looked straight up, you would see the North Star, Polaris. If you watched the rotation of the objects for one full turn of the small ball, you would notice that everything had turned nicely around Polaris. You would also be able to see all of the constellations moving around your horizon. This is very much how you would see the heavens from our north pole.

The following animation illustrates how the Big Dipper would move around Polaris and the Little Dipper.

lildipanim.gif

62BBD448-ED94-4299-A500-51BF130477B4.jpg

.

Edited by Abramelin

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For the record, "Mare Mediterraneu" a.k.a. "Middel Zee" in 1519 Divisiekroniek (1st division, 5th capittel, p.004v):

middelzee.jpg

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To show you all once again why I think the OLB most certainly mentions astronomy/astrology:

Hwat hyr boppa staet send thi têkna fon thaet jol. Thaet is thaet forma sinnebild Wr.aldas, âk fon t-anfang jeftha-t bijin, wêrut tid kêm, thaet is thene Kroder thêr êvg mith thaet jol mot ommehlâpa.

What appears at the top is the signs of the Juul—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda, also of the origin or beginning from which Time is derived; this is the Kroder, which must always go round with the Juul.

Wralda created time, Kroder carries it around.

Chronos is about the passage of time, and that would be equal to the Kroder/Carrier who carries time around the Yule/Year wheel.

Kroder => kruier => carrier.

What the kruier/carrier uses is a 'kroder' or wheelbarrow.

The Christian Chi-Rho sign:

9ig2z5.jpg

chi_rho1.jpg

The OLB describes the same sign, and calls the loop of the -P- the "kroder", or wheelbarow.

WRALDA-YULE.jpg

Try not to think of the sky as flat. Rather, imagine a small ball inside a very big ball. Now imagine that you are standing on the small ball at its north pole. All around you from your zenith (straight overhead) to your horizon you can see the inside of the big ball. On it are painted the stars and constellations. Now imagine that the ball you are standing on starts to spin slowly on its north /south axis. Remember, you are standing on the top of its northern axis of rotation. You would begin to notice the constellations moving around you. If you looked straight up, you would see the North Star, Polaris. If you watched the rotation of the objects for one full turn of the small ball, you would notice that everything had turned nicely around Polaris. You would also be able to see all of the constellations moving around your horizon. This is very much how you would see the heavens from our north pole.

The following animation illustrates how the Big Dipper would move around Polaris and the Little Dipper.

lildipanim.gif

62BBD448-ED94-4299-A500-51BF130477B4.jpg

.

This one is missing.

post-115881-0-73109100-1324230453_thumb.

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Here is finally the printscreen of the Hynlepre Almanak 1679, pag. 194

post-115881-0-30575600-1324230739_thumb.

Edited by Knul

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This one is missing.

Nice find. This is also a word/name connected with Time.

Another one that would be really great is the Fryan/Frisian word/combination of words, totalling 6 letters, and meaning 'the end'.... "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End"

-

Say Menno, on your site I searched through the list of books once owned by Over de Linden, and the one from Halbertsma's library.

I am sure an Over de Linden knew a lot about navigational calculations; I myself have a book about seamanship, "LEERBOEK DER ZEEVAARTKUNDE, bewerkt door (edited/adapted by) H. Tjepkema" (Noorduijn and Sons/Groningen, 1956), and he no doubt would know about the 'celestial' things I posted about here.

There are too many clues in the OLB about astronomy/astrology to just ignore.

Even a Halbertsma commented on an astrologer when analyzing the Van Haren chronicles.

Here is finally the printscreen of the Hynlepre Almanak 1679, pag. 194

"Finally"??

I already posted that one.

I know you didn't, but I did.

Anyway, here's a screenshot of that Hindelooper Almanak:

HindelooperAlm_194.jpg

1679-4005=2326 > 2326+1=2327 BC.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Found another one:

Den grooten Brugschen comptoir-almanach voor het jaar 1756, 1774, 1790

http://books.google.nl/books?id=SaVBAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=oldenburg+almanach&source=bl&ots=rwZH8q8Yq9&sig=hHjNVx_9JDDuvF2O3-MGCy8J17s&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=2LfsTpSIBYq0-QbUnLGJAg&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

Brugschencomptoir-almanach_1774.jpg

1774-4067=2293 >> 2294 BC.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Menno, kerel, try to read what any of us has posted.

An idea: before you log off, save the url of the page you were on.

When you want to return, enter that url in your browser so you can read what we all have posted after you left.

Just an idea.

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From one of the many books on astrology I possess (a book some would kill for to get their hands on):

From: "Encyclopedia of Medical Astrology" by Howard Leslie Cornell, M.D., LL.D. (Honorary Professor of Medical Astrology at the First National University of Naturopathy and Allied Sciences, Newark, N.J./ Third Revised Edition/ Samuel Weiser, INC, New York, New York 10003/ 1933 and so on):

Comets_Cornell.jpg

You see anything familiar here?

++++++

EDIT:

No more need to kill, I just found out it is available online:

http://books.google.nl/books?id=N_1P5FYlB6UC&pg=PP2&lpg=PP2&dq=Encyclopedia+of+Medical+Astrology%22+by+Howard+Leslie+Cornell,+M.D.,+LL.D.+(Honorary+Professor+of&source=bl&ots=iifOF66jZo&sig=G4bMIcFF5P2dIXMY9rULQX5W5es&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=ekfuTvOlLYGb-gaw4KiJAg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Encyclopedia%20of%20Medical%20Astrology%22%20by%20Howard%20Leslie%20Cornell%2C%20M.D.%2C%20LL.D.%20(Honorary%20Professor%20of&f=false

But I doubt they copied all the 958 pages.

(No, someone just uploaded 88+ pages, heh, And that would amount to a lot more pages on that website. Anyone who doesn't believe I own the book, just ask me to post a page of the book that isn't available online)

.

Edited by Abramelin

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This is what someone in the 19th century, practising/believing in astrology, would have believed in, or would have written about to make up a captivating story. What I posted about the socalled 'effects' of the appearence of a comet in the skies is a carbon copy of the disaster story in the OLB.

I know, some of you will say the book I made a screenshot of was from the 20th century, but Cornell based much of his book on what he read in centuries old books on astrology.

All I need to find out now is who of the 'suspects' practised (read) astrology(books).

.

Edited by Abramelin

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That is not nearly enough.

I talk about an ephemeris, planet tables used to calculate the position of sun, moon, planets and varous other heavenly features (Caput Draconis, Caudis Draconis, ""fixed stars" and so on) for a certain point in time.

I have a complete 20th Century Ephemeris, if that's any help. I'd say they clearly knew this type of info in the centuries preceeding it.

Venus as Aphrodite (Venus) is the one we know best but maybe Lyda and Finda do have watchstars, we are just unaware of them.

Yes, the comet description does fit well. WHat is the heading before Comets, it has the 6 spoked symbol and talks about fair and beautiful...

Comets_Cornell.jpg

Comets are well known for co-inciding with terrible times and were actually bringers of doom big time.

This appearance of the comet is also noted in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. Eilmer of Malmesbury may have seen Halley previously in 989, as he wrote of it in 1066: "You've come, have you? ... You've come, you source of tears to many mothers, you evil. I hate you! It is long since I saw you; but as I see you now you are much more terrible, for I see you brandishing the downfall of my country. I hate you!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halley's_Comet

Edited by The Puzzler

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To show you all once again why I think the OLB most certainly mentions astronomy/astrology:

Hwat hyr boppa staet send thi têkna fon thaet jol. Thaet is thaet forma sinnebild Wr.aldas, âk fon t-anfang jeftha-t bijin, wêrut tid kêm, thaet is thene Kroder thêr êvg mith thaet jol mot ommehlâpa.

What appears at the top is the signs of the Juul—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda, also of the origin or beginning from which Time is derived; this is the Kroder, which must always go round with the Juul.

Wralda created time, Kroder carries it around.

Chronos is about the passage of time, and that would be equal to the Kroder/Carrier who carries time around the Yule/Year wheel.

Kroder => kruier => carrier.

What the kruier/carrier uses is a 'kroder' or wheelbarrow.

The Christian Chi-Rho sign:

9ig2z5.jpg

chi_rho1.jpg

The OLB describes the same sign, and calls the loop of the -P- the "kroder", or wheelbarow.

WRALDA-YULE.jpg

Try not to think of the sky as flat. Rather, imagine a small ball inside a very big ball. Now imagine that you are standing on the small ball at its north pole. All around you from your zenith (straight overhead) to your horizon you can see the inside of the big ball. On it are painted the stars and constellations. Now imagine that the ball you are standing on starts to spin slowly on its north /south axis. Remember, you are standing on the top of its northern axis of rotation. You would begin to notice the constellations moving around you. If you looked straight up, you would see the North Star, Polaris. If you watched the rotation of the objects for one full turn of the small ball, you would notice that everything had turned nicely around Polaris. You would also be able to see all of the constellations moving around your horizon. This is very much how you would see the heavens from our north pole.

The following animation illustrates how the Big Dipper would move around Polaris and the Little Dipper.

lildipanim.gif

62BBD448-ED94-4299-A500-51BF130477B4.jpg

.

The Chi-Ro sign does appear to be an emulation of the wheelbarrows, yes. Christianity in it's earliest stages was very astrological.

The Alexandrians were syncretic, and a letter inserted in the Augustan History, ascribed to the Emperor Hadrian, refers to this indifference:

The land of Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about by every breath of rumour. There those who worship Serapis are, in fact, Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact, devotees of Serapis. There is no chief of the Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Christian presbyter, who is not an astrologer, a soothsayer, or an anointer. Even the Patriarch himself, when he comes to Egypt, is forced by some to worship Serapis, by others to worship Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapis

Their is...no Christian presbyter, who is NOT an astrologer etc.

Edited by The Puzzler

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The worship of Serapis seems to be a precursor to the worship of Christ.

The Roman cults of Isis and Serapis gained in popularity late in the 1st century thanks to the god's role in the miracles that the imperial usurper Vespasian experienced in the city of Alexandria, where he stayed prior to his return to Rome as emperor in 70 AD. From the Flavian Dynasty on, Serapis sometimes appeared on imperial coinage with the reigning emperor. The great cult survived until 385, when a Christian mob destroyed the Serapeum of Alexandria, and subsequently the cult was forbidden by the Theodosian decree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapis

So we have people who worship Serapis, "who are in fact, Christians," with this God (Serapis) performing miracles in the 1st century AD - bit suss...?

Later in 385AD a Christian mob destroyed the Serapeum of Alexandria. It became a forbidden cult.

Almost like a new wave of Christians who followed the Christ got rid of the original form of Christianity, of Isis and Serapis.

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I have a complete 20th Century Ephemeris, if that's any help. I'd say they clearly knew this type of info in the centuries preceeding it.

Venus as Aphrodite (Venus) is the one we know best but maybe Lyda and Finda do have watchstars, we are just unaware of them.

Yes, the comet description does fit well. WHat is the heading before Comets, it has the 6 spoked symbol and talks about fair and beautiful...

Comets_Cornell.jpg

Comets are well known for co-inciding with terrible times and were actually bringers of doom big time.

This appearance of the comet is also noted in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. Eilmer of Malmesbury may have seen Halley previously in 989, as he wrote of it in 1066: "You've come, have you? ... You've come, you source of tears to many mothers, you evil. I hate you! It is long since I saw you; but as I see you now you are much more terrible, for I see you brandishing the downfall of my country. I hate you!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halley's_Comet

I have lots of ephemerids, but what we need is some software to be able to calculate planetairy positions of more than 4000 years ago. And even the result of that would only be an approximation, and then we still don't know who used what ephermeris.

==

The heading before "Comets" is "Comely", and the 6-spoked sign is the astrological sign for a 60-degrees aspect called 'sextile'.

==

Btw, I am not out to promote astrology, I am trying to prove someone based part of his (OLB) story on astrology.

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I have lots of ephemerids, but what we need is some software to be able to calculate planetairy positions of more than 4000 years ago. And even the result of that would only be an approximation, and then we still don't know who used what ephermeris.

==

The heading before "Comets" is "Comely", and the 6-spoked sign is the astrological sign for a 60-degrees aspect called 'sextile'.

==

Btw, I am not out to promote astrology, I am trying to prove someone based part of his (OLB) story on astrology.

Cool, me too, I agree it's a logical conclusion. I have been wrapping my head around the stars for days now, staring out the star map, trying to work out what the answer is. I haven't forgot that screen shot, I need to take a pic of the pic in the book.

Comely...hmm, ta.

PS: I use Cybersky, it works well and is free download. Might not be what you want though.

Edited by The Puzzler

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The Chi-Ro sign does appear to be an emulation of the wheelbarrows, yes. Christianity in it's earliest stages was very astrological.

The OLB 'kroder' or wheelbarrow carrying time around the Yule wheel has been created by someone who knew of the Chi-Rho sign with its alpha and omega, and changed the loop of the -P- (of Pax Christi) very creatively into a wheelbarrow.

Creatively, yes: look at the animation of the Little Dipper.

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This is not a screen shot of the pic in my book but this star chart/wheel shows the time around the edge -

51lUx0%2B-i1L._SS500_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Sky-Star-Wheel-Publishing/dp/1931559309/ref=pd_sim_b_1

24 hours go around the outside, this imo, would be as said, the 12 sons and 12 daughters.

I have this one for the Southern Sky, a bit useless for trying to locate stars in the North Sky...

planisphere.jpg

Edited by The Puzzler

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