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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

11,638 posts in this topic

No, no, no, the language used is a mix, an artificial mix, and somewhere in the beginning of this thread I called it "Frutch", FRisian.dUTCH. It's a mix of old and new Frisian, Dutch, English and lots of distorted modern German and French words. If you have a name for it, please tell me.

Fringlish?

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Here's the deal Abe, you think this is a hoax, I am open to it being a real account of the Frisians.

So, we debate about it. Sometimes I come over to your argument....if the facts seem to me to go that way, I'm not above that.

But every point you make I have to scrutinise.

That is what I have to do as the non-sceptic here isn't it?

You all hound us that we are the ones who need to show proof that it's real.

If you tell me the sky is purple, see, I don't really believe you, until I actually see the sky.

That's how I work here, you say:

Ottema, or someone added in an extra word and others must have copied it like that....

What sort of answer is that?

Not good enough for me - show me the line where it is written as something like 'hun belovande RA/RE ky' and I will believe you.

You know what we really need here? That is a photocopy of every page of the original manuscript, and then as accurately as possible translate (transliterate??) every letter of the 'running script' into Latin script. No interpretations, just put the text in Latin as exactly as we can following the Jule wheel thing.

[EDIT: and here they are, http://www.oeralindaboek.nl/boek/index.html , as far as I know, every page of the rriginal is there ]

And then we can see if it's true whether Ottema got some letter wrong. If you look at the original script it is not that strange that someone (f.i Ottema and Jensma) missed a stroke or point or what have we.

Not good enough for me - show me the line where it is written as something like 'hun belovande RA/RE ky' and I will believe you

I won't have to because that is not what I said.

In the sentence about the cows with golden horns you will see two times the word 'ra', right? No, it's not, actually you will see 'râ ' and ' ra '. Well, that is what I saw in either Ottema's or Overwijn's version.

And this is not just my opinion, but when this thread started I came upon a site that said that Ottema had made some errors when transliterating the OLB letters into Latin letters. An example could be that râ and ra thing.

"Râ" doesn't show up anywhere else as a separate word, and no doubt someone did see the difference with "Ra", and must have wondered how to translate this word, and guessed it was short for "râda" = Red.

But like I said, red is always "râda" or "râd" or "râde" in the OLB, never ever "râ".

So to me the "râ" word is nothing but a personal pronoun, something like 'to them'.

And "ky" is cows = koeien (in Dutch).

I have also posted the etymology of the word "ky", and it's plural for 'cu' (with a horizontal line on top if the -u-.

In Anglo Saxon:

singular /cow is "cu" like the (old) Dutch "koe" ( 'koe' is pronounced like "koo")

plural /cows is "cy" like the Old Dutch "koei" ( 'koei' is pronounced like "koo-ee")

(The modern Dutch plural for cows is a double plural, "koeien". Or in 19th century spelling, "koeijen".)

If I am still being cryptic in your ears, then I don't know how else to explain it.

Edited by Abramelin

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Fringlish?

Fringlutch??

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OK, I found the original text in the OLB - and in it's original script - about the 'cows with golden horns:

(it's the top of page number 3, according to the page numbers in the OLB itself)

OLB_cowswithgoldenhorns.jpg

thâ nam_er tha skênsta sinar finna änd mag_

yara.vrlovande ra ky mith golden horna sa

hja_ra thrvch vs folk fata dêdon.äfterdam.

sina lêr vtbrêda. men sin ljuda dêdon

Edited by Abramelin

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OK, I found the original text in the OLB - and in it's original script - about the 'cows with golden horns:

(it's the top of page number 3, according to the page numbers in the OLB itself)

OLB_cowswithgoldenhorns.jpg

thâ nam_er tha skênsta sinar finna änd mag_

yara.vrlovande ra ky mith golden horna sa

hja_ra thrvch vs folk fata dêdon.äfterdam.

sina lêr vtbrêda. men sin ljuda dêdon

I think you've had too many drinks...

That is the original OLB writing....I know what it says.

It says promised them cows with golden horns.

You didn't have to go to that much trouble, it's the exact same wording I've linked 20 times already...

yara vrlovande ra ky mith golden horna ,

http://www.archive.org/stream/thetoeralindabo01ottegoog/thetoeralindabo01ottegoog_djvu.txt

Now, when I first read it, I DID read it as promised RED COWS with golden horns.

But you said it says: promised them cows with golden horns.

In Dutch ra is transferring to them.

Now, if ra is Red, it would read promised red cows with golden horns (there would be no them in it, right, cause the word ra here is standing for red instead of them.

BUT the English version has promised them red cows...

It doesn't miss the 'them', it just adds red, so the word ra might not be being translated as red but the word KY is being translated as red cows...

I know, I'm over the red cows too.....

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I think you've had too many drinks...

That is the original OLB writing....I know what it says.

It says promised them cows with golden horns.

You didn't have to go to that much trouble, it's the exact same wording I've linked 20 times already...

yara vrlovande ra ky mith golden horna ,

http://www.archive.org/stream/thetoeralindabo01ottegoog/thetoeralindabo01ottegoog_djvu.txt

Now, when I first read it, I DID read it as promised RED COWS with golden horns.

But you said it says: promised them cows with golden horns.

In Dutch ra is transferring to them.

Now, if ra is Red, it would read promised red cows with golden horns (there would be no them in it, right, cause the word ra here is standing for red instead of them.

BUT the English version has promised them red cows...

It doesn't miss the 'them', it just adds red, so the word ra might not be being translated as red but the word KY is being translated as red cows...

I know, I'm over the red cows too.....

Hmm.. it's hard discussing with womem, jeesh.

My former post was not meant as criticism towards anyone, it was meant to show other people - not only you me and Alewyn - what we are dealing with. That's all.

But I should have added that a mistake lies around the corner. If you use that Yule wheel thing, you will see the several types of -a-. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish if one of the verticals is extended or not.

==

I transliterated the first word as 'thâ' ; I have seen a couple of transliteration that say 'tha'.

That is why I said in an earlier post we should check the original to see for ourselves, and not depend on the eyes of others.

Now, if you hit 'Control [+]' a couple of times when you look at the picture, you will maybe also see that there is a shadow of a flat connecting line, _ , between "vrlovande" and the next word "ra". I wasn't sure, so I transliterated it as two words, not as one word, "vrlovande_ra".

===

Yes, I know that you assumed that 'KY" must stand for "Red Cows".

Well, fine with me, "red cows" it is.

It's only in English that you get this, and English 'rules' the earth, so we will stick to 'red cows', ok?

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Fringlutch??

Dutch is a descendant of several Frankish dialects spoken in the High Middle Ages and Early Modern Times, and to a lesser extent of Frisian, that was spoken by the original inhabitants of Holland.

Frisian is not Dutch, Dutch is part Frisian.

I doubt the OLB has much Dutch in it quite frankly.

I know you think that's laughable but think about it, what Dutch words are in the original and are they really Frisian words you now use?

Hey that's weird, when I hold my button over the word ra in the OLB text in that link I gave you it translates to yard....lol - could it be promised yard cattle?

That makes me think again about the red cows.

It probably actually says: promised red cows with golden horns, the Dutch translation of ra to them is wrong I reckon.

Old English probably wouldn't have had the word them in that sentence.

The Dutch version:

hun belovende koeijen met gouden

hoornen

their promising cows with golden horns

You saw how the original said ra ky - above goes straight to promising cows, no ra or red or anything - he has changed the structure of the sentence really.

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Hmm.. it's hard discussing with womem, jeesh.

My former post was not meant as criticism towards anyone, it was meant to show other people - not only you me and Alewyn - what we are dealing with. That's all.

But I should have added that a mistake lies around the corner. If you use that Yule wheel thing, you will see the several types of -a-. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish if one of the verticals is extended or not.

==

I transliterated the first word as 'thâ' ; I have seen a couple of transliteration that say 'tha'.

That is why I said in an earlier post we should check the original to see for ourselves, and not depend on the eyes of others.

Now, if you hit 'Control [+]' a couple of times when you look at the picture, you will maybe also see that there is a shadow of a flat connecting line, _ , between "vrlovande" and the next word "ra". I wasn't sure, so I transliterated it as two words, not as one word, "vrlovande_ra".

===

Yes, I know that you assumed that 'KY" must stand for "Red Cows".

Well, fine with me, "red cows" it is.

It's only in English that you get this, and English 'rules' the earth, so we will stick to 'red cows', ok?

OK, I made my post before I saw this one but its 3am again and I have to go to bed but I will check the yule wheel thing then, not meaning to be a pain but if we really want to work this out it should really be checked out to see just what it says as best we can. Night all.

PS: OK.....lol, cause I really do think it is (red cows)...

I'm done with the red cows now.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Dutch is a descendant of several Frankish dialects spoken in the High Middle Ages and Early Modern Times, and to a lesser extent of Frisian, that was spoken by the original inhabitants of Holland.

Frisian is not Dutch, Dutch is part Frisian.

I doubt the OLB has much Dutch in it quite frankly.

I know you think that's laughable but think about it, what Dutch words are in the original and are they really Frisian words you now use?

Hey that's weird, when I hold my button over the word ra in the OLB text in that link I gave you it translates to yard....lol - could it be promised yard cattle?

That makes me think again about the red cows.

It probably actually says: promised red cows with golden horns, the Dutch translation of ra to them is wrong I reckon.

Old English probably wouldn't have had the word them in that sentence.

The Dutch version:

hun belovende koeijen met gouden

hoornen

their promising cows with golden horns

You saw how the original said ra ky - above goes straight to promising cows, no ra or red or anything - he has changed the structure of the sentence really.

"Frisian is not Dutch, Dutch is part Frisian.

I know you think that's laughable but think about it, what Dutch words are in the original and are they really Frisian words you now use?"

I don't know anymore what to say to this, but I do know that I have given several literal translations into what I know of Old Dutch, and these translations were almost carbon-copies of the original text. And no, I didn't think it's laughable what you said.

But I am really glad you acknowledge that the Dutch language descended from Frisian, amongst other languages . Btw, I also read somehwere, that the Frisian language not only influenced the Frankish language, but that Frisian kings and people created what we now know to be Franks. You want a link of course, and I will try to find it.

"Hey that's weird, when I hold my button over the word ra in the OLB text in that link I gave you it translates to yard....lol - could it be promised yard cattle? "

I posted a photo of the manuscript showing the line. Use the Yule wheel, and tell me what YOU now think it says...

--

EDIT:

"ra" is maybe translated into "yard" by wbatever translator you use, but maybe it's because it 'thinks' that "ra" is "are" (not the English 'are'), a unit of surface.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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OK, I made my post before I saw this one but its 3am again and I have to go to bed but I will check the yule wheel thing then, not meaning to be a pain but if we really want to work this out it should really be checked out to see just what it says as best we can. Night all.

PS: OK.....lol, cause I really do think it is (red cows)...

I'm done with the red cows now.

Rubbing eachother the wrong way is the way to get answers.

If you kept saying, "Yes Rob, you are right" and I say, "Thank you Puzz, great post", all the time, we would not get anywhere.

You maybe feel p***ed off by my attitude, and visa versa.

It's not a pleasant way to discuss, but it will get our blood boiling, and we will 'damn well' try to prove the other one wrong, LOL.

And let's hope that in that way we will find some true answers.

I will post a screenshot from the Yule Wheel code thing from Overwijn's book. The Yule thing in the Sacredtexts site is not clear enough.

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Here is a Dutch guy who posted a LOT on YouTube about Jensma's book about the OLB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQyWQ7zSjes&feature=watch_response_rev

He has many questions about Jensma's conclusions....

In this video this guy asks an answer from Jensma. And it's about why Ottema hanged himself. According to Jensma (and not only according to Jensma, btw), Ottema hanged himself because he finally realized that what he fiercely believed in for many years was nothing but a hoax, a fabulation. The guy asks if it's nothing but Jensma's feeling about it (to be honest, it's my feeling too), or that he can prove it with facts.

Just so you all know I do like to consider the two sides of the coin.

But I must add that Haverschmidt committed suicide too.

At the end of the year Ottema committed suicide, Haverschmidt, as the poet/writer/preacher he was, held a speech to his community ( I posted about it before), a speech that must have puzzled the members of his community, a speach in which he sort of admitted to be haunted by 'demons' that year, demons that made his life miserable.

And when his beloved wife also died, he couldn't take it any longer, and killed himself at the end of the 19th century.

I have read a lot about the lives of both these guys, in Dutch, and it will make your eyes wet if you only could read and understand it.

From all what I read, Haverschmidt was very deeply troubled by what happened to Ottema, a man he respected very much. It's like he felt extremely guilty to have collaborated in creating a fabulation that was only meant to be a teaching lesson about religion and gullibility, a fabulation that eventually ended with the suicide of an old man he respected very much.

He, as the (rather psychological unstable) poet/writer that he was, spent the rest of his life as a preacher, as a kind of penance for the 'sin' he committed....

.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Righto Abe, yep - I translated it as (for a start that vrlovande word is beloven in Dutch so vrlovan plus de for past tense): I was thinking de could be a seperate word but it seems to indicate past tense..

That word seems to stem from beloved/promised but I can't be sure.

OK, I see ra seems to translate to them if we follow it through to the second ra.

It is RA both times, not ra and re.

BUT I found something else -----

On that word ra meaning yard.

I found out that dairy cows, the b/w Frisian type cows, milk cows are actually called HOUSE COWS.

Cattle of certain breeds bred specifically for milk production are called milking or dairy cattle.[11]; a cow kept to provide milk for one family may be called a house cow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle

When I thought more about it, it could actually be the milking cow (Lactose thing) that was bought in by the Magyar - so to me, after more thought, the word cows here could actually translate to promised yard cows - promised house cows - dairy cows - with golden horns.

The red tricked me but y'know - house cow - dairy cows, black and white cow (I think Apis bull is b/w) milking cows actually makes more sense.

If it is yard though the word themselves seems to contradict - I am actually having a hard time making themselves out of ra thrutch.

Here's something I found on ra and yard - Scottish, as I guessed before.

From The Naval Miscellany - (naval..?)

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=EL3tcu52KlQC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=ra+means+yard&source=bl&ots=vdTOZHoizc&sig=melFAOgBr6kAyqCWoYe0G8o_qd0&hl=en&ei=f6N1TNfhEInCuAPZxYyPBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ra%20means%20yard&f=false

Pul doune the nok of the ra in daggar vyise. It says the nok of the ra is the YARD ARM.

That translation did have ra as YARD and here it is again - in Scottish naval talk - ra means yard. The nok is neck.

OK, I'll have to start again now - bear with me.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Sad story all round.

If the language is some fantastical made up mix, I wonder how Ottema was able to translate it in the first place.

Seems real to me, maybe just not known properly.

I did read this: http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/FILES/faculties/theology/2004/g.t.jensma/GemaskeerdeGod.PDF

I dunno, he makes a good case against Haverschmidt....

It could be a true account though, maybe, I'd have to read everything more thoroughly and I have to go out now, back tonight.

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I have no idea why this blank post came up, just editing to add this message.

Edited by The Puzzler

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If now only Haversschmidt hadn't been in nappies at the time.

(btw: As mentioned earlier, this man of the cloth denied any involvement)

No, he wasn't.

You keep saying that, but the OLB was published in 1867, and Haverschmidt was 32 years old by then. Someone said the manuscript was already in existence, when Haverrschindt was like 12 years old. I explained to you what was going on in an earlier post, my respons to what you said before and now again today.

I don't know, but if you don't want to read what I said earlier, what's the use of me posting it anyway?

And if you understand what was going with Haverschimdt. you will also understand why he denied any involvement.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Sad story all round.

If the language is some fantastical made up mix, I wonder how Ottema was able to translate it in the first place.

Seems real to me, maybe just not known properly.

I did read this: http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/FILES/faculties/theology/2004/g.t.jensma/GemaskeerdeGod.PDF

I dunno, he makes a good case against Haverschmidt....

It could be a true account though, maybe, I'd have to read everything more thoroughly and I have to go out now, back tonight.

I'm glad you finally read it, but it's only sort of an intro to his later book about the OLB. That book is online in Google, although only a couple of pages, and you will have to bend your neck in 90 degree angles to be able to read it, lol.

You wonder how Ottema could read it? How you think I am able to read it, although slowly and with difficulty? You think I am the reincarnation of Okke or something?? lol

And it took him years to transliterate the script into Latin script and to translate it. It's not an easy job: first you have to stare at the text till your eyes water to be sure you have the letters right, that you don't forget points and little connecting lines. Imagine doing that for hours on end with a magnifying glass and gaslight.

We have the text online now, and if we can't see it clear, then we can hit Control [+] and thus be able make one letter fill the entire screen.

He had a job during daytime, so he had to do his work on the OLB during the evening and the night.

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Did you catch my post about the yard arm?

Here's something else on that...

The word derives from the French raban, Dutch ra-band, from ra 'yard-beam' + band. Originally it was the rope that ties the sail to the yard, but soon came to mean a whip made of leather or tarred hemp, used to punish sailors (compare rope's end.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebenque

The other link said like Scottish naval - ra - yard arm.

I then said how cows, dairy cows particularly could be house cows, that is, yard cows, my friend has one, they live on a property but have one cow in the yard, she called it a house cow once, so ra kys, could in reality be yard? cows - maybe dairy cows, like the milk cows that have been shown to be bought into Northern Europe, the lactose thing.

But it doesn't seem to make sense in the second ra mentioned....yard selves - house selves - yard arm selves - ??? house selves is sorta like ourselves...??

Is that word even themselves??

Seriously though, ra is coming up as it could mean yard, which does really fit very well with cows, especially the dairy cows of Friesland.

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No, he wasn't.

You keep saying that, but the OLB was published in 1867, and Haverschmidt was 32 years old by then. Someone said the manuscript was already in existence, when Haverrschindt was like 12 years old. I explained to you what was going on in an earlier post, my respons to what you said before and now again today.

I don't know, but if you don't want to read what I said earlier, what's the use of me posting it anyway?

And if you understand what was going with Haverschimdt. you will also understand why he denied any involvement.

.

I read what you said earlier. This simply means that I do not agree with you.

Apart from the guys that said the manuscript was in existence "when Haverrschindt was like 12 years old", somebody else wrote in the newspaper in 1877 that the manuscript was known to have existed some 40 years before i.e. when Haverschmidt was like 2 years old. You also said that this was an ealier version, or prototype, of the later published manuscript.

I even "understand what was going with Haverschimdt". I also understand that he denied his involvement during the early stages of the controversy i.e. long before Ottema committed suicide. It is said that Haverschmidt and Ottema were friends and Haverschmidt had the greatest respect for Ottema. Would he then wilfully and knowingly have deceived Ottema, his "great friend", for years - fully realising that Ottema's stature would be severely damaged in the end when the "hoax" would inevitably be discovered?

If Haverscmidt did fabricate the "hoax", he would have been aware of Ottema's labours right from the start and could therefore have informed him of the "hoax" before things got out of hand. Yet, they became buddies. If I were Haverschmidt I would have avoided Ottema like the plague. If Haverscmidt was clever enough to have created this absolutely brilliant hoax, he would surely have been wise enough not to leave any traces linking him to the hoax or to Ottema. Yet, they corresponded for years.

I am sorry, but the theory that Haverscmidt committed the "hoax" is nothing more than very eloquently phrased speculation, as is the hint that he himself took his own life because he felt bad about Ottema. He became depressed after his wife's death and that was the cause of his death. If he had no remorse about Ottemas predicament during the latters life, why would he feel so bad only a few years after Ottema's death?

As the guy in the open question on u-tube asked professor Jensma: Did Ottema leave a note or told somebody that he was disillutioned because he wasted years on a hoax or is this just another groundless theory? I could argue that Ottema became depressed because, after having toiled for years, everybody ridiculed him and nobody believed in the greatest endevour of his life.

I can ask you the same question as I asked professor Jensma: If the OLB is a hoax, how come it accurately describes events, places and dates that was not known in the 19th century? You, and some others, just claimed that everything in the OLB was known in the 19th century and moved on. I again refer to my very first posting here (#9).

Lastly, as you and I both said: Why don't they do a forensic analysis on the paper and ink? That would settle the matter for once and for all; or is somebody afraid of the truth?

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Alewyn said: I could argue that Ottema became depressed because, after having toiled for years, everybody ridiculed him and nobody believed in the greatest endevour of his life.

I was going to write exactly that.

He was 75 when he died too, maybe he had an unknown illness. My pop shot himself because he had cancer. There is all sorts of speculations could be thrown around really.

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Here's another ra word:

"small deer," O.E. ra, from raha, from P.Gmc. *raikhon (cf. O.N. ra, Du. ree, O.H.G. reho, Ger. Reh "doe"), perhaps from PIE base *rei- "streaked, spotted." Roebuck is c.1400, from roe + buck.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=r&p=27

Old English ra means small deer. Old Norse is also ra.

I don't suppose that fits - promised small deer cows...? doe-eyed cows..hmm?? lol

small deer selves....doe selves, spotted...

doe a deer, a female deer (doe)

ra(k)y a drop of golden sun (spotted house cows with gold on them)

me, a name I call myself... (themselves)

Ah, I get it now.

Is there a musical code within it I wonder? I'm joking...I think :blink:

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Here's one the books:

Celt - Gaul - Gauliose - Gallus(rooster) - keep going.....The word comes from Germanic "Walha-"

Walha-llagaren

English word "Celt" is modern, attested from 1707 in the writings of Edward Lhuyd whose work, along with that of other late 17th-century scholars, brought academic attention to the languages and history of these early inhabitants of Great Britain.[14] The English form "Gaul" (first recorded in the 17th century) and "Gaulish" come from the French "Gaule" and "Gaulois", which translate Latin "Gallia" and "Gallus, -icus" respectively. In Old French, the words "gualeis", "galois", "walois" (NF phonetics keeping /w/) had different meanings : Welsh or the Langue d'oïl, etc. On the other hand, the word "Waulle" (NF phonetics keeping /w/) is recorded for the first time in the 13th century to translate the Latin word "Gallia" and then, "gaulois" is recorded for the first time in the 15th century and the scholars use it to translate the Latin words "Gallus" / "Gallicus". The word comes from Germanic *"Walha-". (see Gaul: Name) The English word "Welsh" originates from the word "wælisċ", the Anglo-Saxon form of "walhiska-", the Germanic word for "foreign".[15] or "Celt" (South. German Welsch(e) "Celtic speaker", "French speaker", "Italian speaker"; Old Norse "valskr", pl. "valir" "Gaulish", "French"), that is supposed to be derived of the Celtic tribe's name "Volcae", that is supposed to be derived of the Celtic tribe's name "Volcae"[16], that lived first in the South of Germany and emigrated then to Gaul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

Volcae...I'll come back to this info soon.

----

Quite frankly, I think the book is lamenting a whole lot of people, Kalta was part of it too, she fractured off to form the Celts accordingly, who once lived under the laws of the almighty God, who became weak from internal reasons combined with intrusions from stronger people with different Gods and ways, weakening and everyone forgetting to Watch - that by the time the super machines of Rome marched through their countries their days were numbered, even though they struggled and fought, many valiantly, unfortunately, for all the reasons the OLB gives us, the end was nigh.

300px-Dying_gaul.jpg

He leans upon his hand—his manly brow

Consents to death, but conquers agony,

And his drooped head sinks gradually low—

And through his side the last drops, ebbing slow

From the red gash, fall heavy, one by one...

Lord Byron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Gaul

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I was in the Old Europe thread Slim has and linked the Etruscan writing, which I have been looking at alot in the last few years.

I mentioned earlier to Abe that I thought it appeared to be back to front, mirror imaged as such, hence the need for so many mirrors in the Etruscan culture...

No literature, just thousands of religious writing or names to be found.

I recall Abe thought it was quite funny of me to suggest that - but in the OLB book it does say many other changed the writing, not only that, they hid it, coded it so no one else could read it.

What if Etruscan was coded in mirror image...?

OK, Rob, Alewyn, my name is Vanessa, it's an interesting name to bring up right about now cause I want to show you something to prove my point.

It's the name of a species of butterfly but it has confusing roots. Most butterflies should be named after classical divinities but the name is not Phanessa, it's Vanessa.

Vanessa is a genus of brush-footed butterflies. Many people are familiar with it, as it has a near-global distribution and includes conspicuous species such as the red admirals (e.g., Red Admiral, Indian Red Admiral, New Zealand Red Admiral), the Kamehameha, and the painted ladies of subgenus Cynthia: Painted Lady, American Painted Lady, Australian Painted Lady, etc. For African Admirals see genus, Antanartia.

The name of the genus may have been taken from the girl's name. Though it has been suggested the name may be a variant of "Phanessa", from an Ancient Greek word for a mystic divinity, this is unlikely. The name of the divinity is actually not "Phanessa" but Phanes. Johan Christian Fabricius, the entomologist who named this genus, normally used the original forms of the names of classical divinities when he created new scientific names.

So, then they say my name was invented recently by Jonathin Swift - Van esther became Vanessa.....yeah, right, Fabricius named the butterfly after Swift's imaginary name...not.

Look at the Etruscan alphabet:

etruscan1.gif

You can find the same chart here with comparable letters underneath.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/etruscan.htm

Now, they write backwards alot - so write my name backwards, the letters as they appear, use the soft swirl S, and all the letters are there, because it's an Etruscan..oops, I mean Greek, no I don't, name...

Will note at that site that F and V are the same letter so I'll use V/F not the Ph sound.

So, you, if you want to do this, will have the 7 letters that make up the word Vanessa all written down with it going assenaF/V

assenav...what's that?

OK, take your paper with the word written down to where you have a mirror and hold it up - what does it say...V/Fanessa.

Not only that but every letter looks like English now, they have turned around.

Fanessa and Vanessa were interchangable names that when spelt backwards and placed in a mirror spell my name.

I'd say the sound V was represented by the back to front F letter, it really would sound V anessa - the Etruscans used V's - MenrVa, Vesta, etc. but we often see them and in the OLB we especially do such as Fasta.

Vanessa would have been an Etruscan name imo.

What it means is Butterfly in Latin.

It's not Greek and it doesn't mean butterfly in Greek.

This is where the confusion comes from with the butterfly.

Fabricius got it right, everyone else got it wrong through looking at it coming from Greek to Latin, it's not.

My favourite of this species is, of course, Vanessa atalanta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_atalanta_(Red_Admiral) :rolleyes:

Edited by The Puzzler

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ks = X

lol

We do put an X when we write kiss

xoxox

PS: I'm not sure if Abe already gave this link but is the original Oera Linda Book to view each page if you missed it. A must for this topic.

http://www.oeralindaboek.nl/boek/index.html

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