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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

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EDIT:

OK, it works (UM was inaccessible for like 90 minutes).

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Van Gorp, the word before - what you call - December is "anno domini" or actually an abbreviation: "anno dni".

But that is my problem, what month is it?? I can't read that month 'hieroglyph'.

And yes, the last sentience is indeed in Dutch, and it says that.... it is a copy of the original, jeesh.

http://www.cartago.nl/img/kla0006_001.jpg

++++

EDIT:

post-18246-0-54876100-1330172935_thumb.j

anno dni m cc xlv. xvm ???

+++++++++++

EDIT:

God, I should have my eyes checked:

post-18246-0-31434600-1330173299_thumb.j

Yes, it is of course December, but I have no idea what comes right after "anno dni m cc xlv. xvm"

Well, anyway, it's December.

But it is a copy of the original, and like I showed you yesterday, another source claims the month is November.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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What I find most significant about it is the number of books (1400!?).

It shows how much must have been lost/ gone.

That there is similarities in names does not surprise me, but it suggests they were part of the same culture.

(In the area where I live there are Okkema's, Halbertsma's etc.)

If you have ever studied a family tree, you'll see the same names coming back over and over again.

(My brother, father, g-father, g-g-father and g-g-g-father (and the latter's father's-brother) all have/ had exactly the same name: "Alewijn". I was named after a g-uncle, who was named after his uncle, who was named after his uncle, who was named after his g-father, who was named after his g-father.)

There's not that many names (now more than in the past).

Also, I don't believe that naming by name-days has ever been a big thing here.

~ ~ ~

I'm busy reading "Het geheim van het Oera-Linda-Boek" by dr. M. de Jong Hzn. (1927).

And I prepare a follow-up (conclusion) of my posts about criticism of religions.

Yes, 1400 books !! This Alfgerdis/Alfgerda family were not poor peasants. Well, at the moment they decided to sell all they had, they of course must have had financial problems.

What is interesting about this Yesse convent is that its people were famous for their waterworks: canals, dikes, sluices and so on. And archeologists are right now busy with a dig at what was left of the convent/monastery. At the end of the 16th century it was abandoned because of the wars and occupations by soldiers/knights.

The name "Alfgerda" or "Alfgerd" is an interesting one: you will only find it in Norway and Iceland.

ALFGERD

http://www.babynology.com/meaning-alfgerd-f49.html

http://www.suggestbabynames.com/meaning_of_norwegian_girlname_alfgerd.html

http://norwegianbabynames.childnamesworld.com/norwegian-girl-baby-names.php?religion=Norwegian&gender=girl

Another woman named "the healer" is Álfgerðr læknir of Droplaugarsona saga:

Another woman doctor (læknir) is mentioned in Droplaugarsona Saga. When Helgi, one of the famous brothers in the saga, was killed in battle along with his brother Thorkell and several other men, his brother Grim was severely wounded and thought to be dead. Their aunt Groa came out to meet those bringing back the dead and wounded, and thought Grim might be still alive. She announced that she and her son would watch over the bodies that night, and while people slept she went to find Alfgerd the doctor, and brought her back with her. The bodies of Helgi and Thorkell were prepared for burial next morning, and it was thought that Grim was laid in the mound with them, but he was taken away secretly by Alfgerd after she had attended to his wounds, to prevent news of his survival reaching his enemies. He spent the winter recovering and then stayed some years with a kinsman in another part of the country, finally returning to slay the man who had killed his brother Helgi.

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/medicine.shtml

Landnámabók- THE BOOK OF THE SETTLEMENT OF ICELAND

Thorgeir first had to wife Gudrid, the daughter of Thorkell the Swart, their sons were Thorkell Flake and Hoskuld, Tjorfi, Kolgrim, Thorstein, and Thorvard, and a daughter, Sigrid. After that he married Alfgerd, the daughter of Arngeir the Eastman or Norwegian; Thorgeir also had for wife Thorkatla, the daughter of Dales-Koll; his sons with these wives were the following: Thorgrim, Thorgils, Ottar, these were b=astard born: Thorgrim and Finn the Dreamwise, his mother was named Lecny, of foreign kindred.

http://www.northvegr.org/sagas%20annd%20epics/miscellaneous/landnamabok/023.html

The Book of Settlements: Landnamabok Door Hermann Pálsson

http://books.google.nl/books?id=jj6cIwMCZqIC&pg=PA142&lpg=PA142&dq=alfgerd&source=bl&ots=stzpGfF1sE&sig=8Xa-TExM9nerCzAnD0YUvYpDUcM&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=n09HT-TVOsOSOuS45egN&ved=0CHcQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=alfgerd&f=false

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Van Gorp, I discovered what that mysterious 'hieroglyph' means:

post-18246-0-54876100-1330172935_thumb.j

post-18246-0-31434600-1330173299_thumb.j

Here:

post-18246-0-56772100-1330175094_thumb.j

It means "kal.", short for 'kalendri'.

http://books.google.nl/books?id=eJgSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1&hl=nl&vq=%22weduwe+van+Alfgerdis+en+hare+zonen+Occo+en+Gergardus+aan+het+convent%22&source=gbs_quotes_r&cad=5#v=onepage&q&f=false

EDIT:

Someone working in the archives did indeed make a mistake:

ogd0105 105 14 nov. 1245 Het bestuur en de inwoners van Groningen verklaren, dat Alfgerdis en haar twee zoons goederen aan het klooster Jesse hebben verkocht.

http://www.cartago.nl/index/ogd/ogd0001.htm

And then read the text in the head of the copy itself, and then what's in the text itself, at the bottom:

http://www.cartago.nl/oorkonde/ogd0105.xml

That is a real blunder, I'd say.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Van Gorp, I discovered what that mysterious 'hieroglyph' means:

post-18246-0-54876100-1330172935_thumb.j

post-18246-0-31434600-1330173299_thumb.j

Here:

post-18246-0-56772100-1330175094_thumb.j

It means "kal.", short for 'kalendri'.

http://books.google.nl/books?id=eJgSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1&hl=nl&vq=%22weduwe+van+Alfgerdis+en+hare+zonen+Occo+en+Gergardus+aan+het+convent%22&source=gbs_quotes_r&cad=5#v=onepage&q&f=false

EDIT:

Someone working in the archives did indeed make a mistake:

ogd0105 105 14 nov. 1245 Het bestuur en de inwoners van Groningen verklaren, dat Alfgerdis en haar twee zoons goederen aan het klooster Jesse hebben verkocht.

http://www.cartago.nl/index/ogd/ogd0001.htm

And then read the text in the head of the copy itself, and then what's in the text itself, at the bottom:

http://www.cartago.nl/oorkonde/ogd0105.xml

That is a real blunder, I'd say.

.

Yo Abe,

Was calculating further.

I really don't want to hassle you, just help :-)

Indeed I think also it is abrevation of Kal. So 18 days to be counted before Kalendas December (1 December)

For these Latin calenders it matters, what a hassle they make of it :-)

As in the Dutch text I posted before, just from internet (the ante or priedi falls away frequently).

So both are right in that sense that Latin date XVIII Kal Dec points to 18 days before 1 December (included) :-)

In attach my calculation: 14 November.

Capture-3.png

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Thanks very much Van Gorp !

So the 'real' date is indeed november 14, 1245, and not because someone 'blundered', lol.

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But now I really want to see the original document for myself.

You have made it crystal-clear to me that a possible error about the date is just waiting around the corner.

And if you check the copy, you will notice it is fkg infested with typos and corrections.

Just imagine this: the guy who copied that 13th century document made a mistake, maybe several mistakes.

I know you believers in the OLB are convinced I am only out to try to prove the OLB is nothing but a bull 19th century fantasy, a Frisian nationalistic fabrication to prove them to be the origin of European, Mediterranean, and Middle Eastern civilization.

But then you are wrong.

I have been accused of having some sort of agenda, or being a 'skeptic just for the hell of it'.

No, no, no... but yep, I do not believe the OLB is what it is supposed to be, but I am willing to post about anything I find, even if it might contradict my previous statements.

And I have not seen anything similar from those who fiercely defend the OLB.

Otharus's latest posts are about religion.

Well, I think the OLB is a new-age Bible for many.

I tell ya: we have been **** beyond compare by those who believed in some ancient "Holy Book", and I am not very pleased to see that happen once again. We had the Jews, we had the Christians, we had the Muslims.

What next??

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Van Gorp, the word before - what you call - December is "anno domini" or actually an abbreviation: "anno dni".

But that is my problem, what month is it?? I can't read that month 'hieroglyph'.

And yes, the last sentience is indeed in Dutch, and it says that.... it is a copy of the original, jeesh.

http://www.cartago.n...kla0006_001.jpg

++++

EDIT:

post-18246-0-54876100-1330172935_thumb.j

anno dni m cc xlv. xvm ???

+++++++++++

EDIT:

God, I should have my eyes checked:

post-18246-0-31434600-1330173299_thumb.j

Yes, it is of course December, but I have no idea what comes right after "anno dni m cc xlv. xvm"

Well, anyway, it's December.

But it is a copy of the original, and like I showed you yesterday, another source claims the month is November.

.

It reads Anno d[omi]ni m[ille] cc [duecento] xlv . xviii k[a]l[endae] decembris = 18 december 1245. It is the usual mediaeval Latin date and has nothing to do with the Roman date and recalculation.

Edited by Knul

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It reads Anno d[omi]ni m[ille] cc [duecento] xlv . xviii k[a]l[endae] (18 december 1245).

Van Gorp already posted an excellent post about how we should interpret the Roman date in that - copied - manuscript.

He is right, I was wrong.

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Well, I think the OLB is a new-age Bible for many.

What makes you think that?

The conclusion of my previous posts (criticism of religions) was going to be that the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions are based on the idolization of books (or texts) that are claimed (by 'priests' of all sorts) to be the 'word of god'.

OLB does not suggest to be anything like that.

It can be inspiring, yes, but someone who would use it like a holy book, has not understood it!

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I tell ya: we have been **** beyond compare by those who believed in some ancient "Holy Book", and I am not very pleased to see that happen once again. We had the Jews, we had the Christians, we had the Muslims.

In this I'm on your side.

I was born and raised to suspect anything religious.

Last year I read a translation of the Quran and concluded that part is poetry, while the other part is war-propaganda.

I like the medieval church in the village where I live and I basically like what they do there nowadays, but some of our current problems have their roots in old propagandistic texts that should be recognised as such.

(not sure if i express my thoughts accurately as i had some beerenburgs, lol)

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What makes you think that?

The conclusion of my previous posts (criticism of religions) was going to be that the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions are based on the idolization of books (or texts) that are claimed (by 'priests' of all sorts) to be the 'word of god'.

OLB does not suggest to be anything like that.

It can be inspiring, yes, but someone who would use it like a holy book, has not understood it!

With 'new-age Bible' I meant to say nothing more than a newly divinely inspired book based on some grand history of some other "chosen people", and this time the Fryans/Frisians.

These "Fryans" are nothing but an alternative to that other 'chosen people', the Jews.

There are - to me - too many hints in the OLB to ignore that idea. I already posted about "Gosa" almost quoting from the Bible.

The one (or those) who fabricated the OLB were out to look better than those.... fkg "GOLA" (="Jews". Just read Van Gorp's post, and you knew what sentiment is behind it all. And to Van Gorp I say: No man, I am not suggesting anything bad. Get that?). They just reversed accepted history.

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... some grand history of some other "chosen people", and this time the Fryans/Frisians.

Chosen by whom?

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In this I'm on your side.

I was born and raised to suspect anything religious.

Last year I read a translation of the Quran and concluded that part is poetry, while the other part is war-propaganda.

I like the medieval church in the village where I live and I basically like what they do there nowadays, but some of our current problems have their roots in old propagandistic texts that should be recognised as such.

(not sure if i express my thoughts accurately as i had some beerenburgs, lol)

Listen, I have NO problems at all with Christians who try to live according to what Jesus told them to do. If these people live according to what they believe in, then I am perfectly happy with that, no problems at all with that.

But you know as well as I do there are not many Christians doing and living according to what Jesus asked them to do.

And I was born and raised by a very Catholic father (from the province of Brabant); he couldn't sleep well if he hadn't visited church on Sundays, but also by a mother who really HATED anything Catholic, lol.

I have been interested in Sufism for decades now. These people are supposed to have a 'secret' knowledge of Islam. No they don't, they USE Islam and the Islam lingo to convey their message of an alternative truth, psychology and reality.

And they are still being killed because of it by those 'pious' Islamic fundamentalists because of their own interpretation of what Mohammad - "pbuh" - taught.

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Van Gorp already posted an excellent post about how we should interpret the Roman date in that - copied - manuscript.

He is right, I was wrong.

No, he was wrong. The date is not Roman, but mediaeval Latin.

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With 'new-age Bible' I meant to say nothing more than a newly divinely inspired book based on some grand history of some other "chosen people", and this time the Fryans/Frisians.

These "Fryans" are nothing but an alternative to that other 'chosen people', the Jews.

There are - to me - too many hints in the OLB to ignore that idea. I already posted about "Gosa" almost quoting from the Bible.

The one (or those) who fabricated the OLB were out to look better than those.... fkg "GOLA" (="Jews". Just read Van Gorp's post, and you knew what sentiment is behind it all. And to Van Gorp I say: No man, I am not suggesting anything bad. Get that?). They just reversed accepted history.

There are many references to the Christian Bible in the OLB, but that does not make it a sacred text.

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Thanks very much Van Gorp !

So the 'real' date is indeed november 14, 1245, and not because someone 'blundered', lol.

No, the real date is December, 18th, 1245.

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No, the real date is December, 18th, 1245.

Then you didn't understand him.

I did.

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Otharus, Knul, Van Gorp, anyone: what can you make of that date? I recognize the year, MCCXLV = 1245

I recognize XVIII = 18.

But what comes last looks like 'Chinese' to me.

One translation says it's December 18:

Acta sunt hec Groninge anno domini MCCXLV, XVIII kalendas decembris.

These are the reports of the public acts of Groningen in the year 1245, 18 December

Another says it's November 14th:

http://books.google....l=nl&sa=X&ei=Y-

I think the last one is wrong concerning the day number, but maybe it is right about the month, November.

Why is that interesting?

Hilde, Hielke, Hielko, Hilko, Hille, Hylko, Hielkje, Hil, Hilda, Hilla, Hilly, Hiltje, Hylke, Ilda (Du.), Elda (Ital.).

Afgeleid van het Germaanse 'hild', met de betekenis 'strijd'. De naam betekent; de strijder, de strijdlustige

Op 17 november is er een feestdag ter ere van Hilda, in de 8ste eeuw abdis van een klooster bij Whitby in Engeland.

(...)

Derived from the German 'hild', meaning 'battle'. The name means 'warrior', 'the militant'.

On November 17th there is a festival in the honor of Hilda, during the 6th century in a convent near Whitby, England.

=====

Hidde, Hiddo, Hidske, Hidda, Hiddeke.

Afgeleid van het Germaanse 'hild', met de betekenis; strijd.

Voornamelijk in Friesland en Groningen voorkomende naam.

(...)

Mainly a common name in Friesland and Groningen

http://www.gerardlen...aam/namenh.html

I already quoted from another site that explains "Hidde" (and not Sandbach's "Hiddo", which is not in the OLB) as a girl's name meaning "brave heroin".

So what I am saying is this: a woman called "Hidde Aldgerda/Aldgerdis" , accompanied by her two sons Occo and Gergardus, sold her property, including 1400 books, to a nearby convent with the name Yesse/Jesse.

A day after her socalled "name-day".

I had never heard of a "name-day" before I met Hungarians and Serbians/Kroats. It is the day of the saint you have been named after. That day is to them as important as the day they were born and they have a party (I know, I was there).

Can you imagine this: a woman, a widow called "Hidde Aldgerda/Algerdis" decided, a day after the celibration of her name-day, to sell her property to some nearby convent. And she went accompanied by her two sons of which one was called "Occo".

You might think that - after reading the OLB - no Frisian was inclined to 'honor' Christian name-days, but I think they just had to. Those times were not like modern times when you can say , "Fk Christmas, I am not interested".

You would have to follow the 'Christian rules', or else be branded as a heretic and face the consequences.

And most often you would simply be killed by hanging, or be stoned to death, or drowned in some swamp.

People knew your first name, and they expected you to celibrate your name-day because some fkg 'saint' happened to have the same name as you had.

If you didn't, your ass was for the pious ones, heh.

.

The date is December 18th, which is not the name date of Hidde, etc., but of Winibald, Gatien, Basiliaan: Vinebaud, Winbald, Wineboud; Gertjan, Gratiaan, Gratien; Bas, Basiel, Basilien

s. http://nl.wikipedia....agen_-_december

Edited by Knul

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There are many references to the Christian Bible in the OLB, but that does not make it a sacred text.

I do know about those references, and I have posted about them many times.

What's been written about "Gosa" in the OLB, or what she's supposed to have said, is like quotes from the Bible.

____

You don't really get any word from what I post, eh?

I will bet there are Germans, Dutch, Scots, Brits, South Africans, Americans, and even Chinese who know what I am hinting at.

But you do not have the faintest clue.

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The date is December 18th, which is not the name date of Hidde, etc., but of Winibald, Gatien, Basiliaan: Vinebaud, Winbald, Wineboud; Gertjan, Gratiaan, Gratien; Bas, Basiel, Basilien

s. http://nl.wikipedia....agen_-_december

Read what Van Gorp posted, ok?

About the interpretation of that date?

I am sure he is right ( I did check it, heh), and I am sure you never even bothered to read his post about that date.

Sure, I believe Van Gorp when he says he can read Latin, I believe he knows how to interpret those dates.

Why should he lie about that?

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I was researching something else but came across the mention that W. Bruce Masse saying c. 2200BC for the impact as well as 3 other dates. Alewyn said he said that but it appeared he had said 2800BC so...

This is what I first was interested in and then noticed the date of 2200BC:

According to Maltese reseacrher Anton Mifsud, a large land bridge between Malta and the nearby island of Filfla cataclysmically collapsed, generating giant waves that flooded the whole archipeligo and brought about the end of Neolithic life on Malta. Traces of major faulting in the submarine Pantelleria Rift, upon which both islands sit, have been dated to 2200BC.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Q_3PDWoAxE0C&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=pantelleria+atlantis&source=bl&ots=g0WUGJ7qdx&sig=LM2kOJkqS7NrsKgmrgts4s9fkk4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WK1JT5eqI_GhiAehi4mLDg&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

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I will bet there are Germans, Dutch, Scots, Brits, South Africans, Americans, and even Chinese who know what I am hinting at.

Let's be more specific, as the theological aspect of the dossier is actually interesting.

Jensma wrote his thesis for the theological faculty, and 3 'suspects' (not IMO) had studied theology: Haverschmidt, Verwijs and Halberstsma.

OLB was known in Germany as 'Himmler's Bible'.

People have suggested it was written to challenge the authority of the Bible, or to parody a 19th C. religious conflict.

So, what in your opinion are the most 'dangerous' fragments of the OLB?

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