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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

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However, I found where he describes how the Frisians may have reached Mexico (silver mines) and Chile (settled a colony there),but I can't understand all of it:

post-18246-0-28736200-1333295119_thumb.j

Mind you, this is supposed to have happened several centuries before Columbus.

And that I got from the South American source I have posted about (a book that used Hamconius as one of its sources).

From what I remember this should have happened somewhere around the 10th or 11th century.

Not much help for the OLB, but in itself - if true - quite stunning.

EDIT:

It may have been the attraction of trade, Christian conviction, or the simple quest, but according to Adam of Bremen, writing about 1070 AD, regular troops of Netherlanders set off from the Zwin and sailed first to Scotland before touching at Iceland, Greenland and ultimately America.

[xxxiii] These seafaring visits include, in their retelling, a fair amount of fantastic happenings (eg, giants, the discovery of gold, fortified cities and the like) which might be interpreted as later additions or a medieval copywriter’s embellishments. Since little archaeological record exists to substantiate these claims, they remain a tantalizing hint of direct expeditions to the New World before Columbus from the Low Countries.[xxxiv]

-

[xxxiii] For Adam of Bremen in modern translation please see Francis J. Tschan, (trans. & ed.), History of the archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen, (New York: Columbia University Press, 2002). Adam of Bremen calls these Netherlanders “Frisians” since at that time Robert of Frisia was Count of Flanders (1071-1093). For the only detailed discussion of Netherlanders sailing for America I am aware of in a modern tongue please see Charles Van den Bergh, “Nederlands Aanspraak op de Ontdekking van Amerika voor Columbus”, in Bijdragen voor Vaderlandsche Geschiednis en Oudheidkunde Verzameld en Uitgegeven door Is. An. Nijhoff, VII (1850), pp.23-33.

[xxxiv] See Martinus Hamconius, writing before 1620, who claims that Netherlanders reached the mines of Mexico and settled Chile in Charles Van den Bergh, “Nederlands Aanspraak", op.cit., pp.30-33.

http://flemishamerican.blogspot.com/2009/06/first-flemings-in-america-part-one.html

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Great posts, folks!

Nice to see this thread evolve again.

Not too much on-topic, but still fun ~

~ ~ ~ the Westfrisian roots of Angelina Jolie.

Angelina Jolie, born 1975 Los Angeles (California)

daughter of

Marcheline Bertrand, born 1950 Riverdale (Illinois)

daughter of

Lois June Gouwens, born 1928 Cook County (Illinois)

daughter of

Royal Gerrit Gouwens, born 1906 (Illinois)

son of

Annie Koedijker, born 1872 Sint Maarten (North-Holland)

daughter of

Grietje Delver, born c.1845 Zijpe (North-Holland)

daughter of

Trijntje Krabman, born c.1816 Sint Maarten (North-Holland)

daughter of

Dirk Krabman, born c.1785 Schagen (Westfriesland)

son of

Floris Krabman & Maartje Bras, Barsingerhorn (Westfriesland)

angelinajolieandmother.jpg

http://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2012/03/mothers.html

Edited by Otharus

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I would like to see her in the role of "Adela":

angelina-jolie.jpg

:wub:

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I would like to see her in the role of "Adela":

angelina-jolie.jpg

:wub:

That's already something we agree full 100%...

:wub:

... I will do auditions for to be the 'Foddik'.

Edited by Otharus

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ANGEL.INA JOL

Yule, Juul, Yol

:ph34r:

Her grandmother's 'oma', 'Antje van Koedyk' was born in 1872 in Sint Maarten (North-Holland), between Enkhuizen and Den Helder.

The year that the OLB was purst fiblished with Dutch translation.

Her parents and family will surely have heard about it and read the discussions in the papers.

(As have my ancestors of that time, they all lived there.)

Edited by Otharus

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ANGEL.INA JOL

Yule, Juul, Yol

:ph34r:

Her grandmother's 'oma', 'Antje van Koedyk' was born in 1872 in Sint Maarten (North-Holland), between Enkhuizen and Den Helder.

Jolie... Jol.

Now I know how you came up with her, lol.

"Koedyk"... Kadik.... another.. uhm.. connection.

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I'm sure I've posted this before, but it won't hurt to repost it:

[xxxiii] For Adam of Bremen in modern translation please see Francis J. Tschan, (trans. & ed.), History of the archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen, (New York: Columbia University Press, 2002). Adam of Bremen calls these Netherlanders “Frisians” since at that time Robert of Frisia was Count of Flanders (1071-1093). For the only detailed discussion of Netherlanders sailing for America I am aware of in a modern tongue please see Charles Van den Bergh, “Nederlands Aanspraak op de Ontdekking van Amerika voor Columbus” (The Dutch claim to the discovery of America before Columbus), in Bijdragen voor Vaderlandsche Geschiedenis en Oudheidkunde Verzameld en Uitgegeven door Is. An. Nijhoff, VII (1850), pp.23-33.

[xxxiv] See Martinus Hamconius, writing before 1620, who claims that Netherlanders reached the mines of Mexico and settled Chile in Charles Van den Bergh, “Nederlands Aanspraak", op.cit., pp.30-33.

http://flemishamerican.blogspot.com/2009/06/first-flemings-in-america-part-one.html

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Leeuwarder Courant : "Frisians speak ugliest Dutch."

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Otharus, I just now had this crazy idea (and that was after my ex came around, and told me a story you would like - she is a native American woman from the Dutch Antiles, an Arawak - about Frisian ancestors. It gets weirder all the time, I tell you).

You want to make a series of YouTube videos about the whole OLB narrative, like you told us.

But why don't you try to contact Paul Verhoeven, and ask him if he is interested in making a movie about the OLB. Then you tell him about the OLB, give him a link to Sandbach's or Ottema's translation and of course a link to this huge thread. The guy is meticulous, and I will bet he will read this whole thread, even if it takes him a week to complete reading it.

You could ask of course, "Why don't you do it yourself, Rob?", but I have no experience in making videos. YOU have.

And hoax/falsification or not, I think it could turn out into a great movie.

They made movies about the Odyssey, the Ilias, Vikings, "The 13th Warrior", and so on. The text of the OLB could be just as great a script for a movie as any ancient Greek manuscript had to offer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Verhoeven

What I think I know about Verhoeven is that he loves to make movies about controversial books and ideas.

Try it. Your command of English is better than mine.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Otharus, I just now had this crazy idea (and that was after my ex came around, and told me a story you would like - she is a native American woman from the Dutch Antiles, an Arawak - about Frisian ancestors. It gets weirder all the time, I tell you).

You want to make a series of YouTube videos about the whole OLB narrative, like you told us.

But why don't you try to contact Paul Verhoeven, and ask him if he is interested in making a movie about the OLB. Then you tell him about the OLB, give him a link to Sandbach's or Ottema's translation and of course a link to this huge thread. The guy is meticulous, and I will bet he will read this whole thread, even if it takes him a week to complete reading it.

You could ask of course, "Why don't you do it yourself, Rob?", but I have no experience in making videos. YOU have.

And hoax/falsification or not, I think it could turn out into a great movie.

They made movies about the Odyssey, the Ilias, Vikings, "The 13th Warrior", and so on. The text of the OLB could be just as great a script for a movie as any ancient Greek manuscript had to offer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Verhoeven

What I think I know about Verhoeven is that he loves to make movies about controversial books and ideas.

Try it. Your command of English is better than mine.

I agree to all.

And he has a thing with heroines...

https://vimeo.com/2791818

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Leeuwarder Courant : "Frisians speak ugliest Dutch."

I think the worst Dutch dialect is spoken in the province of Drenthe.

They have that 'nasal' kind of accent I do not like that much, to be honest.

But who am I to complain: I once talked with a Canadian woman from my own site. She said I had a "Swedish" accent. Damn, that accent is even worse. Another woman from my site said I sounded like Leo Beenhakker, the guy who was once the football trainer of the Trinidad-Tubago soccer team.

.

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I agree to all.

And he has a thing with heroines...

https://vimeo.com/2791818

That was a first tribute to my hero.

Here's a second.

He most definately has a thing with alternative (Bible and Jesus) history.

Member of the Jesus Seminar.

Edited by Otharus

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I agree to all.

And he has a thing with heroines...

https://vimeo.com/2791818

I watched that video...

He loves assertive, aggresive, and maybe even 'dominating' women.

He would love the OLB, lol.

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I watched that video...

He loves assertive, aggresive, and maybe even 'dominating' women.

He would love the OLB, lol.

Yes he does.

As will the international audience.

Edited by Otharus

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The last for tonight:

"Restricted - best & greatest Dutch film" TURKS FRUIT, by Paul Verhoeven.

https://vimeo.com/2779199

With a pic of me at the and.

That's only fair, since I already posted photo's of my respected fellow researchers, Jensma and Knul (who follows?).

Edited by Otharus

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To my own surprise, I am the first (as far as I know) who interprets Thjanja as Diana.

Checked: Ottema (1876), Sandbach (1876), Wirth (1933), Jensma (2006), de Heer (2008), Raubenheimer (2011), Knul (2012)

(can't find the link to Overwijn's version)

Overwijn does not mention Diana either.s. http://rodinbook.nl/overwijn.html

Edited by Knul

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1. Richthofen: "flet" = huis; 'flet' in German dialect ('Platduits') is the place where the beds are.

2. The manuscript has "LOGHA", not "LONGHA". Logha = flame ('tongue' of fire)

Logha is Oldfrisian loga = flame s. Koebler.

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Overwijn does not mention Diana either.s. http://rodinbook.nl/overwijn.html

The link is dead, but here's a scan of the page of Overwijn's book:

post-18246-0-86291200-1333452794_thumb.j

According to Overwijn, the name Thjanja comes from "Tanna" or "Tanneke" (from a Dutch kid's rhyme about a witch) and means 'to flare up', and has no connection with 'to serve'.

He also says that the last -n- in Tanna is a nasal -ñ- in Old Frisian, so Tanna would become Tanja (or Tania in English).

But it must be noted that Overwijn used a lot of Celtic to explain words in the OLB (this is what he also said: Celtic: tana = flame / tanañ = to light a fire, to set alight )

+++

EDIT:

Also see my posts 10893 & 10894 here:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=10890

EDIT:

Menno, this is the corrcet link to your page with Overwijn's text:

http://rodinbook.nl/olbtekstoverwijn.html

oera21.jpg

.

Edited by Abramelin

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The link is dead, but here's a scan of the page of Overwijn's book:

post-18246-0-86291200-1333452794_thumb.j

According to Overwijn, the name Thjanja comes from "Tanna" or "Tanneke" (from a Dutch kid's rhyme about a witch) and means 'to flare up', and has no connection with 'to serve'.

He also says that the last -n- in Tanna is a nasal -ñ- in Old Frisian, so Tanna would become Tanja (or Tania in English).

But it must be noted that Overwijn used a lot of Celtic to explain words in the OLB (this is what he also said: Celtic: tana = flame / tanañ = to light a fire, to set alight )

+++

EDIT:

Also see my posts 10893 & 10894 here:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=10890

EDIT:

Menno, this is the corrcet link to your page with Overwijn's text:

http://rodinbook.nl/olbtekstoverwijn.html

oera21.jpg

.

Yes, I changed it a bit.

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Menno, on your page about Overwijn's book, http://rodinbook.nl/olbtekstoverwijn.html , I see this line:

Noordwest-Europa voor de Kimbrische Vloed in ca. 6250 v.Chr.

(North West Europe before the Cimbrian Flood of around 6250 BC)

Maybe you'd like to add the picture that comes with that line:

Aldland_Doggerland_6250BC.jpg

As you will remember I have posted a couple of scans from Overwijn's book, like that one of the citadel on Texland and a couple of pages on the Menapian language.

I am not sure if you own the book yourself, but in case you don't I can post other scans of images from his book you might want to use.

Edited by Abramelin

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I hope you will not laugh out too loud and that you will pardon my getting a bit philosophical, but this is how I see this epitaph: “Do not pass in haste, for here lies Adela”

If the OLB is real, we owe our glimpse into this forgotten history and people to this lady. The Oera Linda Book is her legacy. These words then speak directly to us; more than 2500 years later!

One can almost interpret them to mean:

“Do not deny her life but take time to reflect on what Adela ovira Linda gave to the world.”

Just imagine anyone of us leaving a legacy that will still be of significance 2500 years hence, say, in the year 4500 AD!

Almost two months after Alewyn posted this, I'd like to add that I still like it.

Here in the Netherlands, april is the month of philosophy.

So let's get philosophical about the OLB.

Fact, fiction, or a bit of both ~ what can we learn from it?

What would be relevant to reflect on in our present time?

Edited by Otharus

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Almost two months after Alewyn posted this, I'd like to add that I still like it.

Here in the Netherlands, april is the month of philosphy.

So let's get philosophical about the OLB.

Fact, fiction, or a bit of both ~ what can we learn from it?

What would be relevant to reflect on in our present time?

And the month starts with April Fool's Day.

Sorry, I just had to, lol.

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Another map from Overwijn's book about the OLB people might be interested in:

(Click on the thumbnail, and when the larger pic opens, click again on it; it's quite huge)

th_OVERWIJN-map.jpg

Another one:

th_OVERWIJN-map2.jpg

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Apologies to those who can't read Dutch, but this (untranslatable) poem by François Haverschmidt (1852, written under pseudonym 'Piet Paaltjens') just begs to be added to this thread. Note the highlighted (by me) fragment.

(Source: http://cf.hum.uva.nl/dsp/ljc/paaltjens/fries.html )

De Friesche poëet

I

De Harlinger stoomboot schommelt

Over de Zuiderzee

Van Stavoren naar Enkhuizen.

Een dichter schommelt mee.

Kwijnend rust op de verschansing

De zangrige elleboog.

Glazig staart naar Friesland

Het bleekblauw poëtenoog.

Soms is 't of een klaaglied

De schampre lippen ontstijgt.

De hofmeester denkt, dat mijnheer dan

Een aanval van zeeziekte krijgt.

Och, de hofmeester is niet onmooglijk

Een mensch met een edel hart,

Maar, al meent hij het goed, hij heeft geen

Verstand van dichterssmart.

En ik denk, dat is maar goed ook;

Want kende de man die pijn,

Hoe zou hij nog voor de betrekking

Van hofmeester bruikbaar zijn? -

"Vaarwel!" ruischt het van de verschansing

Naar het langzaam wegblauwend strand,

"Vaarwel! mijn diepverbasterd,

En toch mijn vaderland!

Wat al waatren rolden grimmig

Uw vernederde terpen voorbij,

Sinds in eigen taal uw kindren

Konden zeggen "wij, Friezen, zijn vrij!"

Naar ploeg en koestal vluchtte

Uw taal, eenmaal Holland's schrik,

Om uw steden te zien verzinken

In allerlei vreemde kwik.

Uw adel ligt op sterven;

Dat prachtig, koppig ras,

Dat, om voor een koning te buigen,

Te stijf eens van knieën was.

En begraven zijn ze op een paar na

Uw dochters van edel bloed

Met het oorijzer om den schedel

En de schaatsen onder den voet.

Friesche jonkers solliciteeren

Om een postjen als ambtenaar

En nemen zich tot vrouwen

Friezinnen - met los haar!"

Een ontzaglijk-hoonende tandknars

Bezegelt het slotakkoord,

En "help!" gilt de man aan het stuurrad,

"Een passagier overboord!"

Te laat! de poëet is verdwenen

In de diepte van 't dansend meer.

Slechts zijn pet vindt men acht dagen later

Op de kust van Wieringen weer.

II

In overoude tijden,

Toen men nog geen stoomboten had,

Lag er halfweg tusschen Enkhuizen

En Staavren een bloeiende stad.

Haar koene schippers brachten

Haar schatten van heinde en veer,

En onder haar kooplui telde

Zij meer dan één millionair.

Maar - wat ziet men gebeuren -

't Geld maakte haar kooplieden grootsch.

Toen streken de elementen

Over haar het vonnis des doods.

Op zeekren morgen kon men

In de Leeuwarder krant zien staan,

Hoe het trotsche Oud-Staavren eensklaps

In de Zuiderzee was vergaan.

Sinds verliepen er honderden jaren;

En men hield het er algemeen voor,

De bodem der zee droeg langer

Van Oud-Staavren geen enkel spoor.

Slechts vond men er nog op Schokland,

Die zwoeren bij kris en bij kras,

Dat er onder in de diepte

Nog heel wat over was.

Een oude visscher beweerde:

Hij was dikwijls door klokgelui,

Dat uit de zee opkwam, gewaarschuwd

voor een naderende onweersbui.

De torenklok van Oud-Staavren

Die moest dat hebben gedaan.

Had zijn vader niet eens het uurwerk

In dien toren halfacht horen slaan?

III

De dichter is verdwenen

In de diepte van 't dansende meer.

Hij zinkt als een steen. En Eindlijk

Komt hij in Oud-Stavoren neer.

Want, ja, wat die goede Schokkers

In hun eenvoud steeds hebben beweerd,

Dat is waar: de verdronken koopstad

Bestaat nog ongedeerd.

Haar muren zijn nog stevig;

Haar torens zijn nog hoog;

Slechts is er alles drijfnat,

Wat er eenmaal als kurk was zoo droog.

En op haar pleinen en straten,

Van menschengedruis een vol,

Daar zwemmen nu stilzwijgend

Tarbot en schelvisch en schol.

In haar achterbuurten leeft het

van krab en slak en garnaal,

En kabeljauw vult met bruinvisch

Op het raadhuis de groote zaal. -

Tot allerlei bochten zich wringend

En van benauwdheid loodblauw

Zinkt de dichter-drenkeling neder

Op de stoep van een deftig gebouw.

Stuiptrekkend beweegt hij den klopper.

O wonder! de poortdeur wijkt,

En de zanger drijft den gang in.

Maar is daar niet, of hij bezwijkt.

IV

Hoelang de gezonken poëet wel

Bewustloos gelegen heeft,

Dat zou ik niet kunnen zeggen.

Genoeg, - de man herleeft.

Hij heft de gevoelvolle blikken,

Maar twijfelt schier aan hun trouw;

Vlak toch tegenover zich ziet hij

Een wonderschone vrouw.

Haar gitzwarte lokken golven

Langs een voorhoofd van elpenbeen

Over leliewitte schouders

En een sneeuwblanken boezem heen.

Haar wenkbrauwen buigen zich prachtig

Boven oogen van lazuur,

Beschaduwd door zware wimpers

En tintlend van prettig vuur.

Een neusje, Venus waardig,

Scheidt haar wangen, wier zachte gloed

De rozen beschaamt, maar voor 't blosje

Van haar lipjes nog tanen moet.

Ivoren tandjes glinstren,

Zoo vaak haar mondje lacht;

En de mollige kin bergt een kuiltje,

Dat stil naar een kusje smacht.

V

De dichter begrijpt er niets van;

Maar eindelijk waagt hij het toch

De vreemde schoone te vragen:

"Waar ben ik?" en "leef ik nog?"

En als kristal klinkt haar antwoord:

"Mijn lieve landgenoot,

Gij zit hier in Oud-Staavren,

En ge zijt volstrekt niet dood.

Gelukkig voor u bewoon ik

Hier een waterdicht lokaal,

Waar ik versche lucht kan krijgen

Door een onderzeesch kanaal.

Nog even bijtijds ontdekte ik,

Hoe gij spartelde op de stoep ....

Doch al praatjes genoeg! Gij hebt honger,

Eet dus eerst een dit bordje soep.

Dat zal u goeddoen, mijn jongen!

Ik zelf heb ze klaargemaakt.

En drink er dit glas Pommies bij;

Die weet ik dat lekker smaakt.

Ga u daarna eens goed verdrogen,

En - kom dan in mijn arm;

Dan, voor den drommel, kus ik

U nog eens ouderwets warm!"

VI

"Vergeef mij," huivert de dichter,

"'t Is onbescheiden misschien,

Maar mag ik ook vragen, wat dame

de eer heb vóór mij te zien?" -

En de schoone glimlacht: "Wel zeker!

- maar eet ondertusschen voort, -

Ik ben dat weeuwtje van Staavren,

Daar ge mooglijk wel van hebt gehoord;

Die een lading Dantziger tarwe

Aan stuurboord in zee werpen liet ....

Maar, man, waar wordt ge zoo bleek van?

Dat hindert u, hoop ik, toch niet?"

"Dat geval met die Dantziger tarwe,

Mevrouw, is te lang geleên,

Om mij nu nog te kunnen hindren,

Al was het dan ook - gemeen.

Maar wat mij van lust om te eten

En om u te kussen berooft,

Is, dat gij, beboren Friezinne,

Geen oorijzer draagt om uw hoofd.

Maar wat mij zóó vreeslijk ergert,

Dat de wang er mij van verbleekt

Is, dat ook het weeuwtje van Staavren

Gebroken-Hollandsch spreekt.

Verbasterd is mijn Friesland

Tot op de bodem der zee.

Ik heb genoeg van het leven.

Drink zelf uw flesch Pommies."

Zoo galmt de rampzalige dichter

En vliegt de voordeur uit.

Nog een korte strijd, - en de haaien

Verdelen hun zangrigen buit.

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Found two treasures:

Bediedinge van de tot noch toe onbekende afgodinne Nehalennia

(Service of the untill-now-unknown goddess/ idol Nehalennia)

by Marcus Zuerius Boxhorn (1647)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=-F5bAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=nl#v=onepage&q&f=false

and

Taalkundige aanmerkingen op eenige Oud-Friesche spreekwoorden

(Linguistic notes to some Old-frisian proverbs)

by Jacob Henrik Hoeufft (1812)

http://books.google.nl/books?id=mQAGAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=nl#v=onepage&q&f=false

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