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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

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The Eem, maybe it's the Emude.

Situated in this red area.

250px-Utrecht_in_the_Netherlands.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eem

Like I said, that's not East Flyland.

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From a former post of mine:

Emden came into existence around 800 AD as a trade settlement (Amuthon) on an artificial mound near the river Ems in the 12th century and was the capital of the East Frisian county Eemsgo.

So Emden came into existence long after the OLB Wodin lived. So where he hell should we look for Lumka-makia? All logic points to some place near the mouth of the river Ee (hence, "Ê-mude") in East Flyland.

From the OLB:

Anda Alder-gâmude thêr reste en alde sêkaening. Sterik was sin nôme aend tha hrop vr sina dêda was grât. Thisse alde rob hêde thrê nêva; Wodin thene aldeste hêmde to Lumka-mâkja bi thêre Ê-mude to Ast-flyland by sin eldrum t-us. Ênes was er hêrman wêst. Tünis aend Inka wêron sêkaemper aend just nw bi hjara faederja anda Aldergâ-mude t-vs. As tha jonga kaempar nw bi ekkôrum kêmon, kêron hja Wodin to hjara hêrman jefta kaening ut, aend tha sêkaempar kêron Tünis to-ra sêkaening aend Inka to hjara skelte bî thêr nacht. Tha stjurar gvngon thâ nêi tha Dênnemarka fâra, thêr nâmon hja Wodin mith sin wigandlika landwêr in.

At Aldergamude there lived an old sea-king whose name was Sterik, and whose deeds were famous. This old fellow had three nephews. Wodin, the eldest, lived at Lumkamakia, near the Eemude, in Oostflyland, with his parents. He had once commanded troops. Tünis and Inka were naval warriors, and were just then staying with their father at Aldergamude. When the young warriors had assembled together, they chose Wodin to be their leader or king, and the naval force chose Tünis for their sea-king and Inka for their admiral. The navy then sailed to Denmark, where they took on board Wodin [sandbach: "and his valiant host"] with his brave home guard.

The OLB gives us two places: "near the Eemude" and Denmark...

But what was Odin/Wodin/Wodan's birthplace, according to tradition?

HEATHEN-GRAVEYARD ON DANISH ISLAND. FYN, WODEN´S PROBABLE BIRTHPLACE

Island of Fyn, probable birthplace

of ancient germanic king, Wóden,

who became honored and made into

the god Wóden (Odin)

http://www.proto-ger...island-fyn.html

So in 6th century Sweden, he would have been called *WóþinaR. He was a real man, probably a great warrior-king, later deified. Born c. 100 AD on the modern Danish island of Fyn. His birthplace still bears his name, the modern city of Odense, Óðinsvé in Icelandic and in proto-Northwest Germanic, *Wóðinaswáih or Wodens-hallow. (the EastGmc Goths, Vandals had left 300 years prior, hence there is NEVER any mention of any character, hero, king, god called anything similar to *Wóðinaz, *Wódanaz, Óðinn, Oden, Woden, Wuotan. Also the word Æsir is from PGmc ansiwiz, the singular is ansuz. Norse and Ingvaeonic (Anglo-Saxon, Frisian, etc) lost nasals, n & m before s or z. In Gothic, OHG the word ans meant a god, specifically, not the Biblical God.

http://www.theaprici...ad.php?p=882988

http://www.proto-ger...real-story.html

Is the Danish island of Fyn in East Flyland? I don't think it is.

Is there a river on or near Fyn called "Ee"? I couldn't find it.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Like I said, that's not East Flyland.

OK, are you placing East Flyland as being in the Wadden Islands?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlieland

The Vlie or Vliestroom is the seaway between the Dutch islands of Vlieland, to its southwest, and Terschelling, to its northeast. The Vlie was the estuary of the river IJssel in medieval times. In 1666 the English Admiral Robert Holmes burnt a Dutch merchant fleet of 130 ships (Holmes's Bonfire), that had taken refuge in the Vlie, mistakenly supposing the English could never find their way through the treacherous shoals, so typical for the coastal waters there. Today it's still possible to reach the port of Harlingen by way of the Vlie.

It is often supposed that the old Roman name for the lake that later would become the Zuiderzee: Lacus Flevo, is etymologically related to the name "Vlie" and that perhaps Vlie was once the name of the entire lake and the big river that flowed out of it. In the 13th century large floods widened the estuary and destroyed much of the peat land behind, creating a continuous area of sand and mudflats connecting the sea to the enlarged inland lake and obscuring the flow of the river. When the Afsluitdijk was created, the old streambed from the river to the sea was obstructed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlie

A river once flowed out to Vlieland (Flyland).

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Like I said, that's not East Flyland.

You were going on about the Emden, but that's not this same river Eem, as far as I can see.

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OK, are you placing East Flyland as being in the Wadden Islands?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlieland

The Vlie or Vliestroom is the seaway between the Dutch islands of Vlieland, to its southwest, and Terschelling, to its northeast. The Vlie was the estuary of the river IJssel in medieval times. In 1666 the English Admiral Robert Holmes burnt a Dutch merchant fleet of 130 ships (Holmes's Bonfire), that had taken refuge in the Vlie, mistakenly supposing the English could never find their way through the treacherous shoals, so typical for the coastal waters there. Today it's still possible to reach the port of Harlingen by way of the Vlie.

It is often supposed that the old Roman name for the lake that later would become the Zuiderzee: Lacus Flevo, is etymologically related to the name "Vlie" and that perhaps Vlie was once the name of the entire lake and the big river that flowed out of it. In the 13th century large floods widened the estuary and destroyed much of the peat land behind, creating a continuous area of sand and mudflats connecting the sea to the enlarged inland lake and obscuring the flow of the river. When the Afsluitdijk was created, the old streambed from the river to the sea was obstructed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlie

A river once flowed out to Vlieland (Flyland).

Vlieland is indeed a Wadden Island, now. But once it was connected to the province of Friesland through a large stretch of land.

I think the OLB West Flyland was west of the Vlie/Fly river, and East Flyland was east of that river. But how far to the east reached East Flyland?

Just reread these two lines from the OLB:

Wodin, the eldest, lived at Lumkamakia, near the Eemude, in East-flyland, with his parents.

The navy then sailed to Denmark, where they took on board Wodin with his brave home guard.

Does this suggest Lumkamakia was located in Denmark?

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You were going on about the Emden, but that's not this same river Eem, as far as I can see.

The name in the OLB is "E-mude". And so many think it was what we now call Emden, which lies at the river Ems.

The oldest name for Emden was "Amuthon". Then I googled that name, and the city of "Muiden" showed up, a city not located anywhere near what must have been East Flyland.

And then you showed it again (or a map of the province Muiden is located), and that's why I said again that it wasn't in East Flyland.

Maybe we should forget about the river Ems and Emden altogether, and try to find something in Denmark.

At least that's where traditon says Wodan/Odin was born (Odense, Fyn island).

.

Edited by Abramelin

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The name in the OLB is "E-mude". And so many think it was what we now call Emden, which lies at the river Ems.

The oldest name for Emden was "Amuthon". Then I googled that name, and the city of "Muiden" showed up, a city not located anywhere near what must have been East Flyland.

And then you showed it again (or a map of the province Muiden is located), and that's why I said again that it wasn't in East Flyland.

Maybe we should forget about the river Ems and Emden altogether, and try to find something in Denmark.

At least that's where traditon says Wodan/Odin was born (Odense, Fyn island).

.

OK, but to clarify, the river Ems/Emden is nowhere near this river Eems in Netherlands. Neither are in East Flyland, if that is referring to the Wadden Sea island Vlie area.

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Vlieland is indeed a Wadden Island, now. But once it was connected to the province of Friesland through a large stretch of land.

I think the OLB West Flyland was west of the Vlie/Fly river, and East Flyland was east of that river. But how far to the east reached East Flyland?

Just reread these two lines from the OLB:

Wodin, the eldest, lived at Lumkamakia, near the Eemude, in East-flyland, with his parents.

The navy then sailed to Denmark, where they took on board Wodin with his brave home guard.

Does this suggest Lumkamakia was located in Denmark?

I think it depends on where the East Flyland is that is referred to in the OLB - maybe it is different - Flevoland area?

Also, Wodin may have been in Denmark working, sailing or whatever, but actually lived in Lumkamakia in East Flyland.

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Flyland might have been the whole large lake of the now Zuiderzee, so East Flyland might have reached right into Frisia/Netherlands...?

It is often supposed that the old Roman name for the lake that later would become the Zuiderzee: Lacus Flevo, is etymologically related to the name "Vlie" and that perhaps Vlie was once the name of the entire lake and the big river that flowed out of it.

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Utrecht is an old place...

Although there is some evidence of earlier inhabitation in the region of Utrecht, dating back to the Stone Age (app. 2200 BCE) and settling in the Bronze Age (app. 1800–800 BCE)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utrecht_(city)

Right near the Eemmeer, the Eems and Flevoland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eemmeer

It depends on where this East Flyland was once.

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What does anyone think the FLY in Flyland means? Why is the area named Flyland? Fly in Frisian? Maybe flowland, like flowing water, river, lake land..?

Dutch apparently is: Du. vloeien "to flow," - could this be a variation of Vlie - Fly as in Flowland - a stream land?

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=flow

Edited by The Puzzler

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OK, but to clarify, the river Ems/Emden is nowhere near this river Eems in Netherlands. Neither are in East Flyland, if that is referring to the Wadden Sea island Vlie area.

Really??

The Ems (German: Ems; Dutch: Eems) is a river in northwestern Germany and the northeastern Netherlands. It runs through the states of North Rhine-Westphalia and Lower Saxony, and discharges into the Wadden Sea. Its total length is 371 km. The state border between the Lower Saxon area of East Friesland (Germany) and the province of Groningen (Netherlands), whose exact course is the subject of a border dispute between Germany and the Netherlands, runs through the Ems estuary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ems_(river)

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What does anyone think the FLY in Flyland means? Why is the area named Flyland? Fly in Frisian? Maybe flowland, like flowing water, river, lake land..?

Dutch apparently is: Du. vloeien "to flow," - could this be a variation of Vlie - Fly as in Flowland - a stream land?

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=flow

Apparently Flyland is named after the land where the river Fly/Vlie/Fleho ran through, like the river Rhine runs to the German Rhineland.

You would say in English: 'a running river". We would say (in old fashioned Dutch) "een vliedende rivier". We still have many streams here that are called "Vliet".

In English you have "to flee":

flee

O.E. fleon "take flight, fly from, avoid, escape" (contracted class II strong verb; past tense fleah, pp. flogen), from P.Gmc. *thleukhanan (cf. O.H.G. fliohan, O.N. flöja, O.Fris. flia, Du. vlieden, Ger. fliehen, Goth. þliuhan "to flee"), of unknown origin. Not found outside Germanic. Weak pt./pp. fled emerged M.E., under influence of Scandinavian. O.E. had a trans. form, geflieman "put to flight," which came in handy in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

But the Dutch word 'vlieden' also means, 'to escape', 'to run away', or 'to run fast'.

I assume the Fleho/Fly/Vlie was a fast running river, and it's source was the Flevo Lake which already existed in Roman times.

So Flyland is not the land that was once the bottom of the Zuiderzee/IJsselmeer, but the land north of that lake.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Utrecht is an old place...

Although there is some evidence of earlier inhabitation in the region of Utrecht, dating back to the Stone Age (app. 2200 BCE) and settling in the Bronze Age (app. 1800–800 BCE)

http://en.wikipedia....i/Utrecht_(city)

Right near the Eemmeer, the Eems and Flevoland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eemmeer

It depends on where this East Flyland was once.

Wrong. The name of the river is EEM, not EEMS.

And the EEMMEER is an artifical lake.

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Wrong. The name of the river is EEM, not EEMS.

And the EEMMEER is an artifical lake.

Yeah, I'm confused, all these Ems and Eem, Eems etc.

But this is the one I mean: The Eem (formerly the Amer) is a river in the north of the Utrecht Province in the Netherlands with a length of approximately 18 kilometres (11 mi).

The question is as you said - how far East did East Flyland go?

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Yeah, I'm confused, all these Ems and Eem, Eems etc.

But this is the one I mean: The Eem (formerly the Amer) is a river in the north of the Utrecht Province in the Netherlands with a length of approximately 18 kilometres (11 mi).

The question is as you said - how far East did East Flyland go?

Yes, how far east, not how far south. Most probably the southern border of Flyland was somewhere close to the present "Afsluitdijk".

Maybe better: between Medemblik and Stavoren.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Apparently Flyland is named after the land where the river Fly/Vlie/Fleho ran through, like the river Rhine runs to the German Rhineland.

You would say in English: 'a running river". We would say (in old fashioned Dutch) "een vliedende rivier". We still have many streams here that are called "Vliet".

In English you have "to flee":

flee

O.E. fleon "take flight, fly from, avoid, escape" (contracted class II strong verb; past tense fleah, pp. flogen), from P.Gmc. *thleukhanan (cf. O.H.G. fliohan, O.N. flöja, O.Fris. flia, Du. vlieden, Ger. fliehen, Goth. þliuhan "to flee"), of unknown origin. Not found outside Germanic. Weak pt./pp. fled emerged M.E., under influence of Scandinavian. O.E. had a trans. form, geflieman "put to flight," which came in handy in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

But the Dutch word 'vlieden' also means, 'to escape', 'to run away', or 'to run fast'.

I assume the Fleho/Fly/Vlie was a fast running river, and it's source was the Flevo Lake which already existed in Roman times.

So Flyland is not the land that was once the bottom of the Zuiderzee/IJsselmeer, but the land north of that lake.

.

Righto. To fly is really to flee - fight or flight - maybe because it's where the water flowed out - flee'd. flowed out, escaped from.

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English "BAD" <== Fryan "BALD" ==> Dutch "BAL(D)"

Most of this post is in the original language.

Apologies for those who can't read it.

~ ~ ~

Etymologicum Teutonicae Linguae (1599) ~ Cornelis Kiliaan (1528-1607)

balofbaldKiliaan.jpg

Bal. vetus holl. Malus, inutilis.

bal-daed. vetus. Malefactum, maleficium.

bal-daedigh. vetus holl fland. J. boos. Malus, maleficus.

bal-daedigh. rectius bald-daedigh. Audax.

Bald. vetus J. boude. Audax.

bald-daedigh. Audax, temerarius, praeceps.

Note:

'Vetus' means that even in 1599 the terms were considered oldfashioned.

'Audax' (Latin) can have a positive (1) as well as a negative (2) meaning:

1) bold, daring, audacious

2) reckless, brutal, rash

~ ~ ~

Pieter Hooft (1581-1647)

"Ha! dat zoo maghtigh een' meenighte (men maakt'er onlanx tweehondertduizent mannen af) smaak hebbende van 't bloedt en den buit, met heillooze Godvergeetenheit en helsche raazerye bezeeten, verwoedt door 't wroeghen haars gewissen, en 't verwachten der weederwraak, in deeze slaap, (als 't zoo heeten moet) yet anders dan versche vloekverwantschappen, balddaadt en landt bederf droomen zoude, zal my niemandt diets maaken." ~ Nederlandsche Historien p.153 (1642-1647)

"De Hartogh, ongewoon zoodaane ranken te dulden, vond nochtans niet naaders, dan hun eenigh geldt toe te schikken; met toezeg van voldoening, en vergiffenis der balddaadigheit." ~ Idem p.216

"Maar hy, wel darrende bestaan zyn' Majesteit te verkloeken, en de zelve eens voor al van haaren toeleg te versteeken, vond middel om zich van daar t'ontsteelen; ging tot Alva een' pleghtigh huwelyk, met zyn' nichte, dochter van Don Garsia de Toledo, voltrekken; en keerde daarnaa in zyn' gevankenis. Welke balddaadt te hoove oovergebraght zynde, en dat zy door aanraaden van zynen vaader gepleeght was; bande de Koning den Hartogh zelf in Uzeda, en hield hem daar, tot dat het oorlogh van Portugal opquam." ~ Idem p.342

"D'Ommelanders toonden zich gesmydigh; de Groningers gansch onrekkelyk: der wyze, dat de gezanten, naa 't spillen aller reedenen, tot het uyterst van hunnen last koomen moesten, en hun te verstaan gaaven, dat, 't en waar zy zich voeghden, de gemelde Staaten doen zouden 't geen zy noode deeden. 'T welk echter geen' vrucht, dan groote verbittering, baarde. Vorders bleef het tot Gent by den verhaalden oploop niet; maar de beroerte dier stadt deed heel Vlaandre schokken; mits d'aanstichters, geprikkelt +van 't gewisse zulk eener balddaadt, veyligheit in 't getal zochten, en de gebuursteeden ook aan hunne koorde te kryghen." ~ Idem p.547

"Hiermeede gaan zy af, lichten de sleutels der kerke van den Koster, en preeken daar noch voor middagh. Deezer maate was 't, dat alstoen de bandt der eenigheit kraakte en kracht leed, door de balddaad en reukeloosheit der geenen, die, geblinddoekt van eyghe liefde en goeddunkenheit, eer lange, 't gansche Landt, en zich zelve in den uitersten last braghten." ~ Idem p.589

"Ende naa 't raamen van zeekren voet op 't stuk van Ruiskeveldt, tot behaaghen der gemaghtighden, als de regeerders meinden dat de zaamening te scheiden hadde, beginnen straatsteenen en geweer te wanken, met schreeuwen, dat deez de tydt was om voor 't geloof te vechten, en dat zy, wel zeeven teeghens een', nu zien wilden wie hen dwingen zouw. Onder andre balddaadigheden, werd den Amptman een' byl naa 't hooft geworpen. En 't stond'er geschooren om op een' grouwzaame bloedtstorting uit te koomen; mits de bezettelingen en Onroomsche poorters ook toeliepen, brandende om in den hoop te slaan." ~ Idem p.791

"Een' andren zwaay naamen de dingen tot Gent; daar Jan van Imbyze, hebbende 't zelfste voorneemen als de Prins van Chimay, dan 't zelfste ontzigh niet, nocht ook de stoffe eeven leenigh om ze naa zynen zin te kneeden, nochtans met geen' gelyke behendigheit te werke ging; maar in 't brouwen van verraadt, door ooverdwaalsche balddaadt en zyn' eighe reukeloosheit, verraaden werd." ~ Idem p.895

"Want het krysvolk houdende bezetting in die oorden, dreef, dat al de ingezeetenen, hier door, ten zwaarde ende vuure waaren oovergegeeven; zulx de soldaat met hun, naar zyn welbehaaghen, moght omspringen. Waar op bystere balddaadt, ooverlast, en kneeveling volghde, tot zwaare steurnis der Ridderschap en steeden van Ooveryssel, die, derhalven, hunne gemaghtighden, aan den Raadt van Staate ter oostzyde der Maaze, schikten, om te vertoonen dat zoodaanigh een besluit, en 't geene daar uit sproot, onchristelyk was; en te verzoeken, dat men van 't aangevangen werk afliete." ~ Idem p.949

Note: in earlier works (1626, 1627, 1635), Hooft spelled the word with one D.

~ ~ ~

Jacobus Kok (?-1788)

"Dit staal eener zo verregaande balddaadigheid ging gepaard met een gerugt, dat deeze Grafplaats geheel zou vernield worden; dat, op den volgenden avond, eene bende Graauws, ten getale van driehonderd, ter voltooijing dier Grafschennisse, zou opdaagen." ~ Bijvoegzels op het Vaderlandsch Woordenboek (1748)

~ ~ ~

"Reizen van Jonas Hanway" (1755), vertaling uit het Engels door Izaak & Johannes Enschede en Jan Bosch, stadsdrukkers resp. boekverkoper te Haarlem

"... hoe komt het dan, [...] dat de eerlykste man, en braefste krygsgebieder in een leger, verpligt is om zyn ampt te verlaten, wanneer hy geweigerd heeft in een tweegevegt te treden, al is hy daertoe uitgedaegd door een persoon, wiens domme onbezonnendheit hem koen maekt, of liever stout en balddaedig, en die dus eene strenge straf verdiende omdat hy de rust der maetschappye stoort?" (p.375)

and:

"... de geschiedenis van een Engelsch edelman, karsversch uit Parys gekomen, klagende over de balddadigheit der lakkaejen in London; en wenschende dat eenige derzelve van agter de koets hunner heeren geworpen wierden. Zyn vader, een meester van de groote wetenschap der vryheit, bestrafte hem door aentemerken, dat, schoon veele dezer knegts waerlyk zeer balddaedig waren, zulks een natuurlyk uitwerksel was van de vryheit op gemeene goederen; en dat de gemelde remedie erger dan de quael zou zyn: want hetzelfde gezag, 't welk de knegts om dusdanig misdryf van agter de koets wierp, den meester vanuit de koets mogt werpen. In tegenstelling van dit voorbeeld der misbruikte vryheit, stel ik de balddaedigheit der lakkaejen onder willekeurige magt: gelyk te Paris, daer de knegts deel aen 't gezag hunner heeren hebben; daer luiden van hoogen rang en ampte hun willekeurig gezag meedeelen aen hunne dienstboden; en daer de lakkaejen mogelyk veel erger zyn dan in London." (p.416)

~ ~ ~

Nederduitsch Taalkundig Woordenboek (1801) ~ Pieter Weiland (1754-1842)

weiland_balddadig.jpg

Note 1): unchanged in 1826 edition

Note 2): under "Moeskoppen" (verb):

"Moeskoppen [...] Stroopen, vrijbuiten, het land afloopen. Men gebruikt het woord van balddadig krijgsvolk, dat de boeren knevelt."

~ ~ ~

Uitlegkundig Woordenboek op de Werken van Pieter Kz. Hooft (1825) ~ Het Koninklijk-Nederlandsche Instituut van Wetenschappen, Letterkunde en Schoone Kunsten

uitlegkundigwb.jpg

Note:

"Intusschen vindt men op vele plaatsen balddaad geschreven, waar, volgens de voorgedragene onderscheiding, baldaad beter zou voegen. [...] Eene enkele reis ook ontmoet men baldaad, waar men balddaad zou wachten. [...] In 't gemeen komt balddaad veel menigvuldiger voor dan baldaad."

~ ~ ~

"De laatste Heiden in Overijssel. ~ Men verklaarde van regeringswege de vagebonden vogelvrij. Dit was onder anderen in Overijssel het geval met de zoogenaamde Zigeuners of Heidens. Het is bekend dat de laatste Zigeuner in Overijssel in het laatste gedeelte der vorige eeuw, een oud onschuldig man, balddadig doodgeschoten werd door een boerenzoon." ~ De Navorscher (1862)

~ ~ ~

Franck's Etymologisch Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal (1912, 2e druk, naar bron 1892) ~ N. van Wijk

"baldadig [...] Balddadig is niet anders dan een verkeerde spelling, reeds in de 16e eeuw uitgedacht door etymologen, die het woord met het bij boud besproken adjectief combineerden."

~ ~ ~

Keur van Nederlandsche woordafleidingen (1911) ~ T. Pluim

"Balddadig is feitelijk ’t zelfde woord als ’t voorgaande [baldadig], maar men hield het eerste lid voor bald, boud. Dit bald komt afzonderlijk in onze taal niet voor, wel in ’t Duitsch, en bet. koen, stoutmoedig, dapper, snel (thans in de laatste bet. in ’t Hgd.). Het Oudnoorsche baldr bet. vorst (voor wien dapperheid een eerste vereischte is, dus de dappere bij uitstek), vandaar de godennaam Balder. Ook in Boudewijn (Baldewin) komt het woord nog voor: de moedige vriend."

~ ~ ~

Beknopt etymologisch woordenboek der Nederlandsche taal (1925) ~ J. Vercoullie

"balddadig - hetzelfde als baldadig, in een kunstmatige spelling door bijgedachte aan *bald = boud."

~ ~ ~

Nederlands Etymologisch Woordenboek (1971) ~ J. de Vries

"baldadig [...] De reeds in de 16de eeuw opgekomen spelling balddadig berust op geleerde verbinding met het onder boud besproken woord."

~ ~ ~

Een glossarium van zeventiende-eeuws Nederlands (1975) ~ H.D. Tjeenk Willink

"balddaad, slechte, snode, onrechtvaardige handeling"

~ ~ ~

... I am still working on my conclusion, which will be easier after having posted this.

Edited by Otharus

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Lumka makia could be in any of these words as place names imo. Lew is interesting, a very Frisian word - Leu - didn't you think Lummer once? I can't find that place but thought you did Abe. LAUW in Dutch, any places around that start with that, I'd image so...

From Old Danish ljunken, from Old Norse *ljumka, *lumka ("to warm"), from Proto-Germanic *hlēwanōnan (“to make warm”), *hleumaz, *hlūmaz (“warm”), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱal(w)e-, *ḱel(w)e-, *k(')lēw- (“warm, hot”). Cognate with Old Swedish lionkin (“lukewarm”), Old Swedish liumber (“warm, mild, tepid”), Swedish dialectal lumma (“to be hot”), Old Saxon halōian (“to burn”). See lukewarm.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lunken

From Middle English lukewarme (“lukewarm, tepid”), equivalent to luke (“lukewarm”) +‎ warm. First element believed to be an alteration of Middle English lew (“tepid”), from Old English hlēow (“warm, sunny”), from Proto-Germanic *hliwjaz, *hlēwaz, *hlūmaz, *hleumaz (“warm”), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱal(w)e-, *ḱel(w)e-, *k(')lēw- (“warm, hot”). Cognate with Dutch lauw (“tepid”), German lauwarm (“lukewarm”), Faroese lýggjur (“warm”), Swedish ljum (“lukewarm”), ljummen (“lukewarm”) and ly (“warm”), Danish lummer (“muggy”), Danish and Norwegian lunken (“tepid”), Swedish dialectal ljunken (“lukwarm”).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lukewarm

Edited by The Puzzler

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Just something fascinating I ran into.

The then lord of the manor, Gilbert de Clare, gave the site in about 1142 to the medieval military monastic order of the Knights Templar, who were seeking ways of financing their role as guardians of the pilgrimage to the Holy Land. They built a town first recorded as "Baudac", later Baldac" (which led to modern day Baldock) - this was the medieval French name for Baghdad which was then the centre of the Muslim world;

http://www.baldockto...of-baldock.aspx

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Just on that warden, garden thing too:

The second syllable is easily explained. "Warden", Frisian/Dutch for an artificial dwelling hill, is a designation of a few terps, in accordance with the historical situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeuwarden

The problem is the prefix, which could be interpreted as leeu- or 'leeuw-' (Dutch for lion). Some scholars believe the latter to be true, for a lion is also found in the city's coat of arms. For this to be so, however, an extra "w" would be required. Other scholars argue the name came from the prefix leeu-, a corruption of luw- (Dutch for sheltered) or lee- (a Dutch denotion of a water circulation). The last one suits the watery province of Fryslân

Cognate with Old Swedish lionkin (“lukewarm”),

lee- a Dutch denotion of water circulation...

maybe the word Lumka is actually the same etymology as Leeu in Leeuwarden...meaning some kind of warm water circulation - I dunno, something seems fishy with all the leeu/lews/lauw's...

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Lumka makia could be in any of these words as place names imo. Lew is interesting, a very Frisian word - Leu - didn't you think Lummer once? I can't find that place but thought you did Abe. LAUW in Dutch, any places around that start with that, I'd image so...

From Old Danish ljunken, from Old Norse *ljumka, *lumka ("to warm"), from Proto-Germanic *hlēwanōnan (“to make warm”), *hleumaz, *hlūmaz (“warm”), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱal(w)e-, *ḱel(w)e-, *k(')lēw- (“warm, hot”). Cognate with Old Swedish lionkin (“lukewarm”), Old Swedish liumber (“warm, mild, tepid”), Swedish dialectal lumma (“to be hot”), Old Saxon halōian (“to burn”). See lukewarm.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lunken

From Middle English lukewarme (“lukewarm, tepid”), equivalent to luke (“lukewarm”) +‎ warm. First element believed to be an alteration of Middle English lew (“tepid”), from Old English hlēow (“warm, sunny”), from Proto-Germanic *hliwjaz, *hlēwaz, *hlūmaz, *hleumaz (“warm”), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱal(w)e-, *ḱel(w)e-, *k(')lēw- (“warm, hot”). Cognate with Dutch lauw (“tepid”), German lauwarm (“lukewarm”), Faroese lýggjur (“warm”), Swedish ljum (“lukewarm”), ljummen (“lukewarm”) and ly (“warm”), Danish lummer (“muggy”), Danish and Norwegian lunken (“tepid”), Swedish dialectal ljunken (“lukwarm”).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lukewarm

The place you mean is "Lemmer", a place in Friesland.

Just to add to the word-fest, lol, here something from Danish:

Dn: lumsk >> En: insidious, treacherus, cunning

But you suggest - like you did before - that Lumka-makia has something to do with 'to make (luke)warm'.

You wouldn't believe it, but I even tried anagrams for I have the feeling someone is having us on with that name.

But nothing useful showed up.

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Just something fascinating I ran into.

The then lord of the manor, Gilbert de Clare, gave the site in about 1142 to the medieval military monastic order of the Knights Templar, who were seeking ways of financing their role as guardians of the pilgrimage to the Holy Land. They built a town first recorded as "Baudac", later Baldac" (which led to modern day Baldock) - this was the medieval French name for Baghdad which was then the centre of the Muslim world;

http://www.baldockto...of-baldock.aspx

Baldock was founded by the Knights Templar (also the name of the town's secondary school) in the 1140s[citation needed]. Perhaps for this reason, one theory of the origin of the name Baldock is as a derivation from the Old French name for Baghdad: Baldac[2] which the Templars had hoped to conquer during the Crusades. A rival etymology, suggesting a derivation from "Bald Oak", perhaps meaning a dead oak, is superficially plausible, but the early forms of the name are against it[citation needed]. Although the Templars' connections to Baghdad were "tenuous",[3] it was widely regarded as the most prosperous market in the world and the Templars perhaps hoped that the name would confer a similar prosperity on their own market town in England[citation needed]. The modern layout of the town, and many buildings in the centre, date from the sixteenth century[citation needed], with the earliest dating from the fourteenth century

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldock

Baghdad became Baldac in French...

However this traditional English place, first recorded in 1168, is not what it seems, being named after the Iraqi city of Baghdad, known in French as "Baldac". According to Arabic etymology this means the "city of Dat", with Dat being the personal name of an early Mohammedan monk.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb...k#ixzz1uwqIBeGM

The craftsmen of Baghdad produced a fabric that Italians called Baldacchino in reference to the city known by the Tuscans as Baldacco "Baghdad". From here came the english word baldachin "canopy of state" and french baldaquin.

The second part of the word Baghdad, ie /dad/ "given" is the past participle of the Persian word رارن /dâdan/ "to give", derived from the Indo-European root /*dō/ 'to give'. From here also comes the French word "donner" (latin donar) or Russian дать / dat '/ 'to give', origin of the word дача /dača/ 11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png dacha was - before it becomes a "country cottage" - a "donated land" as a reward.

http://french-dragom...-al-mansur.html

I'm no wiser really but it was fascinating...

Edited by The Puzzler

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Just on that warden, garden thing too:

The second syllable is easily explained. "Warden", Frisian/Dutch for an artificial dwelling hill, is a designation of a few terps, in accordance with the historical situation.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Leeuwarden

The problem is the prefix, which could be interpreted as leeu- or 'leeuw-' (Dutch for lion). Some scholars believe the latter to be true, for a lion is also found in the city's coat of arms. For this to be so, however, an extra "w" would be required. Other scholars argue the name came from the prefix leeu-, a corruption of luw- (Dutch for sheltered) or lee- (a Dutch denotion of a water circulation). The last one suits the watery province of Fryslân

Cognate with Old Swedish lionkin (“lukewarm”),

lee- a Dutch denotion of water circulation...

maybe the word Lumka is actually the same etymology as Leeu in Leeuwarden...meaning some kind of warm water circulation - I dunno, something seems fishy with all the leeu/lews/lauw's...

I wonder how the oldest known name of Leeuwarden fits in all you quoted: "Lintarwde".

It's from the same link.

Maybe you remember that Verwijs (one of the 'suspects') made an error while trying to come to an etymology of this name;: he made a spelling error in "Lintarwde" and wrote "Lintwerda" on which he based his etymology (which he later withdrew, btw).

And which, as we all know, looks really a lot like the OLB "Linda-wrda" or 'Lindenoorden'.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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This map is interesting, for a start it has a large landmass still there below Flieland.

Follow all the way down to the bay shape near Hollandie pars island landform. Look closely. (Obviously click the link and enlarge the map)

I see Lemmer and Lemmerhorn, as well as Ems and in tiny letters right at the bottom, near the page crease, I see ..?elmiude (2 letters at front I can't make out properly).

This would be part of the Flyland flow imo, esp. with that landmass still there, which would have been much larger at one time. The whole flow system, looks to go from Flyland to this area.

http://upload.wikime...rcator)_177.jpg

Atlas_Cosmographicae_%28Mercator%29_177.jpg

Edited by The Puzzler

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