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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

11,638 posts in this topic

Otharis, If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the word Frya or Fryan People has something to do with "Free Love" rather than "Freedom"?

No, I said:

"FRY = free

FRYA = free-one; someone who is free"

...and to be more clear I would add that FRYA was also the name of the first mother.

FRYAS is short for FRYA.S.BARN = children (or people) of FRYA

FRYDOM = FRY-DOM;

Dom (plural domar) is still a word in Swedish, meaning: judgement, opinion (oordeel, vonnis, uitspraak).

So "frydom" would be something like the definition of being free. I will think of a better translation.

And I did not mean the sort of "free love" that was experimented with by hippies in the late sixties/ early seventies.

More that it was free of feelings of guilt or shame, like introduced with the Adam & Eve myth.

Archaeology from Greece and India has many examples of sexually explicit artwork, even on temples.

Throughout the Oera Linda Book we see that the people of Frya were a very pious lot

In my dictionary (van Dale 1986), the second meaning of "pious" is hypocrite...

1. Their young men had to be married by the age of 25 or they were bannished from society (to protect the girls and women).

2. Any act of fornication was severely dealt with and the perpetrators were sent to the penal colony in Britain.

3. Any person who had a relationship or wanted to marry a foreigner were bannished for life. etc,etc.

I agree that they had rules and ethics, but when it comes to relationships between the sexes, they may very well have been different from the judeo-christian tradition that we know (as well as other known matriatrchal cultures).

Chapter I, line 23-27 show that all BURGFAMNA had a man:

ADELA - APOL

SYTJA - STORO

JALTJA - ABEELO

DYWER - E.NOCH

DUN.ROS - FOPPO

So it was normal that Burgfamna had a partner.

The (Federal) Mother was chosen out of the burgfamna and apparently had to leave her man.

We know that Adela had children and that she refused to become the new Mother because she wanted to stay with Apol (chapter 1 line 3).

In the translations it says that she wanted to "marry" Apol.

The original text says:

"THAT IK NEEN MODER NEESA NAVT NILDE THRVCHDAM IK APOL TO MIN EENGA JEERDE"

Does anyone claim to know what "EENGA" ment in those days?

Do you believe that, when she was elected to be Federal Mother, she was still a young virgin without partner or children?

This is just one example of the translation being a modern interpretation.

I will go through the relevant parts to show what the original text says when I have more time.

The OLB is very clear that "Frya" meant "freedom" or liberty i.e free from bondage or enslavement.

"FRYDOM" being their most important value, they must have had a different sort of "marriage" than that from the "pious" judeo-christian tradition.

Edited by Otharus

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"SVNDER FRYDOM SEND ALLE OTHERA DUUGEDON ALLEENA GOD VMBE JO TO SLAVONA TO MAKJANDE."

Sandbach: "without liberty all other virtues serve to make you slaves"

In my opinion this does not really make sense.

Let me explain why this does not make sence.

If:

To make someone slave = to take away one's freedom.

and:

Liberty = freedom (or is there a difference?)

=>

the above sentence would say:

"without freedom all other virtues serve to take away your freedom"

How can anyone take away your freedom, if you don't have it?

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The point is that the OLB specifically refer to the large rivers only - 12 of them.

From Spain to the River Don there are 12 large rivers in Europe. The small rivers have nothing to do with the discussion.

Oh really?

From your post 1369:

so that besides the small rivers we had twelve large rivers given us by Wr-alda to keep our land moist, and to show our seafaring men the way to his sea.

==

5. Opposite Denamark and Juttarland we had colonies and a burgh-femme. Thence we obtained copper and silver, as well as tar and pitch, and some other necessaries.

Comment:

Here we clearly see that the Baltic was not one of their borders. They had colonies on the other side of the Baltic.

Oh really? Opposite Denmark and Jutland is south Sweden, or Skenland as the OLB calls it. That doesn't contradcit that the Baltic is the eastern border.

The Aster Sea is the eastern border, in the direction of the morning, the Middel Sea is the western border, in the direction of the evening. You say the Aster Sea is the Black Sea, and that this Middel Sea is the Mediterranean. That would make Frya's Empire quite tiny...well, that's according to the maps I have.

==

Comments:

1. Here the OLB clearly says Eastward. The Baltic, however, is North to North-North-East from the Netherlands or central Europe. The only sea that lies in an easterly direction is the Black Sea.

Who said we must look from the Netherlands?? It's rather obvious they talk from the northern edge of Europe as a whole, the coastal area from the Frisian Middel Sea in the west to the Baltic in the east.

I would like to see where in history the Black Sea is called Aster Sea or something similar. To me (and about every other person than you who wrote about the OLB) it's obvious the OLB means Ost Sea/ East Sea/ Baltic.

That later in the OLB the Baltic is called Balda Sea is no proof; it only suggests the OLB name changed into what is now used in English speaking countries.

Edited by Abramelin

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Otharis, If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the word Frya or Fryan People has something to do with "Free Love" rather than "Freedom"?

If this is the case, I am afraid I have to disagree with you. Throughout the Oera Linda Book we see that the people of Frya were a very pious lot:

1. Their young men had to be married by the age of 25 or they were bannished from society (to protect the girls and women).

2. Any act of fornication was severely dealt with and the perpetrators were sent to the penal colony in Britain.

3. Any person who had a relationship or wanted to marry a foreigner were bannished for life. etc,etc.

The OLB is very clear that "Frya" meant "freedom" or liberty i.e free from bondage or enslavement. It realy had nothing to do with "free Love". Remember they did not have contraceptives and somebody (men)would have had to take responsibility for taking care and providing for a family and especially the children.

O.E. freo "free, exempt from, not in bondage," also "noble, joyful," from P.Gmc. *frijaz (cf. M.H.G. vri, Ger. frei, Du. vrij, Goth. freis "free"), from PIE *prijos "dear, beloved" (cf. Skt. priyah "own, dear, beloved," priyate "loves;" O.C.S. prijati "to help," prijatelji "friend;" Welsh rhydd "free"). The adverb is from O.E. freon, freogan "to free, love." The primary sense seems to have been "beloved, friend, to love;" which in some languages (notably Gmc. and Celtic) developed also a sense of "free," perhaps from the terms "beloved" or "friend" being applied to the free members of one's clan (as opposed to slaves, cf. L. liberi, meaning both "free" and "children"). Cf. Goth. frijon "to love;" O.E. freod "affection, friendship," friga "love," friðu "peace;" O.N. friðr, Ger. Friede "peace;" O.E. freo "wife;" O.N. Frigg "wife of Odin," lit. "beloved" or "loving;" M.L.G. vrien "to take to wife, Du. vrijen, Ger. freien "to woo."

to free, love - beloved, friend, to love equals free from beloved, friend

The 2 meanings are co-joined and intertwined in a free beloved people type role imo. Like the free people, beloved of Freya/Wralda.

I say it's both and used in a co-joined term.

I found it again - Priam and Paris - as I saw the word Priam in priyah - Beloved father - Paris - free Trojans even appear this way, free, loving people. No father loves more than Priam, it is stressed in the Iliad, he is a very proud father of his beloved son Hector.

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Sorry, should have read all the posts first.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Puzz, I read your post about the Prussian/ Aesti (one page back), and although I agree with most of it, i dont agree with what you said about the Phrygians and Priam.

Anyway, I found a bit more.

From this online book ( HERE ) I made a screenshot of an interesting page :

Pruteni-Aesti-Tacitus.jpg

And read what Tacitus had to say about the language of these 'Pruteni' or Aesti...

And another interesting bit about the old Prussians:

Is it all Vikings where Scandinavians? Actually not. In stony Scandinavia wasn't enough population to conquer so many lands of West Europe and even to enrich them by new population … . It was possible (to conquer WE) just because the centre of Viking movement where Prussia-Lithuania-Kuronia-Gotland - lands chronicles described as the Sarmatia Europea … .

Russian Primary Chronicle (Chronicle of Nestor or Kiev Chronicle , Russian Povest vremennykh let “Tale of Bygone Years” 1040-1118 CE), the Rus were a group of "Varangians," possibly of Prussian origin, who had a leader named RuRiks. Rus appears to be derived from the baltic word for land/island, * Russitten, later Rusne, which in turn comes from Baltic/Prussian usenti, Rusinti a word associated with offering, sacrifice, to burn are fire for Gods. Varangijans possibly comes from Prussian word ‘Vytingis’/‘Witing’ (Slavic nations latter transformed it to ‘Vitiazj’), ‘a knight’. Even some Russian chronics telling stories about Varangians Prussian origin:

http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/vikingai/vikingai.htm

Oh boy, and here is something more:

The Vistula Lagoon (Polish: Zalew Wiślany; Russian: Калининградский залив or Kaliningradskiy Zaliv; German: Frisches Haff; Lithuanian: Aistmarės) is a fresh water lagoon on the Baltic Sea separated from Gdańsk Bay by the Vistula Spit. It is sometimes known as the Vistula Bay or Vistula Gulf. The modern German name, Frisches Haff, is derived from an earlier form, Friesisches Haff.[1] Both this term and the earlier Polish name Zatoka Fryska[2] translate "Frisian Bay". In historical contexts, Frisches Haff can also refer to the Oder Lagoon.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Lagoon

++++++++++

And to Alewyn:

I think that Wralda's Sea is not the Atlantic but actually the North Sea. One of the reasons is that a 1000 years ago the North Sea was called Mare Frisia.. because it was dominated by the Frisian seafarers/pirates. You will remember that the OLB says that Wralda's Sea was only for Frya's people, no one else was allowed to sail there.

Just like the Mare Frisia, or Frisian Sea, was only for the Frisians for centuries.

Edited by Abramelin

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Oh really?

From your post 1369:

so that besides the small rivers we had twelve large rivers given us by Wr-alda to keep our land moist, and to show our seafaring men the way to his sea.

==

5. Opposite Denamark and Juttarland we had colonies and a burgh-femme. Thence we obtained copper and silver, as well as tar and pitch, and some other necessaries.

Comment:

Here we clearly see that the Baltic was not one of their borders. They had colonies on the other side of the Baltic.

Oh really? Opposite Denmark and Jutland is south Sweden, or Skenland as the OLB calls it. That doesn't contradcit that the Baltic is the eastern border.

The Aster Sea is the eastern border, in the direction of the morning, the Middel Sea is the western border, in the direction of the evening. You say the Aster Sea is the Black Sea, and that this Middel Sea is the Mediterranean. That would make Frya's Empire quite tiny...well, that's according to the maps I have.

==

Comments:

1. Here the OLB clearly says “Eastward”. The Baltic, however, is North to North-North-East from the Netherlands or central Europe. The only sea that lies in an easterly direction is the Black Sea.

Who said we must look from the Netherlands?? It's rather obvious they talk from the northern edge of Europe as a whole, the coastal area from the Frisian Middel Sea in the west to the Baltic in the east.

I would like to see where in history the Black Sea is called Aster Sea or something similar. To me (and about every other person than you who wrote about the OLB) it's obvious the OLB means Ost Sea/ East Sea/ Baltic.

That later in the OLB the Baltic is called Balda Sea is no proof; it only suggests the OLB name changed into what is now used in English speaking countries.

Aster? Might mean sea of the star, or a star sea, meaning a morning star - the sea the morning star sits over. No where can I find that aster means EAST.

Not to say it's not in the East but I don't think it actually means East Sea.

Here some food for thought:

The Black Sea got its name from the Ottoman Turks.'Kara (Black)' denotes 'North' in Medieval Turkish, as in Kara Denizi- Kara Sea north of Siberian Yakut Turks, similar to Black Sea. In Turkish 'Red' denotes south as in Kizil Deniz, Red Sea to the south of Anatolia, while 'Ak'-White denotes west. The old name for the Aegean and the Mediterranean combined in Anatolian Turkish is "Akdeniz" -the White Sea-; although in contemporary Turkish, Akdeniz denotes only the Mediterranean Sea as now the northern part of the Mediterranean is called the Aegean Sea following its Western name. During the Ottoman times this was not the case as the Aegean was called the Sea of Islands -Adalar Denizi referring to the 12 islands laying between Greece and Anatolia.

The Black Sea is one of four seas named in English after common color terms — the others being the Red Sea, the White Sea and the Yellow Sea.

Black = North

Red = south

White = west

Yellow = east ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea

But, yes, the East Sea could be the Baltic, if named if you were West of it, in Denmark.

The Turks named the Black Sea to equate to the word North.

The Black Sea therefore is really the North Sea. (not in the OLB, just in general)

What??? Unless you knew who the sea was named by you would not really understand why the Black Sea really equates to North Sea.

If I called the Black Sea the North Sea, you'd think I was mad.

Brain still ticking on this whole subject.

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Alewyn already quoted me about this, but I will repeat it again:

In Germanic languages, except English, East Sea is used: Afrikaans (Oossee), Danish (Østersøen), Dutch (Oostzee), German (Ostsee), Icelandic and Faroese (Eystrasalt), Norwegian (Østersjøen), and Swedish (Östersjön). In Old English it was known as Ostsæ.

In addition, Finnish, a Baltic-Finnic language, has calqued the Swedish term as Itämeri "East Sea", disregarding the geography (the sea is west of Finland), though understandably since Finland was a part of Sweden from Middle Ages until 1809.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Sea

Check some of these names, please.

Aster = Oster = East.

The OLB mentions 'in the direction of the morning' or something. Thats EAST to me...

.

Edited by Abramelin

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The White Sea would have been the Mediterranean to the Turks, as it was WEST of them.

No wonder everyone is confused.

To the Europeans it was the Middle Sea, in the middle of the earth - mediterranean - middle terrain.

So it's really important imo to figure out who named these seas and where they were situated when they were named.

I agree Abe the North Sea sounds like W'ralda's Sea to me.

I told you those Frisians were at the Vistula!!

Rusenas - from the islands, Baltic islanders. (hehe)

Russian Primary Chronicle (Chronicle of Nestor or Kiev Chronicle , Russian Povest vremennykh let “Tale of Bygone Years” 1040-1118 CE), the Rus were a group of "Varangians," possibly of Prussian origin, who had a leader named RuRiks. Rus appears to be derived from the baltic word for land/island, * Russitten, later Rusne, which in turn comes from Baltic/Prussian usenti, Rusinti a word associated with offering, sacrifice, to burn are fire for Gods. Varangijans possibly comes from Prussian word ‘Vytingis’/‘Witing’ (Slavic nations latter transformed it to ‘Vitiazj’), ‘a knight’. Even some Russian chronics telling stories about Varangians Prussian origin:

To burn fire to Gods, sacrificers.

That's fine to not agree with Priam and Paris being relative to beloved and free, but I think it does. I think there's a whole circle from Northern Europe, into Anatolia and back to the Mediterranean.

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I am not confused, lol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre

And read about that radiant spirit of the dawn...

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Alewyn already quoted me about this, but I will repeat it again:

In Germanic languages, except English, East Sea is used: Afrikaans (Oossee), Danish (Østersøen), Dutch (Oostzee), German (Ostsee), Icelandic and Faroese (Eystrasalt), Norwegian (Østersjøen), and Swedish (Östersjön). In Old English it was known as Ostsæ.

In addition, Finnish, a Baltic-Finnic language, has calqued the Swedish term as Itämeri "East Sea", disregarding the geography (the sea is west of Finland), though understandably since Finland was a part of Sweden from Middle Ages until 1809.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Sea

Check some of these names, please.

Aster = Oster = East.

The OLB mentions 'in the direction of the morning' or something. Thats EAST to me...

.

I agree the sea is East in direction from Europe, as it does say in the direction of morning but I dunno if ASTer really equates to EAST er.

I can see plenty of OST as East but no AST as East as obvious as it seems. The Aster Sea imo does not equate the the word EAST SEA even though it is in the East, the direction of morning. It equates to sea of the morning star if anything, to me.

If you can link me to some sort of etymology that says AST equates to East that would be good. That's not Ost.

The word east is derived from the name of one of the four dwarves in Norse mythology, Norðri, Suðri, Austri and Vestri, who each represented one of the directions of the world. The etymology of east is from a Proto-Indo-European language word for dawn, *hausos. Cf. Latin aurora and Greek eōs. Ēostre, a Germanic goddess of dawn, might have been a personification of both dawn and the cardinal points.

By convention, an ordinary terrestrial map is oriented so the right side is east. This convention dates from the Renaissance. Many medieval maps were oriented with the Orient (the East) east at the top, which is the different source of the verb orient.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East

Austri - Eostre - dawn. Just as I said morning star, dawn star, Venus. Hausos is the origin of the word East. Aurora and Eos (Dawn, mother of Phaethon)

So, there you go, the word AST does not equate to the word East but means East since the dawn is there. Austri means east because it means astra, the star of the dawn.

Hausos - ausos aust ast aster = Dawn, not necessarily East, as such.

Edited by The Puzzler

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I am not confused, lol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre

And read about that radiant spirit of the dawn...

Yes, this confirms it, it means dawn, eos, morning star. Austi is dawn star, not East in etymological terms.

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If you can link me to some sort of etymology that says AST equates to East that would be good. That's not Ost.

What about this?

east

O.E. east "east, easterly, eastward," from P.Gmc. *aus-to-, *austra- "east, toward the sunrise" (cf. O.Fris. ast "east," aster "eastward," Du. oost O.S. ost, O.H.G. ostan, Ger. Ost, O.N. austr "from the east"), from PIE *aus- "to shine," especially "dawn" (cf. Skt. ushas "dawn," Gk. aurion "morning," O.Ir. usah, Lith. auszra "dawn," L. aurora "dawn," auster "south"), lit. "to shine." The east is the direction in which dawn breaks. For theory of shift in sense in Latin, see Australia. Meaning "the eastern part of the world" (from Europe) is from c.1300. Fr. est, Sp. este are borrowings from M.E., originally nautical. Cold War use of East for "communist states" first recorded 1951. Natives of eastern Germany and the Baltics were known as easterlings 16c.-18c. The east wind in Biblical Palestine was scorching and destructive (cf. Ezek. xvii.10); in New England it is bleak, wet, unhealthful. East End of London so called by 1846; East Side of Manhattan so called from 1882; East Indies (India and Southeast Asia) so called 1590s to distinguish them from the West Indies.

Online Etymology Dictionary

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt

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So, in that case the Aster Sea could be the Baltic Sea as it is where the dawn would be seen from Denmark.

North Sea = Wraldas Sea

Baltic Sea = Aster Sea

Eastward our boundary went to the extremity of the Aster Sea, and westwards to the Middel Sea; so that besides the small rivers we had twelve large rivers given us by Wr-alda to keep our land moist, and to show our seafaring men the way to his sea.

Keeping in mind the Orient - east was up the top of maps until the Renaissance, it could be here that it means eastward - north and westwards could be south on the map.

That could essentially place the East in the North if the etymologies are different.

The dawn star - aster does not exactly mean EAST. It means the direction of morning.

The Aster Sea could therefore be in the North and the Mediterranean in the South on a map with East at the top......I think.

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What about this?

Online Etymology Dictionary

cormac

Yep, I worked it out, east means austra - star of the dawn, which happens to be in the East.

I live in Australia, it's not because the country is in the East - it's because we live under the southern stars. We are in the South but our countries name really is relative to the same word star - aster - austi - it's not Eastralia, it's really star stralia if anything.

the word east comes from star only because the main star of the time, the dawn star, eos, was in the morning direction, which became known as East, the word East comes from the word star not from a direction. Chicken or egg? Aster means star first, east second.

Silly me, that link would have been the first I would have taken but I forgot to put east in it...good info, I see O.F is Ast for east but it would come from austi, so that means to me, we can find early Greek in Northern Europe.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Hang on, I just noticed Auster as south. I mean I know Australia is Southern Land but the austra always led me to think about stars and I know there is a connection somewhere.

O.E. east "east, easterly, eastward," from P.Gmc. *aus-to-, *austra- "east, toward the sunrise" (cf. O.Fris. ast "east," aster "eastward," Du. oost O.S. ost, O.H.G. ostan, Ger. Ost, O.N. austr "from the east"), from PIE *aus- "to shine," especially "dawn" (cf. Skt. ushas "dawn," Gk. aurion "morning," O.Ir. usah, Lith. auszra "dawn," L. aurora "dawn," auster "south"),

austra east toward the sunrise - hmm, australia - southern land.

So, austra can mean south.

It's not East land by any means, it's south land, in the east?...

austr = from the east

auster = south

with reference to the "hot" south wind that blows into Italy. Thus auster "(hot) south wind," metaphorically extended to "south."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Australia

See, Australia is only Southern Land in Latin.

It would translate to land of the dawn star imo in Frisian. Since English and Frisian are so close, the aust in Australia would not mean south to anyone who was not using an Italian based language.

Terra Australis - land of the south

So, aust(er) in modern word Australia does not mean stars at all, we are under the Southern Cross too. It's a corrupted Northern European word for East, dawn.

The Latin sense shift in australis, if it is indeed the same word other IE languages use for east (see aurora), for which Latin uses oriens (see orient), is perhaps it is based on a false assumption about the orientation of Italy, "with shift through 'southeast' explained by the diagonal position of the axis of Italy" [buck]; cf. Walde, Alois, "Lateinisches etymologisches Wörterbuch," 3rd. ed., vol. 1, p.87; Ernout, Alfred, and Meillet, Alfred, "Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue latine," 2nd. ed., p.94. Or perhaps the connection is more ancient, and from PIE root *aus- "to shine," source of aurora, which also produces words for "burning," with reference to the "hot" south wind that blows into Italy. Thus auster "(hot) south wind," metaphorically extended to "south."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Australia

That tells us there the confusion, from PIE, to shine, like stars - burning, to hot south wind, then south comes from that.

Australia then, is just like the OLB words, it seems Latin but underlying it is probably a Northen European meaning.

Added link.

Edited by The Puzzler

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I see O.F is Ast for east but it would come from austi, so that means to me, we can find early Greek in Northern Europe.

No it wouldn't, as the etymology I linked says 'aurion', not 'austi'. Chicken or egg quibbling aside, it still means 'east' as opposed to 'north', 'south' or 'west'.

cormac

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OK, so Australia.

east

O.E. east "east, easterly, eastward," from P.Gmc. *aus-to-, *austra- "east, toward the sunrise" (cf. O.Fris. ast "east," aster "eastward,"

Asterix, a star * Cartoon character from Amorica, Gaul.

Maybe the Aster Sea is the White Sea. Called the West Sea = White by Turks (west from Turkey)

East from Denmark and the extremity of the probably area of the Frisians along the North coastline.

Balda Sea - Baltic

Aster Sea - White Sea

Wralda's Sea - North Sea

Middel Sea - Mediterranean

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sea

In Northern Europe, over the White Sea is where the dawn would come from.

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No it wouldn't, as the etymology I linked says 'aurion', not 'austi'. Chicken or egg quibbling aside, it still means 'east' as opposed to 'north', 'south' or 'west'.

cormac

Australia is named through error. Austra does not mean south, only to the people who termed the words Terra Australia. Latin.

I agree, though, aster does equate to east, only through that being the direction of morning, aurion. Aster in Greek is star.

It's all good.

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If it wasn't confusing enough how about this - North means South (down - under).

The word north is related to the Old High German nord, both descending from the Proto-Indo-European unit ner-, meaning "down" (or "under"). (Presumably a natural primitive description of its concept is "to the left of the rising sun".)

To the left of the rising sun.

If you were in Western Europe and you saw the sun rise in the side the morning approached, the North would be on the left.

Under, down = north. Under the sun, down to the left, is North.

The actual words East and West come from Austri and Vestri.

The word west is derived from the name of one of the four dwarves in Norse mythology, Norðri, Suðri, Austri and Vestri, who each represented one of the directions of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West

If you placed the cross shape of the compass with North pointing toward the North Sea, east would sit about where the White Sea is and diagonally across west from that would be the Mediterranean, South would head towards Greece.

Using this idea:

The Latin sense shift in australis, if it is indeed the same word other IE languages use for east (see aurora), for which Latin uses oriens (see orient), is perhaps it is based on a false assumption about the orientation of Italy, "with shift through 'southeast' explained by the diagonal position of the axis of Italy"

The shape of Italy would point North to South, really to us a North west/south east alignment.

250px-EU-Italy.svg.png

Look at Italy as a North-South pointer.

West would then be the Mediterranean west of Italy and East the White Sea direction.

The Balda Sea would be the Baltic Sea and not a boundary of any sort.

Edited by The Puzzler

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or, Abe, do you say the Vistula lagoon is the East Sea Aster Sea - Estmere according to the book link you gave...

I will then, the Vistula Lagoon is, imo, after much, much thought, the Aster Sea.

270px-Vistula_Lagoon.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Lagoon

Based on, it being a Frisian sea, and known as the Estmere.

The North Sea is Wralda's Sea.

The Baltic Sea is the Balda Sea.

The Middel Sea is the Mediterranean.

All on a N - S alignment to Italy.

The locations above and also:

Bedrum = sleeping place - space

Wagrum = wall - space

Those are points I am pretty definite on now.

The language is not Latin based but Nordic and German and those 2 words can be explained as above.

If the Vistula lagoon was known as the Aster Sea, it makes sense the people are called the Estonians right there too, Finno-Urgit speakers.

It also makes sense that Phaethon is from there now especially since the name stands for Dawn, Eos. The mother of Phaethon is the Vistula Lagoon with the amber drops, right at the mouth of the Vistula River, that Herodotus says is the Eridanus, precisely where the amber trade came into the Balkans from.

Edited by The Puzzler

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If this debate (and the silence)is anything to go by,The Dutch and the Frisians do not deserve the Oera Linda Book.

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If this debate (and the silence) is anything to go by,The Dutch and the Frisians do not deserve the Oera Linda Book.

There is no such thing as "the" Dutch or "the" Frisians; people have always been coming and going.

The culture of the Netherlands suffers from what could be called multiple personality disorder or identity crisis. (Doesn't the whole world?)

I guess that more than 95% of the population has never even heard of the OLB.

The manuscript should be studied by an international, intercultural, multidisciplinary group of researchers.

I hereby volunteer.

Edited by Otharus

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If this debate (and the silence)is anything to go by,The Dutch and the Frisians do not deserve the Oera Linda Book.

I just made 11 posts since this morning, hardly quiet, I'm in Australia, I think everyone else is in bed now....I'm pretty much talking to myself at this time of day.

The Frisians deserve it, I do believe it is their history. They are originators of the English language and the Anglo-Saxons, after the Celts and prior to the Norman invasion, I believe they did trade in the Nordic Bronze Age and I think the OLB is true, everything is falling into place now.

The name Germany or Germanics only came into usage with the Romans, these people were there, their language is Germanic and IE, just like Old English. I have translated wagrum which no one commented on, into Germanic as in wattle-work wall space to write on and bedrum as sleeping place space.

I might not agree your whole book is correct Alewyn but I do think the OLB is truth after over 1000 posts in this thread.

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From: "De Rand van het Rijk ~ De Romeinen en de Lage Landen" (The Romans and the Low Lands)

Here's a scan from this book that fascinates me because of the way M and N are written (L COMINIVS), the outer lines not being vertical like in normal Roman script, but just like in the JOL-script.

post-106727-097515400 1287995186_thumb.j

I know it's not hard evidence, but thought some of you might like it anyway.

Edited by Otharus

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