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Riaan

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

11,638 posts in this topic

Their God Thyr, which although seeming to mean Heracles, I think actually goes back to Tyr, as an earlier Heracles, and even Mars.

They say Tyre is named so because it means rock, Sur etc...

But Tyr, as Tor, is nothing else but a rocky outcrop, so Thyr itself could mean rock.

Anyway I'll be back tomorrow.

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So far, you haven't shown you know any truth. Where's the evidence to support your claims?

cormac

I wrote a book about it, remember?

You rejected the OLB without reading it and you rejected my book without reading it.

You also rejected all archaeological, geological and historical proof of a catastrophic event in ca. 2200 BC (and please, don't ask me again for proof). You reject anything that you are not familiar with.

So you see, it does not bother me in the least that you reject all my arguments here.

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Getting back to the language used in the OLB...

I translated the relevant part from the site I talked about earlier, http://rodinbook.nl/olbonderzoekhalbertsma.html

In Dutch:

Het Oera Linda Boek is in een soort van Oudfries geschreven, niet in het Westerlauwers, maar in het Rüstringisch van de 14de-15de eeuw. Het Rüstringisch werd gesproken in een deel van Ost-Friesland (D) en is bekend uit het Rüstringisch Recht. Kenmerkend voor het Rüstringisch is de uitgang -on voor -en (wildon voor wilden, bodon voor boden). Dat is opmerkelijk, omdat op grond van de vindplaats Den Helder het Westfries verwacht zou mogen worden en op grond van de vermelding van Leeuwarden als plaats, waar Liko en Hiddo hun teksten schreven het Oudfries van Westergo kon worden verwacht. Joost Halbertsma is kennelijk gecharmeerd geweest van het Rüstringisch, dat hij heeft beschouwd als een oudere vorm van het Oudfries, die neigde naar het Gothisch. Daarnaast komt men in het Oera Linda Boek veel anglicismen tegen. Beide vinden we terug in de geschriften van Joost Halbersma*. Bijzonder in het Oera Linda Boek is het frekwente gebruik van negatieve werkwoorden (nildon = zij wilden niet naast wildon = zij wilden wel) en participia in plaats van infinitieven. Weliswaar stammen die uit het Oudfries, maar het Oera Linda Boek maakt er wel een ruimer gebruik van. De basistaal van het Oera Linda Boek is dus het Rüstringisch, maar eigentijdse woorden en uitdrukkingen, die niet aan Rüstringische teksten konden worden ontleend, werden naar analogie van het Rüstringisch gemaakt. Dat levert soms hilarische situaties op.

==

In English:

The Oera Linda Book is written in some sort of Old Frisian, not in Wester Lauwers, but in Rüstringisch of the 14th-15th century. Rüstringisch was spoken in a part of Ost-Friesland (Germany) and is known from the Rüstringian Law. Rüstringisch's main characteristic is the ending -on instead of -en (wildon/wilden , bodon/boden). This is remarkable because, based on the place of finding of the OLB, Den Helder, Westfries should be expected, or on the basis of the mentioning of Leeuwarden, where Liko and Hiddo wrote their texts , Old Frisian of Westergo should be expected. Joost Halbertsma apparently was charmed by Rüstringisch which he regarded as an older form of Old Frisian which was closer to Gothic. In addition, many Anglicisms show up in in the Oera Linda Book. Both can be found in the writings of Joost Halbersma *. What's special in the Oera Linda Book is the frequent use of negative verbs ('nildon' = 'they did not want', together with 'wildon' = 'they did want') and participia instead of infinitives. Although derived/descendent from the Old Frisian, the Oera Linda Book makes a wider use of them. So, the basic language of the Oera Linda Book is Rüstringisch, but contemporary words and expressions, which could not be obtained from Rüstringian texts, were created according to Rüstringian. This sometimes results in hilarious situations.

http://rodinbook.nl/olbonderzoekhalbertsma.html

+++++++

EDIT:

Dr Justus Hiddes "Joast/Joost" Halbertsma

Birth: Oct. 23, 1789, Grouw, Friesland Province, Netherlands

Death: Feb. 27, 1869, Deventer, Overijssel Province, Netherlands

Pastor of the Mennonite Church in successively Bolsward (1814-1822) and in Deventer (1822-1856). His activities as a clergyman were hardly successfull. He owes his reputation to his contrubutions to the development of several other disciplines. Besides clergyman he was: a self-taught linguist, a lexicographer, orthography reformer, expert in folk art, biographer. He wrote numerous articles on linguistics, Frisian history and many other subjects and corresponded with many scholars abroad, such as (in Germany) Jakob Grimm, (in Denmark) the linguist Rasmus Rask, in Engeland the poet Robert Southey and the linguist Joseph Bosworth and with several Italians as well. Halbertsma did pioneering research in the field of folk art. His (mostly very nonconformist and modern) ideas on language and the linguistic methods of his days not only had a scientific backgound but also political and social dimensions. In 1836 he became a member of the Dutch Royal Academy of Sciences, Arts and Letters, and later also of several other scientific academies.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=41638086

And more (in Dutch) here:

http://www.11en30.nu/global/nl/Artikel/35

.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I wrote a book...

So did Dr. Suess.

You rejected the OLB without reading it and you rejected my book without reading it.

Nope, I said at the time that I wasn't interested in the OLB, which is not the same thing. I did and still do reject the alleged historical claims in this thread that are supposedly based on it as well as the claims you've made here thus far. Having at this point read the OLB, I still see no evidence for anything supporting the claims that they had anything directly to do with cultures living within the Mediterranean. You've still provided no evidence for such whatsoever.

You also rejected all archaeological, geological and historical proof of a catastrophic event in ca. 2200 BC (and please, don't ask me again for proof).

You've provided absolutely NO evidence for a catastrophic event (singular) c.2200 BC nor for the specific date of 2193 BC, which you've tried to present as if it was a foregone conclusion, repeatedly. It's not. I've shown several times that there were several volcanic and impactor events within the 3rd millenium BC, yet NONE of these correspond to either 2193 BC nor 2200 BC. Based on your claims here and having now read the OLB, why would I wish to read "Survivors" when you haven't even shown evidence that the OLB is true.

cormac

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Please first read my posts 1817 and 1818 on page 122 of this thread, the ones no one responded to...

And then read this, a site with all the colors of the rainbow, but with text (about Friso and the Frisians) that is obviously a copy-and-past/translation job from a Dutch book (it's all over the internet):

http://britam.org/redjews.html

http://www.britam.org/countries/holland.html

Centuries ago Frisian bible thumpers wanted to prove that the Frisians were a Lost Tribe of Israel.

The 19th century OLB tried to prove something close to the opposite.

OK, here's a quote:

Frisian-Legends Affirm Their Israelite Origins!

According to Frisian-legends a certain King Adel was a descendant of Shem son of Noah. King Adel in India had three sons: Friso, Bruno, and Saxo.

Legendary sources quoted by the historian Le Petit (1601, available from the Rare Books Section of Hebrew University, Jerusalem, Israel) also mention Friso, Bruno, and Saxo and say too that they were descendants of Shem and lived in "India". The term "India", however, did not always mean the place known today as India but rather was more synonymous with "Cush" which term was sometimes applied to areas east of the Caspian Sea in present-day Central Asia and is the "Cush" (i.e. "Ethiopia") mentioned in Genesis 2:13. The Prophets Zephaniah (3:10) and Isaiah (10:10) said that 'Cush' was one of the places to which the exiled Israelites would go. The Aramaic Translation renders 'Cush' as 'Hodu' (sometimes translated as 'India') but is referring to the region of Hara in eastern Iran and surrounding areas to the north.

Similarly, Le Petit located the "India" he spoke of in a land by the Emodian Mountains which according to Ptolemy were in the area adjoining the Caspian and Aral Seas, in east Scythia, to the north of Afghanistan and India-proper. Tzvi Chasdoi related that in Jewish tradition the area east of the Caspian was known as "Cush". Jewish legends traced the Tribes of Zebulon and Nephtali to this region and placed other Israelite Tribes in the immediate vicinity. This is the locality where Frisian legends say Friso, Saxo, and Bruno came from.

In this land east of the Caspian archaeologists have found the ruins of an extensive civilization whose inhabitants spoke Aramaic. Some of the Israelite Tribes had spoken Aramaic even before their exile and the language was used as an official tongue in the Assyrian Empire and is believed to have been the most commonly-used one. Phillip Lozinski (1953) argued that from this region east of the Caspian came the "Barbarian" peoples whom he suggests may have been at least partly Semitic. They invaded Europe beginning from around the 200s CE. Additional evidence exists showing that the invaders must have come from Scythia and the region east of the Caspian. These invasions and migratory movements were often connected with activities of the Huns who themselves were a mixture of various peoples. The Huns from this vicinity caused other nations to flee westward. N.C. Lukman ("Skoldung und Skilfinge", Copenhagen, 1943) showed how in Nordic Mythology the name Adel (meaning "Noble") was often used as a euphemism for Attila the Hun and for the Huns in general. In the Frisian legends King Adel was the father of Friso, Bruno, and Saxo. Scientific Linguists have concluded that the Northern "Barbarians" who entered Europe had the later European aspects of their languages imposed upon them by an external force. Brit-Am asserts that originally they spoke both Hebrew and Aramaic.

"In the time of the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnessar (586 B.C.), 3 brothers - Friso, Bruno, and Saxo with [their] wives, children, and relatives fled out of the country, encouraged to do so by announcements of the Prophets concerning the fall of the town".

[source: "Friesche Mythen en Sagen" by J. P. Wiersma, 1973. Extract translated and supplied to us by Fred Koeslag see also 'The Tribes" p.354 ]

In this legend Bruno represents the Angles who according to Ptolemy had at one stage been centered on the region of Brunswick in eastern Germany. They had also had a center in Angeln to the south of Denmark or else they moved to Angeln prior to the invasion of England. By placing Friso, Bruno, and Saxo in Jerusalem (which became representative of all Israel) before its capture the legend in effect infers that the Frisians, Saxons, and Brunswickian-Angles were therefore originally Israelites or Jews.

The Venerable Bede also identified the Anglo-Saxons as the Chosen People!

(...)

The legends state that via Asia Minor (present-day Turkey) the people of Friso, Bruno, and Saxo came to the west. Friso in 313 BCE landed in Friesland (i.e. in Frisia) and founded a settlement called "Stavoren". Bruno and Saxo (brothers of Frisso) went eastward though Saxo (according to Le Petit) then returned to the west. Bruno founded the city of Brunswick in which area of Germany Ptolemy placed the Angloi thus identifying them with the people of Bruno. The Angloi (Angles) also moved northward to the regions bordering Denmark and from there they went to Britain some of them sojourning (like the Saxons) in Frisia on the way.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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According to the OLB the Gauls/Golar originated in the Golan Hights.

All the OLB had to offer was wordplay to prove it's point.

I can do a similar thing...

Gjallar is the horn of Heimðallr (Heimdallr) who guards the portal of the world of the Germanic gods.

Gjallar > Golar > Gauls = (to) Call >>> a rooster crowing/calling in the morning as symbol for the Gauls, and also as protection.

2009107_France10Francs1952RoosterRev.jpg

Norse mythology, Gjallarhorn (Old Norse "Calling horn"[1]) is the horn with which the gatekeeper god, Heimdallr, announces Ragnarök

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjallarhorn

http://home.tiscali.nl/gjallar/Sagen.html

http://www.gjallar.nl/

If you believe the OLB etymology makes sense, than mine should make sense too.

--

EDIT:

This - and only this post of today - is proof of Otharus being right about me being drunk.

-

So, ignore this post if you prefer, but do not ignore what I posted before during this day.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I was recently contacted by Alewyn Raubenheimer, a fellow South African, who has just published a new theory about the Great Flood in a book called Survivors of the Great Tsunami. He based his theories on the so-called Oera Linda Book, which I in fact had never heard of before. If you are interested, you can read more about its contents on his website (here). Although I do not necessarily agree with his theories, you may find it an interesting read. The book can be purchased here.

Hello fellow wonderer's, thinkers and enthusiasts. My name is Jesse and for years I have had a keen interest in the ancient world and it's civilisations, particularly the Celts. A chance find of "Where Troy once stood" has, for me, settled so many worries I had with the accepted view of early European history that it has become indispensable to me.

I think I have read all the posts on UM about the OLB now but have yet to come up with anything fresh on the subject. At present I am trying to re-establish a link I had to a theory about tectonics and extraterrestrial impact which had some good logic about why plates seem to have moved at differing rates. Australia, India, Antarctica etc. as this may well be an aid to understanding more about that which is in the OLB. Any suggestions?

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Hello fellow wonderer's, thinkers and enthusiasts. My name is Jesse and for years I have had a keen interest in the ancient world and it's civilisations, particularly the Celts. A chance find of "Where Troy once stood" has, for me, settled so many worries I had with the accepted view of early European history that it has become indispensable to me.

I think I have read all the posts on UM about the OLB now but have yet to come up with anything fresh on the subject. At present I am trying to re-establish a link I had to a theory about tectonics and extraterrestrial impact which had some good logic about why plates seem to have moved at differing rates. Australia, India, Antarctica etc. as this may well be an aid to understanding more about that which is in the OLB. Any suggestions?

Hi Jesse, welcome to UM.

Well, as you may have read, several here have some doubts about the impact theory as put forward by Alewyn in his book about the OLB.

Anyway, something tells me that you should read the links in the opening post of the "The Nasca Code - Geometry and Connectivity at the Nasca Hydraulic Lines” thread, because the writer, luiscabrejo , seems to have similar ideas as you have.

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I think I found an interesting 19th century work about the language and history of the Frisians.

I have quoted from the HTML format, but it's best to read it in the PDF format because the HTML format is created with OCR (Optical Character Reading) and some characters won't show up properly.

"The Frisian language and literature: a historical study" , By W. T. H E W E T T , 1879.

-39-

This region became subject to the courts of Holland in the eleventh

century

The oldest manuscripts of any portion of the Frisian laws are not

probably earlier than the fourteenth century, that of the Rustringer

laws preserved in the grand ducal library at Oldenburg^ is of about

the year 1300. A copy of the Rustringer Busstaxen of 1327 A. D.

is preserved in the grand ducal library at Hanover. A parchment

manuscript of the laws of the Brocmen of 1345, is also contained in

the same Hbrary. A parchment manuscript of the Hunsingoer laws

of about 1400 is preserved at Leeuwarden. Two charters exist with

the original seals still upon them^ one of 1374 at Franeker, and one

of 1390, at Leeuwarden.

Among the literary remains which belong to what may be termed

the middle period of Frisian literature, and which deserve mention

as memorials of the language, are two works called Thet Freske

Riim and the Gesta Fresonum. The Freske Riim was written in

Frisian, but translated from the Latin of a certain Master Alwijn^

who w^as rector of the Latin School at Sneek about 1400. Alwijn

was learned in Roman law and church history. His title of Master

was received from some foreign university. His narrative begins

with the Creation, rambles through sacred and profane history,

through lives of Jewish patriarchs and Roman kings. His Frisians

served in Asia the king of heaven, but sailed to Europe and were

enslaved and forced to become idolaters by a Danish king. The

poem, which is but a fragment when compared with the existing

Netherlandish version, contains 1671 unequal rhymed lines. The

poem was evidently divided at first into separate parts, each bearing

a special title, as the *' Rhyme of Noah and his Child," etc. The nar-

ration is tame and spiritless. The rhyme is monotonous from the

repetition of the same jSnal words. The language is in the main

pure, and the forms, those of Frisia west of the Lauwers.

The Gesta Fresonum is a translation into Frisian of a prose nar-

rative called the Gesta Frisiorum, written in Netherlandish in the

latter part of the fifteenth century. A rhymed history written in

the same language, called the " Olde Freesche Cronike," also exists.

Both point to an earlier Latin original. The same events are relat-

ed in both in about the same terms, but in a different order. The orig-

inal author drew from the legends of St. Lebuinus, of Boniface and

Liudger, the Bishop's Book of Utrecht and a Saxon and Frisian chron-

icle. The author was a Frisian who resided at Utrecht not later

than 1474. The subject of this work is the usual mingling of script-

ural and early mythical Frisian history with the lives of the saints.

The blending of Saxon and Frisian legends is manifest in all these

early chronicles. The brothers Saxo, Bruno and Friso sail from an

island in India, called "Frisia the Blest," where St Thomas had

preached. They reach the coast of Europe ; Saxo settles on the Elbe,

and becomes the ancestor of the Saxons ; Bruno resides on the Weser

and founds Brunswick ; Friso settles Frisia, and gives to his seven sons

the Seven Seelands. A daughter, Wijmolt, resided on the east of

the Weser and gave her name to the country, which embraced Dit-

marsh. There is an echo here of the story of Hildeburg in Beowulf.

The order of narration is confused and inconsequential. The Ian-

guage is not entirely pure, and the influence of Netherlandish forms

is manifest

====

The language in which the Frisian laws were written presents

several dialects with well defined lines of difference. Commencing

at the east the Rustringer dialect, spoken west of the Weser in

Oldenburg, has preserved the original forms of words most closely,

and is to be taken as the basis of comparison with the other dialects

and the Anglo-Saxon, Old Saxon and Norse.

=====

II. THE LAWS OF SINGLE COMMUNITIES OR STATES.

Frisia at our earliest acquaintance with it was divided in separate

^ The seven Seelands are described in a document of the fifteenth cen-

tury. The first. West Frisia, the present North Holland, embracing

Horn, Enkhuizen, and Medemblik, which became early subject to the

counts of Holland ; the second, the district east of the Flie between

Stavoren and Leeuwarden, including Westergo ; the third, Ostergo — the

east half of the present province of Friesland, between the Borne and th^

Lauwers ; the fourth, Drenthe, which became subject to the bishops of

Utrecht, and the south western part of the present province of Friesland ;

the fifth included the district about Groningen between the Lauwers and

the Ems ; the sixth, the country along the coast between the Weser and

the Elbe; the seventh, the country of the Rustringers and the land to the

north of the Elbe, possibly extending to the Eider and including the

Strand or North Frisians. The map of Alting is his Notitia Germaniae

Inferioris Antiquae, 1698 A. D., differs greatly from this account.

==========

.

Edited by Abramelin

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According to the OLB the Gauls/Golar originated in the Golan Hights.

All the OLB had to offer was wordplay to prove it's point.

I can do a similar thing...

Gjallar is the horn of Heimðallr (Heimdallr) who guards the portal of the world of the Germanic gods.

Gjallar > Golar > Gauls = (to) Call >>> a rooster crowing/calling in the morning as symbol for the Gauls, and also as protection.

2009107_France10Francs1952RoosterRev.jpg

Norse mythology, Gjallarhorn (Old Norse "Calling horn"[1]) is the horn with which the gatekeeper god, Heimdallr, announces Ragnarök

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjallarhorn

http://home.tiscali.nl/gjallar/Sagen.html

http://www.gjallar.nl/

If you believe the OLB etymology makes sense, than mine should make sense too.

--

EDIT:

This - and only this post of today - is proof of Otharus being right about me being drunk.

-

So, ignore this post if you prefer, but do not ignore what I posted before during this day.

.

81947~Detail-of-a-Corinthian-Vase-Showing-a-Hoplite-Battle-circa-600-BC-Posters.jpg

That won't show, but here's the Google page it can be seen at... http://www.google.com.au/images?q=greek+hoplite+rooster+shield&hl=en&rlz=1T4ADSA_enAU375AU375&prmd=iv&source=lnms&tbs=isch:1&ei=h2vgTKPREoHRcZW6hZkM&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&ved=0CBEQ_AU&biw=1579&bih=664

Greek shield with rooster, I first noticed them in a book on Ancient Greece I got from the library.

Gotta say, the red waving plumes of the Doric helmets tend to look like a rooster comb.

In ancient Roman religion, the Galli were the eunuch priests of the Phrygian goddess Cybele. The chief of these priests was referred to as a battakes, and later as the archigallus. The Galli were castrated voluntarily, typically during an ecstatic celebration called Dies Sanguinis, or Day of Blood, which took place on March 24.

Cybele's Galli were similar in form to other colleges of priests in Asia Minor that ancient authors described as "eunuchs", such as the priests of Atargatis described by Apuleius and Lucian, or the galloi of the temple of Artemis at Ephesus.

It has been suggested[by whom?] that this sect was named after the first priest of Cybele, who was named Gallus. The name may also be derived from the Gallus river in Phrygia. One of the first temples to Cybele was built near this river, which led to a rumor that drinking from the Gallus would cause such madness that the drinker would castrate himself. Hieronymus believed the sect was named by the Romans because many of the priests were Gauls who were castrated as punishment for the burning of Rome, but this was disputed because the Phrygians had no interest in sacking Rome[1] and Hieronymous had a strong anti-pagan and anti-Gallic bias, writing at the time of the sack of Rome by the Gauls in 390 BC, in support of the persecution of the Gauls and other pagans. (Other possible origins of the sect's name include the Sumerian Gallu, (from "Gal" = Great, "Lu" = Man) special servants of the Sumerian God Enki; gallus, which meant eunuch in Asia and Greece,[citation needed]; or galli, the plural of the Latin word for rooster.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galli

Edited by The Puzzler

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Hi Jesse, welcome to UM.

Well, as you may have read, several here have some doubts about the impact theory as put forward by Alewyn in his book about the OLB.

Anyway, something tells me that you should read the links in the opening post of the "The Nasca Code - Geometry and Connectivity at the Nasca Hydraulic Lines” thread, because the writer, luiscabrejo , seems to have similar ideas as you have.

Thanks ABramelin, I'll give them a whirl however if they are anything to do with aliens and flying saucers I'll be back pretty soon. Meanwhile has Wilkens been discussed on here... I don't seem to be able to find anything?

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Thanks ABramelin, I'll give them a whirl however if they are anything to do with aliens and flying saucers I'll be back pretty soon. Meanwhile has Wilkens been discussed on here... I don't seem to be able to find anything?

No Jesse, it's not about aliens. But you will see soon enough.

-

Yes, I mentioned Iman Wilkins a couple of times. And also several others with a similar theory as he has: Jean Deruelle, Sylvain Tristan, Guy Gervis, Théophile Cailleux and Charles-Joseph de Gra(e)ve...

http://www.nwepexplore.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%A9ophile_Cailleux

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Hello fellow wonderer's, thinkers and enthusiasts. My name is Jesse and for years I have had a keen interest in the ancient world and it's civilisations, particularly the Celts. A chance find of "Where Troy once stood" has, for me, settled so many worries I had with the accepted view of early European history that it has become indispensable to me.

I think I have read all the posts on UM about the OLB now but have yet to come up with anything fresh on the subject. At present I am trying to re-establish a link I had to a theory about tectonics and extraterrestrial impact which had some good logic about why plates seem to have moved at differing rates. Australia, India, Antarctica etc. as this may well be an aid to understanding more about that which is in the OLB. Any suggestions?

Hi flashbang Jesse, glad you joined us!

I teeter back and forth with Troy all the time.

Here's Shock Dynamics http://www.newgeology.us/ Not sure if you have seen it, same idea, impact created plates to spread fast and create the mountains etc much quicker. I think it offers some concepts that seem to make some sense for sure.

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So...........

The Galli can be bloodthirsty Phrygian priests, associated with Troy.

In charge of the Mother Goddess, the Mater Magna, mu, ma, Cybele, Rhea, the pivotal Mother.

The Phrygian connection is getting stronger.

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Hi flashbang Jesse, glad you joined us!

I teeter back and forth with Troy all the time.

Here's Shock Dynamics http://www.newgeology.us/ Not sure if you have seen it, same idea, impact created plates to spread fast and create the mountains etc much quicker. I think it offers some concepts that seem to make some sense for sure.

Hi OZ. I lived down under for 14yrs in Adelaide, well a place called seacliffe actually, that was from 1950 - 1964 and a lot has changed I see from google images. Thanks for the link it just so happens that that is the one I lost Doh! Regarding Imam: I find his book so logical that it's hard for me not to believe so with that in mind and the 1200bc goings on perhaps there is truth in what has been said on here.

It's a shame each generation has to relearn all that has passed. Have to go now but verily thanks for your replies. Jesse (Male)

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Aldland, Old Land

What would the OLB call the inhabitants of Aldland? Aldlanders? Aldlandar? Old-landers? Or in Dutch, Oudlanders?

Well, lo and behold, that's what Halbertma, aka Mister Fryslan, called the Frisians, as opposed to the immigrants from 'Holland'... 'oudlanders', veteris terrae incolas. as different from the 'bilkerts', immigrants from Holland (with their 'round faces and plump bodies')..

Here is the pdf I took it from:

Summary

Nineteenth century Europe saw the rise of cultural nationalism, in which the

cultural and scholarly output of the elite played an important role. Language

is one of the pillars of cultural nationalism. Consequently, dictionaries are

regarded as expressions of cultural nationalism. The minister and self-taught

linguist and lexicographer JoostHiddes Halbertsma (1789-1869) is consid-

ered as an exponent of cultural nationalism in Friesland (and the Nether-

lands). His magnum opus is the unfinished Lexicon Frisicum, posthumously

published by his son Tjalling in 1872. In the present article I discuss the

phenomenon of cultural nationalism and I try to establish if and how the Lexi-

con Frisicum fits into the pattern.

http://depot.knaw.nl/5278/1/Cultureel_Nationalisme.pdf

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I would herewith like to inform all participants of this forum that I cannot participate any further in this debate.

It came to my notice today that Abramelin is now including a highly offensive and, from a Christian viewpoint, blasphemous slogan with all his postings.

I do not expect people to agree with my religous convictions, but I thought we could at least respect each others right to such convictions.

Abramelin full well knows my religion and this time he has managed to silence me.

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I would herewith like to inform all participants of this forum that I cannot participate any further in this debate.

It came to my notice today that Abramelin is now including a highly offensive and, from a Christian viewpoint, blasphemous slogan with all his postings.

I do not expect people to agree with my religous convictions, but I thought we could at least respect each others right to such convictions.

Abramelin full well knows my religion and this time he has managed to silence me.

Well, I didn't know about your religion, but anyway, my new signature has already been removed even before I read your post.

But ok, if that is your excuse to not respond to some of my more challenging posts concerning the OLB, then so be it.

Btw, I have read a lot worse than what I used today as signature. And today is TWO days after your penultimate post...

(Anyone who wants to know about that signature, just send me a pm, and I will send the text to you. I found it by accident on a Christian forum, and although the moderator of course did not agree very much with the text - it was the signature of someone on that forum - he did find it hilarious nevertheless.)

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Edited by Abramelin

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Alewyn, no hard feelings..

But..

You accused me of shifting from one conviction to another, or to be clear: from suspect Haverschmidt to suspect Halbertsma (amongst all the others I mentioned).

But you did something similar: you first accepted being wrong about your claim that around 2200 BC an impact took place that shifted the earth's axis and caused lots of mayhem on this rock (your whole book is based on that), 'mayhem' that was described in the OLB. But soon after that you came back with some flimsy arguments to prove you were right after all.

Well, truth be told, I am now quite convinced I know who was behind the OLB: Joost Halbertsma.

I copied (typing with 2 fingers) a couple of pages from a chapter of Wim Zaal's, "De Verlakkers" ("The Swindlers" in English).

Together with his work, and what I found out about Joost Halbertsma myself, I think I can safely say the case is closed.

Don't worry, I will post that text with a translation in English soon, and also offer it to some sites about the OLB.

Just in case no one reads this thread... heh.

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Edited by Abramelin

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The King James Bible and the old 1933 Afrikaans Bible are both literal translations. Most of the newer translations such as the New American Standard Bible, the 1983 Afrikaans Bible, The Good News Bible, The New Living Translation, The New Century Version and others are all more "interpretive"(if that is the word) translations i.e. more "user friendly" or in the modern idiom. I believe the new Afrikaans Bible that are being updated at present will again be a more literal translation. I assume this is to prevent modern translators from wandering too far from the original text or meaning.

Perhaps you could check the older and newer Dutch translations for us.

I fully agree with you on getting somebody to give us a literal translation of this verse from the original Hebrew. I have been trying now for some time without success.

Yep, you were right about that translation:

Ezekiel Chapter 26 יְחֶזְקֵאל

17 And they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and say to thee: how art thou destroyed, that wast peopled from the seas, the renowned city, that wast strong in the sea, thou and thy inhabitants, that caused your terror to be on all that inhabit the earth!

יז וְנָשְׂאוּ עָלַיִךְ קִינָה, וְאָמְרוּ לָךְ, אֵיךְ אָבַדְתְּ, נוֹשֶׁבֶת מִיַּמִּים: הָעִיר הַהֻלָּלָה, אֲשֶׁר הָיְתָה חֲזָקָה בַיָּם הִיא וְיֹשְׁבֶיהָ, אֲשֶׁר-נָתְנוּ חִתִּיתָם, לְכָל-יוֹשְׁבֶיהָ.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1226.htm

But then this (about those 'seas'):

"Herodotus's account (written c. 440 BC) refers to the Io and Europa myths. (History, I:1).

According to the Persians best informed in history, the Phoenicians began the quarrel. These people, who had formerly dwelt on the shores of the Erythraean Sea, modern Yemen, having migrated to the Mediterranean and settled in the parts which they now inhabit, began at once, they say, to adventure on long voyages, freighting their vessels with the wares of Egypt and Assyria… "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia

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Edited by Abramelin

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Modern Yemen has been thrown into that Herodotus quote, he does NOT say that at all, he says Erythraean Sea, full stop.

Began AT ONCE. They had the ships already with them. They traded Assyrian and Egyptian wares straight off.

cormac informs me though that Phoenicians are indigenous to the area, all Canaanites, so where is the Erythraean Sea on the Levant?

In the OLB it actually mentions something I've long thought about.

Teunis and Inka are actually at Cadiz, an already established trading colony BEFORE they arrive at Tyre.

The Erythraean Sea could actually be the Western Ocean, since the island of Erythraea, as in the Red cows of Geryon, the red sunset, etc. Hera's Island of the apples is said (by Strabo I think) to be in the area of Gades also.

Think about it, the Phoenicians, pop up from some sea called Red, settle in Tyre and AT ONCE begin to make long sea voyages, straight to the opposide side of the ocean. Did they already know it was there?

Virgil has Aeneas landing in Carthage, with Dido there, a Tyrian, after the Trojan War, c. 1200BC apparently.

Carthage shows archaeology from c. 800BC. Cadiz from 1000BC of Phoenician influence.

How does Aeneas leave the Trojan war and arrive in a city that is non existant at the time by around 400 years?

Virgil made it up and got it wrong?

The Trojan War was later than we think?

Don't forget it's Virgil's work that gave Rome it's heritage from Romulus through the Latium people, where Aeneas lands, and gets it on with Lavinia. In Alba Longa.

Edit to add: The Aneid gives us an alternative, and possibly complementary meaning of the name Alban. The Trojans used to call themselves Albans while they were in Latium, giving the impression that their name had something in common with the giant called Albion who was killed by Hercules. It seems that Alban (Albion) must be a very ancient name.

http://www.annomundi.com/history/alban.htm

Alba - Alban - Albania - Illyria - from where the tribe called the Bruges is from - that became Phrygians. Also the area of Dardani - from where the tribe of Dardanus is from - to the Troad. All part of Thrace, all Pelasgians, all Trojans and allies.

According to the Library and Epitome of Apollodorus, Illyrius was the youngest son of Cadmus and Harmonia who eventually ruled Illyria and became the eponymous ancestor of the whole Illyrian people.

Cadmus and Harmonia eventually ruled Illyria and their son Illyrius became the ancestor of the whole Illyria people. How about that?

Cadmus the Phoenician was the ancestor through Illyrius of the Albanians.

-----------------------

An alternate genealogy is that Illyrius was the son of Polyphemus the Cyclops (son of Poseidon). All the sons of Polyphemus migrated from Sicily.

GreekMythologyChartCeltsGaulsIllyriansType.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrius

Edited by The Puzzler

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Hi OZ. I lived down under for 14yrs in Adelaide, well a place called seacliffe actually, that was from 1950 - 1964 and a lot has changed I see from google images. Thanks for the link it just so happens that that is the one I lost Doh! Regarding Imam: I find his book so logical that it's hard for me not to believe so with that in mind and the 1200bc goings on perhaps there is truth in what has been said on here.

It's a shame each generation has to relearn all that has passed. Have to go now but verily thanks for your replies. Jesse (Male)

Hey Jesse, what is your opinion on Troy, if you'd like to share, do you think it is in Turkey, or dated to the right time..?

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Hi Jesse, welcome to UM.

Well, as you may have read, several here have some doubts about the impact theory as put forward by Alewyn in his book about the OLB.

Anyway, something tells me that you should read the links in the opening post of the "The Nasca Code - Geometry and Connectivity at the Nasca Hydraulic Lines” thread, because the writer, luiscabrejo , seems to have similar ideas as you have.

Hello Abramelin and Jesse, I originally thought that Nasca's in Peru were measuring tectonics plates movement (2005), even though you can use the lines to match stars and measure movement for long periods of time such as earth precession, and centimeters per earthquake displacement, I found that Nasca were really using the lines for more immediate need, and it was merely agricultural and hydraulic needs.

Here a website http://www.cabrejo.com (there is an English translation somewhere in there) that you could visit to understand my findings.

Better explained here:

http://www.apexpetroleum.com.pe/wiki/index.php/Possibility_of_using_these_systems_-_Posibilidad_De_Uso_De_Estos_Sistemas

Best Regards

Luis

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Hey Jesse, what is your opinion on Troy, if you'd like to share, do you think it is in Turkey, or dated to the right time..?

Way off topic. Just wondering how and where to post. Any suggestions?

PS have written a reply but I've generalised so much it wouldn't fit anywhere apart from Off Topic area.

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Way off topic. Just wondering how and where to post. Any suggestions?

PS have written a reply but I've generalised so much it wouldn't fit anywhere apart from Off Topic area.

Sure, how about my own thread topic on Troy, you can find it here:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=189289&st=0&p=3553158entry3553158

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