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Still Waters

'Oldest' images of Christ's apostles found

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Art restorers in Italy have discovered what are believed to be the oldest paintings of some of Jesus Christ's apostles.

The faces of Apostles Andrew, John, Peter and Paul were uncovered using new laser technology in a catacomb in Rome.

The paintings date from the second half of the 4th Century or the early 5th Century, the restorers and Vatican officials believe.

The images may have influenced later depictions of Christ's early followers.

'Very emotional'

"These are the first images that we know of the faces of these four apostles," said Fabrizio Bisconti, head of archaeology for Rome's numerous Vatican-owned catacombs.

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So those pictures are from about 300 to 400 years after their deaths. They are not actual depictions of these men. Art wise these are highly significant, but historically not so much. Nice find though.

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They probably just looked like the typical guys of that race and time. I like that style of art, though. Thanks for the post.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/christ/physical_appearance.htm

The says, blurb under the picture says, "A computer generated image of how experts believe Jesus Christ may have looked, using a skull of a man buried in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago.

If this picture were hung in all the churches instead of the movie star image we usually see there, perhaps Christianity would be considered a foreign religion.

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So those pictures are from about 300 to 400 years after their deaths. They are not actual depictions of these men. Art wise these are highly significant, but historically not so much. Nice find though.

You beat me to it darn.. I wanted to write that :unsure2:

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Posted (edited)

Interesting fact is that the only apostle for which there are historical records is Paul, and some vague indications of his physical appearance do exist, including the fact that he probably had epilepsy (or some form of seizures).

None of the other apostles, or even Jesus himself, can be proven to have actually existed - which may explain the lack of physical description. A description of physical appearance is not necessary when you are writing a morality story about the need to focus on your spirit/soul rather than on material wealth and other worldly things.......

EDIT: I misspoke, Paul wasn't actually one of the 12 apostles, but came later. Thus none of 12 apostles can be verified to have actually existed (which is surprising as the Romans did keep pretty good records).

Edited by Horus Christos

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None of the other apostles, or even Jesus himself, can be proven to have actually existed - which may explain the lack of physical description. A description of physical appearance is not necessary when you are writing a morality story about the need to focus on your spirit/soul rather than on material wealth and other worldly things.......

That's a good point. Interesting tidbit I want to mention is the New Testament is a collective eyewitness accounts by four apostles. It's odd there's not a more physical description of Jesus by one of the Apostles, typically when they first met, for example.

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That's a good point. Interesting tidbit I want to mention is the New Testament is a collective eyewitness accounts by four apostles. It's odd there's not a more physical description of Jesus by one of the Apostles, typically when they first met, for example.

I just have trouble withj anything the catholic church from that time had a hand in. Its all about controlling people. The catholics of that time and the romans were looking to make people belive what they wanted them to.

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I agree kinda a who cares kinda thing

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I just have trouble withj anything the catholic church from that time had a hand in. Its all about controlling people. The catholics of that time and the romans were looking to make people belive what they wanted them to.

You can say that about every single religion out there. No need to pick just one.

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Posted (edited)

So, the Hagia Sofia in Turkey was built in 360... Aren't the icons there just as old if not older? And they STILL haven't uncovered all the icons and artwork there as much of it was plastered over by the mulims when it was turned into a mosque somewhere around 1450.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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So those pictures are from about 300 to 400 years after their deaths. They are not actual depictions of these men. Art wise these are highly significant, but historically not so much. Nice find though.

I had that same thought. I wish they would find a skeleton of one of these guys so that a forensic anthropologist could show us what he looked like in life. Every culture makes Jesus and his apostles look like members of their own culture (which is kind of nice in a way). Jesus would be pretty surprised if he could see all his portraits with blue eyes and blond hair... I wonder if Jesus had a sense of humor?

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The New Testament was written right around the same time period. What we know as Christianity today really doesn't have much to do with Christianity in the first century after Christ's death. Church leaders were still arguing about essential points of Christianity into the 4th Century and beyond.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

http://www.philosophyforum.net/Religion/Nicene_Creed%20_Ice.htm

This is a nice find for the world of art, but as realistic pictures of Jesus' disciples, not so much.

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You may be interested in this web site which contains Edgar Cayce's psychic vision of the Last Supper scene:

The Lord's Supper

Then down at the bottom there's a letter written by a Roman citizen that describes Jesus Christ's physical appearance. You can tell that this guy was fascinated with Christ. This description matches up with what Cayce said and also Leonardo Da Vinci's famous painting.

Cayce also said that Leonardo painted a picture of Mary Magdalene and somehow Leonardo captured what Mary Magdalene really looked like:

Mary Magdalene – Leonardo da Vinci

This is interesting because this painting was discovered sometime after Cayce made this statement. How Leonardo could have known what Mary Magdalene really looked like God only knows.

Cayce talks about these people in the book "Edgar Cayce's Story Of Jesus". He provided information which was not recorded in the bible:

Edgar Cayce's Story of Jesus [Paperback]

Cayce said Mary Magdalene had been involved with prostitution at some point and was a close friend or relative of Martha, Mary, and Lazarus who were friends of Christ.

Mary Magdalene was one of the brave few who stood at the foot of the cross during the crucifixion. This was a very dangerous thing to do. Being associated with Christ in any way was dangerous and some of His friends and followers, including Lazarus according to Cayce, paid with their lives. Lazarus was the cause for many people to believe because Christ had resurrected Lazarus from the grave.

The Cayce material about Jesus Christ is very strange because not only does he say what happened but he tells what those people were thinking and feeling. This is more than just historical information.

Cayce stated that he himself had been alive at that time as a guy by the name of Lucias who wrote the Acts Of The Apostles if I recall correctly. I know Cayce said he wrote the Acts Of The Apostles or at least parts of it.

Lucias had a disagreement with Paul about the marriage rules for deacons. Lucias was married as were some of the apostles.

I guess it was in those early years when the foundation was laid for the Church's rule that priests cannot get married.

Cayce stated that Joseph and Mary were members of a group called The Essenes which was a continuation of the school of prophets established by Jeremiah and Elijah. He felt that the Catholic Church is the religion that is most similar to the Essenes today.

Jeff Marzano

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Priests were not required to be celibate until the 11th century. The real problem was that they were passing church property down to their descendants and this was causing difficulties in the church.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm

Although we do not find in the New Testament any indication of celibacy being made compulsory either upon the Apostles or those whom they ordained, we have ample warrant in the language of Our Saviour, and of St. Paul for looking upon virginity as the higher call, and by inference, as the condition befitting those who are set apart for the work of the ministry.

LOL, of course this is what the Catholic church would say.

http://www.futurechurch.org/fpm/history.htm

580-Pope Pelagius II: his policy was not to bother married priests as long as they did not hand over church property to wives or children.

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Wouldn't you just love to see what the Vatican has in its archives?

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Wouldn't you just love to see what the Vatican has in its archives?

I imagine there is some pretty crazy stuff. It would incredible to be able to go thru it.

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