'Secret messages' hidden in Plato's ancient

[Druidus-Logos]

...Not literally audible. To the human ear that is but the point remains that the Universe is a complex series of vibrations that give form and structure to everything.

No, the universe is a series of collapsed probability waves. You cannot possibly hear the sounds of these vibrating waves, nor could you really simulate it because it doesn't work on our scale of matter.

I'm not saying the idea isn't interesting, I'd just have to see a little more to understand why it even matters. I can listen to the resonance of the Earth in the Schumann Resonance, but it's not doing anything for me to do so. Listening, therefore, to the vibrations of the Earth, the music of the Earth, does me no good (except a ringing headache after 20 mins).

Also, I think we are woefully incapable of collecting the information of vibration of every body of mass, every planet, every moon and asteroid, the sun, particles of matter, all atoms, photons, electrons, protons, neutrons and even subatomic particles, and then simulating it as Music of the Universe. Even if we could, it would be a cacaphony.

[Salami Swami]

I think most if not all members here will want to know what the secret code in Plato's Atlantis story will tell us.

Maybe an ancient Greek joke??

Yeah, atlantis fans will go nuts.

[StarLord]

Musica universalis (lit. universal music, or music of the spheres) is an ancient philosophical concept that regards proportions in the movements of celestial bodies—the Sun, Moon, and planets—as a form of musica (the Medieval Latin name for music). This 'music' is not literally audible, but a harmonic and/or mathematical and/or religious concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musica_universalis

...Not literally audible. To the human ear that is but the point remains that the Universe is a complex series of vibrations that give form and structure to everything.

The institute was comprised of three orders. The outer order was called the 'akoustici', who lived in their own houses only coming to the institute during the day. They were allowed their own possessions and were not required to be vegetarians. Acceptance into this outer society was granted after a 3 year probationary period. Both men and women were permitted to become members of the order, in fact 28 women were admitted to the institute. The inner order of the society was called the 'mathematikoi', who lived permanently with the society, and had no personal possessions and were vegetarians. They were taught by Pythagoras himself and obeyed strict rules. The third level of initiation within the institute was the 'electi', who were instructed in the secret processes of psychic transmutation, how to heal with sound, and lived a strict discipline in accordance with the code of the Great Mystery Schools.

http://9waysmysteryschool.tripod.com/sacredsoundtools/id13.html

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/school%20of%20pythagoras.htm

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l2/emspectrum.html

Thanks for this SlimJim22!

Being a seeker of the this sort of vein, it is a treat to read something worth while. I'd be interested to find out what specific path Pythagoras was taught in India. To bad he missed Siddhartha...

[SlimJim22]

Thanks for this SlimJim22!

Being a seeker of the this sort of vein, it is a treat to read something worth while. I'd be interested to find out what specific path Pythagoras was taught in India. To bad he missed Siddhartha...

I'm not sure if he visited India but he could have studied with a brahmin or some other sage, perhaps persian. I think his father was a phoenician so he was able to travel a great deal and having an inquisitve nature was able to pick up along the way. The other possibility is the chaldeans, what we know about them for sure is speculative but there is a druid sect called the Culdees who claim descent from them. They practice pythagorean philosophy.

There's a chance that many of the reformers of the time were influenced or inspired by a similar group. Maybe it was the Nages or the Chaldeans but there are similarities between the works of Lao Tzu, Buddha, Pythagoras and even the druids. It's not the kind of thing that can be pinned down yet the flow of knowledge is unmistakeable imo.

[Abramelin]

Druid sect???

From Wiki:

Culdees were members of ascetic Christian monastic and eremitical communities of Ireland, Scotland and England in the Middle Ages. The name is probably an anglicised form of an Irish term, Céli Dé (plural of Céile Dé, lit. "client/companion of God"), Latinized to colae Dei, leading to Boece's culdei. In Scotland it was often written Kelidei. In Irish the term is used of St. John the Apostle, of a missioner from abroad recorded in the Annals of the Four Masters at the year 806, and of Óengus Céile Dé, the well-known monk and author of Tallaght.

The etymology of the term, the persons designated by it, their origin, their doctrines, the rule or rules under which they lived and the limits of their authority and privileges have all been matters of controversy. All admit, however, that, in the beginning at all events, the Culdees were separated from the mass of the faithful, that their lives were devoted to religion and that they lived in community. Appearing first in Ireland and subsequently in Scotland, attached to cathedral or collegiate churches, they lived in monastic fashion though not taking monastic vows.

[SlimJim22]

Druid sect???

From Wiki:

Culdees were members of ascetic Christian monastic and eremitical communities of Ireland, Scotland and England in the Middle Ages. The name is probably an anglicised form of an Irish term, Céli Dé (plural of Céile Dé, lit. "client/companion of God"), Latinized to colae Dei, leading to Boece's culdei. In Scotland it was often written Kelidei. In Irish the term is used of St. John the Apostle, of a missioner from abroad recorded in the Annals of the Four Masters at the year 806, and of Óengus Céile Dé, the well-known monk and author of Tallaght.

The etymology of the term, the persons designated by it, their origin, their doctrines, the rule or rules under which they lived and the limits of their authority and privileges have all been matters of controversy. All admit, however, that, in the beginning at all events, the Culdees were separated from the mass of the faithful, that their lives were devoted to religion and that they lived in community. Appearing first in Ireland and subsequently in Scotland, attached to cathedral or collegiate churches, they lived in monastic fashion though not taking monastic vows.

You must think I make this stuff up... I wouldn't do that.

The Ancient Order of the Culdees of Iona traces its roots to three elements, the Chaldean Magi, the Druids and Pythagoras of Samos. Pythagoras was initiated into the mysteries of the Chaldean Magi by the Magi Zaratas while Pythagoras was in Babylon. Pythagoras was also influenced by Celtic Druidry through his friend Abaris, a Druid from a place in Northern Europe the Greeks called Hyperborea. Pythagoras synthesized these traditions, along with others like Orphism, into a system for achieving Theosis.

Generations later Plato, who was initiated into the Pythagorean tradition in Italy, put much of the Pythagorean tradition into writing and continued the dissemination of Pythagorean ideas.

The tradition waned somewhat in the centuries after Plato, but was revived in the early part of the current era and was known by terms like Pythagoreanism and Neo-Pythagoreanism, Middle-Platonism and Neo-Platonism. Both Greeks and Jews synthesized the tradition. It was taught by the Rabbi Philo of Alexandria who "synthesized Stoic and Platonic philosophy with Jewish scripture largely through allegorical interpretation of the Septuagint. Philo argued that God was beyond all being, and brought the cosmos into being first through a purely intellectual act of will, and then, via his Logos (word), the physical cosmos was brought forth, thus according the Logos a role comparable to that of Plato's World-Soul." ¹ The tradition was also taught by Greek teachers such as Iamblichus, Porphyry, and Hierocles the head of the Platonic Academy in Alexandria.

Tradition says that Jesus, after being sent to Alexandria by the Chaldean Magi, was given training in all the various religious traditions that Alexandria had to offer, especially Magism and Pythagoreanism.

Joseph of Arimethea and the apostle John later brought the Pythagorean teachings of Jesus to Britain. After these, "Christian" teachings were brought to Britain, the Bard Taliesen is said to have stated, "Christ, the Word from the beginning, was from the beginning our teacher, and we never lost His teaching. Christianity was a new thing in Asia, but there never was a time when the Druids of Britain held not its doctrines.

http://www.fourfoldpath.org/

If you or anyone checks out the site, notice the similarities with eastern thought particularly buddhism. Here is another link discussing the secret serpent religion that may have influenced ancient philosophy and religions.

http://gblt.webs.com/Druids.htm

[Abramelin]

You must think I make this stuff up... I wouldn't do that.

The Ancient Order of the Culdees of Iona traces its roots to three elements, the Chaldean Magi, the Druids and Pythagoras of Samos. Pythagoras was initiated into the mysteries of the Chaldean Magi by the Magi Zaratas while Pythagoras was in Babylon. Pythagoras was also influenced by Celtic Druidry through his friend Abaris, a Druid from a place in Northern Europe the Greeks called Hyperborea. Pythagoras synthesized these traditions, along with others like Orphism, into a system for achieving Theosis.

Generations later Plato, who was initiated into the Pythagorean tradition in Italy, put much of the Pythagorean tradition into writing and continued the dissemination of Pythagorean ideas.

The tradition waned somewhat in the centuries after Plato, but was revived in the early part of the current era and was known by terms like Pythagoreanism and Neo-Pythagoreanism, Middle-Platonism and Neo-Platonism. Both Greeks and Jews synthesized the tradition. It was taught by the Rabbi Philo of Alexandria who "synthesized Stoic and Platonic philosophy with Jewish scripture largely through allegorical interpretation of the Septuagint. Philo argued that God was beyond all being, and brought the cosmos into being first through a purely intellectual act of will, and then, via his Logos (word), the physical cosmos was brought forth, thus according the Logos a role comparable to that of Plato's World-Soul." ¹ The tradition was also taught by Greek teachers such as Iamblichus, Porphyry, and Hierocles the head of the Platonic Academy in Alexandria.

Tradition says that Jesus, after being sent to Alexandria by the Chaldean Magi, was given training in all the various religious traditions that Alexandria had to offer, especially Magism and Pythagoreanism.

Joseph of Arimethea and the apostle John later brought the Pythagorean teachings of Jesus to Britain. After these, "Christian" teachings were brought to Britain, the Bard Taliesen is said to have stated, "Christ, the Word from the beginning, was from the beginning our teacher, and we never lost His teaching. Christianity was a new thing in Asia, but there never was a time when the Druids of Britain held not its doctrines.

http://www.fourfoldpath.org/

If you or anyone checks out the site, notice the similarities with eastern thought particularly buddhism. Here is another link discussing the secret serpent religion that may have influenced ancient philosophy and religions.

http://gblt.webs.com/Druids.htm

I am not saying you are making it up, but you use a site that portrays a group of new-age people who just adopted an ancient name.

I can start a group called Troglodites, and tell everyone that our goal is to make the best kites in the world.

Now does that mean the original troglodites made kites as hobby?

And these are the first words on that second site you linked to:

"After Hyperborea sank..."

That's always the moment I close the window, and continue looking for anything more serious, lol.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Abramelin

[SlimJim22]

I am not saying you are making it up, but you use a site that portrays a group of new-age people who just adopted an ancient name.

I can start a group called Troglodites, and tell everyone that our goal is to make the best kites in the world.

Now does that mean the original troglodites made kites as hobby?

And these are the first words on that second site you linked to:

"After Hyperborea sank..."

That's always the moment I close the window, and continue looking for anything more serious, lol.

Yet Hyperborea is attested to exist by noteworthy poets such as Pindar. I am skeptical but I try not to write anything off. The wisdom coming out of that site was good and it is hard to ignore connections like Iona and Skye. There is a great mystery waiting to be uncovered or at least speculated upon. This thread seems to be a good starting point.

Ever heard of the Four Treasures?

In the Mythological Cycle of early Irish literature, the four treasures (or jewels) of the Tuatha Dé Danann are four magical items which the mythological Tuatha Dé Danann are supposed to have brought with them from the four island cities Murias, Falias, Gorias and Findias, when they arrived in Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Treasures

They are allegedly from the Four sacred island cities.

http://www.sundown.pair.com/SundownShores/Volume_VII/dirge.htm

Anyway I have happened upon this due, Egerton Sykes who is a major force in the Atlantis at Bimini group. Murias is a sacred location with 'healing waters' near to the Bimini site. Is this too far fetched or is this a chance there is something to it. It has always seemed strange why celtic myth would mention Brazil and Cuchulain (Kukulan) with them being so far away but is pre columbus contact really that inconceivable.

You must be wondering how I got to this from our original discussion. Well one translation of Culdee and Chaldea is Caldera, and this is linked to the cauldron, which was the treasure that cae from Murias. Am I doing your head in?

http://www.seachild.net/atlantology/fields/archaeo.html

The Quaternary is by analogy a temple which has one spire, two pillars, three steps and four gates.

Its symbol is the Pythagorean Tetraktys.

The spire, or aim, is Theosis and its symbol is the Monad, or point within the circle.

The pillars are initiation and revelation and their symbols are John the Baptist and John the Evangelist, because the professions of these two saints obviously allude to those two pillars.

The steps are Purgative, Illuminative and Unitive and their symbols are Faith, Hope and Charity.

The gates are, History, Ethics, Physics and Theology and their symbols are Earth, Water, Air and Fire. (Which are in turn symbolized by, the Lia Fáil, the Dagda's Cauldron, the Claíomh Solais, and the Spear Luin.)

The Gates, or elements, of the Quaternary are described by John Scotus Eriugena in his homily called Voice of the Eagle as, "a certain intelligible world, constituted of its four parts, its four elements. Whose earth, as it were, in the midst, at the lowest point, like a center, is history. Surrounding it, like the waters, is the abyss of moral understanding, that the Greeks are wont to call Ethike. And in this intelligible world, around these two, as it were, lower parts, that I have called history and ethics, floats what I call natural knowledge or knowledge of nature, that the Greeks called physike. Rolled around, outside and beyond all, is the celestial and burning fire of the empyrean heaven, that sublime contemplation that the Greeks named "theology," beyond which no intelligence passes."

http://www.fourfoldpath.org/pita.htm

This is the site I meant as a source for what I was saying. The other was an additional one on the more speculative parts. Such as connecting the Nagas of Indian with the adders (druids). Ever seen an adder? One mean looking snake.

[Abramelin]

Yet Hyperborea is attested to exist by noteworthy poets such as Pindar. I am skeptical but I try not to write anything off. The wisdom coming out of that site was good and it is hard to ignore connections like Iona and Skye. There is a great mystery waiting to be uncovered or at least speculated upon. This thread seems to be a good starting point.

Ever heard of the Four Treasures?

In the Mythological Cycle of early Irish literature, the four treasures (or jewels) of the Tuatha Dé Danann are four magical items which the mythological Tuatha Dé Danann are supposed to have brought with them from the four island cities Murias, Falias, Gorias and Findias, when they arrived in Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia..../Four_Treasures

They are allegedly from the Four sacred island cities.

http://www.sundown.p...e_VII/dirge.htm

Anyway I have happened upon this due, Egerton Sykes who is a major force in the Atlantis at Bimini group. Murias is a sacred location with 'healing waters' near to the Bimini site. Is this too far fetched or is this a chance there is something to it. It has always seemed strange why celtic myth would mention Brazil and Cuchulain (Kukulan) with them being so far away but is pre columbus contact really that inconceivable.

You must be wondering how I got to this from our original discussion. Well one translation of Culdee and Chaldea is Caldera, and this is linked to the cauldron, which was the treasure that cae from Murias. Am I doing your head in?

http://www.seachild....ds/archaeo.html

The Quaternary is by analogy a temple which has one spire, two pillars, three steps and four gates.

Its symbol is the Pythagorean Tetraktys.

The spire, or aim, is Theosis and its symbol is the Monad, or point within the circle.

The pillars are initiation and revelation and their symbols are John the Baptist and John the Evangelist, because the professions of these two saints obviously allude to those two pillars.

The steps are Purgative, Illuminative and Unitive and their symbols are Faith, Hope and Charity.

The gates are, History, Ethics, Physics and Theology and their symbols are Earth, Water, Air and Fire. (Which are in turn symbolized by, the Lia Fáil, the Dagda's Cauldron, the Claíomh Solais, and the Spear Luin.)

The Gates, or elements, of the Quaternary are described by John Scotus Eriugena in his homily called Voice of the Eagle as, "a certain intelligible world, constituted of its four parts, its four elements. Whose earth, as it were, in the midst, at the lowest point, like a center, is history. Surrounding it, like the waters, is the abyss of moral understanding, that the Greeks are wont to call Ethike. And in this intelligible world, around these two, as it were, lower parts, that I have called history and ethics, floats what I call natural knowledge or knowledge of nature, that the Greeks called physike. Rolled around, outside and beyond all, is the celestial and burning fire of the empyrean heaven, that sublime contemplation that the Greeks named "theology," beyond which no intelligence passes."

http://www.fourfoldpath.org/pita.htm

This is the site I meant as a source for what I was saying. The other was an additional one on the more speculative parts. Such as connecting the Nagas of Indian with the adders (druids). Ever seen an adder? One mean looking snake.

Pindar talked about the existence of Hyperborea, yes. Did he also say it went under? No.

The Tuatha De Danann come to Ireland from the north, not from the other side of the Atlantic (Bimini or Brasil).

.

Brazil, also known as Hy-Brazil or several other variants, is a phantom island which features in many Irish myths. It was said to be cloaked in mist, except for one day each seven years, when it became visible but could still not be reached. It probably has similar roots to St. Brendan's Island. The names Brazil and Hy-Brazil are thought to come from the Irish Uí Breasail (meaning "descendants (i.e., clan) of Breasal"), one of the ancient clans of northeastern Ireland. cf. Old Irish: Í: island; bres: beauty, worth; great, mighty

Wiki link

Cuchulain is not pronounced like Kukulcan ( a mythical hero of Meso America), to which you seem to hint at. It's pronounced "koo-chull-in".

=

Yes, I already understood from what site you got your info, and it's the new-age site I mentioned.

-

No, you are not doing my head in, but I think you are on that path yourself, lol. You connect everything with everything, and the only 'glue' you use is a slight resemblence between names. That's what many of those new-age sites do: they use vague resemblences between names, vague resemblences between philosophies, add a myth or two no one has ever heard of or an existing myth distorted beyond recognition, then say that it has always been 'secret knowledge' (so any criticism is nothing but ignorance), and voila.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Abramelin

[SlimJim22]

Pindar talked about the existence of Hyperborea, yes. Did he also say it went under? No.

The Tuatha De Danann come to Ireland from the north, not from the other side of the Atlantic (Bimini or Brasil).

.

Brazil, also known as Hy-Brazil or several other variants, is a phantom island which features in many Irish myths. It was said to be cloaked in mist, except for one day each seven years, when it became visible but could still not be reached. It probably has similar roots to St. Brendan's Island. The names Brazil and Hy-Brazil are thought to come from the Irish Uí Breasail (meaning "descendants (i.e., clan) of Breasal"), one of the ancient clans of northeastern Ireland. cf. Old Irish: Í: island; bres: beauty, worth; great, mighty

Wiki link

Cuchulain is not pronounced like Kukulcan ( a mythical hero of Meso America), to which you seem to hint at. It's pronounced "koo-chull-in".

=

Yes, I already understood from what site you got your info, and it's the new-age site I mentioned.

-

No, you are not doing my head in, but I think you are on that path yourself, lol. You connect everything with everything, and the only 'glue' you use is a slight resemblence between names. That's what many of those new-age sites do: they use vague resemblences between names, vague resemblences between philosophies, add a myth or two no one has ever heard of or an existing myth distorted beyond recognition, then say that it has always been 'secret knowledge' (so any criticism is nothing but ignorance), and voila.

All criticisms are good and I understand huge leaps of faith are required to reach my conclusions. Then again they are not conclusions but merely suggestions right now. The new-age is becoming a catch all term it seems, the fourfoldpath site is more about Pythagorean and neo-platonic thought than anything to do with new-age by my reckoning but I'm often wrong.

The Tuatha come from the East but my thoughts are that they were one of a migrating group of the remnant of the matriarchal Danu river folk people. It is possible, though admittedly not likely that there was a related tribe of river folk in the America's and this is what Murias refers to. Now there could be two others in the north and south if we trust myth but I don't want to say more than this is one possibility.

To develop the theory further I'd say that a form of shamanism or quietism is what connects the cultures rather than words. So, yes it is a philosophy but there is a chance that there is no physical link of contact but in an astral way is how the similarities arise. Read the story of Cuchalain and compare it to some shamanic stories from Mesoamerica, it is not his first name but one given with an encounter with a dog. This is something found globally related to shamanism.

Another similarity between celtic, nordic and the indigenous peoples of the America's is the 'trickster' character. In native american myth it is the coyote in the nordic culture it was Loki and has been played by hares, ravens or any old fool. Remember also that within the mystery traditions there is the language of the birds. It has other names but what it basically means is that the truth is not on the surface but must be sought from reading into deeper meanings of symbols.

Much of what we know of drudism comes from the romans and what we know of the Mayans and Aztecs comes from the spanish and much of the thriving native american culture comes from colonists. We can only believe the sources up to a point and much of the rest must be gained from surviving myth and folklore.

There is much evidence to suggest that early peoples were more comfortable living near coasts and rivers so any sudden change in climatic conditions will catch out the coast dwellers first. Hyperborea could be the Black sea region or somwhere more Arctic but it doesn't really matter it was a pre diluvian civilization that suffered, maybe not sunk but could have been frozen.

Now something I have been reading is from Hapgood, oh here goes your thinking. My point is what brought on the end of the Ice age. Atlantis sank or was destroyed the same sort of time but Hapgood puts forth the theory that it was the destruction of Atlantis that allowed the Gulf Stream to reach Europe and melt the glaciers. Can you tell me if this is down right false or if there is any merit in it? I better leave it there for now but I am leaning back towards an Atlantic Ocean - Atlantis.

Always a pleasure discussing with your goodself Abe, my patience and imagination are almost infinite so ignore what you like with me and take me to school where necessary, providing you have the time and the motivation.

[Abramelin]

-1-All criticisms are good and I understand huge leaps of faith are required to reach my conclusions. Then again they are not conclusions but merely suggestions right now. The new-age is becoming a catch all term it seems, the fourfoldpath site is more about Pythagorean and neo-platonic thought than anything to do with new-age by my reckoning but I'm often wrong.

-2-The Tuatha come from the East but my thoughts are that they were one of a migrating group of the remnant of the matriarchal Danu river folk people. It is possible, though admittedly not likely that there was a related tribe of river folk in the America's and this is what Murias refers to. Now there could be two others in the north and south if we trust myth but I don't want to say more than this is one possibility.

-3-To develop the theory further I'd say that a form of shamanism or quietism is what connects the cultures rather than words. So, yes it is a philosophy but there is a chance that there is no physical link of contact but in an astral way is how the similarities arise. Read the story of Cuchalain and compare it to some shamanic stories from Mesoamerica, it is not his first name but one given with an encounter with a dog. This is something found globally related to shamanism.

-4-Another similarity between celtic, nordic and the indigenous peoples of the America's is the 'trickster' character. In native american myth it is the coyote in the nordic culture it was Loki and has been played by hares, ravens or any old fool. Remember also that within the mystery traditions there is the language of the birds. It has other names but what it basically means is that the truth is not on the surface but must be sought from reading into deeper meanings of symbols.

-5-Much of what we know of drudism comes from the romans and what we know of the Mayans and Aztecs comes from the spanish and much of the thriving native american culture comes from colonists. We can only believe the sources up to a point and much of the rest must be gained from surviving myth and folklore.

-6-There is much evidence to suggest that early peoples were more comfortable living near coasts and rivers so any sudden change in climatic conditions will catch out the coast dwellers first. Hyperborea could be the Black sea region or somwhere more Arctic but it doesn't really matter it was a pre diluvian civilization that suffered, maybe not sunk but could have been frozen.

-7-Now something I have been reading is from Hapgood, oh here goes your thinking. My point is what brought on the end of the Ice age. Atlantis sank or was destroyed the same sort of time but Hapgood puts forth the theory that it was the destruction of Atlantis that allowed the Gulf Stream to reach Europe and melt the glaciers. Can you tell me if this is down right false or if there is any merit in it? I better leave it there for now but I am leaning back towards an Atlantic Ocean - Atlantis.

-8-Always a pleasure discussing with your goodself Abe, my patience and imagination are almost infinite so ignore what you like with me and take me to school where necessary, providing you have the time and the motivation.

====

-1- New age is anything pretending to continue an ages old tradition. Most of the times it's based on wrong information and wishfull (and romantic) thinking.

-2-The Lebhar Gebhala says they came (cloaked in clouds) from the north.

-3- Many ancient stories and philiosphies the world over are based on shamansism, so no doubt there will be similarities. It's like saying there are similarities in how people treated their kids.

-4-See -3-

-5-These are indeed the only sources, and all the extras that's being cooked up now is just wishfull thinking by people who love to be special, like being the only inheritors of secret, hidden knowledge. I don't buy it.

-6-Peope always loved living near coasts, that is no secret. Who prefers living in high mountains?? Those that got chased away, or those who have no other option (no coasts around).

Hyperborea was a mythical country near the North Pole (daylight for 24 hours, night for 24 hours), and something of a paradise. If you know of a paradise country like that in that area, please let me know.

-7-Hapgood said a lot more than that, and he was proven wrong.

If Atlantis existed in the north of the Atlantic, then yes, it could have blocked the Gulf Stream. But up to now no proof has been found of a submerged continent in the North Altantic responsible for blocking the Gulf Stream.

People have tried to explain the end of the last ice age with comet impacts, or a re-shuffling of the continents, and whatnot.

Maybe it;s nothing but a boring climate cycle (Milankovitch/ sea currents/you name it) . But yes, I do understand, that's not what many people want to hear.

-8- I do my best to inform you of what I am convinced of is true. I may be wrong, but that's no problem for me.

I am one to have some weird ideas and assumptions myself, but I have no problems when someone wakes me up with good reasoning (and that's not necessarily by scientifically inclined people, heh).

Edited July 3, 2010 by Abramelin

[SlimJim22]

Cheers for the critique. I can't help being drawn towards certain things but I do try and draw a line between what is known from proof and what can only be speculated upon. The problem is that archeology can only ever reveal a fragment of the past as so many other materials degrade much faster than stone and metal. We know only so much about ancient funerary rites and the world is too big a place to regularly encounter amazing finds I guess, I would like them to dig deeper occasionally and look at more ancient times. What am I on about? - I don't know how archeology works, I'm sure they do a very good job.

However, there is just enough scope for me to enetrtain my more fantastical thoughts and parallels in religion, mysticism and shamanic symbols are my favourite. You work with what you have at the end of the day and not being blessed with a scientifc mind, I shall stick with conjecture and see if I happen upon anything of value.

Here's a decent link that touches on many of the connections I've been alluded to.

http://hans.wyrdweb.eu/about-origins-ancient-civilization-egypt/

And another that's not too bad.

http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/fordoor.html

An interesting article on the transmigration of music and the troubadors.

http://www.artship.org/Transmig.htm

Really good article on the OP. Hopefully I have moved gradually towards the topic at hand.

[Abramelin]

Cheers for the critique. I can't help being drawn towards certain things but I do try and draw a line between what is known from proof and what can only be speculated upon. The problem is that archeology can only ever reveal a fragment of the past as so many other materials degrade much faster than stone and metal. We know only so much about ancient funerary rites and the world is too big a place to regularly encounter amazing finds I guess, I would like them to dig deeper occasionally and look at more ancient times. What am I on about? - I don't know how archeology works, I'm sure they do a very good job.

However, there is just enough scope for me to enetrtain my more fantastical thoughts and parallels in religion, mysticism and shamanic symbols are my favourite. You work with what you have at the end of the day and not being blessed with a scientifc mind, I shall stick with conjecture and see if I happen upon anything of value.

Here's a decent link that touches on many of the connections I've been alluded to.

http://hans.wyrdweb....lization-egypt/

And another that's not too bad.

http://www.endicott-...rm/fordoor.html

An interesting article on the transmigration of music and the troubadors.

http://www.artship.org/Transmig.htm

Really good article on the OP. Hopefully I have moved gradually towards the topic at hand.

Jim, I responded to your former post, point for point.

But now you just pull out another few rabbits from your high hat...

[SlimJim22]

Jim, I responded to your former post, point for point.

But now you just pull out another few rabbits from your high hat...

Indeed. I was descending down the rabbit hole in fact. I appreciated your point for point response but you sowed it up so well I did not think it warranted direct responses to each point from me. I understand my approach may be annoying but I have three windows open and am reading and trying to bring things together. i get lost myself sometimes but I do like to move the discussion along rather than get strung out. Also, I was only just realizing how much shamanism was getting away from topic. I do see shamanism as a form of alchemy so there is a link but it's tenuous at best. That hasn't stopped me before though.

Plato (Aflatun)

Olympiodorus already (at the end of the sixth century) considered Plato as an alchemist and Ibn al-Nadlm mentions him in the list of alchemists. Butrus al-Ilmlml mentions an alchemic device called, hammam Aflatun (Plato's bath). Among the books attributed to him by the Arabs we can mention the Summa Platonis of which we only have the Latin version. There is a commentary to this book - the Kitab al-Rawabi' - whose Arabic text was edited by Badawi and whose Latin translation is known by the name Liber quartorum. The contents of this work are mainly alchemic but it contains also information on geometry, physiology and astrology. The ancient authors cited are Plato, Aristotle, Ptolemy, Hipparchus, Proclus, the Sophists, Ostanes, Hermes, Asclepius and Hippocrates....

http://www.spirasolaris.ca/sbb4f.html

http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/264-Against-Archytas-How-the-West-Lost-Alchemy-or-Paranormal-Complimentary-Opposite-Harmonics.html

For me it was a combination of 11:11 and the Golden ratio (after seeing Pi) that got me reinterested in the mysteries and this may cloud my judgement. However, considering sacred geometry was something that occupied the minds of Pythagoras and his followers aswell as being found in various other places, I find it quite amazing. Particularly as to how the golden spiral could potentially relate to zero point energy, QM and shamanism. What it seems Plato was telling us was that the universe was ruled by mathematics and not gods. He needed to encode this in myth and allegory in order to save his own skin but gods existing in a mathematical framework is not ruled out it is just not the secret knowledge itself.

http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/264-Against-Archytas-How-the-West-Lost-Alchemy-or-Paranormal-Complimentary-Opposite-Harmonics.html

It is extremely difficult for the Western-trained thinker to understand that harmony is actually formless awareness, heard as the resolution of beats from inverse inference of natural overtone Number. In contrast to Plato and Euclid, the Pythagoreans taught that true understanding is formless – from Harmonia and that proper understanding of Number enables resonance with this formless awareness. Number resonates asymmetrically, independent of visual form, so that the string notes C to G, the Perfect 5th music interval, are the ratio 2:3 (or Yang in Taoism) and they resonate into G to C, the Perfect 4th music interval, as 3:4 (or Yin in Taoism). The ratio C to G as 2:3 continues to resonate into higher overtones so that all 12 notes of the octave are created. The process to measure these overtones is done through Number only, using inference as listening, with no need for space or string or substance or magnitude. The overtones do not stay as sound but continue in an asymmetrical resonance transducing through the full energy-mass spectrum.

Here’s a historical description of music as the basis for Pythagorean-Taoist shamanism. In fact the historical origin of music in China is equivalent to Pythagorean theory as noted by scholar J. A. Van Aalst, who also documents the important structural connection between the fourth/fifth and yin/yang relations:

http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com/2010/03/deep-disharmony-biomusic-conspiracy.html

[puridalan]

This is what I'm looking forward to finding out. Being that his Timaeus and Critias dialogues were the earliest source of Atlantis, this music-based secret code could be quite revealing.

That's what the people who used the language of sanskrit did..the scrolls were composed of 'musical' vibrations, of songs..this was highly powerful, because of the resonance of vibrations

[Abramelin]

That's what the people who used the language of sanskrit did..the scrolls were composed of 'musical' vibrations, of songs..this was highly powerful, because of the resonance of vibrations

Is that new-speak for, "Put the story in rhyme, then compose a catchy tune, and all that will give you a nice song that you will remember till the day you die" ??

.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Abramelin

[StarLord]

Is that new-speak for, "Put the story in rhyme, then compose a catchy tune, and all that will give you a nice song that you will remember till the day you die" ??

.

That's close, but not from what I have come across.

Early tradition of Indian Medicine, Ayurveda, had a specific section that dwelt with healing via sound produced by specific tones at a specific pitch at a specific meter produced specific results. One could say that part of the prescription being chanted by the healer in a specific way, would heal a specific organ of it's specific maladies. The theory was based on the idea that everything had associated with it a primal sound and was represented by the original pronunciation of the written character in Sanskrit.

As an overview, nothing more:

This 1-day Course is one of our 'Guest' Courses written by Su Hagan, whose 4-year study of Ayurvedic Medicine in Nepal has afforded her a deep understanding of Ayurvedic principles.

Described in the ancient texts as the rhythms and melodies of nature, the vibratory nature of sound and its healing qualities have long been a way of attuning with nature. Tuning forks, Tibetan singing bowls, ancient Indian and Inca vocal chants are all traditionally used to dissipate energy-blocks, balance the body's energies and still the mind.

The practical benefits of Sound-Therapy are that one's intuition and higher mental faculties become attuned. The Vedas state that creation arises from the first primordial sound, Aum, and that Aum itself belongs to the element of aether which is the origin of all the other elements. By calming and awakening the inner self through sound, a person can calm, harmonise and balance all the elements that are in his or her life.

This treatment lends itself beautifully as an addition to any of our other Ayurvedic treatments.

Everything in the Universe is vibrating. Entities, including ourselves, are not solid, but consist of molecules vibrating at different frequencies, depending on the combinations of material from which they are formed. Vibrating molecules produce a frequency that can be measured or converted into cycles per second (CPS) or Hertz (Hz). The human ear can hear between 20 - 22,000 CPS (Hz), so most of the frequencies of the objects in the world around us are either below (too dense) or above (too fine) our range of hearing (although this doesn't mean that they can't be sensed).

Organs, chakras and different areas of the body all 'sing different notes' that, when blended together, produce a symphony as unique as a fingerprint. In an ideal world we would all be in harmony and balance but, due to the constant bombardment of external and internal factors, we are often pulled 'out of tune' with our true song, thereby incurring dis-ease.

Sound-Therapy has been used for thousands of years in Ayurveda and is becoming an increasingly popular way of 're-tuning' mind, body and spirit. Sound is used to correct in-balances on all levels of being using a method known as 'sympathetic resonance and entrainment'. For example, if you took two tuning forks of the same note and held them close to each other and struck one of them, the other would begin to ring! The soundwaves from the struck tuning fork travel through the air and activate the other tuning fork resulting in a sympathetic resonance.

Sound-Therapy is used in the same way to re-train the chakras and energy systems of the body to sing the right note - often by playing the note the chakra needs. This can be done using ancient instruments, such as singing bowls from Nepal and Tibet, as well as modern instruments like the afore-mentioned tuning forks.

http://www.theseedinstitute.co.uk/AST.htm

Kind of like chanting AUM instead of Chuck or Peabody. Aum does a body good so they say.

[Lord Umbarger]

I think most if not all members here will want to know what the secret code in Plato's Atlantis story will tell us.

Maybe an ancient Greek joke??

That's a scary thought... those guys were perverts! LOL!

[Abramelin]

That's close, but not from what I have come across.

Early tradition of Indian Medicine, Ayurveda, had a specific section that dwelt with healing via sound produced by specific tones at a specific pitch at a specific meter produced specific results. One could say that part of the prescription being chanted by the healer in a specific way, would heal a specific organ of it's specific maladies. The theory was based on the idea that everything had associated with it a primal sound and was represented by the original pronunciation of the written character in Sanskrit.

As an overview, nothing more:

This 1-day Course is one of our 'Guest' Courses written by Su Hagan, whose 4-year study of Ayurvedic Medicine in Nepal has afforded her a deep understanding of Ayurvedic principles.

Described in the ancient texts as the rhythms and melodies of nature, the vibratory nature of sound and its healing qualities have long been a way of attuning with nature. Tuning forks, Tibetan singing bowls, ancient Indian and Inca vocal chants are all traditionally used to dissipate energy-blocks, balance the body's energies and still the mind.

The practical benefits of Sound-Therapy are that one's intuition and higher mental faculties become attuned. The Vedas state that creation arises from the first primordial sound, Aum, and that Aum itself belongs to the element of aether which is the origin of all the other elements. By calming and awakening the inner self through sound, a person can calm, harmonise and balance all the elements that are in his or her life.

This treatment lends itself beautifully as an addition to any of our other Ayurvedic treatments.

Everything in the Universe is vibrating. Entities, including ourselves, are not solid, but consist of molecules vibrating at different frequencies, depending on the combinations of material from which they are formed. Vibrating molecules produce a frequency that can be measured or converted into cycles per second (CPS) or Hertz (Hz). The human ear can hear between 20 - 22,000 CPS (Hz), so most of the frequencies of the objects in the world around us are either below (too dense) or above (too fine) our range of hearing (although this doesn't mean that they can't be sensed).

Organs, chakras and different areas of the body all 'sing different notes' that, when blended together, produce a symphony as unique as a fingerprint. In an ideal world we would all be in harmony and balance but, due to the constant bombardment of external and internal factors, we are often pulled 'out of tune' with our true song, thereby incurring dis-ease.

Sound-Therapy has been used for thousands of years in Ayurveda and is becoming an increasingly popular way of 're-tuning' mind, body and spirit. Sound is used to correct in-balances on all levels of being using a method known as 'sympathetic resonance and entrainment'. For example, if you took two tuning forks of the same note and held them close to each other and struck one of them, the other would begin to ring! The soundwaves from the struck tuning fork travel through the air and activate the other tuning fork resulting in a sympathetic resonance.

Sound-Therapy is used in the same way to re-train the chakras and energy systems of the body to sing the right note - often by playing the note the chakra needs. This can be done using ancient instruments, such as singing bowls from Nepal and Tibet, as well as modern instruments like the afore-mentioned tuning forks.

http://www.theseedinstitute.co.uk/AST.htm

Kind of like chanting AUM instead of Chuck or Peabody. Aum does a body good so they say.

I like it that many people here give me info on alternative energy and therapy, not knowing half of my 2500-3000 books are about hese topics.

I studied Traditional Chinese Medicine for 3 years (= 10 hours every weekend for may many thousands of dollars) and almost ended up in China to finish my study.

But that was 25 years ago, and I didn't go... my growing skepsis (and some other reasons) stopped me from going.

I do believe sound/music has an impact on the human psyche, but maybe that is caused by nothing but it being some sort of ancient 'language', like smell. It hit's home to some ancient core of our brains.

[TheSearcher]

I might be mistaken, but wasn't Hyperborea a greek myth to begin with?