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Kira

'Serious flaws' in Iraq intelligence

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Key intelligence used to justify war with Iraq has now been shown to be unreliable, the Butler Report says.

The 196 page report says MI6 did not check its sources well enough, and sometimes relied on third hand reports.

Bbc news

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Another cosy report finding, but even that can't hide that Blair's government deliberately exaggerated the intelligence they were receiving.

And technically speaking, deliberate exaggeration is lying.

The article says:

Mr Blair said he took "full responsibility" for any mistakes made, saying that they were in "good faith".

Another fib. Mr Blair never takes full responsibility for his actions.

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Exaggeration or not...Saddam is gone and we are winning the war on terror. Isn't that a good thing? rolleyes.gif

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Joc,exactly what makes you think we are winning the war on terror?

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I have to agree with Tess, what makes you think we are winning the war, when we are still losing the battles in Iraq. IE more people have died from terrorist bombings and attacks since bush declared the war over, than died during the official war.

Spain was another good example. terrorist helped decide an election there. Now the Homeland security folks are looking into the possibility of suspending elections here if the same thing happens. Who winning what?

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Posted (edited)

The world is not a safe or good place at the moment and it doesn`t look like getting any better. crying.gif

Edited by AztecInca

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The serious flaws I can see are those in bush and blairs minds.Hope bush doesn`t decide to go and implement that executive order and become a dictator otherwiae not only are people in america in trouble but the rest of us may wnat to watch our backs.

And I have to got to say that I think that "we" are losing the war on terror and the world is far less safe and secure than before Iraq was invaded. There seem to be far more extremists and terrorists than before the war in Iraq. sad.gif

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I agree with you 100% AztecInca......

I personally believe this "war" on terrorism is no different than taping a piece of paper on a wall at the mall that says "DO NOT WRITE ON THIS"......(if you don't understand my point,try taping a piece of paper on a mall wall that says that and see what happens)

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490. There has been significant controversy surrounding the reliability of Government statements about Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa. We have therefore studied this issue in detail.

493. In early 1999, Iraqi officials visited a number of African countries, including Niger. The visit was detected by intelligence, and some details were subsequently confirmed by Iraq. The purpose of the visit was not immediately known. But uranium ore accounts for almost three-quarters of Niger’s exports. Putting this together with past Iraqi purchases of uranium ore from Niger, the limitations faced by the Iraq regime on access to indigenous uranium ore and other evidence of Iraq seeking to restart its nuclear programme, the JIC judged that Iraqi purchase of uranium ore could have been the subject of discussions and noted in an assessment in December 2000 that:

. . . unconfirmed intelligence indicates Iraqi interest in acquiring uranium. [JIC, 1 December 2000]

494. There was further and separate intelligence that in 1999 the Iraqi regime had also made inquiries about the purchase of uranium ore in the Democratic Republic of Congo. In this case, there was some evidence that by 2002 an agreement for a sale had been reached.

495. During 2002, the UK received further intelligence from additional sources which identified the purpose of the visit to Niger as having been to negotiate the purchase of uranium ore, though there was disagreement as to whether a sale had been agreed and uranium shipped.

***

497. In preparing the dossier, the UK consulted the US. The CIA advised caution about any suggestion that Iraq had succeeded in acquiring uranium from Africa, but agreed that there was evidence that it had been sought.

498. The range of evidence described above underlay the relevant passage in the Prime Minister’s statement in the House of Commons on 24 September 2002 that: In addition, we know that Saddam has been trying to buy significant quantities of uranium from Africa,although we do not know whether he has been successful.

499. We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government’s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded.

By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa, was well-founded.

Butler Report

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Kell, lets watch this topic sink into oblivion, just like the Uranium/Radioactive material one i posted:)

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Posted (edited)

The serious flaws I can see are those in bush and blairs minds.Hope bush doesn`t decide to go and implement that executive order and become a dictator otherwiae not only are people in america in trouble but the rest of us may wnat to watch our backs.

Some people are already watching there backs. grin2.gif

Edited by Student&Alive

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Kell, lets watch this topic sink into oblivion, just like the Uranium/Radioactive material one i posted:)

So true. *sigh*

rolleyes.gif

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Well the wmd's have made a good job off "sinking into Oblivion".

Of course theres none there.

We may have supplied them 20years ago, but remember, we allowed him to use them against the Iranians and his own people, how can we expect there to be any left.

lol.

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Exaggeration or not...Saddam is gone and we are winning the war on terror. Isn't that a good thing? rolleyes.gif

I agree! I think we should get out of Iraq however. I mean, they don't want us there, so why be there anyways. Let them starve or destroy themselves. But the war on Terror is a good thing in General. I think we should focus on Al-Queda though. I mean they are who implimented 9-11, and they should pay. Just let Iraq rot, and go to Afganistan to find Osama and his crew.

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Exaggeration or not...Saddam is gone and we are winning the war on terror.  Isn't that a good thing? rolleyes.gif

I agree! I think we should get out of Iraq however. I mean, they don't want us there, so why be there anyways.

Wrong! The majority of Iraqis do want us there. They know what will happen if we leave... rolleyes.gif

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good old islamofascism!

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The serious flaws I can see are those in bush and blairs minds.Hope bush doesn`t decide to go and implement that executive order and become a dictator otherwiae not only are people in america in trouble but the rest of us may wnat to watch our backs.

And I have to got to say that I think that "we" are losing the war on terror and the world is far less safe and secure than before Iraq was invaded. There seem to be far more extremists and terrorists than before the war in Iraq.

Tess, StillCrazy, AztecInca,

We are winning the war on terror. We have decimated the Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan....the MAIN training center for terrorists. We have brought down an evil and Freedom hating regime in Iraq. We are fighting the terrorists on a turf other than our own. We haven't had a terrorist attack in this country since 9/11. You people just have to pull your heads out of the sandbox of media soundbites and newspaper stories and SEE with your own minds the truth. ohmy.gif

We have lost many soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. But far, far, far, FAR, less than what the neysayers were predicting we would lose in the opening war with Iraq. And remember what they said about Afghanistan? TIME magazine was quoting Rudyard Kipling who said that Afghanistan is where countries go to die!

Pessimism and Fear is what drives much of you peoples thinking. Actually it is what drives most peoples thinking. Wake up! w00t.gif

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Posted (edited)

StillCrazy...war can be a long and drawn out affair with lots of blood shed. We will be there for years. All you guys want is a quick fix. I think at the bottom of this is fear...fear, you will have to fight. And most of you bleeding heart liberals don't want to get your feet wet.

Edited by Babs

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You have no idea how patriotic i am about my country or what i would do to protect it.

Cant you see that criticisin an unjust war is just a patriotic as supportin it , in fact more so.

Perhaps i just believe that this war is so foolish that things will just get worse for MY country.

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Posted (edited)

It will be worse for your country, scissor, if 'we' go down. And that's what I'm saying, too... you guys don't want us to do things because it will eventually come around to you.

You're all going to have choose a side eventually.

Edited by Babs

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Posted (edited)

StillCrazy...war can be a long and drawn out affair with lots of blood shed. We will be there for years. All you guys want is a quick fix. I think at the bottom of this is fear...fear, you will have to fight. And most of you bleeding heart liberals don't want to get your feet wet.

Babs, first of all I'm a republican who regrets voting for Bush.

Second. I have no fear of serving my country. I already have. I have the scars and wheelchair to prove it. But my service was here in the US, and not with a gun.

Any war that is based on a false set of information/Intelligence failures etc, is an unjust war.

When I see an administration, that refuses to answer questions, hinders investigations and makes false claims I feel it is MY right and duty as an American citizen to question those that serve me. Lest you forget, elected leaders work for the people, not the other way around. It is my Duty to question their actions.

I know this war is going to be long and drawn out. I knew that before we invaded Iraq, because unlike Bush, I looked at all possible scenerios of what could happen.

The fact that we are in a middle-eastern country, creates problems in and of it's self. While we maintain it is not a religious war, there are those in the mid-east that want to make it one.

I refuse to follow any leader blindly. As an American I will exercise my right

to question and demand answers, as the U.S. Constitution says in the First Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.[/i]

Instead of blindy being critical of those who question and find fault, please feel free to use your constutional right and ask Bush why we went to war. See what you get from his minions.

Edited by stillcrazy

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Very well said, Stillcrazy.

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It will be worse for your country, scissor, if 'we' go down. And that's what I'm saying, too... you guys don't want us to do things because it will eventually come around to you.

You're all going to have choose a side eventually.

Ok babs enlighten me if you will.

How come after defeat in the first Iraqi war saddams evil regime remained in power?

why did we no do the guy then ?

sweet as a nut,he is history.

We I mean the west let him go why?

Now 10 years on we had to invade Iraq coz we we could not find bin laddin cmone babs be honest does it make sense?

Gaddafi is our pal now go figure.

Its all money at the end of the day am I right or am I right?

Young American and British soldiers are dying for ****all .

they should come home now.

For all its worth I believe that the USA is the UKs best friend.

God bless America thumbsup.gif

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And most of you bleeding heart liberals don't want to get your feet wet.

So Babs, when are you enlisting? If you would like I can give you a ride to your local recruiters office, I am certain that they would love to have your help.

StillCrazy has a valid point, even if it may differ from yours. You both have valid points.

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Posted (edited)

I find it interesting that those who don't agree with a war or paticular party's ideals are either branded Liberals, Communist, un-American or what have you. (Depends on party line)

So I am going to rant for a few moments.

Why is it that those that disagree with Bush, and now in light that the intelligence that he used was faulty, are liberals who are unwilling to go to war. I would be more than happy to DEFEND my country from any attack, external or INTERNAL.

Fluffybunny: I will have to agree and disagree with you on your post above.

Babs made no point other than to say I/we/us were unwilling to "Get my feet wet" in a war. That's not a point, it's a condemnation and accusation.

For those who feel we are winning the war on terrorism, I suggest that you look at Morocco, Pakistan and India. Morocco in particular. Prior to March of 03 we had the support of the world in fleshing out terrorist. But since we took unilateral action against Iraq, without solid evidence, terrorist recruiting has increased ten fold. And not just in Iraq and Iran. For every arrest we make, there are more than enough extremist to take the place of those imprisoned. The U.S. and the U.K. now have to contend with Islamic extremist recruiting in thier own countries. Any place that has a heavy concentration of Islamic fundamentalist is ripe for recruiting future terrorist.

When we went into Afganistan, we had the blessing of most of the world. We had good intel, backed by the Taliban's own addmission that Osama bin Laden was in country. We were justified in going after him, and since the taliban refused to cooperate and continued to hide bin Laden, they made themselves a fair target. Most of bin Laden's training camps were in Afganistan.

And my final point, I know Fluffybunny has served his country, so anything he post, I will always give it the utmost respect. If memory serves me correctly, Joc has served his country as well, and even if I don't always agree with him. I will give him the same respect. I served my country for twelve years as a Civilian trainer on military bases and federal facilities. And it cost me everything.

Edited by stillcrazy

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