The murder of Cheri Jo Bates

[puridalan]

I know this is going to sound weird, and I just got to this thread, and decided to read it because of the name. But in my own opinion I think that the attack was not one sole attacker but 2 possibly three people max. I also think that while there was a male involved, one of the main ones was a female that had past shoulder length hair straight and was near her age, I think this was again not one person that killed her but 2 people together possibly three at most, but likely from what I am seeing only 2. I find it interesting that I think this women did most of the actual stabbing, not the guy.

personally I'd be more worried about the woman I saw stabbing her. She again had past shoulder length hair, that looked black but on further inspection ws a dark brown, 5'6-7ish, 131 lb she had medium brown eyes,caucausion (not tan, but not uber pale), nose was very symetrically not pointed at all a smig wide, (maybe I should draw a picture lol) and a few freckles, was 'trim', small medium chest build, was wearing horizontal stripes with gray, black and white, with pants that I cannot make out, again she did most of the stabbing. I'd qualify her to be in her middle to late twenties when this occured.

Edited September 1, 2010 by puridalan

[WORKING CLASS AL]

I know this is going to sound weird, and I just got to this thread, and decided to read it because of the name. But in my own opinion I think that the attack was not one sole attacker but 2 possibly three people max. I also think that while there was a male involved, one of the main ones was a female that had past shoulder length hair straight and was near her age, I think this was again not one person that killed her but 2 people together possibly three at most, but likely from what I am seeing only 2. I find it interesting that I think this women did most of the actual stabbing, not the guy.

personally I'd be more worried about the woman I saw stabbing her. She again had past shoulder length hair, that looked black but on further inspection ws a dark brown, 5'6-7ish, 131 lb she had medium brown eyes,caucausion (not tan, but not uber pale), nose was very symetrically not pointed at all a smig wide, (maybe I should draw a picture lol) and a few freckles, was 'trim', small medium chest build, was wearing horizontal stripes with gray, black and white, with pants that I cannot make out, again she did most of the stabbing. I'd qualify her to be in her middle to late twenties when this occured.

Puridalan,

Hey any stuff you pickup is gonna perk up my attention....you know why!!! Anyway did you get a lot on the guy and is the lady you saw doing the stabbing still alive???

Thanks for chiming in!

Working Class AL

Edited September 2, 2010 by WORKING CLASS AL

[puridalan]

I believe that she was partially strangled, though still alive when the stabbing commensed. If looking on your computer screen to give you an idea, on the left side near the upper left corner the man was standing at the head of Cheri Jo. Cheri Jo at this point was on the ground face/stomach up, this is when the female attacker came via bottom south eastern section of the computer screen, at which one point she was standing at the victims feet, then when up to the victims waste and thats when she began to stab her, I got a lot of the stabs not directly to the heart but a lot of them on the sides of the abdominal cavity, also one random one near the neck. But I cannot tell if that was a cut or part of the stranglulation. The women was the one again who was doing all of the stabbing (or majority) while the male was at cheri's head a few feet just watching. I hope that explains, o by the way all of this took place near pavement, like a parking lot you'd almost think of by the way the gravel is toned, but it was near a lot of green, this part in particular had trees off somewhat near by, but immeditate near by was grass, and near the man via north was a patch that didn't have grass a good 2 feet I say where it was just dirt 2 by 1 ft. basically.

[puridalan]

Adding: I am attaching some pictures to reinact the scene for those we are visual, they are poor but explain what I mean, they will be in order.

1. Before Strangulation

2. During/after

3. After-stab

Edited September 2, 2010 by puridalan

[puridalan]

One more thing sorry!

4. Close up sketch of Female Murderer

5. Further Back picture

are attached. Thank you

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

I just wanted to say when i first read about the account on this thread, when i got to the part about the "timex watch", i felt sick to my stomach. Looking at Puri's pictures there, I felt pains in my stomach and something went on with her legs too because i felt a weakness growing through my legs, feeling useless and powerless. Not very nice at all.

[H.H. Holmes]

I went on to Google maps to locate the distance between the murder of Cheri Jo Bates and his first reported murders of Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday. The murder of Cheri Jo Bates was in Riverside, California, while the double murder was in Benicia, California. These two locations are located 435 miles away from eachother.

The distance between the first murders of the Zodiac (Jensen and Faraday) and the second murders (Mageau and Ferrin), which are located at Benicia, CA and Vallejo, CA respectively, is only 8.4 miles.

The distance between the third set of murders and the fourth, perhaps last set of murders, is 89.9 to 99.9 miles depending on what path you take.

Make what you want out of it, but I think that most of his murders probably were closer to the San Francisco Area, which doesn't really match with the murder of Cheri Jo Bates, although there is definitely a chance.

Edited September 2, 2010 by H.H. Holmes

[H.H. Holmes]

Okay, I put in all the destinations of the known Zodiac attacks and came up with this map. My link

[JonathanVonErich]

Thanks Puri, Al and Triple H for your posts, happy to see this topic is hot....I'm a little bit obsessed with the Zodiac Killer case since 2000, i was 15 years old and since then this case is very important to me....Me and Tom Voigt,webmaster of Zodiackiller.com, are sending each other many emails every year and next year i will try to go to one of their meeting in San Francisco...I live in Canada so this is gonna be complicated but hey, i want to do it....

Thanks for your post guys, the murder of Cheri Jo is one of the great unsolved murder and it's cool to see great people like you care about it....

[JonathanVonErich]

Hey ...JVE ,do you think he is dead by now???...figure maybe he in his 30 's or 40's at the time of the murders.

W.C. AL

Oh yeah, he's dead for sure....maybe he died in the early 70s, that will be a good explanation why the letters stopped....Arthur Leigh Allen, still good Zodiac suspect, died in 2002....Richard Gaikowski, good Zodiac suspect, died in 2004....I think Zodiac died in the 70s or 80s....A psychopath like him can't just stop killing, and a huge egomaniac like him can't just stop writing letters/taunting the police....This is what's so fascinating about this case....everything is a mystery....we knows nothing about the man who did the murders....hell, some people are saying he was wearing a wig at lake berryesa when he killed Cecelia Shepard, so maybe the police sketch was not good,we know nothing about this guy....and that's why the Zodiac case is so popular, everything is a mystery.

[JonathanVonErich]

By the way Here's a picture of the Killer's watch:

[thefirstman]

The only victims officially attributed to the Zodiac Killer are Cheri Jo Bates, 18, killed at Riverside City College. Betty Lou Jensen, 16 on a first date with David Faraday, 17 killed while trying to escape. Darlene Ferrin, 22, and Mike Mageau, 19. Mageau survived. Cecelia Shepard age 22 and Bryan Hartnell age 20 were tied and stabbed. Shepard died at the hospital. Hartnell survived. The last victim is Paul Stine age 29.

No one knows if the Zodiac is still alive. The original investigators have all retired.

My Link

Down the bottom of the page.

Edited September 2, 2010 by thefirstman

[JonathanVonErich]

No, Cheri Jo Bates is a POSSIBLE victim of the Zodiac

The only 5 known victims of the Zodiac are:

David Faraday

Betty Lou Jensen

Darlene Ferrin

Cecelia Shepard

Paul Stine

Cheri Jo was never confirmed as one of Zodiac's victim.

[WORKING CLASS AL]

Oh yeah, he's dead for sure....maybe he died in the early 70s, that will be a good explanation why the letters stopped....Arthur Leigh Allen, still good Zodiac suspect, died in 2002....Richard Gaikowski, good Zodiac suspect, died in 2004....I think Zodiac died in the 70s or 80s....A psychopath like him can't just stop killing, and a huge egomaniac like him can't just stop writing letters/taunting the police....This is what's so fascinating about this case....everything is a mystery....we knows nothing about the man who did the murders....hell, some people are saying he was wearing a wig at lake berryesa when he killed Cecelia Shepard, so maybe the police sketch was not good,we know nothing about this guy....and that's why the Zodiac case is so popular, everything is a mystery.

JVE,

Which of the two suspects do you think was more likely to be the ZODIAC. Yeah ,for whatever reason I have been interested for awhile too,coincedently my Airsoft Team gave me the call sign Zodiac ( never talked about...I was just the only tattooed /pierced guy on the team, so naturally I'mlikened to a serial killer...go figure?)

Later

W.C. AL

[WORKING CLASS AL]

I just wanted to say when i first read about the account on this thread, when i got to the part about the "timex watch", i felt sick to my stomach. Looking at Puri's pictures there, I felt pains in my stomach and something went on with her legs too because i felt a weakness growing through my legs, feeling useless and powerless. Not very nice at all.

Like I asked PURI.....how do you guys deal with getting the images or sensations? It seems like a gift and curse all at the same time.

Regards!

W.C. AL

[JonathanVonErich]

JVE,

Which of the two suspects do you think was more likely to be the ZODIAC. Yeah ,for whatever reason I have been interested for awhile too,coincedently my Airsoft Team gave me the call sign Zodiac ( never talked about...I was just the only tattooed /pierced guy on the team, so naturally I'mlikened to a serial killer...go figure?)

Later

W.C. AL

Hi Al

Always cool to share my opinions with you...Well i think a lot of interesting things link Arthur Leigh Allen to Zodiac and i know a lot of Zodiac investigators still think he was the killer, even if DNA tests made in 2002 said that he wasn't the man who wrote the letters. Allen was a very weird guy and a pedophile but i don't think he was the Zodiac. For a long time i tought he was but i don't anymore. I think Gaikowski is a better suspect. He looks like the police sketch and Nancy slover, the former Vallejo Police Dept. switchboard operator who spoke to Zodiac early in the morning of July 5, 1969, said that Gaikowski's voice was the same voice the Zodiac had. Gaikowski is dead so he can't defend himself but i think a lot of things link Gaikowski to Zodiac.

[JonathanVonErich]

Richard Gaikowski:

Zodiac Killer sketch:

[puridalan]

Hey,

From seeing that picture of the man, the man did have short black dark hair that was cut like that, that had a bit of gray peaking through, I did not see any glasses on the male though during that time while the female was stabbing, could of been a different guy, just struck my mind seeing as they had a very similiar haircut, except also when I saw it his hair was a bit shorter, more contained so to speak, no 'whisps' but same format, erm interesting, even the facial features are pretty much on. I canont tell since this picture is black and white, but what I was seeing the man had not oily skin persay, but it wasn't dry, I would say a tad more oily than the average bear, and his skin was way darker than the females tan complextion for sure and was not 'pale' or anything of the sort, at this time he also had 'holes' under his eyes. Pretty similiar match except withotu glasses.

[JonathanVonErich]

very interesting Puri....if you have more infos please share with us...

sadly the only pictures of Gaikowski at the time of the Zodiac murders are in black and white....maybe i'll ask Tom Voigt if he have more, he is the one who know more about Gaikowski....again, the woman, was she young like Cheri Jo(18 years old) or older ??

can you see that...?

[puridalan]

She was young, but she was older than Cherie she was mid twenties I would assume, looked younger than she was sort of thing until you got up closer to her face, clearly she was in her mid twenties, around there on second invesigation. (I Believe I mentioned her age in a former post). Also the guy was not tall, he was 'sturdy' but not overmuscley, though he did have muscles I didn't think of the hulk when I saw him, I thought very well grounded, and again no glasses with the same 'crew' cut sort of style and forehead as the person I saw, his skin hair was mostly dark black, but not like a werewolf or anything normal pattern. Again he had a very sturdy ratio when I see this guy lanky tall or short are two that don't come into mind, I think automatically medium build with slightly oily tanned skin, and was wearing a all plain t-shirt that I do remember, I believe that he was wearing 'long' shorts, certainly not jeans though.

This person also had a slight left shoulder issue, I think because of it would occasionly pop out though be hard to tell if looking at the person.

Adding: Just got words "East Cannon" don't know if that is helpful or not

Also I am getting a week before her death there was a charity 'drive'..I'm not sure why this is important

Also I forgot to mention something probably very important I should of mentioned much earlier, the male was almost 2x older than the female murderer I'd say early 40s perhaps at that time, guessimate..sorry I didn't say that earlier, just popped into my mind. Last but not least the male killer for a brief period of time lived in Montana.

Edited September 3, 2010 by puridalan

[JonathanVonErich]

In Montana !!?? Very interesting Puri because when Zodiac killed Cecelia Shepard on September 27 1969 he said to her and her boyfriend Bryan Hartnell(who survived the attack) that he was an escaped convict from Deer Lodge, Montana.

[puridalan]

Ya Montana, sorry I don't know anything hardly about serial killers in general..so when I get things I don't often know how to associate them because I have such little knowledge on such things, again feel free to inbox me or anything. But ya he was telling the female killer how he had shortly lived in Montana, again during this time he was in early 40s at latest when this occured. Idk if that charity 'drive' helps either..you'd have to get someone who had axcess to files to look that up and see what that is so important.

[puridalan]

Adding: Important to also note, that when Cheri was stabbed multiple times, I heard no screaming, obviously due to being unconcious via strangalation like I said earlier, but I just remember how I thought it was somewhat odd I heard no screams..now it makes obvious sense because she was knocked unconcious beforehand.

For anyone who wishes to catch up on what I have stated about Bates I made a video: http://www.youtube.com/user/holirealism?feature=mhum

(Most but not all of the info. I have stated is in there)

Edited September 3, 2010 by puridalan

[JonathanVonErich]

I'll ask Tom Voigt about it Pur...if you have more details please share...it's so cool, i talk a lot about this case since 2000 and it's cool to see this discussion about it.

[JonathanVonErich]

Adding: Important to also note, that when Cheri was stabbed multiple times, I heard no screaming, obviously due to being unconcious via strangalation like I said earlier, but I just remember how I thought it was somewhat odd I heard no screams..now it makes obvious sense because she was knocked unconcious beforehand.

We know she had a fight with her killer before dying because the killer lost his/her watch in the fight...great stuff Pur...and thanks for the video.

Edited September 3, 2010 by JonathanVonErich